The war in Ukraine and Donbas

UKDslayer · 2024-11-20T12:56:32-0500

sloporsche said:
I think it would take weeks of build up not to mention trump would have to say OK

Probably more than weeks. Remember when 9/11 happened, the DOD had been preparing to go into Iraq and Afghanistan for many months if not longer. Outside of a few escapades by ODA, look how long the response to 9/11 took.
They really weren't expecting Trump to win, they really thought they could steal the whole shebang again. And they clearly have no intention of a peaceful transition of power.
Trump rebuilt the military only for it to be left behind/given away. This is all by design to make America weaker so we can fall quicker into the globalist serfdom state.

Lightning8 · 2024-11-20T12:56:57-0500

37L1 said:
At this rate, we are going to find out.

No we are not - NATO is "all hat, no cattle".

Lightning8 · 2024-11-20T12:57:53-0500

sloporsche said:
I think it would take weeks of build up not to mention trump would have to say OK

It would take years to get the abandoned equipment in mission capable status - if any more exists after what they gave to Ukraine

GreenGO Juan · 2024-11-20T13:12:35-0500

Terry Cross said:
Of that few, their readiness rate is prolly around 30-40%.

Even at that rate just European NATO's aircraft out number what Russia has up and capable.

The US Navy alone has a more powerful air force than the Russians do.

Count all the Euro Fighter, rafels, Gripens, F-15, 16, 18, 35, Support aircraft, Tankers, AWACS. just the ones operated by Europeans far out number Russia.

The Curve ball here is what does China do if shit pops off?

GreenGO Juan · 2024-11-20T13:20:17-0500

I'd also like to mention, Israeli F-35's just destroyed Iran's air defense capability in one night. Retaliation for the Ballistic missile attack. SEAD is what those things were designed to do.

Western Air Power is far advanced, we got a massive leg up during the 90's when Russia's economy tanked and they couldn't even pay their employees at MiG.

Airforce to airforce... they don't want none.

UKDslayer · 2024-11-20T13:43:50-0500

Former Acting AG Matthew Whitaker Tapped by President Trump as NATO Ambassador | The Gateway Pundit | by Jim Hᴏft

President Donald Trump announced Wednesday that Matthew G.

www.thegatewaypundit.com

Terry Cross · 2024-11-20T13:47:16-0500

GreenGO Juan said:
Even at that rate just European NATO's aircraft out number what Russia has up and capable.

The US Navy alone has a more powerful air force than the Russians do.

Count all the Euro Fighter, rafels, Gripens, F-15, 16, 18, 35, Support aircraft, Tankers, AWACS. just the ones operated by Europeans far out number Russia.

The Curve ball here is what does China do if shit pops off?

Understood and agree.

All the more reason we don't need to sit on our hands while the idiots in the room poke the bear.
If the Russians are outnumbered and their fighting capability degraded, they would be put in a corner.

If they attack the U.S. directly, I would be for an all out response.
However if they are fighting a war that is literally on their doorstep in order to maintain some type of security, I'm inclined to stay out of the fur ball.

I have zero doubt that Russia would unbox Sol if they thought there was a credible threat to their homeland. If the United States that I believed in and have allegiance to still exists, I think we should be helping calm the seas and make sure they are not threatened. We seem to be doing the exact opposite.

Lightning8 · 2024-11-20T13:56:16-0500

GreenGO Juan said:
Even at that rate just European NATO's aircraft out number what Russia has up and capable.

The US Navy alone has a more powerful air force than the Russians do.

Count all the Euro Fighter, rafels, Gripens, F-15, 16, 18, 35, Support aircraft, Tankers, AWACS. just the ones operated by Europeans far out number Russia.

The Curve ball here is what does China do if shit pops off?

Remember when the Europeans wanted to go after Libya with air strikes and the US said we are busy in Iraq and Afg? NATO minus US lasted about two days before the Europeans were begging US for support.

Where are you getting your data about this powerful NATO (European) air force (not counting US support aircraft, tankers, etc.)?

sloporsche · 2024-11-20T14:02:27-0500

more game changing weapons.....lmao

theLBC · 2024-11-20T14:23:12-0500

Edsel · 2024-11-20T14:30:59-0500

theLBC said:

Can I have just a few million from that tidy little sum?

Just a few?

GreenGO Juan · 2024-11-20T14:37:59-0500

Lightning8 said:
Remember when the Europeans wanted to go after Libya with air strikes and the US said we are busy in Iraq and Afg? NATO minus US lasted about two days before the Europeans were begging US for support.

Where are you getting your data about this powerful NATO (European) air force (not counting US support aircraft, tankers, etc.)?

What Strikes in Libya are you talking about, Serious question. The ones that resulted in Gaddafi getting a knife shoved up his ass hole?

Simple math, go count what each country has in active service and compare.

DIBBS · 2024-11-20T14:39:21-0500

FUCK UKRAINE and its kickback/money laundering operations, among other things.

for a few hundreds of billions of dollars more....

How broke is the USA now as a result of this bullshit. Are there figures published anywhere? Inquiring minds....

WAIT we'll just print more money.

sloporsche · 2024-11-20T14:43:57-0500

theLBC said:

this old coot is doing more damage in his last 2 months than his whole term

theLBC · 2024-11-20T14:45:07-0500

sloporsche said:
this old coot is doing more damage in his last 2 months than his whole term

pretty sure he knows nothing about it.

Edsel · 2024-11-20T14:57:10-0500

DIBBS said:
How broke is the USA now as a result of this bullshit.

WAIT we'll just print more money.

We can only get away with doing this while the U.S. dollar remains world's reserve currency and has sway over oil.

The French referred to this as the dollar's "exorbitant privilege."

The rest of the world is, quite simply put - sick and tired of American financial bullying and abuse, and will have us shitting BRICS.

That's when the real fun begins.

Imagine what a grand awakening we’ll have once it slaps us in the face - when we realize that the “American Standard of Living” simply isn’t possible in the absence of the above. That someone has to suffer under oir exploitation, while we live it up (which aligns with our “zero sum” mindset).

That’s right, Rube - eee - o.

Wake up and smell the roses.

232593 · 2024-11-20T15:53:53-0500

GreenGO Juan said:
Even at that rate just European NATO's aircraft out number what Russia has up and capable.

The US Navy alone has a more powerful air force than the Russians do.

Count all the Euro Fighter, rafels, Gripens, F-15, 16, 18, 35, Support aircraft, Tankers, AWACS. just the ones operated by Europeans far out number Russia.

The Curve ball here is what does China do if shit pops off?

Wondering if the Russian AF is capable of complex operations? Doesn’t seem to be.

Necessary 3vil · 2024-11-20T16:08:06-0500

theLBC said:
pretty sure he knows nothing about it.

Deranged old fuck won’t be happy until we’re ALL dead.

GreenGO Juan · 2024-11-20T16:09:05-0500

232593 said:
Wondering if the Russian AF is capable of complex operations? Doesn’t seem to be.

I don't believe so, or a least not to parity with western based forces.

Necessary 3vil · 2024-11-20T16:15:19-0500

UKDslayer · 2024-11-20T16:20:56-0500

Necessary 3vil said:

EPIC!

232593 · 2024-11-20T16:31:01-0500

GreenGO Juan said:
I don't believe so, or a least not to parity with western based forces.

It would also seem that they have difficulty prosecuting deep non-static targets as well. What I wonder is why? Is it a staff synchronization& collaboration issue? I’d love to be a fly on the wall in one of their Corps/Operational level CPs.

232593 · 2024-11-20T16:36:47-0500

GreenGO Juan said:
I'd also like to mention, Israeli F-35's just destroyed Iran's air defense capability in one night. Retaliation for the Ballistic missile attack. SEAD is what those things were designed to do.

Western Air Power is far advanced, we got a massive leg up during the 90's when Russia's economy tanked and they couldn't even pay their employees at MiG.

Airforce to airforce... they don't want none.

Isn’t SEAD, depending on targeted threat echelon, more of a Joint operation?

Edsel · 2024-11-20T16:53:25-0500

U.S.A.!

U.S.A.!

U.S.A.!

Darayavaus · 2024-11-20T16:55:51-0500

jhunter said:
When do we get the big reveal from Ukraine? You know, the part where they reveal what we get in return for all that we have done.

Blackrock owns everything of value in Ukraine now. You and me and the rest of us? We don't get shit.

GreenGO Juan · 2024-11-20T17:01:46-0500

232593 said:
It would also seem that they have difficulty prosecuting deep non-static targets as well. What I wonder is why? Is it a staff synchronization& collaboration issue? I’d love to be a fly on the wall in one of their Corps/Operational level CPs.

I believe it's not something they have had the time or resources to develop, doctrinal differences leading to a different approach have not had the same experience level of western forces. Where as the west had the time and the resources to develop precision munitions on a scale they have not.

232593 said:
Isn’t SEAD, depending on targeted threat echelon, more of a Joint operation?

As far as the tactic used to do it, I don't know, my knowledge just comes from my own curiosity and general observations. But from what I read, hear and see, that specific strike involved about 100 aircraft, destroyed multiple Iranian air defense assists opening a corridor to Iran which allowed targeted strikes on the manufacturing facilities that build them deep inside Irans territory by 4th gen platforms. EDIT( or thats what I have heard, again, IDK I could be very wrong)

Redlion · 2024-11-20T17:12:44-0500

Greenwald notes the accurate context of the recent decision to provide, launch, target and direct ATACMS missiles to hit targets inside Russia. This is not the U.S. providing Ukraine with weapons for use. This is the USA using the auspices of Ukraine geography to launch missiles into Russia that can only be launched, directed and targeted by U.S-NATO members.

Ukraine does not have the targeting systems or satellites to use these longer-range ATACM missiles for strikes into Russia. Ukraine is merely the launch geography for the U.S/NATO to launch missiles directly into Russia. President Vladimir Putin specifically said he has clear eyes on what this deployment means. WATCH:

On an ancillary note, having spent three months inside Russia this summer and having the associated contacts therein, the Russian government is currently in the process of shutting down their nation in preparation for what comes next. All of the previous rules and regulations for entry visas are essentially gone. You will not read this anywhere else, but I can assure you Russia is isolating in preparation for war. This is not a good sign at all.

Glenn Greenwald Outlines the Clear and Present Danger as Biden Administration Directly Attacks Russia

232593 · 2024-11-20T17:15:51-0500

GreenGO Juan said:
I don't think the Russians believe that the Trump Admin will bring a cession to hostilities by folding to their wants. Potentially the opposite and threatening the us of the actual US military to end this. IE, end it or I let the dogs loose.

Or at least that is how I see it. But thats just my opinion.

Which dogs?

These ones?

GreenGO Juan · 2024-11-20T17:24:03-0500

232593 said:
Which dogs?

These ones?
View attachment 8550601

sloporsche · 2024-11-20T17:50:24-0500

UKDslayer said:
I thought we've gone past land mines? Haven't we learned that lesson? Sheesh.

cheer them or fear them they have a place [pun] in the field

Terry Cross · 2024-11-20T17:57:28-0500

232593 said:
It would also seem that they have difficulty prosecuting deep non-static targets as well. What I wonder is why? Is it a staff synchronization& collaboration issue? I’d love to be a fly on the wall in one of their Corps/Operational level CPs.

Couple of thoughts and theories to ponder on this.

Question was posed above regarding the RU's ability to perform or sustain complex air ops.
I have no clue but even if they cannot, all they have to do to is deny us the support structures that we rely on. Russia and China have developed a pretty deep tool box of asymmetrical capabilities that allow them to neuter Billion dollar systems with Million dollar counter systems. That's not even getting into all the fuckery they can deal into our basic systems in CONUS.

Russian EW capabilities were already robust and they have only sharpened those skills in the last two years. They have managed to take an awful lot of Western military tech out of play. In fact, enough to render complete US systems useless in that theater of operations.

Something to think about regarding their technical and logistical abilities to serve complex target packages is that they may be holding a lot of cards close to their chest while using only what they need to grind down their current opponents.

We have so many intel gathering resources focused on that entire area, the Russians can't fart without the West knowing about it. Our ground, sea, air and space based systems are sponging up every signal and every pixel of data to sort through.

I think the Russians know that the Ukraine operation is not the same as an all out conflict with the West. While there is a shit ton of Western/NATO support, weapons and real time intel being fed into Ukraine, it is still not the same. I believe they would purposefully keep their upper tier systems on a leash and out of sight while still honing their more general systems and TTPs.

GreenGO Juan · 2024-11-20T18:49:39-0500

According to RTNews 5 of 6 Missiles were intercepted and one damaged hit the ground and caused a fire.

Kiev fires ATACMS missiles at Russia’s Bryansk Region – MOD

Ukraine has launched attacks deep inside Russia using ATACMS missiles donated by the US, the Russian Defense Ministry has confirmed

www.rt.com

Thats it.

This is worse than the Tyson/Paul fight.

theLBC · 2024-11-20T19:02:18-0500

GreenGO Juan said:
According to RTNews 5 of 6 Missiles were intercepted and one damaged hit the ground and caused a fire.

Kiev fires ATACMS missiles at Russia’s Bryansk Region – MOD

Ukraine has launched attacks deep inside Russia using ATACMS missiles donated by the US, the Russian Defense Ministry has confirmed

www.rt.com

Thats it.

This is worse than the Tyson/Paul fight.

not a great roi at ~$1.4 million a pop.

UKDslayer · 2024-11-20T19:07:40-0500

sloporsche said:
more game changing weapons.....lmao

They save their DEWs for use against us to steal land and resources.

UKDslayer · 2024-11-20T19:17:00-0500

Was announced today that Ukraine is going to get another 275M in weapons.

They have every intention racking up the US debt.

Redlion · 2024-11-20T19:34:49-0500

Not just US ATACS being used by Ukraine.

Ukrainians Shoot British-Made Storm Shadow Missiles into Russia’s Kursk Region (VIDEOS)

https://www.thegatewaypundit.com/2024/11/ww3-watch-one-day-after-first-us-made/

Eostech · 2024-11-20T19:59:31-0500

GreenGO Juan said:
Even at that rate just European NATO's aircraft out number what Russia has up and capable.

The US Navy alone has a more powerful air force than the Russians do.

Count all the Euro Fighter, rafels, Gripens, F-15, 16, 18, 35, Support aircraft, Tankers, AWACS. just the ones operated by Europeans far out number Russia.

The Curve ball here is what does China do if shit pops off?

Pity that aeroplanes have won no wars since their invention.

JAS-SH · 2024-11-20T19:59:39-0500

Not Biden, he's just a marionette. It's the people that pull his strings that are doing this!

The string pullers hate Trump - a peace president. They want to neuter Trump by dragging him into this mess they created for their benefit - warmongering hate for Russians, which bu the way, saved hundreds of thousands of American troops in WWII when they took the Reich head on on the eastern front. All being hopeful that they (the string pullers) can stay in power through the Trump presidency.

Not gonna happen. Russia is the biggest country on the planet with all the resources that comes with that. They are the patience bear. Push them hard enough and Russia wont stop at Germany this time as they did in WWII, they will take the whole of Europe. DO NOT poke the Bear! Russians are nice people that just want to go about their business....

GreenGO Juan · 2024-11-20T20:05:10-0500

Eostech said:
Pity that aeroplanes have won no wars since their invention.

You sure about that.

mosin46 · 2024-11-20T20:08:14-0500

i am and always have been in favor of letting russia do whatever it wants with ALL of europe. goes back to 1945. we rebuilt it for them and all europe has done for us is waste our treasure and cost us 1000s of lives. that so they can back stab us and get us to protect them for free. stalin was crazy enough to want it. somewhat doubt putin wants it all. 1000s of nucs everywhere makes a serious issue. asia and xi is a similar but different discussion.

theLBC · 2024-11-20T20:11:44-0500

Redlion said:
Not just US ATACS being used by Ukraine.

https://www.thegatewaypundit.com/2024/11/ww3-watch-one-day-after-first-us-made/

significant, but maybe not that much.
that announcement putin signed or whatever...says that the entire coalition is basically at war with russia if one of them attacks them.

GreenGO Juan · 2024-11-20T20:17:21-0500

Germany would likely have steam rolled Russia in WW2 if US had stayed out.

Once the Us army air core bombed their meth lab... it took the fight out of them.

last line is joking but not joking, we really did knock out their amphetamine production. From the air...

theLBC · 2024-11-20T20:20:59-0500

mosin46 · 2024-11-20T20:22:37-0500

GreenGO Juan said:
View attachment 8550709

You sure about that.

the war was already won. despite being maybe the toughest descision to make in the last 2K years,the nuc use was political. japan could have been totally quarantined (it almost was) with little or no loss of american lives. the fire bombing about had it made into ash. an invasion was not necessary. japan was just about out of fighters and had no gas to train new pilots. they could have been prevented from importing anything. the american people were tired of the war and wanted it over.
was a warning to stalin and an effort to keep him out of japan. we also didn't need him to join in against japan. that was roosevelt's doing mostly. red army over ran them in china in about 2 weeks as i recall.
the pacfic war was won by the USN with serious input from USAAF and the USMC,USA also.

JAS-SH · 2024-11-20T20:29:40-0500

GreenGO Juan said:
Germany would likely have steam rolled Russia in WW2 if US had stayed out.

Once the Us army air core bombed their meth lab... it took the fight out of them.

last line is joking but not joking, we really did knock out their amphetamine production. From the air...

Take a good look at this. You will need to expand the statistics to find us....

https://www.statista.com/statistics/1293510/second-world-war-fatalities-per-country/

GreenGO Juan · 2024-11-20T20:37:52-0500

mosin46 said:
the war was already won. despite being maybe the toughest descision to make in the last 2K years,the nuc use was political. japan could have been totally quarantined (it almost was) with little or no loss of american lives. the fire bombing about had it made into ash. an invasion was not necessary. japan was just about out of fighters and had no gas to train new pilots. they could have been prevented from importing anything. the american people were tired of the war and wanted it over.
was a warning to stalin and an effort to keep him out of japan. we also didn't need him to join in against japan. that was roosevelt's doing mostly. red army over ran them in china in about 2 weeks as i recall.
the pacfic war was won by the USN with serious input from USAAF and the USMC,USA also.

Have your read the Emporor of Japans speech he broadcast across the country, directly mentioning the Nukes? To pretend as though they were not a massive motivating factor is ignoring their importance.

Some thing along the lines of " the enemy has a new and most devastating weapon"

Another thing... How were all those fire bombings on Japan delivered. By air. How was that war started, Japan attacked pearl harbor... by air.

The OG comment was taking a shot at air power... Which has be a pivotal tool since its invention

How did the biggest attack state side happen? hijacked aircraft.

When ground troops get caught in serious shit. What do they call in? Air strikes.

Any way... Fuck Zelensky.

mosin46 · 2024-11-20T20:39:35-0500

GreenGO Juan said:
Germany would likely have steam rolled Russia in WW2 if US had stayed out.

Once the Us army air core bombed their meth lab... it took the fight out of them.

last line is joking but not joking, we really did knock out their amphetamine production. From the air...

yep. lend/lease was a game winner. but,a few changes in strategic and policy decisions and stalin would have been gone before lend/lease would have gotten launched. germans also did some boo boos in eastern and western europe as well. hubris like another country i could name.

GreenGO Juan · 2024-11-20T20:39:41-0500

JAS-SH said:
Take a good look at this. You will need to expand the statistics to find us....

https://www.statista.com/statistics/1293510/second-world-war-fatalities-per-country/

Yes I am aware of the Numbers. Germany was straight murdering commies.

sirhrmechanic · 2024-11-20T20:42:47-0500

Last month, I spent a couple of days at a conference with Mariana Budjaryn and we chatted a lot between sessions about her book and about Ukraine’s ability to reconstitute their nuclear capability.

Also about the roots of the conflict… and whether the NATO invitation precipitated the war…

I’d say that folks here should read her book because some of the assertions (including some of the things I took to be holy writ…) were not so clear as I thought.

Inheriting the Bomb: The Collapse of the USSR and the Nuclear Disarmament of Ukraine.

Probably the best book on the background of Ukraine’s nuclear disarmament during the breakup of the USSR… and the diplomatic, military and scientific fallout.

It also reads like a thriller.

Sirhr

GreenGO Juan · 2024-11-20T20:43:07-0500

mosin46 said:
yep. lend/lease was a game winner. but,a few changes in strategic and policy decisions and stalin would have been gone before lend/lease would have gotten launched. germans also did some boo boos in eastern and western europe as well. hubris like another country i could name.

Too had we not stopped them(Germany) in Africa and the Middle east they would have had all the fuel and access to raw materials they needed.

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The war in Ukraine and Donbas

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