That would be epic. 6.5x47L is the superior cartridge anyway, and the 6.5mm master race.
Hornady is making knockoff/clone bullets (Aeromatch)
- Thread starter The_Steward
- Start date
I don't see Lapua dropping any lines of brass over this. Hornady doesn't profit when a rifle is chambered in their cartridge design, if that person buys some of their ammo they do but most people who are willing to spend the money on Lapua brass never fire a factory loaded round out of their rifle. I supposed it could prevent some of those people from buying Berger bullets but I just don't see it. If the Bergers are available I believe that shooter would still opt for the Berger over Hornady.
This out of place rant deserves a response with actual data in it. Notice that adjusted housing affordability doesn’t peak until about 2020. Huh! I wonder why that is? Boomers?Yep, It's a Boomer Fudd mentality. They are one huge reason our country is as fucked as it is today... "Piss away the future for a better today, we won't be around to see it..." And the whole, "I just don't understand why you can't live off of $50,000 a year and buy your own house, back in my day, I had a house, 3 kids, a wife who stayed at home with them, and did it all on $25,000 a year..."
In 1970 a house was like $35,000, a good new car was $5,000, and gas like $0.35 a gallon...And everything you own is paid for. But yeah, tell me again Pops how the average house in 2024 at $400,000 w/ interest rates in the double-digits, gas at $4.00 a gallon, and cars costing $75,000 average for a decent one maths out to $50,000 a year being "enough"...
And the same info from 1972 until today:
On the subject of this thread, I’m really enjoying the usual cluster “discussion”.
They may not make a direct profit from another company selling a rifle chambered in one of “their cartridges”, but they absolutely gain notoriety which is growth of their brand and will ultimately circle back to profits for their company.
It'd be a nice opportunity for them to ship over a product that's actually supposed to have lead in it, for a change.Also, in before Hornady moves production overseas and floods the market with chicom projectiles once they've run Berger and Sierra out of business.
Sounds like Amazon to me.
Their older van logo has a blue dick on it, minus the nut sack.
I interpret the logo as:
Screwing the world, from A-Z.
So who here is willing to spend the money and try the Berger clones?
I probably will.
I'm on the fence with how I view hornady as a company and I probably can't shoot the difference in a match setting.
Maybe I'll buy a box and split it up here on the PX.
I'm mentally preparing to get roasted
I'm on the fence with how I view hornady as a company and I probably can't shoot the difference in a match setting.
Maybe I'll buy a box and split it up here on the PX.
I'm mentally preparing to get roasted
Lapua dropping the Creedmoor would be completely insane. Talk about cutting off one's own nose....
Nosler has been cloning SMKs for what, almost 20 years now? It doesn't seem to have hurt Sierra much.
And I can't imagine the Berger and Sierra originals suddenly not selling and collecting dust in warehouses because of these Aeromatch bullets. Many of the shooters who've been willing to pay premium prices and deal with intermittent availability to shoot Hybrids (or SMKs) will still do so. I will.
But there have been times in the past 4 years when it was nearly impossible to get enough 6mm or 6.5mm Hybrids for a season without using a tool like Distill, unless you either knew someone with an inside track with Berger or were willing to place a backorder with a totally open ended fulfillment date (or often both). If the Hornady Aeromatch means I can easily buy 3-4k genuine Bergers of the same lot without having to go through the good-ole-boy network to do it, that alone will be a welcome change.
Nosler has been cloning SMKs for what, almost 20 years now? It doesn't seem to have hurt Sierra much.
And I can't imagine the Berger and Sierra originals suddenly not selling and collecting dust in warehouses because of these Aeromatch bullets. Many of the shooters who've been willing to pay premium prices and deal with intermittent availability to shoot Hybrids (or SMKs) will still do so. I will.
But there have been times in the past 4 years when it was nearly impossible to get enough 6mm or 6.5mm Hybrids for a season without using a tool like Distill, unless you either knew someone with an inside track with Berger or were willing to place a backorder with a totally open ended fulfillment date (or often both). If the Hornady Aeromatch means I can easily buy 3-4k genuine Bergers of the same lot without having to go through the good-ole-boy network to do it, that alone will be a welcome change.
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Boomers bought a few houses for seven strawberries and now have 3 million in equityThis out of place rant deserves a response with actual data in it. Notice that adjusted housing affordability doesn’t peak until about 2020. Huh! I wonder why that is? Boomers?
View attachment 8531932
And the same info from 1972 until today:
View attachment 8531933
On the subject of this thread, I’m really enjoying the usual cluster “discussion”.
And your point is? Isn’t that why anyone buys a house? Look at the charts. Houses are no more of a stretch financially today than they were back then.
I bought my first house in 1983 when interest rates were 18+ percent. I was a cabinetmaker at the time with 2yo twins, making poverty level wages. My house, insurance and taxes were more than half my wage, so I worked a second job.
What’s your excuse?
It was a joke but do you want my life story?
I was born into a family of poverty and drug abuse. Joined the military. Worked for several SOCOM units. Became a defense contractor with a $220k salary where $100k was tax free. I own my house. I made not excuses. I made a joke. Stop taking the internet so seriously. Everything doesn’t have to be a dick measuring contest.
This depends on where you live. Here in komifornia a shit box will cost you 800k. This means you need to be making 200k. Not too many making that kind of money.
That because good people have got to take back the shoebox from the current owners and make it worth staying there.
But the average income in 1975 was $7,650 or about $150 a week before taxes.
And the average house was like $35,000... And everything else was dirt cheap, other than maybe interest rates. People could live on a wage. 2024, unless you make over $100K a year, you can't.
Add a zero to both income and housing prices and the relationship is the same.
The difference in the 70’s was that most households had only 1 car, a tv with an antenna or maybe cable and a land line.
Now everyone has 2 cars a boat and or SxS, a cell phone for each member of the family and even the dog, cable, internet, streaming services and 50 subscriptions to whatever else their friends are spending money on.
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1975 - 3 channels over the air, no internet, no social media, no cell phones, houses smaller, houses simple - maybe no AC, cars much-much simpler, no Starbucks, fewer restaurants.
Today - houses huge and complicated, cars so complicated they are no longer reliable, people choose to pay $$ for everything including eating out every meal, paying $$ for coffee.
I am a "young" boomer with two grown kids. There is a huge difference in "choices" that drive up prices, cost of living, and inability to buy a house.
I will run any projectile that I can get at a better price that works and do not care the color of the box. Tired of chasing Hybrids so ran 115 DTACs for a season - missed plenty of targets but do not think I missed any because they were not in a yellow box.
The 134 ELDMs suck too - leave those alone and run the 133/135 yellow box please - I want the 134 ELDMs to stay available and reasonable $.
20% savings is not enough to interest me in shooting a inferior bullet. I started out shooting Hornady- and then tried some other brands. Changing nothing in my reloading process except brand of bullets resulted in considerable improvements- so don't even have to consider what I think of Hornady as a company or if this is a scummy move on their part. Not worth it to me.
I would be really curious to see the intra-lot tolerances and the inter-lot tolerances. From what I've seen in the Berger 105 HT's, I don't think Hornady can put out a truly similar product (dimensional consistency and structural consistency). Availability doesn't overcome the time-suck and headache that inconsistency causes.
I've been through a few barrels-worth of .264 ELD-M. Intra-lot weight dispersion was meh (~+/- 0.2gr), and base-to-ogive dispersion was loose (~+/- 0.005), but I managed it with manual sorting. Inter-lot weight dispersion was excessive (~+/- 1.5gr), exacerbated by even worse base-to-ogive dispersion (~+/- 0.0125", yes a 0.025" spread)
I moved to a 6 Dasher and swore I was done with Hornady and sorting, and went with Berger 105 HTs. Intra-lot dispersions are insanely tight (weight +/- 0.1gr & ogive +/- 0.001). I don't have any inter-lot data on-hand ATM.
As a cost benefit analysis, before tax+shipping the Hornady 105 Aeromatch's are going for around ~$0.42/rd, while the Bergers are ~$0.52/rd. At ~$0.10.rd difference, that's $100 difference per 1k projectiles.
The labor cost of sorting bullets is roughly 15sec/rd (7.5s/rd for weight sorting & 7.5s/rd for BTO sorting). Per 1k projectiles, that's 4+hrs of labor. I haven't even included the labor cost of storing & managing the sorted mini-lots.
YMMV but I'll gladly pay $100 to cut 4+hrs of mind-numbing QC work and planning out of my loading process.
I've been through a few barrels-worth of .264 ELD-M. Intra-lot weight dispersion was meh (~+/- 0.2gr), and base-to-ogive dispersion was loose (~+/- 0.005), but I managed it with manual sorting. Inter-lot weight dispersion was excessive (~+/- 1.5gr), exacerbated by even worse base-to-ogive dispersion (~+/- 0.0125", yes a 0.025" spread)
I moved to a 6 Dasher and swore I was done with Hornady and sorting, and went with Berger 105 HTs. Intra-lot dispersions are insanely tight (weight +/- 0.1gr & ogive +/- 0.001). I don't have any inter-lot data on-hand ATM.
As a cost benefit analysis, before tax+shipping the Hornady 105 Aeromatch's are going for around ~$0.42/rd, while the Bergers are ~$0.52/rd. At ~$0.10.rd difference, that's $100 difference per 1k projectiles.
The labor cost of sorting bullets is roughly 15sec/rd (7.5s/rd for weight sorting & 7.5s/rd for BTO sorting). Per 1k projectiles, that's 4+hrs of labor. I haven't even included the labor cost of storing & managing the sorted mini-lots.
YMMV but I'll gladly pay $100 to cut 4+hrs of mind-numbing QC work and planning out of my loading process.
I don't think you mean that. Up here in Canada it was either switch bullets or stop shooting.
If the Bergers are actually available to purchase I'd spend the extra but at the point of not being able to shoot I'll switch
Just because it didn’t happen to you doesn’t mean it can’t.
It was pretty impulsive. I'm guessing that if I weigh and measure them it'll be impulsive as well.
Well, someone has to do it. You might as well get started. lol
I can't remember, is 20 statistically significant?
Meplats actually look ok. They are in 100ct bags so I guess that's cool. Here's some numbers.
ETA: I just remembered I don't have a bushing for my 6GT die. I'll try to figure out a way to get one soon.
Also, my son has a Mule deer doe hunt coming up. More intrusive thoughts, I know.
The best ability, is availability.
Aeromatch will shoot 100% better than a bullet which is out of stock.
Aeromatch will shoot 100% better than a bullet which is out of stock.
Shut your whore euro trash mouth. .260 is the master race.
I just loaded up 30 of the 105's with 33.5gr of varget in the 6GT. I'll try to get out between work and sun down tomorrow.
Here it is. While the consistency may not be on par with berger, it seems like they did a pretty good copy of the profile. Group on the left was the 3 shots after zero at 25 yards.
Next (middle) was a standard 5 shot group before letting my son get some hits on steel and playing around at 300 yards.
Last was a group off the tripod. Of course I forgot to dial down again...
I think the people that are content with hornady consistency will be very happy with these bullets.
The barrel is a Green Mountain that I cut just to learn. So it's really nothing special. I didn't have time to put the magneto on so you'll have to guess how fast a 105 w/33.5gr of Varget is going.
A review of the 105 aeromatch vs the 105 hybrid is coming soon. Dimensional consistency first and then a large (300 shot combined) accuracy test once my gunsmith gets this next dasher barrel spun up.
First post with measurements between the two bullets is here: https://www.snipershide.com/shootin...match-part-1-dimensional-consistency.7239827/
First shots through a new barrel. The Horny Hybrid's seem to be shooting well in this 6mm BR.
Anyone know who the Aeromatch 6.5mm 140's are modeled after? Berger Hybrids? SMKs? Berger Elites?
105 Horny Hybrid's at 700, 11-11:30 wind at 13mph
If we're being honest, you don't hear that sentiment from guys who shoot yellow box. My money's on Berger.
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I can't speak for that guy but the difference between 109 Hyb and 115 DTAC is 50%. 20% is probably not enough to switch but 50% sure is. 80gr ELDM is 40% less than 80.5 Full Bore.
I like Berger but not that much. If the prices get closer together maybe I'll change my mind.
Take some measurements, especially across lot #'s. You might find out pretty quick why people shoot enough Bergers to keep them out of stock everywhere, and why other bullets are cheaper.
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I shoot plenty of Bergers to know what I'm getting.
I mean I shot up several hundred 215 Bergers and couldn’t get better than 3/4 MOA but switching to the 225 ELD-M immediately gave me 1/2 moa or better in my .300 Win Mag. I had a whole bunch of 153.5 Hybrids and 156 EOL for the 6.5 PRC but the 143gr ELD-X shot well enough that I sold all the Bergers and picked up the 143s at pretty much half the price.
The 130 OTMs for the Creedmoor are probably the next to go, just have to try the existing load with the 130 ELDMs to see how they shoot.
I've had it both ways. Some barrels shoot Bergers better, others have done better with the Hornady products.
Typically I'll try a Hornady bullet in every tube just to see if they work well. If they do...I'm saving money and using them.
*I'll also note here that I am not competing at 1K+ yards, where consistency is going to rear its ugly head. If I were a competitive shooter, my opinion would change.
Typically I'll try a Hornady bullet in every tube just to see if they work well. If they do...I'm saving money and using them.
*I'll also note here that I am not competing at 1K+ yards, where consistency is going to rear its ugly head. If I were a competitive shooter, my opinion would change.
I've shot plenty of Hornady and Sierras, and some hammered, some didn't. The major issue I have is the lot to lot consistency isn't there. The 75 ELDM's I shot for Tac division in PRS were pretty wild. Just the bullet diameters were .0004" different and resulted in 30 fps difference with the same load. I had similar issues with Sierra.
They look a little shorter and fatter than the 140 hybrids do from Berger. Maybe they copied the SMK? Either way Sunday I’m shooting them at 1000 yards and I’ll get some groups. At 100.
I’ll use my CCI 450 41.5 H4350 annealed starline load I have been having so much luck with and do a direct comparison out of my D5 pro. Hopefully they shoot
I’ll use my CCI 450 41.5 H4350 annealed starline load I have been having so much luck with and do a direct comparison out of my D5 pro. Hopefully they shoot
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