I'll add this too. I hope it's a different bullet design. I've always wanted to see hornady make a high BC BTHP bullet. Seen too many issues with plastic tip bullets.
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Create a channel Learn moreI don't believe it's a clone at all. All they did was rename the BTHP Match line and slapped a new BC number on all of them.
Clones compared to what though? Bergers? Sierra? Nosler?Per my long conversation with Hornady tech support today, they are clones as much as possible.
Thank you Hornady tech support!Go back and read my posts in this thread. I am not going to re write them for you because you are too lazy to read the thread. Your questions were answered on page 1.
No need to be a smartass because you were too dense to read what was laid out clearly in front of you. If you’ve ever looked at a Berger hybrid and a Hornady HPBT you would know they don’t look the same. Their profiles are obviously different. So unless Hornady is using Bergers or JLKs for there videos and images, it’s not the same bullet as a HPBT.Thank you Hornady tech support!
Then Kevin B. will copy it, secretly patent it, put it in his latest gun called the "Candy Mongoose" or some gay pride sounding shit, and dub the round the "8.6 Rainbow Warrior" and go around claiming he designed and developed it for the Special-Ed Ops Whiteout Diddy Missions and that he uses baby oil on the bullets before seating them...338 ARC
Because somehow I skipped over that information he posted earlier and I did not triple read every post. So my apologies for not reading every post. I mean he/she was playing middle man between hornady tech and here on the hide sooo is he/she not tech support? Are we supposed to take that word to the bank? Is there any validity to the statements made about the "color codes" ? I'm here for information and poking fun at the hornady marketing machine. Only time will tell i suppose.No need to be a smartass because you were too dense to read what was laid out clearly in front of you. If you’ve ever looked at a Berger hybrid and a Hornady HPBT you would know they don’t look the same. Their profiles are obviously different. So unless Hornady is using Bergers or JLKs for there videos and images, it’s not the same bullet as a HPBT.
There's plenty to go off of. Like the video which I also posted: "One thing we hear from a lot of shooters when we're out at competitions, we're out at the field, is availability of some of the very common hollow point boattail designs that are out there. A lot of shooters love these bullets. They have good aerodynamics, they shoot good groups. The problem is availability and getting enough of them of one lot to make it through a match, a life of a barrel, a couple years worth of supplies, so you don't have to keep changing your load. The arrow match line of bullets addresses all of those issues."Example 1:
View attachment 8525839
Example 2:
View attachment 8525841
I take that to mean a hpbt in a normal weight such as a 105 which basically everyone has.
I assumed they were going to be phasing out their old match line and replacing it with this for a few cents more, ala the atip>eld
Theres not exactly a lot to go off of there and they are pretty generic weights, such as are/have been made already by hornady before as well
View attachment 8525843
Don’t forget the 6mm boisWell, if this is going to be the price then I'm out. But this is Midway, so who knows.
View attachment 8526384
And if your assumption is true, that’s a hell of a way to commit market / marketing suicide. I guess I don’t believe in Hornady’s corporate greed as much as you.I could be totally wrong on my assumption but it looks like a very convenient way to boost your sales on a not so popular product line within the precision rifle community.
I mean it was kinda laughable when they announced the DVRT tips. I'm pretty agnostic when it comes to brands. I'm loyal to none.And if your assumption is true, that’s a hell of a way to commit market / marketing suicide. I guess I don’t believe in Hornady’s corporate greed as much as you.
The 107s have been pretty spotty this year.The only question i have is are there really shortages of the SMK bullets they are cloning? I'm not particularly interested in them but I feel like ive seen them available a lot. TMKs on the other hand.. lot harder to keep in stock.
They aren't as hard to find as others for sure. Makes me wonder if they weren't making them for OEM contracts for Black Hills or other manufacturers we don't know about yet and they had enough capacity to offer it to the public.The only question i have is are there really shortages of the SMK bullets they are cloning? I'm not particularly interested in them but I feel like ive seen them available a lot. TMKs on the other hand.. lot harder to keep in stock.
Also don't feel terribly bad for Henderson. Great company and a great product, but the biggest complaint about it is the lack of a micrometer adjustment. Looks like Hornady picked up on that and made some more minor improvements in their own design. If they're making it for not $700, it'll be a hit.
Hornady makes a 77gr bullet for AAC (Palmetto State). They also make the bullet for AAC's 168gr 308. And a 140 bthp 6.5 for them. I would be very surprised is these aren't the same as those. The BCs are a little different, but that could be measurement error.They aren't as hard to find as others for sure. Makes me wonder if they weren't making them for OEM contracts for Black Hills or other manufacturers we don't know about yet and they had enough capacity to offer it to the public.
Brunos has .22 69gr and 77gr TMK, 6.5mm 130gr and 140gr TMK and TGK in stock.The only question i have is are there really shortages of the SMK bullets they are cloning? I'm not particularly interested in them but I feel like ive seen them available a lot. TMKs on the other hand.. lot harder to keep in stock.
The 107s have been pretty spotty this year.
But I doubt they clone that bullet.
The 75g bthp isn't really .395 g1. Seems they weren't worried about correcting their existing inflated BCs when they got all serious about BCs with the intro of the ELD line. Apllied Ballistics says 0.348 G1 for the 75 bthp. It sounds like they were already making SMK clones for black hills and possibly others.Wait wut.... A brand new 77gr .224 bthp bullet with a .355 g1 bc when they already make a 75gr .224 bthp with a .395 g1. This makes absolutely no sense.
Interesting. The 140 BC is listed the same as the existing 140 bthp so I would guess that's what it is rather than a hybrid clone. The others may very well be SMK clones though.Hornady makes a 77gr bullet for AAC (Palmetto State). They also make the bullet for AAC's 168gr 308. And a 140 bthp 6.5 for them. I would be very surprised is these aren't the same as those. The BCs are a little different, but that could be measurement error.
I would agree since they are already cloning the 105 hybrid. I am a fan of 107s though.
The 75g bthp isn't really .395 g1. Seems they weren't worried about correcting their existing inflated BCs when they got all serious about BCs with the intro of the ELD line. Apllied Ballistics says 0.348 G1 for the 75 bthp. It sounds like they were already making SMK clones for black hills and possibly others.
Interesting. The 140 BC is listed the same as the existing 140 bthp so I would guess that's what it is rather than a hybrid clone. The others may very well be SMK clones though.
I know that the Aeromatch 140 is a 140 hybrid clone. I'm saying that the 140 BTHP that has been being used in loaded AAC 6.5 ammo and marked as a .580 G1 bc, is probably the existing hornady bthp that happens to have the same BC and not the new aeromatch bullet.The 140 is a hybrid per Hornady tech yesterday.
These prices I'm seeing aren't very good. Hopefully it is just some companies gouging for new product.
So, if I'm seeing this right, they are just popping out clones of SMK and Bergers now. Theory is that if you have difficulty finding what you want in stock, you just get an Aeromatch bullet and you can use your same load.
Super weird though.... I guess bullets aren't protected IP unless they are patented. Or maybe I'm misunderstanding this product.
AEROMATCH™ - Hornady Manufacturing, Inc
The new Aeromatch™ bullets feature the most popular match bullet profiles and weights from across the industry – now perfected and available from Hornadywww.hornady.com
Hornady’s sales model depends on flooding the market with less expensive and reasonably well performing products. They are good at it.
I actually don't hate Hornady, as much as I like to shit on the company.Hornady’s sales model depends on flooding the market with less expensive and reasonably well performing products. They are good at it.
Hornady (& Ruger) gave me the 204. For that I will be forever grateful! Love the hurt it puts on varmints man, I backflipsI actually don't hate Hornady, as much as I like to shit on the company.
Hornady is one of the few large companies in the firearms industry that has pushed the industry to increase/improve "mainstream" offerings to Fudds over the last decade. Companies like Federal, Sierra, RCBS, Lyman are (arguably) working to keep up, while companies like Lee, Winchester, etc. are stuck in the 90's. And then there's Remington.
IIRC Sierra was always making that bullet for Blackjack and then when they went tits up Sierra released it for them selvesSierra cloned the blackjack 131
Now we know you’ve never experienced the ease of finding an extremely accurate load with a smk and then given up after futile attempts with the eldm you speak of. Plus the smks don’t need a special magazine. If they thought for a second the eldms were a threat to the 77 smks, they wouldn’t have swallowed their pride and copied the smk.Wait wut.... A brand new 77gr .224 bthp bullet with a .355 g1 bc when they already make a 75gr .224 bthp with a .395 g1. This makes absolutely no sense.
Now we know you’ve never experienced the ease of finding an extremely accurate load with a smk and then given up after futile attempts with the eldm you speak of. Plus the smks don’t need a special magazine. If they thought for a second the eldms were a threat to the 77 smks, they wouldn’t have swallowed their pride and copied the smk.
Kudos to Hornady for setting ego aside and trying to provide a positive experience for the shooters while also improving their bottom line! If all companies operated in similar fashion, consumers would benefit greatly.
75 HPBT = a great option because it cost like $0.18 for practice ammo.Pretty sure he was talking about the 75gr BTHP that Hornady sells and loads in a lot of their 223/5.56 factory ammo:
It's a great bullet. Easy to tune, available with & without cannelure, and fits in an AR magazine just as easily as a 77 SMK. And is usually more available and cheaper than the 77 SMK. But it also doesn't have the crazy high BC of the 75 ELD.
Sierra did indeed make the bullet, but it was Blackjacks design. I shot several thousand of them. Sierra never filled contract orders for 2+ years and blackjack had to fold up. Low and behold sierra comes out with the exact same bullet in their own boxes. It's fd up. Very low dirty move.IIRC Sierra was always making that bullet for Blackjack and then when they went tits up Sierra released it for them selves
I dont shoot 25 cal, so have no dog in this fight, but if that is true its honestly messed up.Sierra did indeed make the bullet, but it was Blackjacks design. I shot several thousand of them. Sierra never filled contract orders for 2+ years and blackjack had to fold up. Low and behold sierra comes out with the exact same bullet in their own boxes. It's fd up. Very low dirty move.
Sierra probably did have issues producing bullet's during Covid I'm not sure, I'm sure Black Jack was aware of the supply issue but was still taking people's money and never refunded, which knowing that maybe there was an issue with Sierra getting paid as well?Sierra did indeed make the bullet, but it was Blackjacks design. I shot several thousand of them. Sierra never filled contract orders for 2+ years and blackjack had to fold up. Low and behold sierra comes out with the exact same bullet in their own boxes. It's fd up. Very low dirty move.
Two sides to every story. Don't just assume one side is the bad guy right from the get go.I dont shoot 25 cal, so have no dog in this fight, but if that is true its honestly messed up.