My buddy I know he runs 88 grains of n570 245 bergers he's right at 3000 feet with his improved. 30 inch barrel if I remember correctly. I never ended up doing a full load development I had some issues and needed to save barrel life I ended up 79 grains n565 245 berger 2867 avg. It just hammers and stays in tune so I didn't mess with it before the nightforce. I need to redo the load but already have close to 700 rds on it so prolly not worth it.
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Berger 30cal 208gr Long Range Hybrid Target
Product Information: Caliber: 30cal Bullet Diameter: 0.308" Bullet Weight: 208 Grains OAL: 1.575" Bullet Style: Long Range Hybrid Target Recommended Twist Rate: 1 in 10" or faster G1 BC: 0.689 G7 BC: 0.354 Part Number: 30485 or 30785 Quantity: 100 or 250
www.bluecollarreloading.com
220 LRHTs
I have the components. Looking for others that have ran this combo. Thanks.Berger 30cal 208gr Long Range Hybrid Target
Product Information: Caliber: 30cal Bullet Diameter: 0.308" Bullet Weight: 208 Grains OAL: 1.575" Bullet Style: Long Range Hybrid Target Recommended Twist Rate: 1 in 10" or faster G1 BC: 0.689 G7 BC: 0.354 Part Number: 30485 or 30785 Quantity: 100 or 250
220 LRHTs
Just looking at the ADI manufactured powders, but seems to be across the board, Hogdgon loads only seem to to go to around 60,000psi, but even if you extrapolate to ~64,000psi the Berger numbers seem to be a decent chunk beyond that so I'd definitely want to start at the bottom of those.
The Berger data is known to blow primers even at the starting load
I can tell you this much. I ran Lapua brass, Federal 215M and 245 Bergers with 87.0 grs of N570 and never had any pressure issues. The starting load of 83.5 with the 220 and N570 seems useable. Can't speak for other powders or combinations.
The Berger stuff seems pretty hot.
I currently use 83.0 grains of N570 with 220 LRHTs, and that's fast enough for me. That pushes them about 2920 fps out of my 28" barrel.
I think people tend to push the .300NM pretty hard, well into pressure. Some of the velocities and powder charges I see posted make me cringe.
If you really want to see people flirting with pressure, check out the long range hunting forum. I think people are pushing 230's above 3150 fps over there
I currently use 83.0 grains of N570 with 220 LRHTs, and that's fast enough for me. That pushes them about 2920 fps out of my 28" barrel.
I think people tend to push the .300NM pretty hard, well into pressure. Some of the velocities and powder charges I see posted make me cringe.
If you really want to see people flirting with pressure, check out the long range hunting forum. I think people are pushing 230's above 3150 fps over there
100% agree. I think the lapua cases hold and hide pressure and people go crazy!! I see some pretty crazy things with other cases tooThe Berger stuff seems pretty hot.
I currently use 83.0 grains of N570 with 220 LRHTs, and that's fast enough for me. That pushes them about 2920 fps out of my 28" barrel.
I think people tend to push the .300NM pretty hard, well into pressure. Some of the velocities and powder charges I see posted make me cringe.
If you really want to see people flirting with pressure, check out the long range hunting forum. I think people are pushing 230's above 3150 fps over there
That's definitely a cupcake load if you're talking 300 NMI, I too ran 245 eols with 87 grains N570 without the slightest pressure signs, I tested that load in a single lapua case over and over again and it's at 21 reloads now and primers are tight as new.The Berger stuff seems pretty hot.
I currently use 83.0 grains of N570 with 220 LRHTs, and that's fast enough for me. That pushes them about 2920 fps out of my 28" barrel.
I think people tend to push the .300NM pretty hard, well into pressure. Some of the velocities and powder charges I see posted make me cringe.
If you really want to see people flirting with pressure, check out the long range hunting forum. I think people are pushing 230's above 3150 fps over there
That said I've settled on 81 grains H1000 with the 245s going 2820 and a ridiculous ES of 5! I took that load out to 1585 a few weeks ago and was 3 for 4 on a 15" target.
Chasing max speed is a waste of time.
Oh yeah, my load is definitely a "cupcake load" - its nowhere near pressure. You can definitely push a 220 much faster than I currently am and still be okay pressure wise. Mines not an NMI btw.
I agree on the last statement. People love to chase max speed - especially in these fast magnums used for ELR type work where speed is everything.
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Speed isn’t everything. SD matters too and so does accuracy. Max speed can compromise both.
Sincerely,
Dr. Obvious
Sincerely,
Dr. Obvious
Ok so i have 230 grain berger OTM and sig brass. school me. I have h1000 and retumbo. what are we thinking? Also on a side note with sig brass anyone have recs on bullets? I am completely ready for a new load development
Any experience with sig brass? I have both norma and sig, new production within the last month.
Was just wondering if it was as soft and prone to degradation as Norma brass was.
I don't use H1000 or Retumbo in the 300 Norma but I have found it to be very easy to tune cartridge. In one of my rifles I use Norma 217 with 230 grain A-tips with 86.9 grains shoots amazing (3063 fps) and I would not recommend for anyone to run this load in another barrel. Because it is impossible to find this powder anymore, I have been experimenting with different powders in another rifle still a work in progress due to time constraints.
For this rifle, also chambered in 300 Norma I am using a 26" CA carbon fiber barrel. I tried 85-87 grains of VV N570 and BMG 50 with 225 gr. ELD-Ms all of which shot very well across the entire range. The velocity with BMG 50 was too low so I need to run more tests at higher charge weights.
I would recommend you try Retumbo with the 230 gr. berger (I think Retumbo will give you better case fill). Any quality brass should work, I recommend you anneal and bump the shoulder 0.002" so as to minimize brass wear. Attaching someone else's information previously presented on this forum:
Hope this helps...
Hell yeah, thank you very much kind sir! I really appreciate the info! I will post my findings and data
I forgot to ask, anyone here with a 26inch 1:8 barrett mrad that has the ideal powder/bullet? Some knowledgeable people above have given me some info. I still can't decide what powder I want to start with. My retumbo and h1000 on hand was reloaded this past week in other things.
N170 is highly underrated - if only they would bring import jugs bigger than 1lb.
Def an option although probably not ideal to retumbo. Going to try some n570 possibly this winter and I will have some personal data points...
See if it torches the throat as bad as everyone claims
565 is faster than h1k so not sure if that's a great option honestly unless running really light bullets
I'd be careful with N570, I shot it for 2 years, but found it was extremely temp sensitive. So did my friend who was shooting it also during that time. We were shooting ELR rifles with 30-32" barrels, Lapua Cases, Fed 215M primers, Berger 245 EOLs, and 81.0-83.0 grains of N 570. At the 2023 Nightforce ELR match we chrono'd our loads over the Applied Ballistics doppler radar, got our custom AB curves at an air temp of around 85 degrees. The next morning of the match, a front blew in and the morning temps were around 60 degrees and my friend and I shot poorly the first few stages, with problems missing low. We changed our Kestrels to lower the velocity by 100 fps and our predicted dope was good for the rest of the match with me making 4 of 5 hits on the unicorn at 1760 yds. We later confirmed that our velocities were about 100fps lower than they were at 83 degrees. So a 23 degree temp difference had to be the cause. Also N570 was extremely dirty and ran very hot.
I switched to 81.0 gr. of H1000 with Berger 245s and got about 2860 velocity. That load shows no pressure signs, the cases resize easily, and the primers look good. My friend switched to N565 and got about the same velocities and we both had noticeably better results this year at the 2024 Nightforce ELR match.
I was there both years. Good info I still have some retumbo and havent heard a lot great about 570 other than it will yield the best speeds
We both got higher velocities with N570, I think my friend was getting around 3050 through a 32" Bartein with no pressure signs, but the temp sensitivity was a deal killer for both of us.
I think we were in squad 3 this year and by my count I shot significantly better except the scoring fiasco had my recorded score around 15 points lower than what wrote down on my score card. This year my rifle performed better but the wind kicked my ass
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Thats really good to know. I feel like there is a split campy with N570. I have some piezoelectric membranes that I can test pressures with at multiple points in the throat/barrel. I was thinking about integrating this into load development. I just don't know my starting point. I have an idea now
The temp sensitivity you’re seeing may be a relatively new thing? We’re both kinda anecdotal on this, but while I mostly shoot temperate conditions these days, I saw wild temp swings when I lived in New Zealand back in the early 2010s. N570 was very consistent for me in those years shooting .338LM, and a huge improvement over RL25.
Not sure, I can only report my experience and my friends experience with the 8 lb jugs of N570 that we bought around 2022.
I’m wondering if maybe there was a lot to lot inconsistencies causing temp swings. I’ve been running n570 for 2 years in my Norma with great temp stability. One of the main reasons I’m using it still. It’s definitely dirty, and it’s definitely a hot powder. Rl33 was the only powder that yielded better velocity but I found it unstable
N570 burned up my 375 barrel by the time I was done with load development lol
Too high a price to pay for 50-100 fps over Retumbo
Too high a price to pay for 50-100 fps over Retumbo
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I can't explain why others have found N570 to be stable and I and my friend didnt. At the 2023 Nightforce ELR, my experience and my friends experience with temp instability was all from the same jug of powder and the same batch of ammo loaded all on the same day, so I don't think it was lot to lot inconsistency. It was weird behavior which I can't really explain, but it wasn't due to a change in lot of powder or any other component.
Michasco1:
Two .300 NMs: both 1.25" straight 32" barrels 1:8 twist rate. . One is an ARC Coup-de-Grace action, the other is a Defiance Deviant Tactical RBLP blind bottom.
TBAC Gen 2 Ultra 9 .338.
Two .300 NMs: both 1.25" straight 32" barrels 1:8 twist rate. . One is an ARC Coup-de-Grace action, the other is a Defiance Deviant Tactical RBLP blind bottom.
TBAC Gen 2 Ultra 9 .338.
Maybe I didn’t say it properly but I’m wondering if there is issues with inconsistency from lot to lot. As you mentioned you and your friends was loaded from the same lot, and I have a different lot. You experienced temp instability and I’m experiencing temp stability.
Bottom line is all powders have the potential to perform differently at any given time and what people are spilling on the internet just adds to the confusion, most often you aren't getting anything but the what that individual deems to be the most important details, whether intentional or not, and it's impossible to come to a concrete conclusion just based on internet posts.
I have seen some of the what are supposed to be the most stable powders do some crazy shit and I don't have an explanation for it. How old a lot of powder is, how long it was sitting on a shelf at a distributor, how temperature controlled are the environments where they're sitting, how much humidity did it absorb through the container while it was sitting, how long have you had the powder and how are you storing it, do you leave it in a dispenser until the next time you load, what kind of environment do you load in, does that change from day to day, week to week, etc, are you loading some at home and then some at the range in different environments, is the ammo sitting in a hot, humid car for hrs, what was the quality control at the factory where it was produced, is the chemical composition consistency held to the same standard with each and every lot, I could literally go on and on about all the outside influences that affect variances in powder.
Some are better than others, but take it with a grain of salt and use the powder that works best for the combination you are running and try to keep everything on your end as consistent as possible.
I hate trying new loads and powders because I refuse to buy an 8lb jug of powder if it's not a load I've previously worked with, so I start with 1lb of powder and by the time I'm ready to call it good, I either can't find 8lb jugs or when I do, the load isn't even close to what it was during previous testing, and yes I do this after the barrel is broken in. The variables are endless.
I used N570 exclusively for a 300 Norma and heavy bullets. One day I was getting great ES numbers and then one day I wasn't and this was from the same 8lb container I was using, let alone switching containers or lots. No change in the load process whatsoever. Tried a different container and lot# and could not get it back to where it was. Never did figure it out.
I share the frustration of the above two posts. I have been in exactly those positions.
Yet here on the forums, you would think that there are guys that are getting standard deviations at 3 ft./s every single day for years on end. And then you think you must be screwing something up.
I think we have a lot of selective attention to data and even more selection in reporting data here. Kind of like the “one quarter inch groups all day long” claim from the guy with a tactical rifle shooting off of bipod
Yet here on the forums, you would think that there are guys that are getting standard deviations at 3 ft./s every single day for years on end. And then you think you must be screwing something up.
I think we have a lot of selective attention to data and even more selection in reporting data here. Kind of like the “one quarter inch groups all day long” claim from the guy with a tactical rifle shooting off of bipod
I've never shot n570 I've always been close to try it but always decide not to because I hear how dirty it is how it eats throats a d the temp stable part is always hit or miss. Seems like some guys have good luck others not so much. I decided to stick with n565 and loose 100ft or so but dang is it stable and also trying n568 which in past the little I shot it in a different case was very stable ad well.
I believe N565 was the direct result of what VV liked about N560 and N570 and tried to combine those attributes into a more stable powder for military applications. I have seen less speed and more consistency with it then N570,
