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So over the Contrived and Repetitive Nature of Stages today
- Thread starter Lowlight
- Start date
I haven’t had any bad experiences with Jersey folks. Though, most of my Jersey boi interactions have been with MDT, MPA, SAC or other service member Jersey bois. My experience though.
Myself as I’m now “not a new shooter” try my best to help newer shooters, problem solve/diagnose their issues. I don’t find value in watching newer shooters on the struggle bus since I like seeing others in this sport succeed. Whether it’s local or not.
Myself as I’m now “not a new shooter” try my best to help newer shooters, problem solve/diagnose their issues. I don’t find value in watching newer shooters on the struggle bus since I like seeing others in this sport succeed. Whether it’s local or not.
I think the new generation of "pro" shooters are mostly really stand-up guys and gals.
The old days of PRS were much more wild west. At least from what I saw.
Gotcha! Yeah, started shooting in 2021 so well after the OG days.
I started shooting PRS around 2013 I think.
I haven't met Robert Brantley, but I've heard nothing but great things. My comments are not in regards to anyone on Team GAP today (I have no idea who that would be, or even if they have a team), but rather the former team from many years ago. And it wasn't isolated to Team GAP, unfortunately more often than not, jersey shooters were more likely to be assholes than not back in those days. That's just the way it was.
As I stated previously, the new crop of "pro" shooters have been pretty excellent in my limited experience. Of course there will be some assholes here and there, as there is in anything, but the culture among current PRS "pros" is much better than it once was. At least from what I've seen and experienced.
Blaming the PRS isn’t the answer….
Aren’t they making the majority of the money and don’t they run the league ? Seems like an odd comment
You act like I don’t still hit matches, you act like guys don’t train on my range or I have access to Way who hits everything and wins steel. Pathetic
PRS people defending the PRS is nothing new it’s team sports my side is better just what you are doing ?
What’s different in matches today give 3 changes I wouldn’t recognize?
PRS main issues are self-spotting and the open-development rules on rifles.
Those are basically self-limiting to long term growth. The obvious way to work around those limitations are to have options for live spooter/shooter feedback and some kind of limited-development class.
The main problem here is operational. Its not easy to integrate those changes with MDs/sponsors.
Those are basically self-limiting to long term growth. The obvious way to work around those limitations are to have options for live spooter/shooter feedback and some kind of limited-development class.
The main problem here is operational. Its not easy to integrate those changes with MDs/sponsors.
Really as long as everyone can or cannot reload that is an issue too
There should be a promoted simplified factory ammo division that really would help new people and push manufacturing to better QC for match ammo
If you show them they have a 25fps+ SD and you stop recommending that brand, stuff would change for the better
There are ways to leverage the system to improve things across the board for everyone.
It’s not saying it’s all bad, it’s saying after all this time why are obvious improvements not made ? The cliques is why
There should be a promoted simplified factory ammo division that really would help new people and push manufacturing to better QC for match ammo
If you show them they have a 25fps+ SD and you stop recommending that brand, stuff would change for the better
There are ways to leverage the system to improve things across the board for everyone.
It’s not saying it’s all bad, it’s saying after all this time why are obvious improvements not made ? The cliques is why
Brantley is probably one of the kindest and most genuine people I've ever met.
IMO the size of something like (centerfire) PRS is always going to be self limiting simply because of the expense of competing, even at a casual level, and because of the limited number of venues that are suitable for hosting a 1000+ yard rifle match with 10-20 individual stages.
NRL22, NRL22X, and PRS rimfire have a much higher potential for growth in participation, and as it turns out that's where a lot of the growth is. Both from new participants and from established shooters who've become tired of how expensive the centerfire stuff can be.
I think NRL22 has worked to address a lot of the equipment side of things already (with production division rules that make some sense), and the series makes a considerable effort to be as beginner friendly as possible.
This is where they should have adjusted, which during the COVID break would have been perfect. You could have simplified and adjusted the Open vs everything to balance the field and trim the fat.
Brought off the shelf rifles into play better, put some practical limits on things, and since NRL centerfire was gone, they could have reevaluated the ranges to spread them out and trim the ones not suited for growth. Many are there just because of who they knew, not because they offered something better.
An overall MD summit could have been held to adjust for regional differences to give all sides a fair bite of the pie. Stages could be discussed, standardized rules for running a match vs that being up to the MD in theory and as a scapegoat in practice. They missed a golden opportunity
But yes, the small stuff is the future, average range in the US - state to state 200 yards, good for .22 not so much 65
So here you've made the PRS to be the victim of non competitive shooters who are just a bunch of pussies......
And here the PRS is not at fault for not managing a Series that they take the money for managing......
And here we get a little light to shine for transparency......
Bottom line, the PRS takes in a lot of competitors money as well as sponsorship money in the name of growing the sport. Why are the PRS minions so averse to a little constructive criticism?
If the PRS is taking in money from me and supposedly for my benefit (from Sponsors), why wouldn't I have the right to ask what I'm getting for my dollars?
Unfortunately it's not that we're a bunch of sniveling pussies, it's that we are mature men who don't need to have a dick measuring contest over every little thing that we do. MOST of the gun owners love the opportunity to go shoot and enjoy ourselves and just want to maximize both the opportunity and the fun. We don't care if we place last, as long as it's an enjoyable endeavor.
In all fairness, the term PRS is applied to any long range precision match whether it is a field match, outlaw, etc. In that aspect it will get broad brushed with any criticism that is give to other leagues as well. The PRS should take advantage of the opportunity to influence and lead the long range sector of shooting sports before somebody else does.
The precision rifle craze is real and the vast number of these rifles are never put to use in a PRS competition, why is that?
Things can be a little confusing within the shooting sports, because some long established organizations are non-profits (like USPSA) and exist (at least ostensibly) for the good of the discipline they govern, while others, like the Precision Rifle Series, are for-profit companies that exist solely to make money for those who own them.
So I find the continued assertion that the PRS is somehow evil for making a money for the folks who own to be patently ridiculous, and maybe a little deceptive, even if unintentionally. More power to them, I say. Doesn't bother me one bit, as long as they keep up their end deal, which from what I can tell is simply to provide score keeping, rankings, a rule set for matches run within their series, etc..
It also doesn't bother me that Frank makes money off of this website and all of the information and community it provides for the people who choose to visit. Good on him for all of the time and effort he's invested, and I hope it's made him a wealthy man.
But as far as I'm aware, "the PRS" is only obligated to "grow the sport" to the extent that it is profitable for the organization. The same is true of providing free educational materials, choosing to advertise (or not) some place or another online, promoting certain instructors, etc.
This is the reason that you see so many people talking about supporting the MDs and ranges who make the matches happen. The bulk of our match fees go to the MD/range, while the money that is actually spent with PRS (membership and their cut of entries) is a drop in the bucket of what most shooters spend in a year. If the PRS disappeared tomorrow (or was replaced by a non-profit) there would still be precision rifle matches. But if your local MD quits or the range that hosts your local match closes, you might just be SOL.
As for dick measuring contests...have you read the thread?
Time for me to step into this.
First thing, I do not compete in PRS or any other sanctioned shooting.
One point, made very clearly by Frank, very early in this thread was MDs and ROs have zero training, other than what they get locally. If they get any at all.
FFS, this is a sanctioning body for match shooting. The rules and training for MDs and ROs should be consistent across the board. Same with actual rules for shooting. Creating a training course by the actual people "running" PRS would go a long way towards getting rid of the "we don't do it that way at my home range" mentality.
People that shoot BR, F-Class, High Power, IDPA, etc, etc have a firm set of rules that apply nationwide.
How difficult could it actually be for the so-called sanctioning body to actually establish rules for training and match operations?
Or do they not care as long as their new boat is paid for?
Here's an opinion of mine:
Maybe every match should have an offhand stage. You shoot the rifle as is, no removable weights. This could bring down rifle weight and get rid of some of the gamer/bag benchrest mentality.
Maybe there needs to be a minimum trigger pull weight, maximum rifle weight, etc, etc...
People are going to bitch because you can't please everyone.
Fuck! You could give everyone on this site a thousand dollars. Somebody would bitch because it was all twenties. Another guy would bitch because it was all $100 bills because they are hard to spend.
You miss the main point... If you are taking money to manage a "series" you should in a word, manage it. Being a for profit organization doesn't make a company evil, but nobody has made that assertion. It would actually be a more profitable proposition for them to appeal to the masses and draw in more people, thus increasing income.
Where does the idiom "grow the sport" come from? As far as I know it comes from the same PRS organization and shooters who claim to want a broader appeal but resist anytime new ideas are brought forward. Again, the numbers don't lie. The same tired 300 shooters love the way it is and the organization just appeals to the echo chamber.
Leadership should be provided to the MDs much in the way it is provided in NRL 22 and NRL Hunter.
Frank, you asked why do many people abandon PRS?
I was under the impression most adults stuck with a hobby for 27 months.
I don't know where that number came from inside my head, but I believed it to be true.
Google says 16 months. More than one source cited the same study and time frame.
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I was under the impression most adults stuck with a hobby for 27 months.
I don't know where that number came from inside my head, but I believed it to be true.
Google says 16 months. More than one source cited the same study and time frame.
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Researchers have discovered that the typical shelf-life of a hobby
This makes more sense than just about anything else that has been said about long range matches, such as PRS, IHMSA. Been saying it for years, but know what, all the good shooters say they want it “pure” or make no changes. They don’t even want a hint of easier for the beginners and the youth and the aged.
That’s where us smaller local matches decide that for them. I don’t think anyone that shoots my PRS22 matches thinks they were too easy, and yet, I still make most stages readily accessible to new shooters.
I saw a post above that asked if it was fair to design a COF that the pros can’t clean. I believe that as a total match MD, you can and should find that close balance between accessible and not easy. If you are going to matches with the expectation that you will clean the COF, then you need a reality check.
Are most if not all of my stages cleanable by a very competent shooter on his game. I’d like to think so. Some stages are almost meatball stages if you’re in your game. But you will be challenged. Don’t like it? Don’t come back. Vote with your dollars.
It's a poorly ran organization, no doubt.
Even though I've shot my fair share of PRS matches, I've never signed up for PRS membership as I didn't see any benefit.
Look how many times PRS has changed ownership. Funny enough, not much ever changes between owners.
Agreed. But on the other hand, apparently the facilities and boats are much nicer......
All the above considered and discussed is good feedback in my opinion. To one of Frank’s points, I do think that training and an entry point is needed now more than ever. I’ve been pondering and considering what to do for a while, but I think it boils down to setting down with a couple local shooters here and hammering out a format for a practice style event that incorporates light training along with the targets and opportunities to try their hand at bettering their skill set.
At the same time, I don’t want this to either encroach on nor try and replace solid formal training that’s offered for those interested.
I’m motivated and will work out something for 2025. I only do this to provide the opportunity to local shooters, especially juniors. If I can offer more, I will.
At the same time, I don’t want this to either encroach on nor try and replace solid formal training that’s offered for those interested.
I’m motivated and will work out something for 2025. I only do this to provide the opportunity to local shooters, especially juniors. If I can offer more, I will.
At Rifles Only we regularly designed stages you couldn’t finish. The guys that tried to race to end would usually drop more points, vs the guys that just got their hits in.
But we had a lot more movement, and where we wanted to see speed we had speed drills, the 6 at 600 berm was cleaned in 9 seconds, we’d have informational races.
The handgun drag, start at 100 yard line drop down from standing, 1 round into a 1” dot at 100, sling rifle, pick up 80lbs bag, drag it 1 handed while engaging targets with your handgun every 15 yards, hit the 90 yd mark, drop the bag, run up the back 100 yard berm engage a plate on the other side. Ya our stuff was different
But we had a lot more movement, and where we wanted to see speed we had speed drills, the 6 at 600 berm was cleaned in 9 seconds, we’d have informational races.
The handgun drag, start at 100 yard line drop down from standing, 1 round into a 1” dot at 100, sling rifle, pick up 80lbs bag, drag it 1 handed while engaging targets with your handgun every 15 yards, hit the 90 yd mark, drop the bag, run up the back 100 yard berm engage a plate on the other side. Ya our stuff was different
I ran a .22 practice session on Thursday evenings in the summer when the days were long. We set up 3 total stages. And ran them over and over, giving each other pointers. No scores were kept. It was nice because you felt like you got a little bit of the weekend in the middle of the week and could catch up with buddies.
A local MD on the front range runs steel challenge matches on Wednesday evenings. You can run by and shoot the entire course of fire in 2 hours and still get home for dinner. That particular MD has a day job and just works his ass off running matches. He does more to get people on the front range into shooting than anyone else around he does.
This post explains why the match at your local club is the way it is. MDs roger up and put out their own time and money to run a match. They may take your input and they may not. But what they are doing is putting in the work. Does that qualify them to degenerate others? I'll let you decide but good on them for running that one club series. Your perception of PRS probably has more to do with the local MD than it does with the franchise. With all the sour grapes out there, you have two choices. Participate in what is currently going on or start your own match/ club/ series. If you aren't happy with the status quo then roger up and do your own thing. Run your own match/ club/ series. If you are already running your own match/ club/ series and it's successful, then good on you. Keep doing it. Should you jump online and criticize others? Is that what someone who isn't a toxic personality does? Airing sour grapes that they can't get over. Again, I'll let you decide. What I will say is what MDs like Hoser Freeman does on the front range is honorable and respectable. He doesn't engage in the drama and shit talk others. He just runs 5 different matches a month. While having a day job, serving our nation. That's what growing the sport looks like. I respect the shit out of that dude. He doesn't fuck other people down. He serves the local shooters and the nation. For years. Like 30 or 40 of them. You won't even know his name on the other side of the country. And he doesn't need recognition. He just keeps doing what he does.
But I get confused easily. When I look at the title of this thread and the later gripes I get confused what problem we're trying to solve. Again, I get confused easily.
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Surely the main issue is PRS matches is the cost to enter and most being 2 day matches.
The first match (in 2016, not PRS) I attended I like $60 and a was a one day event, 300-600 yards and I completed with a Tikka T3 lite (and did well).
I don't see a world in which PRS/IPRF is going to go back to anything like that, and probably their matches shouldn't.
Most new shooters are never going to sign up for $300 2day matches, shooting 200 rounds on expensive centrefire, most of which go into the dirt.
They way to get people into PRS is through club matches and NRL 22.
Where you can allow for spotting, and coaching under time and people won't get pissy.
I like stages where you have to make decisions under time, like big targets worth less points vs small target mvs more points.
Most of my local matches let you decide what order to shoot targets in letting you choose between getting easy points first or trying to clear the stage.
Meaning new shooters an still get hits on steel but good shooters need to have their shot together.
The cost of steel can't be ignored, but running two sets of steel like what they do at the GAP Grind could help things out. Organizationally it may turn into a mess, too, though. Not every venue can or should handle the number of people that go to the GAP Grind. I think the divisions could use more distinction and population leveling, even so far as to have a Pro, Semi-Pro, Marksman, and Amateur prize table, each separated. This would probably require some differences in scoring, especially the season scoring. You could have Amateur, Marksman, Gas Gun, maybe Production (?) shooting bigger plates, all within their own divisions, not even in the same pool as the Open/Tac guys.
Like I said earlier, there is very little incentive to do the other divisions other than trophy hunting if you're good enough (or show up with gas gun). If gas gun was shooting 1.5-3 MOA plates instead of .75-2 MOA and there was a small portion of the prize table set aside for it (maybe hit up gas gun accessory/parts mfgs.) you'd probably see a lot more gas gun participation. Same thing for amateurs learning the sport and showing up with budget rifles. You're going to get people scalping it (good shooters that aren't classed), but they'll get sorted out in short order and bumped up to the appropriate divisions.
The prize table stuff is crap I get drug into every year with our Zombie 3 gun shoot and it seems to work out. You'll never make everyone happy, but staggering the divisions with their own pool of prizes gives some incentive to show up and improve incrementally, not just give up because you think you have no chance of getting up with the "big guys". A guy can only win a hat so many times... Food for thought anyway.
ETA: This may make people shudder, but maybe put in a requirement or at least incentive at Semi-Pro or Pro to R.O. a match or help out in a sanctioned training event to participate in the finale. Not saying that is the way, just something to think about.
Like I said earlier, there is very little incentive to do the other divisions other than trophy hunting if you're good enough (or show up with gas gun). If gas gun was shooting 1.5-3 MOA plates instead of .75-2 MOA and there was a small portion of the prize table set aside for it (maybe hit up gas gun accessory/parts mfgs.) you'd probably see a lot more gas gun participation. Same thing for amateurs learning the sport and showing up with budget rifles. You're going to get people scalping it (good shooters that aren't classed), but they'll get sorted out in short order and bumped up to the appropriate divisions.
The prize table stuff is crap I get drug into every year with our Zombie 3 gun shoot and it seems to work out. You'll never make everyone happy, but staggering the divisions with their own pool of prizes gives some incentive to show up and improve incrementally, not just give up because you think you have no chance of getting up with the "big guys". A guy can only win a hat so many times... Food for thought anyway.
ETA: This may make people shudder, but maybe put in a requirement or at least incentive at Semi-Pro or Pro to R.O. a match or help out in a sanctioned training event to participate in the finale. Not saying that is the way, just something to think about.
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IMO, I think having a strategic component to a sport is important if you want to keep it interesting. PRS in its current form doesn't have any.
Every stage is more or less a form of 'place barricade bag on prop, shoot, rinse and repeat'. That's basically 90% of modern PRS stages.
When I shot a lot more PRS, I always found the stages that incorporated a form of strategy in order to be successful to be the fun ones that kept me interested. Blind stages that required you to use what's around you to build a stable position on the clock in order to be successful. Stages that incorporated elements of the natural terrain that you had to overcome. KYL stages. Stages that incorporated pistol and rifle elements. Stages that required you to mentally solve a problem in order to arrive at a solution that allowed you to be successfully (or not), on a stage.
I'm sure there are some matches that do a better job of this than others. But organizationally, PRS seems to have moved away from the above. KYL because the top 20% complained about losing points. Pistols because people shot themselves. Etc.
Its way too formulaic now. Place bag on prop. Place rifle on bag. Shoot. Repeat.
There's lots of ways that you could be creative to incorporate more strategy and risk/reward into PRS. Different size targets with different values is one. But there's many ways this could be approached.
At the end of the day some get it and others will fight change or promote the idea I am attacking them unfairly
It only takes one or two guys to step up and do things just a little different each time. 2 new stages every month for a 1 day is enough to mix it up.
Creating a pipeline for new shooters and even if you add in a few bigger targets right next to a super small one, little things matter when it’s often repeated
Guys have reach out, so despite the hate from a few towards me or the guys who don’t shoot with them, it has a positive impact- mission accomplishment
Remember your only limitation is your imagination
It only takes one or two guys to step up and do things just a little different each time. 2 new stages every month for a 1 day is enough to mix it up.
Creating a pipeline for new shooters and even if you add in a few bigger targets right next to a super small one, little things matter when it’s often repeated
Guys have reach out, so despite the hate from a few towards me or the guys who don’t shoot with them, it has a positive impact- mission accomplishment
Remember your only limitation is your imagination
Think about this, why is there no open shoot ? Or open house…
An opportunity to demonstrate what the competition is about. Where is the range that says on April 1st, come learn, come experience, sorta what they wanted for the PR Expo, stuff like that.
I remember when I shot the GAP Grind and how they had to pressure the Pros to step up. They had to add extra icing on the cake for participation sad.
Why not tag team special events to highlight the good work being put in. Seems odd you create a series and the promotion of such is nearly nonexistent
An opportunity to demonstrate what the competition is about. Where is the range that says on April 1st, come learn, come experience, sorta what they wanted for the PR Expo, stuff like that.
I remember when I shot the GAP Grind and how they had to pressure the Pros to step up. They had to add extra icing on the cake for participation sad.
Why not tag team special events to highlight the good work being put in. Seems odd you create a series and the promotion of such is nearly nonexistent
If they wanted to expand the sport to a wider audience, it would behoove them to do this. A lot of people just need that little tease to get them in the door and become participants. Without it, it seems like an overwhelming jump for many shooters to make.
The PRS could also work with OEM manufacturers (like say their sponsors) to have gear and say ~5 spots open every match for new shooters. They supply the gun, gear and ammo, you just pay for the entrance fee. Perhaps let these new shooters receive coaching on the clock, but in return their scores are only competing against other new shooters.
The "official rifle" of PRS could donate a few to the series to lend out to these new shooters. Same with "official scope" of the PRS (if there is such a thing). I'm sure it wouldn't be hard to wrangle up a few donations for barricade bags and rear bags, and you basically have a new shooter package.
The above would eliminate the mental hurdle of wanting to jump into PRS for many, and gear can be supplied for those that are interested but don't have PRS capable/optimized setups. So it eliminates that hurdle too. Of course there would be a lot of nuances to work out, but these are just some ideas off the top of my head.
Our PRS matches have an open shoot.
The question is, do you need someone to tell you to do it?
As much as most of the people on this website, hate having a strong central government that interferes in business that they think should be their states' ability to manage you would think the same people would be in favor of a very small light non-interfering central governing body with regions, managing these issues and the way they see fit.
The question is, do you need someone to tell you to do it?
As much as most of the people on this website, hate having a strong central government that interferes in business that they think should be their states' ability to manage you would think the same people would be in favor of a very small light non-interfering central governing body with regions, managing these issues and the way they see fit.
I know the answer it’s ugly and I won’t repeat it, and it wasn’t fair on 2 counts, him and Baker
Who is against this, every series has a body ?
I seriously think some of you are not getting this at all, you think I’m saying get rid of the governing body, I implied nothing of the kind ?
No. Total misread. I'm not saying that. You're not saying that. No one here is saying that.
Strong central government telling states what and how to do their business through rules and regulations. Or loose governing body allowing regional MDs to implement all the things you think need to be improved. Like open range days. Which our region already does every November. We didn't need Shannon Kay to tell us to do that. We just did it to bring new people in and make it more accessible.
There are a couple of ranges in my region that do the same.
One has a train-up day on the Friday before their club match weekend (Centerfire match on Sat, Rimfire on Sun). Another has a true open range every so often on Saturday, with staff on hand to spot for and otherwise assist anyone who needs help, whether it be with doping out their rifle, making a wind call, etc.
The monthly match local to me used to hold a beginner train-up match once a year that was 6 stages and had experienced shooters at each stage to help coach and also let you borrow gear and try things out with no pressure.
Also I know of quite a few monthly matches in my area with loaner rifles, gear and ammo for new shooters. I always assumed all matches did this kind of stuff for new shooters
Also I know of quite a few monthly matches in my area with loaner rifles, gear and ammo for new shooters. I always assumed all matches did this kind of stuff for new shooters
What you said @Lowlight resonated with me a bit man, that we need to do more as a community to share experiences and lessons learned... I put together a bit of a ramble video to cover off on the IPRF last week. Fortunately, I have a small platform to climb up onto and make some noise, but it's still just a token effort, difficult to get much traction and put a lot of time into video editing and creation.
Was good to catch up with you mate.
Video Link
In Australia, local clubs are run by a handful of motivated and eager shooters who eventually get taken advantage of and burn out... It's a difficult situation, where a club won't exist without people who are motivated, but who generally end up doing the bulk of the heavy lifting with meetings, organising everything, setting up and taking down targets etc.
I've been shooting PRS since 2017 just after it kicked off here. A lot has changed in terms of barricade quality, stage planning, match book creation, shooter skill, equipment etc. but I also agree, that most of the top level shooters generally keep to themselves and we do have a tendency to go insular at times despite best interests at heart.
Some clubs are open to training days with 'pro shooters' to come in and run through some skills development, this is always received well and pushes newer people months ahead in terms of lost opportunity and development.
I would like to see 2025 be a rapid development year with every second club match, do half the number of stages, run TWICE... With a quick pre-stage chat, a rehearsal (run 1), debrief as a group then final run. This will greatly boost opportunity to try different things, be watched by helpful eyes and provide additional exposure to what normally happens only on the clock for most shooters.
We need to put aside club championship points, medals and all that crap sometimes, for the greater good.
Burn out is definitely a thing in Australia also, we get a lot of new shooters who turn up for a while, get mauled by wind / barricades / lack of equipment or inappropriate equipment use etc. then disappear... It's a shame, when we should all be pushing forward together.
FWIW...
Thanks,
J
Was good to catch up with you mate.
Video Link
In Australia, local clubs are run by a handful of motivated and eager shooters who eventually get taken advantage of and burn out... It's a difficult situation, where a club won't exist without people who are motivated, but who generally end up doing the bulk of the heavy lifting with meetings, organising everything, setting up and taking down targets etc.
I've been shooting PRS since 2017 just after it kicked off here. A lot has changed in terms of barricade quality, stage planning, match book creation, shooter skill, equipment etc. but I also agree, that most of the top level shooters generally keep to themselves and we do have a tendency to go insular at times despite best interests at heart.
Some clubs are open to training days with 'pro shooters' to come in and run through some skills development, this is always received well and pushes newer people months ahead in terms of lost opportunity and development.
I would like to see 2025 be a rapid development year with every second club match, do half the number of stages, run TWICE... With a quick pre-stage chat, a rehearsal (run 1), debrief as a group then final run. This will greatly boost opportunity to try different things, be watched by helpful eyes and provide additional exposure to what normally happens only on the clock for most shooters.
We need to put aside club championship points, medals and all that crap sometimes, for the greater good.
Burn out is definitely a thing in Australia also, we get a lot of new shooters who turn up for a while, get mauled by wind / barricades / lack of equipment or inappropriate equipment use etc. then disappear... It's a shame, when we should all be pushing forward together.
FWIW...
Thanks,
J
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This here.
I have not competed at all any shooting contest. I have had to shoot in a test for a commission to carry a firearm on duty. And more recently, shoot to have an LTC. But that is not this.
I have not competed in any long range or PRS matches. I get the problem, though. It is becoming more about equipment and what the winners are getting good at is bagging a 30 lb rifle with the smallest recoil. Which is only good for that contest. And then, no one is offering the idea, even, to "grow the sport" by offering training pathways to get new people into the sport. And those new people may not have a lot of money. Therefore, they might very well arrive with a Ruger Precision Rifle or something they could afford and getting laughed at by the gucci purse swingers is just going to piss them off.
So, for me, how useful is the positional shooting at distance? Obviously, it has a military use for snipers in the Marines, Rangers, SF, SEALs.
Excluding much of the sneaky bastard work, at least set up shots where you have a hide and are rested. And then the next stage is hump a distance and up some stairs or a ladder to an elevated platform and be a DM and you need to make a shot within a time limit. And that would definitely require training. You could spend 10k on a rig and it won't help a bit if you don't have the mechanical ability to operate the system.
I don't begrudge bench rest or even cut-and-paste barricade PRS shooting. It beats selling crack cocaine.
How about improvised positions one might find while hunting if we cannot train as something similar to SOTIC in the Rangers?
I know I am just spitballing. I am still the stupidest guy here and that does not bother me. And I may misunderstood the OP post.
Anyone can correct me and I will not be bothered by it.
