.223 - 5.56

DeathBeforeDismount · May 31, 2024

Its what I had on hand an it meters really well. Between 24.4 and 24.46 on my FX120i. I am using the double alpha upgraded powder bar but for a dillion powder throw, I cant be mad at those numbers. I am hoping I can hit right around 2809-2830 with this. Should be low enough pressure to not run into issues.

Tonight we will find out if it shoots. These are strickly for PRS practice rounds. Need to save the 109s and barrel life for matches.

Mauser48 · May 31, 2024

Tac shot decent groups for me but not a good SD/ES. Still shot pretty well at 600 yards.

JerkyFreak · Jun 3, 2024

Hornady .224 FMJ-BT 55gr. How bad can it be?

Has anyone used the FMJ-BT 55gr bullets in their bolt guns? I know the store bought ammo gives around >1 MOA. What sort of grouping/precision do you get when fired from a 1:8" twist barrel? What does the grouping look like when proper load development has been done?

I'm trying to figure out if it is worth it to buy.

Snuby642 · Jun 3, 2024

My personal opinion is you are wasting powder, primers and time trying to get 55g Hornady bullets to preform.

Many better choices.

I get them as gifts sometimes.
I will use them to expand some pre conditioned brass I have that is below my shoulder requirements.

jLorenzo · Jun 15, 2024

Best currently available powder choice for 62gr loads in gas guns? Preferably ball to use in a thrower.
Would like to get some accuracy tuned in if possible.

Cr1775 · Jun 15, 2024

SW match rifle? WN 748 maybe hit and miss. You gotta try them all. I have 3 identical AR 15 with 16 inch barrels and with ball powders they all have different preferences. Hope that helps.

jLorenzo · Jun 16, 2024

JerkyFreak said:
Hornady .224 FMJ-BT 55gr. How bad can it be?

Has anyone used the FMJ-BT 55gr bullets in their bolt guns? I know the store bought ammo gives around >1 MOA. What sort of grouping/precision do you get when fired from a 1:8" twist barrel? What does the grouping look like when proper load development has been done?

I'm trying to figure out if it is worth it to buy.

Get 100 and see what you can do. I had a gun with a Bartlien shoot 55gr winchester xm195 really well.

Snuby642 · Jun 16, 2024

jLorenzo said:
Best currently available powder choice for 62gr loads in gas guns? Preferably ball to use in a thrower.
Would like to get some accuracy tuned in if possible.

H335 has produced .5 moa and occasionally 3/8 moa with 52g, and 55g but when I tried 69g bullets groups hovered around 1 moa.

That's in a heavy 20 inch 1/8 t barrel.
Just a reference point.

If it doesn't like the 62g you can use it on the lighter bullets, has been a standard for years that took me a while to realise.

It just doesn't get much hype these days . Meters very well.

TicTacTex · Jun 16, 2024

jLorenzo said:
Best currently available powder choice for 62gr loads in gas guns? Preferably ball to use in a thrower.
Would like to get some accuracy tuned in if possible.

5.56 AR Only Loads

Post your 5.56 AR Loads here Ill Start off 23.6gr 8208XBR 77 SMK 1xLC Brass 205M 2710 20" WOA

www.snipershide.com

TicTacTex · Jun 21, 2024

Reloading Equipment - Lapua 223 Brass 1x Fired - 500 pieces

Just like title says 500 pieces of 1x fired lapua 223 Remington brass available. Fired out of proof prefit 223 Remington barrel 500 pieces for $380 shipped

www.snipershide.com

oldrifleman · Jul 17, 2024

Thinking about a bolt action 26” 223 wylde chamber and Berger 85.5gr hybrids, anyone played with this bullet on a 223?

padom · Jul 17, 2024

oldrifleman said:
Thinking about a bolt action 26” 223 wylde chamber and Berger 85.5gr hybrids, anyone played with this bullet on a 223?

Too heavy IMHO. 85.5 are perfect in 22BR. Can't get enough powder in a 223 case with 85.5

oldrifleman · Jul 17, 2024

padom said:
Too heavy IMHO. 85.5 are perfect in 22BR. Can't get enough powder in a 223 case with 85.5

I wondered about that, thanks does the 80 full bore work?

Rob01 · Jul 17, 2024

75-80 should be about perfect. I run 75 elds in my .223 Wylde chambered bolt gun and they work great.

Mauser48 · Jul 17, 2024

I hear great things about the 80.5 fullbore. 80 smk seem to be working good for me.

oldrifleman · Jul 17, 2024

Cool, I have a spare action ( would need a 223 bolt), trigger, scope, manners stock, will just need to get a barrel. I shoot lots of 223/556 ammo in my ARs so I have brass. Thinking it would be a great lite rifle. Thanks

padom · Jul 17, 2024

75 ELD, 80 ELD, 80 SMK, 80 VLD all shoot excellent in my 223 wylde 26"

tim3gun · Jul 18, 2024

Nosler 85gr RDF's shoot great in my 223 bolt gun. I load them long to fit in a MDT 223 mag

padom · Jul 18, 2024

tim3gun said:
Nosler 85gr RDF's shoot great in my 223 bolt gun. I load them long to fit in a MDT 223 mag

Barrel length?
Speed?
Trued bc?

jLorenzo · Jul 18, 2024

oldrifleman said:
Thinking about a bolt action 26” 223 wylde chamber and Berger 85.5gr hybrids, anyone played with this bullet on a 223?

I have shot a lot of 85.5s. 2900 will be the ragged edge of pressure with Varget, 2850 is realistic with 26+" barrel. Make sure you throat the chamber long enough to get the boat tail above the neck shoulder junction. A chamber for 90gr bullets should be fine. It's a fine bullet and you can shoot it a long way. Still a 223.

padom · Jul 18, 2024

jLorenzo said:
I have shot a lot of 85.5s. 2900 will be the ragged edge of pressure with Varget, 2850 is realistic with 26+" barrel. Make sure you throat the chamber long enough to get the boat tail above the neck shoulder junction. A chamber for 90gr bullets should be fine. It's a fine bullet and you can shoot it a long way. Still a 223.

2900 with a 85.5 in a 223 Wylde chamber with Varget is hot and down in the case.

2900 is max speed in 10+ 223 Wylde barrels of mine with an 80 VLD or 80 SMK or 80 ELD with Varget. More than that and I have pressure signs. Also running into max case capacity issues with no more room for varget in the case at 2900 without compressed loads which is why pressure shows.

Now, with a much longer freebore you could probably get there, but not with a 223 Wylde....

jzerfoss · Jul 18, 2024

padom said:
2900 with a 85.5 in a 223 Wylde chamber with Varget is hot and down in the case.

2900 is max speed in 10+ 223 Wylde barrels of mine with an 80 VLD or 80 SMK or 80 ELD with Varget. More than that and I have pressure signs. Also running into max case capacity issues with no more room for varget in the case at 2900 without compressed loads which is why pressure shows.

Now, with a much longer freebore you could probably get there, but not with a 223 Wylde....

With a Wylde chamber I'd agree but he specifically say "Make sure you throat the chamber long enough to get the boat tail above the neck shoulder junction." If the OP is looking to run only 80gr+ bullets I'd recommend a chamber with the Manson 223 T15 fullbore reamer.

padom · Jul 18, 2024

@oldrifleman asked about 85.5 in a 223 wylde in a 26" bolt.gun that's what I was replying to

jzerfoss · Jul 18, 2024

padom said:
@oldrifleman asked about 85.5 in a 223 wylde in a 26" bolt.gun that's what I was replying to

I was replying to you replying to jLorenzo and recommending a chamber to @oldrifleman

oldrifleman · Jul 18, 2024

Yeah, the barrel is a 26 HV and will have a .080FB. In all honesty not sure what the Wylde FB is. I asked the him for a wylde he asked what bullets and I told him and he put this in( I know stupid).

padom · Jul 18, 2024

oldrifleman said:
Yeah, the barrel is a 26 HV and will have a .080FB. In all honesty not sure what the Wylde FB is. I asked the him for a wylde he asked what bullets and I told him and he put this in( I know stupid).

Nice ! Wylde is 0.62" FB. 0.080 is what my 223 custom match reamer is and it's perfect for 80 smk, and other 80gr pills

jLorenzo · Jul 18, 2024

padom said:
2900 with a 85.5 in a 223 Wylde chamber with Varget is hot and down in the case.

2900 is max speed in 10+ 223 Wylde barrels of mine with an 80 VLD or 80 SMK or 80 ELD with Varget. More than that and I have pressure signs. Also running into max case capacity issues with no more room for varget in the case at 2900 without compressed loads which is why pressure shows.

Now, with a much longer freebore you could probably get there, but not with a 223 Wylde....

Sorry definitely not a wylde shouldve clarified. Think it's .169 freebore.

jLorenzo · Jul 19, 2024

I would also add if you can get the 75gr eld to shoot use that over any 80. Getting that bullet going fast is pretty sweet.

tim3gun · Jul 19, 2024

padom said:
Barrel length?
Speed?
Trued bc?

26" Proof barrel on Impact action
2850 fps
.235 G7 BC

Mauser48 · Aug 27, 2024

New lot of varget gave me a 40-50 fps bump at the same charge weight. 24.5g varget with an 80g smk in a 24" barrel.

oldrifleman · Aug 27, 2024

Interesting

kyotekiller25 · Aug 27, 2024

I shoot the 75g ELDMs at 3000 with 24.7g N540 from a R700 223 Wylde with around an extra .020" FB from a 28" 8 twist bartlein. Shoots 3/4 to 1 MOA out to 1K, prone with a bipod and rear bag easy.

XP1K · Aug 27, 2024

Is N540 roughly the varget equivalent ? I'm about out of varget and my recent experience with Vihtavouri powder in a 300winmag has me wanting to try it in my 223/308, and I'm thinking about adding a 6bra to the mix. One powder for all of them would be nice.

oldrifleman · Aug 27, 2024

I thought N140 was the Varget equivalent.

Niles Coyote · Aug 27, 2024

N140 & N150 are very close to Varget depending on the cartridge its used in. I've had good luck with N150 and 85.5 & 88 grain bullets but you'll likely run out of room if you are looking for max velocity, N140 may be the better fit for speed. I haven't used any of the N5xx series high energy powders.

kyotekiller25 · Aug 28, 2024

N540 is quite a bit slower than varget actually, and it's a high energy double base powder. Like was mentioned, N140/150 are close to Varget.

I've never played with any Vihta powders in my 25 years of handloading until a few months ago. And that's only because for some odd reason, it's been readily available, and cheaper than anything else.

I was going to shoot H4895 in the 223, but you can't find it for years now. I also didn't entertain the idea of Varget, since that's what everyone uses in the 223/6 BR/308s. So that's what led me to N540 after looking at Vihtas data and QL data. It gets me 3050-3075fps at the top end from the 28" Bartlein. But I did drop down to 2975-3000fps just to be safe, since we have triple digit summer's, and be a little easier on the Lapua brass.

Here it is with the new to me S&B PMII 12-50x56 p4f-moa

Ex E6 · Aug 30, 2024

Mauser48 said:
New lot of varget gave me a 40-50 fps bump at the same charge weight. 24.5g varget with an 80g smk in a 24" barrel.

Did you see noticeable accuracy improvement ?.

Mauser48 · Aug 30, 2024

Ex E6 said:
Did you see noticeable accuracy improvement ?.

By the time I got to that box I was just shooting at steel. An moa plate at 500 yards wasn't a problem. Seemed to shoot a good group on steel at 600. Next time I go out I'll try them on paper at 100 and compare to the other loads.

Stephen Bachiler · Sep 2, 2024

Dolomite said:
I’m seated long too 1.980 CBTO.

I seat the 77 SMKs to 1.950 CBTO. According to my novice work with the Hornady tool.. "jam" at ~ 2.035...but other times it reads "jam" at ~1.96-1.99

dcmdon · Sep 13, 2024

Hi all, I'm going to be making up some reloads for a .223 bolt gun (.223 Wylde chamber) I bought used in the marketplace a few months ago.

I just want to get a reality check to make sure I'm not doing anything grossly wrong.
My experience is that I've been reloading pistol for about 20 years on Dillon 550s and 650s.

I've been making .223 on my 650 to AR magazine length using COALs out of reloading manuals for roughly 10 years.
I've reloaded .308 to very high precision but honestly, I seem to have gotten lucky. Ha.

This is my first time making a precision .223 load.

This is where I am and this is my logic. Any and all input is appreciated.

I put a 75 gr A-max in a sized and trimmed case and ran it into the lands.
The round measured 2.429 COAL.
.062" seems to be a freebore that several people in this thread have said they use. So if we subtract .062 we get a COAL of 2.367.

As far as powder, I have Varget and Tac available. I've had great luck with TAC and will make my first loads with this.

Hodgedon's website shows this

So for powder, I figure I'll start out at the 21.7 grain starting load. Although pressures will be lower than normal because my COAL at 2.367 is substantially longer than their COAL of 2.260

As an aside, I've made up some dummy rounds at both the 2.429 and 2.367 COAL and they fed fine from my MDT mag.

I completely understand that optimizing things will involve adjustments to COAL, powder type, and powder quantity. I'm just interested in a starting point that is safe and reasonably accurate.

Thank you in advance for your thoughts.

Don

wind gypsy · Sep 13, 2024

dcmdon said:
Hi all, I'm going to be making up some reloads for a .223 bolt gun (.223 Wylde chamber) I bought used in the marketplace a few months ago.

I just want to get a reality check to make sure I'm not doing anything grossly wrong.
My experience is that I've been reloading pistol for about 20 years on Dillon 550s and 650s.

I've been making .223 on my 650 to AR magazine length using COALs out of reloading manuals for roughly 10 years.
I've reloaded .308 to very high precision but honestly, I seem to have gotten lucky. Ha.

This is my first time making a precision .223 load.

This is where I am and this is my logic. Any and all input is appreciated.

I put a 75 gr A-max in a sized and trimmed case and ran it into the lands.
The round measured 2.429 COAL.
.062" seems to be a freebore that several people in this thread have said they use. So if we subtract .062 we get a COAL of 2.367.

As far as powder, I have Varget and Tac available. I've had great luck with TAC and will make my first loads with this.

Hodgedon's website shows this

View attachment 8500673

So for powder, I figure I'll start out at the 21.7 grain starting load. Although pressures will be lower than normal because my COAL at 2.367 is substantially longer than their COAL of 2.260

As an aside, I've made up some dummy rounds at both the 2.429 and 2.367 COAL and they fed fine from my MDT mag.

I completely understand that optimizing things will involve adjustments to COAL, powder type, and powder quantity. I'm just interested in a starting point that is safe and reasonably accurate.

Thank you in advance for your thoughts.

Don

Freebore and jump to lands are two different things. Freebore is a single dimension of a chamber. Distance to lands is impacted by freebore diameter, freebore length and leade angle.

That load data is probably for a 223 chamber and 223 SAAMI pressure. 223 Wylde will build pressure slower than a 223 rem. Also, 75 amax and 75 bthp aint the same and will build pressure a little differently.

More pointedly - i wouldn't start at 21.7 if you care at all about velocity. I probably wouldn't start any lower than 23.0 but I have a decent feel for the factors and risk involved. Follow the manual if that is what you do to be safe.

oldrifleman · Sep 13, 2024

dcmdon said:
Hi all, I'm going to be making up some reloads for a .223 bolt gun (.223 Wylde chamber) I bought used in the marketplace a few months ago.

I just want to get a reality check to make sure I'm not doing anything grossly wrong.
My experience is that I've been reloading pistol for about 20 years on Dillon 550s and 650s.

I've been making .223 on my 650 to AR magazine length using COALs out of reloading manuals for roughly 10 years.
I've reloaded .308 to very high precision but honestly, I seem to have gotten lucky. Ha.

This is my first time making a precision .223 load.

This is where I am and this is my logic. Any and all input is appreciated.

I put a 75 gr A-max in a sized and trimmed case and ran it into the lands.
The round measured 2.429 COAL.
.062" seems to be a freebore that several people in this thread have said they use. So if we subtract .062 we get a COAL of 2.367.

As far as powder, I have Varget and Tac available. I've had great luck with TAC and will make my first loads with this.

Hodgedon's website shows this

View attachment 8500673

So for powder, I figure I'll start out at the 21.7 grain starting load. Although pressures will be lower than normal because my COAL at 2.367 is substantially longer than their COAL of 2.260

As an aside, I've made up some dummy rounds at both the 2.429 and 2.367 COAL and they fed fine from my MDT mag.

I completely understand that optimizing things will involve adjustments to COAL, powder type, and powder quantity. I'm just interested in a starting point that is safe and reasonably accurate.

Thank you in advance for your thoughts.

Don

Before i start please remember I have been out of the reloading game for 21 years, just getting back into it. I thought that you measured the length of the round that touches the lands and then back off somewhere around .020 (variable based on what the bullet likes to jump). Is this not the way, I did not think you subtracted the Freebore.

max1840 · Sep 13, 2024

If I was concerned with measuring land contact point I wouldn’t be subtracting freebore.

MarshallDodge · Sep 13, 2024

@dcmdon
The 75 Amax is a good bullet. I would figure out where the lands are and come back .010". That has been a good starting point for me when I shot them years ago.

For the powder charge, I would use the 75 GR. JLK VLD data as it more resembles the the 75 Amax.

XP1K · Sep 13, 2024

Do they still make the 75 amax ?

padom · Sep 13, 2024

XP1K said:
Do they still make the 75 amax ?

No 75 ELD is it's replacement

dcmdon · Sep 15, 2024

wind gypsy said:
Freebore and jump to lands are two different things. Freebore is a single dimension of a chamber. Distance to lands is impacted by freebore diameter, freebore length and leade angle.

That load data is probably for a 223 chamber and 223 SAAMI pressure. 223 Wylde will build pressure slower than a 223 rem. Also, 75 amax and 75 bthp aint the same and will build pressure a little differently.

More pointedly - i wouldn't start at 21.7 if you care at all about velocity. I probably wouldn't start any lower than 23.0 but I have a decent feel for the factors and risk involved. Follow the manual if that is what you do to be safe.

You are 100% correct.

I didn't know that the term freebore referenced a chamber dimension. I thought it was another term for "jump" or how far back from the lands the bullet is set.

Because of my ignorance (it's not an insult. Ignorance is curable and I'm on the right path) my rounds had excessive "jump" of .062" rather than something around .010"

The funny thing is that my round is still far longer than SAAMI spec. So with that in mind, I headed off to the range with my out of spec rounds. I didn't realize that I was wrong about freebore vs jump until shortly before I went to the range. So I just ran with what I had.

I was very pleased. Since this is a new to me gun with a new scope and new stock, I started at 50 to sight it in.
This is my first and only 3 shot group at 50

So I moved out to 100 yards and shot one more group. This was the result.

So far so good. So I moved out to 300 yards.

At 300 I switched to 5 shot groups.
My groups at 300 ran from a bit under 2" to 3". All of the 3" groups were the result of a called flyer (or two).

Sorry, no pics, the guys next to me were shooting and I didn't want to ask to have the range go cold so I could just retrieve my targets.

I was very very pleased. This was my first time shooting a barreled action I purchased at the beginning of the summer for a very very good price. As a Left Handed shooter, I don't have many factory options configured how I wanted, and I was putting off buying a custom gun because of the cost. So this is really fantastic. I've got a GRAIL quality gun (Bighorn action, Bartlein barrel) for the cost of a factory gun. I don't normally get this lucky. ha. Christmas in September.

I'm going to disassemble the rest of the rounds I made up with a .62" jump and reload them with more powder and a longer COAL and see how things go next week.

Thank you all for your assistance here. I've been shooting and reloading for years. The more I learn, the more I realize I don't know. Ha.

dcmdon · Sep 15, 2024

max1840 said:
If I was concerned with measuring land contact point I wouldn’t be subtracting freebore.

oldrifleman said:
Before i start please remember I have been out of the reloading game for 21 years, just getting back into it. I thought that you measured the length of the round that touches the lands and then back off somewhere around .020 (variable based on what the bullet likes to jump). Is this not the way, I did not think you subtracted the Freebore.

That was ignorance on my part. See above post. Thank you for the correction.

dcmdon · Sep 15, 2024

MarshallDodge said:
@dcmdon
The 75 Amax is a good bullet. I would figure out where the lands are and come back .010". That has been a good starting point for me when I shot them years ago.

For the powder charge, I would use the 75 GR. JLK VLD data as it more resembles the the 75 Amax.

Thank you.

I was given 800 of these bullets by someone who bought them to use in his AR and then found that they didn't really like to be loaded to AR magazine length.

Based on today's results, I'm going to make some common sense changes to try to wring out some more accuracy. Obviously, this was a starting powder charge. Today's rounds
1. Were too short.
2. Were mixed brass
3. Were loaded on a Dillon 550 using the Dillon powder drop
4) Were loaded with Dillon dies

I'll gather up some same year Lake City brass, size it, trim it, uniform the flash hole and measure each charge for next week and see how it goes.

dcmdon · Sep 15, 2024

Does anyone have recommendations for match dies?

I've used both Redding and Hornady micrometer seating dies and don't really have an opinion on them.

By the way. I'm not crimping. Just using neck tension.

In the past I've spun down the expander ball by a couple of thousandths to provide for more neck tension (that is how my Dillon sizing die is set up).

Is this a good thing to continue, or should I crimp? Ammo will be used in a bolt gun only.

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