.223 - 5.56

#1,151
Its what I had on hand an it meters really well. Between 24.4 and 24.46 on my FX120i. I am using the double alpha upgraded powder bar but for a dillion powder throw, I cant be mad at those numbers. I am hoping I can hit right around 2809-2830 with this. Should be low enough pressure to not run into issues.

Tonight we will find out if it shoots. These are strickly for PRS practice rounds. Need to save the 109s and barrel life for matches.
 
#1,153
Hornady .224 FMJ-BT 55gr. How bad can it be?

Has anyone used the FMJ-BT 55gr bullets in their bolt guns? I know the store bought ammo gives around >1 MOA. What sort of grouping/precision do you get when fired from a 1:8" twist barrel? What does the grouping look like when proper load development has been done?

I'm trying to figure out if it is worth it to buy.
 
#1,154
My personal opinion is you are wasting powder, primers and time trying to get 55g Hornady bullets to preform.

Many better choices.

I get them as gifts sometimes.
I will use them to expand some pre conditioned brass I have that is below my shoulder requirements.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Stephen Bachiler
#1,156
SW match rifle? WN 748 maybe hit and miss. You gotta try them all. I have 3 identical AR 15 with 16 inch barrels and with ball powders they all have different preferences. Hope that helps.
 
  • Like
Reactions: jLorenzo
#1,157
JerkyFreak said:
Hornady .224 FMJ-BT 55gr. How bad can it be?

Has anyone used the FMJ-BT 55gr bullets in their bolt guns? I know the store bought ammo gives around >1 MOA. What sort of grouping/precision do you get when fired from a 1:8" twist barrel? What does the grouping look like when proper load development has been done?

I'm trying to figure out if it is worth it to buy.
Click to expand...
Get 100 and see what you can do. I had a gun with a Bartlien shoot 55gr winchester xm195 really well.
 
#1,158
jLorenzo said:
Best currently available powder choice for 62gr loads in gas guns? Preferably ball to use in a thrower.
Would like to get some accuracy tuned in if possible.
Click to expand...
H335 has produced .5 moa and occasionally 3/8 moa with 52g, and 55g but when I tried 69g bullets groups hovered around 1 moa.

That's in a heavy 20 inch 1/8 t barrel.
Just a reference point.

If it doesn't like the 62g you can use it on the lighter bullets, has been a standard for years that took me a while to realise.

It just doesn't get much hype these days . Meters very well.
 
Last edited:
#1,166
Cool, I have a spare action ( would need a 223 bolt), trigger, scope, manners stock, will just need to get a barrel. I shoot lots of 223/556 ammo in my ARs so I have brass. Thinking it would be a great lite rifle. Thanks
 
#1,170
oldrifleman said:
Thinking about a bolt action 26” 223 wylde chamber and Berger 85.5gr hybrids, anyone played with this bullet on a 223?
Click to expand...
I have shot a lot of 85.5s. 2900 will be the ragged edge of pressure with Varget, 2850 is realistic with 26+" barrel. Make sure you throat the chamber long enough to get the boat tail above the neck shoulder junction. A chamber for 90gr bullets should be fine. It's a fine bullet and you can shoot it a long way. Still a 223.
 
  • Like
Reactions: ford32
#1,171
jLorenzo said:
I have shot a lot of 85.5s. 2900 will be the ragged edge of pressure with Varget, 2850 is realistic with 26+" barrel. Make sure you throat the chamber long enough to get the boat tail above the neck shoulder junction. A chamber for 90gr bullets should be fine. It's a fine bullet and you can shoot it a long way. Still a 223.
Click to expand...

2900 with a 85.5 in a 223 Wylde chamber with Varget is hot and down in the case.

2900 is max speed in 10+ 223 Wylde barrels of mine with an 80 VLD or 80 SMK or 80 ELD with Varget. More than that and I have pressure signs. Also running into max case capacity issues with no more room for varget in the case at 2900 without compressed loads which is why pressure shows.

Now, with a much longer freebore you could probably get there, but not with a 223 Wylde....
 
  • Like
Reactions: Seymour Fish
#1,172
padom said:
2900 with a 85.5 in a 223 Wylde chamber with Varget is hot and down in the case.

2900 is max speed in 10+ 223 Wylde barrels of mine with an 80 VLD or 80 SMK or 80 ELD with Varget. More than that and I have pressure signs. Also running into max case capacity issues with no more room for varget in the case at 2900 without compressed loads which is why pressure shows.

Now, with a much longer freebore you could probably get there, but not with a 223 Wylde....
Click to expand...
With a Wylde chamber I'd agree but he specifically say "Make sure you throat the chamber long enough to get the boat tail above the neck shoulder junction." If the OP is looking to run only 80gr+ bullets I'd recommend a chamber with the Manson 223 T15 fullbore reamer.
 
  • Like
Reactions: jLorenzo
#1,175
Yeah, the barrel is a 26 HV and will have a .080FB. In all honesty not sure what the Wylde FB is. I asked the him for a wylde he asked what bullets and I told him and he put this in( I know stupid).
 
#1,176
oldrifleman said:
Yeah, the barrel is a 26 HV and will have a .080FB. In all honesty not sure what the Wylde FB is. I asked the him for a wylde he asked what bullets and I told him and he put this in( I know stupid).
Click to expand...

Nice ! Wylde is 0.62" FB. 0.080 is what my 223 custom match reamer is and it's perfect for 80 smk, and other 80gr pills
 
  • Like
Reactions: oldrifleman
#1,177
padom said:
2900 with a 85.5 in a 223 Wylde chamber with Varget is hot and down in the case.

2900 is max speed in 10+ 223 Wylde barrels of mine with an 80 VLD or 80 SMK or 80 ELD with Varget. More than that and I have pressure signs. Also running into max case capacity issues with no more room for varget in the case at 2900 without compressed loads which is why pressure shows.

Now, with a much longer freebore you could probably get there, but not with a 223 Wylde....
Click to expand...
Sorry definitely not a wylde shouldve clarified. Think it's .169 freebore.
 
  • Like
Reactions: padom
#1,180
New lot of varget gave me a 40-50 fps bump at the same charge weight. 24.5g varget with an 80g smk in a 24" barrel.
 

Attachments

  • Screenshot_20240825_215229_ShotView.jpg
    Screenshot_20240825_215229_ShotView.jpg
    146.4 KB · Views: 26
  • Like
Reactions: TommyD11730, ranger43 and BuildingConceptsllc
#1,183
Is N540 roughly the varget equivalent ? I'm about out of varget and my recent experience with Vihtavouri powder in a 300winmag has me wanting to try it in my 223/308, and I'm thinking about adding a 6bra to the mix. One powder for all of them would be nice.
 
#1,185
N140 & N150 are very close to Varget depending on the cartridge its used in. I've had good luck with N150 and 85.5 & 88 grain bullets but you'll likely run out of room if you are looking for max velocity, N140 may be the better fit for speed. I haven't used any of the N5xx series high energy powders.
 
Last edited:
  • Like
Reactions: XP1K
#1,186
N540 is quite a bit slower than varget actually, and it's a high energy double base powder. Like was mentioned, N140/150 are close to Varget.

I've never played with any Vihta powders in my 25 years of handloading until a few months ago. And that's only because for some odd reason, it's been readily available, and cheaper than anything else.

I was going to shoot H4895 in the 223, but you can't find it for years now. I also didn't entertain the idea of Varget, since that's what everyone uses in the 223/6 BR/308s. So that's what led me to N540 after looking at Vihtas data and QL data. It gets me 3050-3075fps at the top end from the 28" Bartlein. But I did drop down to 2975-3000fps just to be safe, since we have triple digit summer's, and be a little easier on the Lapua brass.

Here it is with the new to me S&B PMII 12-50x56 p4f-moa
Snapchat-297255461.jpg
 
Last edited:
  • Like
Reactions: MarshallDodge, Mauser48 and XP1K
#1,190
Hi all, I'm going to be making up some reloads for a .223 bolt gun (.223 Wylde chamber) I bought used in the marketplace a few months ago.

I just want to get a reality check to make sure I'm not doing anything grossly wrong.
My experience is that I've been reloading pistol for about 20 years on Dillon 550s and 650s.

I've been making .223 on my 650 to AR magazine length using COALs out of reloading manuals for roughly 10 years.
I've reloaded .308 to very high precision but honestly, I seem to have gotten lucky. Ha.

This is my first time making a precision .223 load.

This is where I am and this is my logic. Any and all input is appreciated.

I put a 75 gr A-max in a sized and trimmed case and ran it into the lands.
The round measured 2.429 COAL.
.062" seems to be a freebore that several people in this thread have said they use. So if we subtract .062 we get a COAL of 2.367.

As far as powder, I have Varget and Tac available. I've had great luck with TAC and will make my first loads with this.

Hodgedon's website shows this

1726238786448.jpeg


So for powder, I figure I'll start out at the 21.7 grain starting load. Although pressures will be lower than normal because my COAL at 2.367 is substantially longer than their COAL of 2.260

As an aside, I've made up some dummy rounds at both the 2.429 and 2.367 COAL and they fed fine from my MDT mag.

I completely understand that optimizing things will involve adjustments to COAL, powder type, and powder quantity. I'm just interested in a starting point that is safe and reasonably accurate.

Thank you in advance for your thoughts.

Don
 
#1,191
dcmdon said:
Hi all, I'm going to be making up some reloads for a .223 bolt gun (.223 Wylde chamber) I bought used in the marketplace a few months ago.

I just want to get a reality check to make sure I'm not doing anything grossly wrong.
My experience is that I've been reloading pistol for about 20 years on Dillon 550s and 650s.

I've been making .223 on my 650 to AR magazine length using COALs out of reloading manuals for roughly 10 years.
I've reloaded .308 to very high precision but honestly, I seem to have gotten lucky. Ha.

This is my first time making a precision .223 load.

This is where I am and this is my logic. Any and all input is appreciated.

I put a 75 gr A-max in a sized and trimmed case and ran it into the lands.
The round measured 2.429 COAL.
.062" seems to be a freebore that several people in this thread have said they use. So if we subtract .062 we get a COAL of 2.367.

As far as powder, I have Varget and Tac available. I've had great luck with TAC and will make my first loads with this.

Hodgedon's website shows this

View attachment 8500673

So for powder, I figure I'll start out at the 21.7 grain starting load. Although pressures will be lower than normal because my COAL at 2.367 is substantially longer than their COAL of 2.260

As an aside, I've made up some dummy rounds at both the 2.429 and 2.367 COAL and they fed fine from my MDT mag.

I completely understand that optimizing things will involve adjustments to COAL, powder type, and powder quantity. I'm just interested in a starting point that is safe and reasonably accurate.

Thank you in advance for your thoughts.

Don
Click to expand...

Freebore and jump to lands are two different things. Freebore is a single dimension of a chamber. Distance to lands is impacted by freebore diameter, freebore length and leade angle.

That load data is probably for a 223 chamber and 223 SAAMI pressure. 223 Wylde will build pressure slower than a 223 rem. Also, 75 amax and 75 bthp aint the same and will build pressure a little differently.

More pointedly - i wouldn't start at 21.7 if you care at all about velocity. I probably wouldn't start any lower than 23.0 but I have a decent feel for the factors and risk involved. Follow the manual if that is what you do to be safe.
 
  • Like
Reactions: MarshallDodge
#1,192
dcmdon said:
Hi all, I'm going to be making up some reloads for a .223 bolt gun (.223 Wylde chamber) I bought used in the marketplace a few months ago.

I just want to get a reality check to make sure I'm not doing anything grossly wrong.
My experience is that I've been reloading pistol for about 20 years on Dillon 550s and 650s.

I've been making .223 on my 650 to AR magazine length using COALs out of reloading manuals for roughly 10 years.
I've reloaded .308 to very high precision but honestly, I seem to have gotten lucky. Ha.

This is my first time making a precision .223 load.

This is where I am and this is my logic. Any and all input is appreciated.

I put a 75 gr A-max in a sized and trimmed case and ran it into the lands.
The round measured 2.429 COAL.
.062" seems to be a freebore that several people in this thread have said they use. So if we subtract .062 we get a COAL of 2.367.

As far as powder, I have Varget and Tac available. I've had great luck with TAC and will make my first loads with this.

Hodgedon's website shows this

View attachment 8500673

So for powder, I figure I'll start out at the 21.7 grain starting load. Although pressures will be lower than normal because my COAL at 2.367 is substantially longer than their COAL of 2.260

As an aside, I've made up some dummy rounds at both the 2.429 and 2.367 COAL and they fed fine from my MDT mag.

I completely understand that optimizing things will involve adjustments to COAL, powder type, and powder quantity. I'm just interested in a starting point that is safe and reasonably accurate.

Thank you in advance for your thoughts.

Don
Click to expand...
Before i start please remember I have been out of the reloading game for 21 years, just getting back into it. I thought that you measured the length of the round that touches the lands and then back off somewhere around .020 (variable based on what the bullet likes to jump). Is this not the way, I did not think you subtracted the Freebore.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Snuby642
#1,194
@dcmdon
The 75 Amax is a good bullet. I would figure out where the lands are and come back .010". That has been a good starting point for me when I shot them years ago.

For the powder charge, I would use the 75 GR. JLK VLD data as it more resembles the the 75 Amax.
 
  • Like
Reactions: oldrifleman
#1,197
wind gypsy said:
Freebore and jump to lands are two different things. Freebore is a single dimension of a chamber. Distance to lands is impacted by freebore diameter, freebore length and leade angle.

That load data is probably for a 223 chamber and 223 SAAMI pressure. 223 Wylde will build pressure slower than a 223 rem. Also, 75 amax and 75 bthp aint the same and will build pressure a little differently.

More pointedly - i wouldn't start at 21.7 if you care at all about velocity. I probably wouldn't start any lower than 23.0 but I have a decent feel for the factors and risk involved. Follow the manual if that is what you do to be safe.
Click to expand...
You are 100% correct.

I didn't know that the term freebore referenced a chamber dimension. I thought it was another term for "jump" or how far back from the lands the bullet is set.

Because of my ignorance (it's not an insult. Ignorance is curable and I'm on the right path) my rounds had excessive "jump" of .062" rather than something around .010"

The funny thing is that my round is still far longer than SAAMI spec. So with that in mind, I headed off to the range with my out of spec rounds. I didn't realize that I was wrong about freebore vs jump until shortly before I went to the range. So I just ran with what I had.

I was very pleased. Since this is a new to me gun with a new scope and new stock, I started at 50 to sight it in.
This is my first and only 3 shot group at 50

1726420859825.jpeg


So I moved out to 100 yards and shot one more group. This was the result.

1726420937778.jpeg


So far so good. So I moved out to 300 yards.

At 300 I switched to 5 shot groups.
My groups at 300 ran from a bit under 2" to 3". All of the 3" groups were the result of a called flyer (or two).

Sorry, no pics, the guys next to me were shooting and I didn't want to ask to have the range go cold so I could just retrieve my targets.

I was very very pleased. This was my first time shooting a barreled action I purchased at the beginning of the summer for a very very good price. As a Left Handed shooter, I don't have many factory options configured how I wanted, and I was putting off buying a custom gun because of the cost. So this is really fantastic. I've got a GRAIL quality gun (Bighorn action, Bartlein barrel) for the cost of a factory gun. I don't normally get this lucky. ha. Christmas in September.

I'm going to disassemble the rest of the rounds I made up with a .62" jump and reload them with more powder and a longer COAL and see how things go next week.

Thank you all for your assistance here. I've been shooting and reloading for years. The more I learn, the more I realize I don't know. Ha.
 
Last edited:
  • Like
Reactions: Tx_Aggie
#1,198
max1840 said:
If I was concerned with measuring land contact point I wouldn’t be subtracting freebore.
Click to expand...


oldrifleman said:
Before i start please remember I have been out of the reloading game for 21 years, just getting back into it. I thought that you measured the length of the round that touches the lands and then back off somewhere around .020 (variable based on what the bullet likes to jump). Is this not the way, I did not think you subtracted the Freebore.
Click to expand...

That was ignorance on my part. See above post. Thank you for the correction.
 
  • Like
Reactions: oldrifleman and max1840
#1,199
MarshallDodge said:
@dcmdon
The 75 Amax is a good bullet. I would figure out where the lands are and come back .010". That has been a good starting point for me when I shot them years ago.

For the powder charge, I would use the 75 GR. JLK VLD data as it more resembles the the 75 Amax.
Click to expand...

Thank you.

I was given 800 of these bullets by someone who bought them to use in his AR and then found that they didn't really like to be loaded to AR magazine length.

Based on today's results, I'm going to make some common sense changes to try to wring out some more accuracy. Obviously, this was a starting powder charge. Today's rounds
1. Were too short.
2. Were mixed brass
3. Were loaded on a Dillon 550 using the Dillon powder drop
4) Were loaded with Dillon dies

I'll gather up some same year Lake City brass, size it, trim it, uniform the flash hole and measure each charge for next week and see how it goes.
 
  • Like
Reactions: MarshallDodge
#1,200
Does anyone have recommendations for match dies?

I've used both Redding and Hornady micrometer seating dies and don't really have an opinion on them.

By the way. I'm not crimping. Just using neck tension.

In the past I've spun down the expander ball by a couple of thousandths to provide for more neck tension (that is how my Dillon sizing die is set up).

Is this a good thing to continue, or should I crimp? Ammo will be used in a bolt gun only.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.

Similar threads

Black Greyhound
.223/5.56 cases to fireform to .223 AI?
Replies
3
Views
105
Aftermath
Aftermath
simonp
SD's in .223 /5.56
Replies
48
Views
1K
Doc68
Doc68
A
Can Surefire RC2 suppress 6mm Max?
Replies
7
Views
326
AJBI
A
P
Reloading NAS3 5.56 cases
Replies
4
Views
386
Jdowns0415
J
MAHLMAN
Duplicate FPS from 24" barrel with a 16" Barrel
Replies
6
Views
227
MAHLMAN
MAHLMAN
Top Bottom
Back
Home
Forums
Merch
Alerts