Hell yeah, thank you very much kind sir! I really appreciate the info! I will post my findings and data
I forgot to ask, anyone here with a 26inch 1:8 barrett mrad that has the ideal powder/bullet? Some knowledgeable people above have given me some info. I still can't decide what powder I want to start with. My retumbo and h1000 on hand was reloaded this past week in other things.
N170 is highly underrated - if only they would bring import jugs bigger than 1lb.
Def an option although probably not ideal to retumbo. Going to try some n570 possibly this winter and I will have some personal data points...
See if it torches the throat as bad as everyone claims
565 is faster than h1k so not sure if that's a great option honestly unless running really light bullets
I'd be careful with N570, I shot it for 2 years, but found it was extremely temp sensitive. So did my friend who was shooting it also during that time. We were shooting ELR rifles with 30-32" barrels, Lapua Cases, Fed 215M primers, Berger 245 EOLs, and 81.0-83.0 grains of N 570. At the 2023 Nightforce ELR match we chrono'd our loads over the Applied Ballistics doppler radar, got our custom AB curves at an air temp of around 85 degrees. The next morning of the match, a front blew in and the morning temps were around 60 degrees and my friend and I shot poorly the first few stages, with problems missing low. We changed our Kestrels to lower the velocity by 100 fps and our predicted dope was good for the rest of the match with me making 4 of 5 hits on the unicorn at 1760 yds. We later confirmed that our velocities were about 100fps lower than they were at 83 degrees. So a 23 degree temp difference had to be the cause. Also N570 was extremely dirty and ran very hot.
I switched to 81.0 gr. of H1000 with Berger 245s and got about 2860 velocity. That load shows no pressure signs, the cases resize easily, and the primers look good. My friend switched to N565 and got about the same velocities and we both had noticeably better results this year at the 2024 Nightforce ELR match.
I was there both years. Good info I still have some retumbo and havent heard a lot great about 570 other than it will yield the best speeds
We both got higher velocities with N570, I think my friend was getting around 3050 through a 32" Bartein with no pressure signs, but the temp sensitivity was a deal killer for both of us.
I think we were in squad 3 this year and by my count I shot significantly better except the scoring fiasco had my recorded score around 15 points lower than what wrote down on my score card. This year my rifle performed better but the wind kicked my ass
Last edited:
Thats really good to know. I feel like there is a split campy with N570. I have some piezoelectric membranes that I can test pressures with at multiple points in the throat/barrel. I was thinking about integrating this into load development. I just don't know my starting point. I have an idea now
The temp sensitivity you’re seeing may be a relatively new thing? We’re both kinda anecdotal on this, but while I mostly shoot temperate conditions these days, I saw wild temp swings when I lived in New Zealand back in the early 2010s. N570 was very consistent for me in those years shooting .338LM, and a huge improvement over RL25.
Not sure, I can only report my experience and my friends experience with the 8 lb jugs of N570 that we bought around 2022.
I’m wondering if maybe there was a lot to lot inconsistencies causing temp swings. I’ve been running n570 for 2 years in my Norma with great temp stability. One of the main reasons I’m using it still. It’s definitely dirty, and it’s definitely a hot powder. Rl33 was the only powder that yielded better velocity but I found it unstable
N570 burned up my 375 barrel by the time I was done with load development lol
Too high a price to pay for 50-100 fps over Retumbo
Too high a price to pay for 50-100 fps over Retumbo
Last edited:
I can't explain why others have found N570 to be stable and I and my friend didnt. At the 2023 Nightforce ELR, my experience and my friends experience with temp instability was all from the same jug of powder and the same batch of ammo loaded all on the same day, so I don't think it was lot to lot inconsistency. It was weird behavior which I can't really explain, but it wasn't due to a change in lot of powder or any other component.
Michasco1:
Two .300 NMs: both 1.25" straight 32" barrels 1:8 twist rate. . One is an ARC Coup-de-Grace action, the other is a Defiance Deviant Tactical RBLP blind bottom.
TBAC Gen 2 Ultra 9 .338.
Two .300 NMs: both 1.25" straight 32" barrels 1:8 twist rate. . One is an ARC Coup-de-Grace action, the other is a Defiance Deviant Tactical RBLP blind bottom.
TBAC Gen 2 Ultra 9 .338.
Maybe I didn’t say it properly but I’m wondering if there is issues with inconsistency from lot to lot. As you mentioned you and your friends was loaded from the same lot, and I have a different lot. You experienced temp instability and I’m experiencing temp stability.
Bottom line is all powders have the potential to perform differently at any given time and what people are spilling on the internet just adds to the confusion, most often you aren't getting anything but the what that individual deems to be the most important details, whether intentional or not, and it's impossible to come to a concrete conclusion just based on internet posts.
I have seen some of the what are supposed to be the most stable powders do some crazy shit and I don't have an explanation for it. How old a lot of powder is, how long it was sitting on a shelf at a distributor, how temperature controlled are the environments where they're sitting, how much humidity did it absorb through the container while it was sitting, how long have you had the powder and how are you storing it, do you leave it in a dispenser until the next time you load, what kind of environment do you load in, does that change from day to day, week to week, etc, are you loading some at home and then some at the range in different environments, is the ammo sitting in a hot, humid car for hrs, what was the quality control at the factory where it was produced, is the chemical composition consistency held to the same standard with each and every lot, I could literally go on and on about all the outside influences that affect variances in powder.
Some are better than others, but take it with a grain of salt and use the powder that works best for the combination you are running and try to keep everything on your end as consistent as possible.
I hate trying new loads and powders because I refuse to buy an 8lb jug of powder if it's not a load I've previously worked with, so I start with 1lb of powder and by the time I'm ready to call it good, I either can't find 8lb jugs or when I do, the load isn't even close to what it was during previous testing, and yes I do this after the barrel is broken in. The variables are endless.
I used N570 exclusively for a 300 Norma and heavy bullets. One day I was getting great ES numbers and then one day I wasn't and this was from the same 8lb container I was using, let alone switching containers or lots. No change in the load process whatsoever. Tried a different container and lot# and could not get it back to where it was. Never did figure it out.
I share the frustration of the above two posts. I have been in exactly those positions.
Yet here on the forums, you would think that there are guys that are getting standard deviations at 3 ft./s every single day for years on end. And then you think you must be screwing something up.
I think we have a lot of selective attention to data and even more selection in reporting data here. Kind of like the “one quarter inch groups all day long” claim from the guy with a tactical rifle shooting off of bipod
Yet here on the forums, you would think that there are guys that are getting standard deviations at 3 ft./s every single day for years on end. And then you think you must be screwing something up.
I think we have a lot of selective attention to data and even more selection in reporting data here. Kind of like the “one quarter inch groups all day long” claim from the guy with a tactical rifle shooting off of bipod
I've never shot n570 I've always been close to try it but always decide not to because I hear how dirty it is how it eats throats a d the temp stable part is always hit or miss. Seems like some guys have good luck others not so much. I decided to stick with n565 and loose 100ft or so but dang is it stable and also trying n568 which in past the little I shot it in a different case was very stable ad well.
I believe N565 was the direct result of what VV liked about N560 and N570 and tried to combine those attributes into a more stable powder for military applications. I have seen less speed and more consistency with it then N570,
Has anyone shot enough n568 to know if it likes to deepthroat your shank like n570?
Last edited:
It's a shorter barrel so it may need a faster powder than Retumbo. And If I can get 2700-2750 out of it, I'll be happy. If what I have on hand doesn't give me what I want, that will be the next option.
N570 is the optimum powder for performance in the 300 NM but know the price to be paid. I would recommend cleaning at shorter intervals than you may be used to, it definitely seems to help with consistency.
They’re great groups and nobody should diminish that
It’s the “all day long” part we should be wary of
It’s the “all day long” part we should be wary of
Good day for sure, but nothing is ever “all day long”
@secondofangle2 i definitely never stated 1/4” all day long. I wouldn’t say all day long to 1 moa cause shit happens lol.
I know.
I also don’t post my shitty groups - it’s like posting pics of fat old women, nobody wants to see that shit
I also don’t post my shitty groups - it’s like posting pics of fat old women, nobody wants to see that shit
Last edited:
Oh I know you didn't, I was just clowning on previous comments about people saying stuff like that with nothing to back it up. I hope I can get close to your results when I get mine up and running
I get pressure signs at the berger starting load for 230g and h1000
so I spent a while on phone with berger today and thought I'd share, in context of posts above in this thread from this summer all the way back to 2017. (I only included a couple out of many)
the explanation they gave seems to be a big difference in case capacity between norma and lapua brass. berger data is based on quickload, not their own testing. the berger data presented so far in this thread was based on norma cases. I am using lapua and getting pressure. in another rifle, i used norma 300nm brass and did not get pressure so it makes sense to me so far. They reran the numbers using lapua brass in quickload for me and say the starting load is FIVE GRAINS lower. 76.1g H1000 for 230g and 215m primers.
I'm not sure that 100% explains my experience because I'm still getting pressure 3 grains before I get to their max load, but maybe that's a combination of the AI barrel being a couple inches longer, suppressed and perhaps tighter than the 26" quickload theoretical barrel.
FWIW my current load of 79.7g h1000 230g berg in lapua brass gives a very consistent 2914 fps in my axsr. with the new lapua-based data, the charge is in the middle of their range but still 120 fps over their max velocity of 2793
good luck
What crazy in my axsr anything near 3000 fps is a no go. Others that I know with same rifle, can exceed 3000 fps. But, mine can't. ie... bolt hard to open stuff like that.
Just trying to remember, about that ?. Cause it has been discussed before
Using my Lapua brass case capacity and other dimensions (103.84 gr of H2O), Im getting 83.7 gr of H1000 @2945 fps as max load and 97.4% fill, and 81.4 gr at 15% below max pressure 94.8% fill and 2865 fps.
I havent used H1000 before, and I typically see the larger magnums having more real world velocity than what I get in GRT, usually its within 20 fps for short action cartridges.
ETA: Playing around with seating depth, if I adjust COAL to 3.300" I get 80.7 gr as max, and 79.7gr at 2885fps and 6% below max pressure.
I havent used H1000 before, and I typically see the larger magnums having more real world velocity than what I get in GRT, usually its within 20 fps for short action cartridges.
ETA: Playing around with seating depth, if I adjust COAL to 3.300" I get 80.7 gr as max, and 79.7gr at 2885fps and 6% below max pressure.
Similar threads
