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Has anyone shot enough n568 to know if it likes to deepthroat your shank like n570?
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It's a shorter barrel so it may need a faster powder than Retumbo. And If I can get 2700-2750 out of it, I'll be happy. If what I have on hand doesn't give me what I want, that will be the next option.
N570 is the optimum powder for performance in the 300 NM but know the price to be paid. I would recommend cleaning at shorter intervals than you may be used to, it definitely seems to help with consistency.
They’re great groups and nobody should diminish that
It’s the “all day long” part we should be wary of
It’s the “all day long” part we should be wary of
Good day for sure, but nothing is ever “all day long”
@secondofangle2 i definitely never stated 1/4” all day long. I wouldn’t say all day long to 1 moa cause shit happens lol.
I know.
I also don’t post my shitty groups - it’s like posting pics of fat old women, nobody wants to see that shit
I also don’t post my shitty groups - it’s like posting pics of fat old women, nobody wants to see that shit
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Oh I know you didn't, I was just clowning on previous comments about people saying stuff like that with nothing to back it up. I hope I can get close to your results when I get mine up and running
I get pressure signs at the berger starting load for 230g and h1000
so I spent a while on phone with berger today and thought I'd share, in context of posts above in this thread from this summer all the way back to 2017. (I only included a couple out of many)
the explanation they gave seems to be a big difference in case capacity between norma and lapua brass. berger data is based on quickload, not their own testing. the berger data presented so far in this thread was based on norma cases. I am using lapua and getting pressure. in another rifle, i used norma 300nm brass and did not get pressure so it makes sense to me so far. They reran the numbers using lapua brass in quickload for me and say the starting load is FIVE GRAINS lower. 76.1g H1000 for 230g and 215m primers.
I'm not sure that 100% explains my experience because I'm still getting pressure 3 grains before I get to their max load, but maybe that's a combination of the AI barrel being a couple inches longer, suppressed and perhaps tighter than the 26" quickload theoretical barrel.
FWIW my current load of 79.7g h1000 230g berg in lapua brass gives a very consistent 2914 fps in my axsr. with the new lapua-based data, the charge is in the middle of their range but still 120 fps over their max velocity of 2793
good luck
What crazy in my axsr anything near 3000 fps is a no go. Others that I know with same rifle, can exceed 3000 fps. But, mine can't. ie... bolt hard to open stuff like that.
Just trying to remember, about that ?. Cause it has been discussed before
Using my Lapua brass case capacity and other dimensions (103.84 gr of H2O), Im getting 83.7 gr of H1000 @2945 fps as max load and 97.4% fill, and 81.4 gr at 15% below max pressure 94.8% fill and 2865 fps.
I havent used H1000 before, and I typically see the larger magnums having more real world velocity than what I get in GRT, usually its within 20 fps for short action cartridges.
ETA: Playing around with seating depth, if I adjust COAL to 3.300" I get 80.7 gr as max, and 79.7gr at 2885fps and 6% below max pressure.
I havent used H1000 before, and I typically see the larger magnums having more real world velocity than what I get in GRT, usually its within 20 fps for short action cartridges.
ETA: Playing around with seating depth, if I adjust COAL to 3.300" I get 80.7 gr as max, and 79.7gr at 2885fps and 6% below max pressure.
That’s a great group. Probably quarter-inch or less if you measure center to center.
Lots of people run 245 Bergers with 85gr of N570. I'd back it off and start at about 80
For 215s N570 isn't ideal but still pretty good
N565 is a better choice, from my experience
You could use N560, but I think it's a little too fast
For the 245s and 250s, I've been using N170 and N570, both within the 84-85gr zone
N565 is a better choice, from my experience
You could use N560, but I think it's a little too fast
For the 245s and 250s, I've been using N170 and N570, both within the 84-85gr zone
Just finished development of my new 300 Norma Magnum load. Average 2760 fps, ES 15, SD 5 over 30 shots. Confirmed in weather 30-45 degrees at 4k elevation. Barrel is a 8 twist 27in Bartlein on an AXSR with TBAC SR brake.
245 Berger LRHT
77.6 Hodgdon H1000
Federal 210 primers
Lapua brass
Jump is .02
Pic shows 10 shots at 100 yards.
245 Berger LRHT
77.6 Hodgdon H1000
Federal 210 primers
Lapua brass
Jump is .02
Pic shows 10 shots at 100 yards.
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Been shooting 245g LRHT and they are awesome. Shooting a few fps over max velocity but 5 grains under max charge at 75.04g h1000 according to data Berger emailed to me:
On nov 13-16 I shot
2719,2721,2716,2714,2712
2714,2717,2720,2719,2714
2715,2717,2717,2719,2713
The first and third row were new lapua brass and the middle was with 4x fired then annealed brass.
Single digit ES for the 15 rounds
6 more rounds shooting with thermal on the 17th stretched the range 2 FPS lower and 1 fps higher for a 12 fps ES over 21 rounds.
2710,2719,2722,2711,2715,2719
The garmin avg for groups on those two days were
2716.4
2716.8
2716.2
2715.7
2715.4
2716.6
At the end of that, I had 313 rounds on barrel and 68 since the last cleaning.
AI makes a decent axsr barrel. My groups are bigger than moaorbust but not too much bigger and I’m also shooting Tbac 338Ultra gen2 SR. But 215m instead of 210. And my temps were in 60s.
On nov 13-16 I shot
2719,2721,2716,2714,2712
2714,2717,2720,2719,2714
2715,2717,2717,2719,2713
The first and third row were new lapua brass and the middle was with 4x fired then annealed brass.
Single digit ES for the 15 rounds
6 more rounds shooting with thermal on the 17th stretched the range 2 FPS lower and 1 fps higher for a 12 fps ES over 21 rounds.
2710,2719,2722,2711,2715,2719
The garmin avg for groups on those two days were
2716.4
2716.8
2716.2
2715.7
2715.4
2716.6
At the end of that, I had 313 rounds on barrel and 68 since the last cleaning.
AI makes a decent axsr barrel. My groups are bigger than moaorbust but not too much bigger and I’m also shooting Tbac 338Ultra gen2 SR. But 215m instead of 210. And my temps were in 60s.
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The load was chosen based on performance and pressure. I started testing a grain below RCBS suggested max and went up looking for pressure warning signs. Box 1 was 73 up to 82 in .5 increments and found several loads worth exploring further. Many loads had great numbers but bad groups. For box 2 I took the last results and made the increments .25 which shrunk choices to only a couple. Box 3 was the final test so I needed a larger sample size of 25 each. 150 total rounds.
Well, the ES and SD are hard to argue with, but I have the same rifle/barrel (but with an Ultra 338 Gen 1 on the end). I haven't shot the 245s yet, but the factory Berger 230 load was right at 3000fps to begin with. Later lots have been around 2940 avg. All to say, 2760 seems awful slow, but I haven't hand loaded for it yet. My loads in the 27" AXSR 300PRC are 78.1gr Retumbo running 2895 with a 230 Berger, and the 338NM (same case as the 300NM) with 88.1gr Retumbo running a 300gr Berger at 2742. Accuracy is similar to yours with all of the above. Also, it is true that Retumbo gives better velocities with the heavier bullets than H1000, so there's that too. And, you are doing better on MV than their data for the 245 shows, even at that load. I will be developing a 245 Berger/Retumbo load for the 300NM soon, but based on how it shot the factory loaded 230s near 3000, I'm hoping for something around 2900 for the 245s.
All great decisions, and with that ES and SD you are way ahead of the game vs a higher MV at their expense. I was just surprised you got into pressure at that MV. I may be seeing the same thing when I get there shortly. I was just extrapolating from what I got out of the 230s.
.300NM north of 3,000 fps with 250's.
Lapua cases, AMP annealed after every firing; Hendersen Gen 2 trim case to spec length & chamfer neck; CCI LRM primers set with Primal Rights CPS; Hornady One-Shot case lube; L.E. Wilson FL resizing die: shoulder set back 0.001", .335" neck bushing, N170, 250 A-Tip with neck area sprayed with One-Shot, seated at 0.020" from lands; 32" barrel, 1:8 twist rate; TBAC .338 Ultra Gen 2.
At 70F ambient / 500' elevation performance typically ranges from 3,025 fps (5.3 SD) to 3,045 fps (7.7 SD) [five round samples], with "bugholes" groups at 100 yards. Sub-MOA groups on 18" diameter steel at 1,760 yards. Primer pockets remain intact, no indications of any over-pressure (i.e. no bolt lift resistance, no "clickers").
Looking forward to Area 419 producing .300NM insert sleeve for their "M" series die, hopefully early 2025. We already have the "M" die for my wife's .300 PRC, and the precision and ease with which desired shoulder set back can be acheived, coupled with true full-length resizing and neck mandrel, justifies the up-front investment . No clickers, no bolt lift resistance.
We've set aside the N570 (nearly 16# on hand) and have formulated combinations using N170 that allow significantly increased barrel life while preserving case condition.
Lapua cases, AMP annealed after every firing; Hendersen Gen 2 trim case to spec length & chamfer neck; CCI LRM primers set with Primal Rights CPS; Hornady One-Shot case lube; L.E. Wilson FL resizing die: shoulder set back 0.001", .335" neck bushing, N170, 250 A-Tip with neck area sprayed with One-Shot, seated at 0.020" from lands; 32" barrel, 1:8 twist rate; TBAC .338 Ultra Gen 2.
At 70F ambient / 500' elevation performance typically ranges from 3,025 fps (5.3 SD) to 3,045 fps (7.7 SD) [five round samples], with "bugholes" groups at 100 yards. Sub-MOA groups on 18" diameter steel at 1,760 yards. Primer pockets remain intact, no indications of any over-pressure (i.e. no bolt lift resistance, no "clickers").
Looking forward to Area 419 producing .300NM insert sleeve for their "M" series die, hopefully early 2025. We already have the "M" die for my wife's .300 PRC, and the precision and ease with which desired shoulder set back can be acheived, coupled with true full-length resizing and neck mandrel, justifies the up-front investment . No clickers, no bolt lift resistance.
We've set aside the N570 (nearly 16# on hand) and have formulated combinations using N170 that allow significantly increased barrel life while preserving case condition.
Yeah, but my 338 Norma will run a 300gr nearly that fast (2740-2750) as he's getting from a 245 (2760) using the same basic case and barrel length/manufacturer. Factory Berger 230s in the 300 Norma were pushing 3000 pre-Covid. I wasn't suggesting he should be anywhere near 3000, but maybe near 2900 seems possible. 2760 just seems awfully low for going up a mere 15gr in bullet wt. BUT, as I said, he's got outstanding accuracy and ES/SD, so it's a great load and I agree with his decision to run it. I think, and he seems to agree, it's probably the H1000 being a little fast to get the MV up for the heavier bullet. I'm going to be trying Retumbo on the 245 very soon, although N570 seems to give optimum performance - I'm just a little shy of the reports of decreased barrel life and heavy fouling associated with it. It's already a pretty short barrel life to begin with.
I'm also using the M-die for the 300PRC and have been lobbying them to go ahead and come out with the 300NM for over a year. Did you get some info from them suggesting they were going to come out with it soon? Early 2025 is almost here!
I checked my original notes from the round one tests. Between 74 and 81 grains speed went from 2567 to 2834. There were no pressure signs on the brass but once the bolt starts to get sticky know I am playing with fire. Given the other loads posted here, and powders used, I do suspect H1000 is just too fast. I may try and score some cheap 220 Bergers on the hide and run another set of tests to confirm they run faster.
Well at the time, it was the only available option that wasnt $800 plus for 8lbs. However, in my limited testing its relatively temp stable (0.5fps/deg), Im at nearly 99% case fill, and well below max pressure, and still getting decent MV (2912, and 5.6 SD, ES 16 over 36 rounds).
That being said, I have not compared it to N570. Chances are, its a more suitable powder, but I think RL50 is a viable option.
That being said, I have not compared it to N570. Chances are, its a more suitable powder, but I think RL50 is a viable option.
RL33 and RL50 are both kind of on the slow side for the cartridge in general, but doable for shooting 250s - you're just going to be leaving a little performance on the table (and maybe some unburnt powder).
Blue Collar Reloading, Powder Valley, and Natchezss all have it in stock right now.
RL 50 is on sale at Midsouth for $289 for 8 pounds. That is the best deal on the market right now for pretty much any powder.
And 570 has been a lot more available in the last six months, and it gets you easily 50 to 100 ft./s over the closest alternative, but it will deep throat your tube lol
I refuse to use it after burning up one barrel in about 600 rounds. If it was a dedicated hunting rig with only 20 shots fired per year. I might make that deal with the devil. But not for any gun that I plan to shoot for practice or pleasure.
And 570 has been a lot more available in the last six months, and it gets you easily 50 to 100 ft./s over the closest alternative, but it will deep throat your tube lol
I refuse to use it after burning up one barrel in about 600 rounds. If it was a dedicated hunting rig with only 20 shots fired per year. I might make that deal with the devil. But not for any gun that I plan to shoot for practice or pleasure.
