I didn’t say failures… I said their consistency sucks. Which it does. From box to box all from the same lot #, one box shot 1/2 MOA, the next box shot 1+ MOA. Same load, same rifle, same barrel, same scope, etc… Experienced the same with AMax’s years before that with my buddy’s .300WM.
What's funny is that Hornady could've spent more time, money and effort into improving the production methods for their own bullet designs and develop a reputation of consistently high quality with great design bullets like that of their yellow brand competitor. Instead they chose to spend the effort into making copies with unknown quality and consistency. Is Hornady even capable of maintaining Berger's J4 jacket level tolerances? I'm doubtful that they are.
I'm going to take a stab in the dark and say you shoot at least one Rem700 clone action? Imagine a grown man justifying a company ripping off another, then trying to pretend they’re helping the market, when it’s all about profits.ELD-M’s are not consistent (personal experience), and AMax’s were a failure…Which became the basis for the ELD series. A-Tips are expensive as fuck, And nobody in their right mind that shoots any sort of volume should be paying $1 per projo. I think Bergers over $0.50 is stupid, same for any bullet.
Imagine a grown man justifying a company ripping off another, then trying to pretend they’re helping the market, when it’s all about profits.
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A 700 clone is rarely a 1:1 copy... These bullets are supposedly (as claimed by Hornady) to be exact carbon copies of the originals. That's not quite the same thing as a guideline, that's blatantly ripping something off. But nice try.I
I'm going to take a stab in the dark and say you shoot at least one Rem700 clone action? Imagine a grown man justifying a company ripping off another, then trying to pretend they’re helping the market, when it’s all about profits.
Not to beat a dead horse, but I'm betting they were asked to make copies by an OEM rather than just deciding to themselves.
Considering the response by the Berger and Sierra on social media, probably not a request by the OEM (Berger and Sierra being the original). Even if I ignore the ethics and morality of the business decision, my thoughts on the product remains. Will this product have the same manufacturing tolerances that Berger has on their bullets, as in +/- 0.1gr in bullet weight, +/-0.0003 jacket thickness or will it have Hornady level acceptable variation?
. Didn't even know there was an availability problem with these.
I
I'm going to take a stab in the dark and say you shoot at least one Rem700 clone action? Imagine a grown man justifying a company ripping off another, then trying to pretend they’re helping the market, when it’s all about profits.
I currently have 77gr smks, 75gr bthps, and 75gr elds. I shoot the 75gr elds in my 223 bolt gun and 75gr bthps in my gas gun. The 77gr smks are more expensive, have a lower b.c., and don't really shoot any better at distance. So the 77gr smk copy with a lower b.c. still doesn't make any sense.
Hornady is known for copying other people's stuff. It's just their business model and culture. <shrug> Not my personal preference, but it's their model/culture, not mine.As far as "intellectual property" concerning bullet profiles... I couldn't say. I think the rule to avoid patent infringement is that there must be a 40% difference between two like items. How that 40% is quantified, I wouldn't have a clue.
But typically even if that design is patented, the patent is only good for 17 years or something... Case in point: generic Viagra.
So if there was a patent on the 168/175 SMK's it's probably been lapsed for a while. I'm surprised this hasn't been done sooner... Probably has. Consider some of the smaller manufacturers making "knock off" bullets.
I looked at the 30 Cal AeroMatch bullets the other day... The BC's seemed to be a bit lower than Sierra's... But that might be my memory failing.
Mike
This.
I'd imagine it takes longer than we think to get all the details ironed out and then machines set up to pump them out.
Their bullets suck. Hornady bullets are the one ones you will see consistently blowing up. Get her near or over 300k rpm and poof. And that doesn't even get into the bullet bc variance or the lot to lot issues.
Chinese, Russians, Iranians, even krogerbetans (that would be all powerful aliens from the planet Krogerber from the Andromeda galaxy) are all shaking in their boots and dreading the very moment that they might have to face a man or woman with one of the planet shattering AR15's.
Its retarded and short sighted attitudes like this that have destroyed American small business.
All I can say is that in Jonesboro, Louisiana, you have two choices, Walmart for groceries anything else you want and Brookshire's for groceries.
Yep, It's a Boomer Fudd mentality. They are one huge reason our country is as fucked as it is today... "Piss away the future for a better today, we won't be around to see it..." And the whole, "I just don't understand why you can't live off of $50,000 a year and buy your own house, back in my day, I had a house, 3 kids, a wife who stayed at home with them, and did it all on $25,000 a year..."
Yep, It's a Boomer Fudd mentality. They are one huge reason our country is as fucked as it is today... "Piss away the future for a better today, we won't be around to see it..." And the whole, "I just don't understand why you can't live off of $50,000 a year and buy your own house, back in my day, I had a house, 3 kids, a wife who stayed at home with them, and did it all on $25,000 a year..."
In 1970 a house was like $35,000, a good new car was $5,000, and gas like $0.35 a gallon...And everything you own is paid for. But yeah, tell me again Pops how the average house in 2024 at $400,000 w/ interest rates in the double-digits, gas at $4.00 a gallon, and cars costing $75,000 average for a decent one maths out to $50,000 a year being "enough"...
No, he's exactly right, and this word salad is wrong on many levels. Comparing Hornady to Walmart is the commercial equivalent of comparing any political group I don't like to Nazis, stupid.
You are forgetting that interest rates in the 70’s were between 7-13%.Yep, It's a Boomer Fudd mentality. They are one huge reason our country is as fucked as it is today... "Piss away the future for a better today, we won't be around to see it..." And the whole, "I just don't understand why you can't live off of $50,000 a year and buy your own house, back in my day, I had a house, 3 kids, a wife who stayed at home with them, and did it all on $25,000 a year..."
In 1970 a house was like $35,000, a good new car was $5,000, and gas like $0.35 a gallon...And everything you own is paid for. But yeah, tell me again Pops how the average house in 2024 at $400,000 w/ interest rates in the double-digits, gas at $4.00 a gallon, and cars costing $75,000 average for a decent one maths out to $50,000 a year being "enough"...
True, but the median house’s equivalent wasn’t remotely near the $400,000 that it is today.
*An* not *the*. I'm saying an ammo manufacturer asked them; not Berger and Sierra.Considering the response by the Berger and Sierra on social media, probably not a request by the OEM (Berger and Sierra being the original). Even if I ignore the ethics and morality of the business decision, my thoughts on the product remains. Will this product have the same manufacturing tolerances that Berger has on their bullets, as in +/- 0.1gr in bullet weight, +/-0.0003 jacket thickness or will it have Hornady level acceptable variation?
If it's Hornady level variation, then customers will remember why they went with Berger bullets in the first place.
If someone was to try to make the argument a pale imitation would be good for closer distance practice (<300yds), then my counter argument is, it's cheaper to just buy factory seconds bullets for around under $0.25 a round. The Aero Match isn't much cheaper than factory first originals and in the case of like the 175gr Aeromatch, preliminary pricing looks like it's the exact same price as the Sierra.
As for Hornady copying the Sierra 168 and 175 Matchkings... I've only seen them out of stock during the height of covid
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Also, in before Hornady moves production overseas and floods the market with chicom projectiles once they've run Berger and Sierra out of business.
