Hornady is making knockoff/clone bullets (Aeromatch)

[redneckbmxer24]

That would be epic. 6.5x47L is the superior cartridge anyway, and the 6.5mm master race.

 

[Taylorbok]

I don't see Lapua dropping any lines of brass over this. Hornady doesn't profit when a rifle is chambered in their cartridge design, if that person buys some of their ammo they do but most people who are willing to spend the money on Lapua brass never fire a factory loaded round out of their rifle. I supposed it could prevent some of those people from buying Berger bullets but I just don't see it. If the Bergers are available I believe that shooter would still opt for the Berger over Hornady.

 

[lash]

Yep, It's a Boomer Fudd mentality. They are one huge reason our country is as fucked as it is today... "Piss away the future for a better today, we won't be around to see it..." And the whole, "I just don't understand why you can't live off of $50,000 a year and buy your own house, back in my day, I had a house, 3 kids, a wife who stayed at home with them, and did it all on $25,000 a year..."

In 1970 a house was like $35,000, a good new car was $5,000, and gas like $0.35 a gallon...And everything you own is paid for. But yeah, tell me again Pops how the average house in 2024 at $400,000 w/ interest rates in the double-digits, gas at $4.00 a gallon, and cars costing $75,000 average for a decent one maths out to $50,000 a year being "enough"...

This out of place rant deserves a response with actual data in it. Notice that adjusted housing affordability doesn’t peak until about 2020. Huh! I wonder why that is? Boomers?

And the same info from 1972 until today:

On the subject of this thread, I’m really enjoying the usual cluster “discussion”.

 

[redneckbmxer24]

I don't see Lapua dropping any lines of brass over this. Hornady doesn't profit when a rifle is chambered in their cartridge design, if that person buys some of their ammo they do but most people who are willing to spend the money on Lapua brass never fire a factory loaded round out of their rifle. I supposed it could prevent some of those people from buying Berger bullets but I just don't see it. If the Bergers are available I believe that shooter would still opt for the Berger over Hornady.

They may not make a direct profit from another company selling a rifle chambered in one of “their cartridges”, but they absolutely gain notoriety which is growth of their brand and will ultimately circle back to profits for their company.

 

[Gtscotty]

Also, in before Hornady moves production overseas and floods the market with chicom projectiles once they've run Berger and Sierra out of business.

It'd be a nice opportunity for them to ship over a product that's actually supposed to have lead in it, for a change.

 

[Mike Casselton]

Its retarded and short sighted attitudes like this that have destroyed American small business.

Walmart comes into town, It tells a manufacture to sell me this at X price or I will go to china to have a clone made. So company sells to Walmart out of desperation. Meanwhile the mom and pop shops that dont give Billions to politicians so they can get huge tax breaks, economic tax credits and heavily regulated industries (regulations benefit large corps and kill small business) go out of business. walmart then decides to buy up company X and have their shit made in china instead to save $.001 per unit, putting American manufacturing out of business.

So you end up putting all the mom and pops out of business which means decent paying jobs as well as tax base goes down. Walmart doesnt pay shit in taxes and pays such low wages that their employees still get welfare which means the taxpayer is subsidizing walmart. But now we have less people paying taxes and more people receiving benefits. Then walmart decides to jack up the prices as they are the only game in town. There is no longer any competition because fucking morons who think this is capitalism (more like crony oligarchical capitalism where gains are privatized and losses are socialized). You cannot compete because its not a fair playing field and the barriers to entry make it impossible.

And at the end of the day, America withers away. Walmart will import their container ships full of Chinese dogshit each day because they have destroyed American industry and the middle class. Its why there are entire regions of the US that look like desolate post industrial waste lands. People all fucked up on any number of drugs, crime through he roof and costs skyrocketing all around you. And that is just one example.

People like you with that attitude are more dangerous and a greater enemy to our society than any communist or nazi in history. They are the enemy that destroys us from within.

Sounds like Amazon to me.

Their older van logo has a blue dick on it, minus the nut sack.

I interpret the logo as:
Screwing the world, from A-Z.

 

[Evintos]

So who here is willing to spend the money and try the Berger clones?

 

[Jackomason]

I probably will.

I'm on the fence with how I view hornady as a company and I probably can't shoot the difference in a match setting.

Maybe I'll buy a box and split it up here on the PX.

I'm mentally preparing to get roasted

 

[Tx_Aggie]

Lapua dropping the Creedmoor would be completely insane. Talk about cutting off one's own nose....

Nosler has been cloning SMKs for what, almost 20 years now? It doesn't seem to have hurt Sierra much.

And I can't imagine the Berger and Sierra originals suddenly not selling and collecting dust in warehouses because of these Aeromatch bullets. Many of the shooters who've been willing to pay premium prices and deal with intermittent availability to shoot Hybrids (or SMKs) will still do so. I will.

But there have been times in the past 4 years when it was nearly impossible to get enough 6mm or 6.5mm Hybrids for a season without using a tool like Distill, unless you either knew someone with an inside track with Berger or were willing to place a backorder with a totally open ended fulfillment date (or often both). If the Hornady Aeromatch means I can easily buy 3-4k genuine Bergers of the same lot without having to go through the good-ole-boy network to do it, that alone will be a welcome change.

 

[JB.IC]

This out of place rant deserves a response with actual data in it. Notice that adjusted housing affordability doesn’t peak until about 2020. Huh! I wonder why that is? Boomers?

View attachment 8531932

And the same info from 1972 until today:

View attachment 8531933

On the subject of this thread, I’m really enjoying the usual cluster “discussion”.

Boomers bought a few houses for seven strawberries and now have 3 million in equity

 

[lash]

Boomers bought a few houses for seven strawberries and now have 3 million in equity

And your point is? Isn’t that why anyone buys a house? Look at the charts. Houses are no more of a stretch financially today than they were back then.

I bought my first house in 1983 when interest rates were 18+ percent. I was a cabinetmaker at the time with 2yo twins, making poverty level wages. My house, insurance and taxes were more than half my wage, so I worked a second job.

What’s your excuse?

 

[JB.IC]

And your point is? Isn’t that why anyone buys a house? Look at the charts. Houses are no more of a stretch financially today than they were back then.

I bought my first house in 1983 when interest rates were 18+ percent. I was a cabinetmaker at the time with 2yo twins, making poverty level wages. My house, insurance and taxes were more than half my wage, so I worked a second job.

What’s your excuse?

It was a joke but do you want my life story?
I was born into a family of poverty and drug abuse. Joined the military. Worked for several SOCOM units. Became a defense contractor with a $220k salary where $100k was tax free. I own my house. I made not excuses. I made a joke. Stop taking the internet so seriously. Everything doesn’t have to be a dick measuring contest.

 

[Baron23]

 

[Im2bent]

And your point is? Isn’t that why anyone buys a house? Look at the charts. Houses are no more of a stretch financially today than they were back then.

This depends on where you live. Here in komifornia a shit box will cost you 800k. This means you need to be making 200k. Not too many making that kind of money.

 

[lash]

This depends on where you live. Here in komifornia a shit box will cost you 800k. This means you need to be making 200k. Not too many making that kind of money.

That because good people have got to take back the shoebox from the current owners and make it worth staying there.

 

[Thump_rrr]

True, but the median house’s equivalent wasn’t remotely near the $400,000 that it is today.

But the average income in 1975 was $7,650 or about $150 a week before taxes.

 

[FuhQ]

But the average income in 1975 was $7,650 or about $150 a week before taxes.

And the average house was like $35,000... And everything else was dirt cheap, other than maybe interest rates. People could live on a wage. 2024, unless you make over $100K a year, you can't.

 

[Thump_rrr]

And the average house was like $35,000... And everything else was dirt cheap, other than maybe interest rates. People could live on a wage. 2024, unless you make over $100K a year, you can't.

Add a zero to both income and housing prices and the relationship is the same.
The difference in the 70’s was that most households had only 1 car, a tv with an antenna or maybe cable and a land line.

Now everyone has 2 cars a boat and or SxS, a cell phone for each member of the family and even the dog, cable, internet, streaming services and 50 subscriptions to whatever else their friends are spending money on.

 

[Lightning8]

And the average house was like $35,000... And everything else was dirt cheap, other than maybe interest rates. People could live on a wage. 2024, unless you make over $100K a year, you can't.

1975 - 3 channels over the air, no internet, no social media, no cell phones, houses smaller, houses simple - maybe no AC, cars much-much simpler, no Starbucks, fewer restaurants.
Today - houses huge and complicated, cars so complicated they are no longer reliable, people choose to pay $$ for everything including eating out every meal, paying $$ for coffee.

I am a "young" boomer with two grown kids. There is a huge difference in "choices" that drive up prices, cost of living, and inability to buy a house.

I will run any projectile that I can get at a better price that works and do not care the color of the box. Tired of chasing Hybrids so ran 115 DTACs for a season - missed plenty of targets but do not think I missed any because they were not in a yellow box.

The 134 ELDMs suck too - leave those alone and run the 133/135 yellow box please - I want the 134 ELDMs to stay available and reasonable $.

 

[SmartDonkey]

20% savings is not enough to interest me in shooting a inferior bullet. I started out shooting Hornady- and then tried some other brands. Changing nothing in my reloading process except brand of bullets resulted in considerable improvements- so don't even have to consider what I think of Hornady as a company or if this is a scummy move on their part. Not worth it to me.

 

[LPO]

I would be really curious to see the intra-lot tolerances and the inter-lot tolerances. From what I've seen in the Berger 105 HT's, I don't think Hornady can put out a truly similar product (dimensional consistency and structural consistency). Availability doesn't overcome the time-suck and headache that inconsistency causes.

I've been through a few barrels-worth of .264 ELD-M. Intra-lot weight dispersion was meh (~+/- 0.2gr), and base-to-ogive dispersion was loose (~+/- 0.005), but I managed it with manual sorting. Inter-lot weight dispersion was excessive (~+/- 1.5gr), exacerbated by even worse base-to-ogive dispersion (~+/- 0.0125", yes a 0.025" spread)

I moved to a 6 Dasher and swore I was done with Hornady and sorting, and went with Berger 105 HTs. Intra-lot dispersions are insanely tight (weight +/- 0.1gr & ogive +/- 0.001). I don't have any inter-lot data on-hand ATM.

As a cost benefit analysis, before tax+shipping the Hornady 105 Aeromatch's are going for around ~$0.42/rd, while the Bergers are ~$0.52/rd. At ~$0.10.rd difference, that's $100 difference per 1k projectiles.

The labor cost of sorting bullets is roughly 15sec/rd (7.5s/rd for weight sorting & 7.5s/rd for BTO sorting). Per 1k projectiles, that's 4+hrs of labor. I haven't even included the labor cost of storing & managing the sorted mini-lots.

YMMV but I'll gladly pay $100 to cut 4+hrs of mind-numbing QC work and planning out of my loading process.

 

[Taylorbok]

Availability doesn't overcome the time-suck and headache that inconsistency causes.

I don't think you mean that. Up here in Canada it was either switch bullets or stop shooting.
If the Bergers are actually available to purchase I'd spend the extra but at the point of not being able to shoot I'll switch

 

[LPO]

I don't think you mean that. Up here in Canada it was either switch bullets or stop shooting.
If the Bergers are actually available to purchase I'd spend the extra but at the point of not being able to shoot I'll switch

Allow me to apologize. How very American of me to compare apples-to-apples, and here you come along begging for oranges to be included.

 

[Taylorbok]

Allow me to apologize. How very American of me to compare apples-to-apples, and here you come along begging for oranges to be included.

Just because it didn’t happen to you doesn’t mean it can’t.

 

[Jackomason]

I let my intrusive thoughts win.

 

[Im2bent]

I let my intrusive thoughts win.
View attachment 8546283

Sooooo are you going to start measuring and weighing or straight to targets?

 

[Jackomason]

It was pretty impulsive. I'm guessing that if I weigh and measure them it'll be impulsive as well.

 

[AllenOne1]

It was pretty impulsive. I'm guessing that if I weigh and measure them it'll be impulsive as well.

Well, someone has to do it. You might as well get started. lol

 

[Jackomason]

Well, someone has to do it. You might as well get started. lol

I can't remember, is 20 statistically significant?

Meplats actually look ok. They are in 100ct bags so I guess that's cool. Here's some numbers.

ETA: I just remembered I don't have a bushing for my 6GT die. I'll try to figure out a way to get one soon.

Also, my son has a Mule deer doe hunt coming up. More intrusive thoughts, I know.

 

[JR1200W3]

All yall bitching, I'm just over here like FLOOD the market with your overpriced knock offs BB LETS GO!!!
View attachment 8531405

That's a consumer of Chinese products talking! Hell yeah!

 

[Cameron Wilson]

The best ability, is availability.

Aeromatch will shoot 100% better than a bullet which is out of stock.

 

[zeroz]

That would be epic. 6.5x47L is the superior cartridge anyway, and the 6.5mm master race.

Shut your whore euro trash mouth. .260 is the master race.

 

[lash]

Shut your whore euro trash mouth. .260 is the master race.

 

[Jackomason]

I just loaded up 30 of the 105's with 33.5gr of varget in the 6GT. I'll try to get out between work and sun down tomorrow.

 

[Jackomason]

Here it is. While the consistency may not be on par with berger, it seems like they did a pretty good copy of the profile. Group on the left was the 3 shots after zero at 25 yards.

Next (middle) was a standard 5 shot group before letting my son get some hits on steel and playing around at 300 yards.

Last was a group off the tripod. Of course I forgot to dial down again...

I think the people that are content with hornady consistency will be very happy with these bullets.

The barrel is a Green Mountain that I cut just to learn. So it's really nothing special. I didn't have time to put the magneto on so you'll have to guess how fast a 105 w/33.5gr of Varget is going.