Appreciate this also. Currently have a Nx8 that I like, but was thinking of giving the Mark4/5 a try for an Sig Cross. Just seems kind of like a roll of the dice on Leupold. Glad to see someone testing them and potentially taking one on a hunt where it matters.
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Rifle Scopes Leupold Mark 4HD
- Thread starter ChrisAU
- Start date
So since everyone is talking FOV here’s phone pics between a Mark4hd 4.5-18 and a Gen 3 Razor. Both scopes on 15x(the MK4 I got as close as I could since it’s 14x then 18x.
First pic is the Gen 3
Next MK4
Fence is 684yds
First pic is the Gen 3
Next MK4
Fence is 684yds
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we’re talking 6 fence post vs 5.5 at 680
So there's less FOV on the image from the mk4. But it's also zoomed in more so that's to be expected. Is there a numbered zoom that both have in common and you could try?
I could have fat fingered something, but below is a chart comparing approximated FoV throughout the magnification range.
One update from my NX8 vs MK4 comparison is that out here at high noon in bright light, the MK4 exhibits significantly more purple fringing than the NX8. In bright light, I am preferring the NX8 which was not the case early this morning just after dawn where the MK4 was the brighter and cleaner optic in the lower light conditions.
Wow, this is very interesting. Even though they are both at the same zoom magnification, the mk4 has a closer appearing image as if it's zoomed much more.
I've always thought that was the case with optics. One brand's 10x will not be another's. So at the end, when trying to compare FOV specs or magnification, it's hard because there probably isn't something concrete across all scopes.
Thanks for posting up.
Did anyone ever miss a target because of FOV?
Asking for my snarky friend.
-Stan
Asking for my snarky friend.
-Stan
Unless your dialing is extremely off it really doesn’t make a difference. I think it comes down to people competing and want to keep targets in view.
Thank you.
FOV and Tunneling are two gripes I routinely see on this forum that I have yet to see to translate into a tragedy.
-Stan
I think that when people pay the type of money they’re asking for some of these scopes there’s expectations. I get it you want to make sure that your investment is worth it. I agree with you FOV and tunneling (at the lowest magnification) is irrelevant for me and the type of shooting I do.
After seeing this pic of yours, I feel like those of us who get scopes with turrets that don't line up shouldn't have to ask, but be able to demand Leupold correct it or send us new units that are defect-free.
I'm no expert in tort law, but if they are charging a certain price for a product, and we can prove that others are getting ones that are made correctly and as expected and advertised, they're legally obligated to correct the ones that aren't (known as being defective), no?
Their scopes come in vacuum-sealed boxes and there's no way to see if the unit one is purchasing is legit or not until it's opened... so the only way to "be made whole" is to have them correct it after the fact, no?
You can add this to your class action lawsuit. Just noticed it today while at the range.
My zero is centered nicely. By the time I dial from 2 to 4 mils the hash is off center. When I get to 5 mils back to zero (10 mil) the hashes are back to center again.
Designed, machined, and assembled in Oregon….
Attachments
That sucks.
TBH IDK shit about whether they're responsible or liable in any way, I'm just talking shit.
But it's lame as hell! They're supposed to be "precision" rifle scopes for Christ's sake lol... and not being able to dial them correctly isn't very precise, it's the exact opposite of precision, which basically means they're broken.
For those with the turret hashes not lining up, I'm wondering how do they track? Is it cosmetic or is there an actual error in the adjustment? I was looking at the 4.5-18 but starting to second guess it.
I haven't done a formal tracking test (I probably need to) but I've been getting hits out to 1000-1250 yards, impacts landing where intended, without anything looking wonky. The last couple of times I've been out the conditions were pretty calm (1-5mph avg for wind) and I'd like to think if something was up I would have noticed... but yeah, I'm going to hang a target tomorrow or next time I'm out and see what I get...
No tracking issues for me so it’s purely cosmetic. In all honesty it doesn’t bother me that much since I dial slow and not in a competition setting so I know where am at. But yea, it’s kinda gay.
Took the plunge today for my Sig Cross. Really liked the dimensions on the MK5 3-18 but after reading quite a few posts saying the 4.5-18 would be easier to get behind I ordered one with the PR-1 Mil. Having illumination is nice compared to the up charge on the MK5.
Will be directly comparing this to my Mil-C 4-32 NX8 and 3-18 Tenmile.
Will be directly comparing this to my Mil-C 4-32 NX8 and 3-18 Tenmile.
Yes, the numbers line up as I dial up.
It's not perfect, 9.9-0/10 is a little wonky because of how the turret tape came trimmed, but it's 100x better than it was as far as being able to dial and see where I'm at and not being off by a tenth. I probably could have trimmed it at 9.9 and it might have come out a little better (IDTS sends 3 turret tapes, so maybe I'll go full-on OCD on the next one lol).
Hilariously (or sadly, depending on how one looks at it), according to Leupold "Every CDS model scope is eligible for one free custom dial."... so for my custom dial, I might see if I can just order one that actually lines up correctly, in my case pushing 0.0 over a little bit to ~ 9.965ish mils..?
www.leupold.com
It's not perfect, 9.9-0/10 is a little wonky because of how the turret tape came trimmed, but it's 100x better than it was as far as being able to dial and see where I'm at and not being off by a tenth. I probably could have trimmed it at 9.9 and it might have come out a little better (IDTS sends 3 turret tapes, so maybe I'll go full-on OCD on the next one lol).
Hilariously (or sadly, depending on how one looks at it), according to Leupold "Every CDS model scope is eligible for one free custom dial."... so for my custom dial, I might see if I can just order one that actually lines up correctly, in my case pushing 0.0 over a little bit to ~ 9.965ish mils..?
CDS BALLISTIC DIALS
Leupold’s Custom Dial System® (CDS®) helps you easily compensate for bullet drop and make ultra-quick adjustments on the fly. We’ll customize your scope’s elevation dial to match your exact load, muzzle velocity, and environmental conditions for unprecedented precision. Every CDS model scope...
www.leupold.com
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Worth a try!Yes, the numbers line up as I dial up.
It's not perfect, 9.8-9.9 is a little wonky because of how the turret tape came trimmed, but it's 100x better than it was as far as being able to dial and see where I'm at. I probably could have trimmed it at 9.8 and it might have come out a little better (IDTS sends 3 turret tapes, so maybe I'll go full-on OCD on the next one lol).
Hilariously (or sadly, depending on how one looks at it), according to Leupold "Every CDS model scope is eligible for one free custom dial."... so for my custom dial, I might see if I can just order one that actually lines up correctly, in my case pushing 0.0 over a little bit to ~ 9.965ish mils..?
CDS BALLISTIC DIALS
Leupold’s Custom Dial System® (CDS®) helps you easily compensate for bullet drop and make ultra-quick adjustments on the fly. We’ll customize your scope’s elevation dial to match your exact load, muzzle velocity, and environmental conditions for unprecedented precision. Every CDS model scope...
So... shot the thing today in a casual local match out to 1250 yards and noticed that due to its turret play/slop, mine does indeed start to get out of whack by a tenth or so somewhere between 5.0mils and 8.1mils (my current DOPE for 750 and 1000 yards, respectively). Trying to figure out if I was on 8.0 or 8.1mils was super frustrating (even with the aftermarket turret tape).
It's annoying enough that it probably warrants sending it in... but IDK if it's even worth the trouble since I fear the dreaded "it's within our tolerances" response and getting it back without it having been repaired, in the same condition as it left...
It's annoying enough that it probably warrants sending it in... but IDK if it's even worth the trouble since I fear the dreaded "it's within our tolerances" response and getting it back without it having been repaired, in the same condition as it left...
You would think if it’s getting off a tenth they would fix it. Did you try ordering a new turret with cds cert?So... shot the thing today in a casual local match out to 1250 yards and noticed that due to its turret play/slop, mine does indeed start to get out of whack by a tenth or so somewhere between 5.0mils and 8.1mils (my current DOPE for 750 and 1000 yards, respectively). Trying to figure out if I was on 8.0 or 8.1mils was super frustrating (even with the aftermarket turret tape).
It's annoying enough that it probably warrants sending it in... but IDK if it's even worth the trouble since I fear the dreaded "it's within our tolerances" response and getting it back without it having been repaired, in the same condition as it left...
You need to return it. And so does everybody else. And request they take accountability for the fuck up and fix it. If everybody sends them in, it's gonna be hard for them to reject them because they'll realize it's too many people this happened to. If they still reject them, well then, they'll probably lose a bunch of customers and we'll never buy leupole again.So... shot the thing today in a casual local match out to 1250 yards and noticed that due to its turret play/slop, mine does indeed start to get out of whack by a tenth or so somewhere between 5.0mils and 8.1mils (my current DOPE for 750 and 1000 yards, respectively). Trying to figure out if I was on 8.0 or 8.1mils was super frustrating (even with the aftermarket turret tape).
It's annoying enough that it probably warrants sending it in... but IDK if it's even worth the trouble since I fear the dreaded "it's within our tolerances" response and getting it back without it having been repaired, in the same condition as it left...
I was talking to a buddy yesterday and he was describing the same thing with one. At 7mil it got off .1. Dial 7.0 you get 7.0, dial 7.1 you get 7.0, dial 7.2 you get 7.1 and the error stays consistent from there.
A lot of scopes don’t dial 100% throughout the range and as long as it’s consistent an error of .1 isn’t that big of a deal. If you want totally flawless tracking then go spend $5K on a TT.
A lot of scopes don’t dial 100% throughout the range and as long as it’s consistent an error of .1 isn’t that big of a deal. If you want totally flawless tracking then go spend $5K on a TT.
I don't agree with this.
TBH IDK how many guys even have the range to even find out if their scopes are off when just shooting casually... and unless they buy a tracking-test target and hang it at 100 yards with a level, they really can't even check. I don't have that problem and am maybe a little spoiled since my club goes out to 1250 yards with known distance targets at 100, 200, 300, 500, 600, 750, 1000, and 1250, so I can honestly see it, and verify it (and until now, have never had a reason to mess with a tracking-test target).
My first scope that went past 6x magnification was a ~$300 Vortex Diamondback 6-24x50, and while its turrets weren't great, it worked fine, if you dialed 8.0mils, the cap/turret lined up at 8.0mils, and you got 8.0mils downrange.
Same with my next long-range scope: a $350 Arken SH-4, cap/turret lined up, tracked fine.
My next scope was a Razor Gen2... and since then I've had/tried a Kahles, a NF ATACR, and a couple of other Razors (Gen2 and Gen3), and with all of them (while some had more play/slop than others), all the caps/turrets lined up, and they all tracked well enough to have never given me a reason to bother hanging a tracking-test target when verified by walking them out to 1250 yards.
This Leupold is the first scope that has me questioning WTF is going on..? And TBH it's the fact that the cap/turret doesn't line up and "gets out of whack" as much as it is me questioning its tracking. This is actually my second one, my first one had a gritty parallax knob and really weak turret clicks but at least its cap/turrets lined up better (I didn't have it long enough to see if it got out of whack when dialing). The one I have now is my second unit, and its parallax knob feels better and its clicks are more pronounced (still pussy as fuck when compared to a Razor G3's), but its cap/turret doesn't line up and it gets progressively more off and out of whack as more elevation is dialed. In a match setting it seemed to be at least a tenth or two off by 8.0mils/1000 yards and none of us has time to count 80 clicks when we're engaging 10 or more targets at various distances in 90 seconds.
IMO, from the scopes I've bought and the several Mark5HDs I've played with, Leupold's QC and craftmanship sucks, full stop (and there are maybe too many Leupold fanboys/apologists out there who give them a pass).
I know the Mark4HD isn't their flagship model, but its build quality should be at least as good as a ~$300 scope.
As a collective knowledge base, this forum is known far and wide, and if this was a Vortex thread one of their reps would have already chimed in by now in an attempt to make things right... so I find it impossible to believe that no one associated with Leupold has heard of these complaints by now, and the fact that they haven't said anything speaks volumes, truthfully, their silence is deafening.
I'm going to email them and send it in to be made right... and if they blow me off and/or don't make it right my working plan is to take it out of their ass by flaming them every chance I get on the internet and at every single match at K&M and within driving distance of TN (and some I might fly to) as often as I possibly can for the rest of time.
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Then sell the thing and tell everyone how much you hate them at any given opportunity.
The reality is 1% or less error is considered good and a reasonable person doesn’t expect absolutely perfection in $1K optics.
The reality is 1% or less error is considered good and a reasonable person doesn’t expect absolutely perfection in $1K optics.
I'm not going to sell someone a fucked up scope. I'm going to send it back and see what happens (and recommend everyone else having issues do the same).
And I'm not expecting perfection, I'm expecting at least as good as a ~$300/350 Vortex/Arken.
If they repair it and make things right I'll "shout it from the hills" on here and everywhere else, if not... oh well.
I guarantee if you put your cheap vortex and Arken on a tracking target they would show some error too. My money would be on more than the MK4.
Well, pause, I'm going to have call them this week sometime before I ship it...
I didn't realize they expect us to pay for shipping for their defective products..? In 2024, that's crazy!
They either need to provide a shipping label at no cost or agree to reimburse me/us... there's no way I'm paying the shipping expenses when it going back is a direct result of their poor quality control.
It's bad enough that I/we have to go through the trouble of unmounting them to send them off and then remounting the scopes, not to mention burning rounds to re-zero and check them after they come back... my/our time and my/our ammo isn't free, trying to get us to pay shipping due to a defect is downright insulting.
I didn't realize they expect us to pay for shipping for their defective products..? In 2024, that's crazy!
They either need to provide a shipping label at no cost or agree to reimburse me/us... there's no way I'm paying the shipping expenses when it going back is a direct result of their poor quality control.
It's bad enough that I/we have to go through the trouble of unmounting them to send them off and then remounting the scopes, not to mention burning rounds to re-zero and check them after they come back... my/our time and my/our ammo isn't free, trying to get us to pay shipping due to a defect is downright insulting.
I no longer own any cheap Vortex or Arken scopes, but I also don't shit on the guys who have them when starting out either... cheap glass serves its purpose as it gets guys into the sport and is a gateway drug to nicer glass.
You do know you sound like an apologist right? Do you work for Leupold or something?
You’re a fag. Congrats on being the newest member to my ignore list.
- The guy who just replaced a MK4HD with a Chinese Athlon
I don't care. No one cares about you.
Fuck off dork lol.
I had tracking problems with the windage on mine and I chased it down to the mount I was using/torque settings.
I looked at that and don't think ring/mount torque is it in my case, as I'm following Leupold's instructions to the letter and am actually below the max torque specs for my mount (MPA BA mount, max for the rings is 20in-lb, I'm running ~18in-lb), and it's worth mentioning that I've used the same exact mount with 3-4 other scopes without any issues.
TBH I hate being "that guy" on a forum complaining about a piece of gear and I try to avoid being an early adopter almost every chance I can. But with all the hype and love Leupold gets shown and them being one of the major players for so long, I hadn't even considered that they'd just send out half-ass shit.
I'm done ranting for now and am going to see what they say about it this week..?
I do think it's ridiculous that they shrink-wrap their scopes in plastic, preventing us from checking each unit we get while it's still "new" so we can return it if there's a problem, and yet, at the same time, expect their customers to pay for shipping when a problem is found... it doesn't seem right.
Though my 6-24 does not have the turret issue, I have decided to go ahead and list it up for sale. The scope continues to outperform my 4-32 NX8 in low light, although it does display a bit more CA in bright sunlight than the NF does. The size and weight are good to go. I found myself wishing for a thicker reticle (mine has the PR2) for a hunting scope. Even thought the NF MIL-XT reticle is thicker, its also a bit hard to find at the bottom end of the range.
I can't believe I did this, but considering my use case was elk hunting, I decided to order a SECOND FOCAL 2.5-20 NX8 with the MIL-C reticle. My thoughts were I am going to be dialing 100% of the time and I would like a nice wide FOV with a clearly visible reticle in all conditions and mag ranges. It arrived yesterday and absolutely this was the right decision for my plans with the optic which will only ride on a 7 PRC hunting rifle.
I do think the MK4HD punches above its weight for the price. I also think Leupold needs to step up and fix the turrets for those of you that have had issues.
Edit: I forgot to mention....my NF 2.5-20 turret does NOT line up perfecty.
I can't believe I did this, but considering my use case was elk hunting, I decided to order a SECOND FOCAL 2.5-20 NX8 with the MIL-C reticle. My thoughts were I am going to be dialing 100% of the time and I would like a nice wide FOV with a clearly visible reticle in all conditions and mag ranges. It arrived yesterday and absolutely this was the right decision for my plans with the optic which will only ride on a 7 PRC hunting rifle.
I do think the MK4HD punches above its weight for the price. I also think Leupold needs to step up and fix the turrets for those of you that have had issues.
Edit: I forgot to mention....my NF 2.5-20 turret does NOT line up perfecty.
Just got a Mark 4 in from EO and it has the turret issue. Pretty much off after you leave the zero. Going ahead and sending it back to EO, and the search continues for the next scope.
FWIW, I spoke to Leupold and conveyed my point that I think it's ridiculous for us customers to have to pay shipping and shipping insurance on brand-new scopes that came out of the box with defects to get them made right. The rep said they'd cover the shipping expenses since the Mark4HDs are a newly released model... and a prepaid shipping label arrived in my inbox a few minutes later.
Now I just hope they fix it or send me a new one that is 100%.
Now I just hope they fix it or send me a new one that is 100%.
Can you elaborate on what "as good as a ~$300/350 Vortex/Arken" means?
Is there some objective standard you are considering to be a benchmark characteristic that these scopes have over the MK4HD? And not "feel" better or track right.... Like do you know the error associated with them (because every scope has error, whether or not you pick up on it or not is another story) or do you know how much torque and tactile feedback per click one should feel so you don't wet your pants?
You're not the first person to complain, and won't be the last - but you sound like a cry baby honestly. Try bringing some objective facts to the table so this forum doesn't turn into a cult like RockSlide
I think prior in this thread it was mentioned that the Arkens and Athlons do not have any turret issues and that if those $300 scopes can get it right, so should a prestigious scope maker making $1000+ scopes.
Absolutely. They never even found the target in time because their FOV was too small.
It's not exactly unheard of for the tick marks on the turret covers to not quite line up all the way around.
A $1600 scope should be at least as good as a $300 scope as far as build quality and shit lining up, period.
IDK why you think I or anyone else cares if you think I’m being a crybaby, you’re free to ignore me and go back to eating dicks.
At zero or does it get off as you rotate? I thought that had set screws to reset the dial.….
Edit: I forgot to mention....my NF 2.5-20 turret does NOT line up perfecty.
They is a pronoun that refers to people in general.
Do you think no one ever missed a target because they couldn't find it in their scope?
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