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Night Vision Safran TAD
- Thread starter Dogtown
- Start date
The way thangs lookin these days, maybe a nuke blast rating would be good.
On second thoughts maybe a Horta Pee Test resistance rating would be good as well.
Hecque on third thoughts that might fix all its probems. Horta swears by it.
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My manual says "2m for 2 hours" in the back. Interesting that they'd nerf the specs from the social media claim.
*I just went and looked at it.
Absolutely.Yep, if it is down 2 meters in water for 2 hours that likely means you waz "kilt in da streets" and wont be needing it any more.
I am just looking for an excuse to snag an eCOTI honestly, but if the TAD is the best platform, then well, I hope they fix it soon because I am impulsive, lol!
Having had both side by side, the resolution difference may be there on paper, but I can't see it. The presets appear to be more or less identical, but the manual gain setting on the E-COTI are quite valuable in getting the cleanest image. In theory, the ATAK plug-in should go public soon, so things like route guidance will be there, if that's something you need.
Can you "feel" the extra heft of the eCOTI, or is that nonsense just lost in the mix?
The mounting method is a bit odd. I have PVS-14 style optics on my binos but it does stick out surprisingly far if I use the PVS-14 side of the mount ring. TNVC even commented on it when I sent them a pic. Then again if I put it on the PVS-15 side of the ring it sits closer and I can’t actually tell any significant difference in the thermal overlay (ie it still seems to sit properly on borders and edges).
Yes. Per the manual, for PVS-14 style optics you are supposed to mount the ring with the dovetail part sticking away from the user. If I do that it sticks out so damn far. Even if I mount the ring up on the lock ring instead, it sticks out like this:
If I flip the ring around, which the manual says is the PVS-15 mounting method, I can put it on the objective and it sits much nicer:
I sent TNVC a pic with it mounted farthest out which the manual says is correct, and it was so far out they were like “man that looks all wrong.” I’ve tried it in all three mount conditions and it doesn’t seem to make an enormous difference to the accuracy of the thermal overlay (ie size of objects or accuracy of edge marking). However, it doesn’t properly latch into the PVS-15 side of the mount, it needs about 0.5mm more travel to let the latch snap into its little groove. I even sent them a video of that issue. Safran is telling me they checked the ring and it is good, but I’m going to be pretty pissed if they send me back the same ring and it still has the same issue after I’ve shown it to them on video.
If I flip the ring around, which the manual says is the PVS-15 mounting method, I can put it on the objective and it sits much nicer:
I sent TNVC a pic with it mounted farthest out which the manual says is correct, and it was so far out they were like “man that looks all wrong.” I’ve tried it in all three mount conditions and it doesn’t seem to make an enormous difference to the accuracy of the thermal overlay (ie size of objects or accuracy of edge marking). However, it doesn’t properly latch into the PVS-15 side of the mount, it needs about 0.5mm more travel to let the latch snap into its little groove. I even sent them a video of that issue. Safran is telling me they checked the ring and it is good, but I’m going to be pretty pissed if they send me back the same ring and it still has the same issue after I’ve shown it to them on video.
So all COTI mounting brackets should be clamping onto the Infinity Stop Ring on your NV device. Also, it is prefered that the Infinity Stop Ring be a metal aluminum one instead of plastic. That away when you clamp the COTI mounting bracket on your NV device it is not "squeezing/crushing" your synthetic/plastic NV obective assembly.
Clamping the COTI mounting bracket onto the synthetic/plastic objective is really not the correct way to mount the bracket. You can do it in a pinch, but it potentially could result in some damage and will rotate your COTI if you change the focus on your NV device.
No matter how you mount the COTI on you NV device, I strongly recommend you have some sort of lanyard system on it so you do not loose it out in the field.
Clamping the COTI mounting bracket onto the synthetic/plastic objective is really not the correct way to mount the bracket. You can do it in a pinch, but it potentially could result in some damage and will rotate your COTI if you change the focus on your NV device.
No matter how you mount the COTI on you NV device, I strongly recommend you have some sort of lanyard system on it so you do not loose it out in the field.
"Yo dawg, I heard you liked bungy retention in your bungy retention..."
I will have to check when I get home from this business trip but IIRC the TAD manual says to put it on the objective, not the lock ring.
Rotating a COTI doesn’t matter other than the menu might be off kilter but it’s not like changing the focus on NV takes much movement.
Yes it will have a lanyard but I’m not putting a lanyard on and off when I am taking photos in my gun room for TNVC’s CS rep. Also the lanyard is for emergency retention, not to somehow make it ok that the device doesn’t latch into its primary mount.
I want to say something slick, but my US made uberkit's weak showing kinda slapped that smart out my mouth.
The bracket goes on the lock ring. The objective is not a suitable mounting point.
Supposedly this month they will have an update/solution.
Just another update, but here in the next week or two O1 should be requesting my device on an RMA. The software updates have supposedly addressed:
1) Power button failure to activate
2) Stray light pollution when adjusting offset to near distances.
3) Stuck/strobing menu
4) Auto-Cal polluting the image
O1 and TNVC have been excellent with comms and done everything in their power to make sure I'm happy while they are resolving this. Yes, it's egg on the face after how they pumped the TAD and O1's history with the very well sorted PAS29A and B, but mistakes happen, and what really has stood out is that noone tried to side-step this, blame the end user, or any shennanigans. The malfunctions were immediately owned and everything was done to try to fix the issue ASAP. To date, I am happy with TNVC and O1's response. All that's left is to fix the unit and return it to me shortly.
1) Power button failure to activate
2) Stray light pollution when adjusting offset to near distances.
3) Stuck/strobing menu
4) Auto-Cal polluting the image
O1 and TNVC have been excellent with comms and done everything in their power to make sure I'm happy while they are resolving this. Yes, it's egg on the face after how they pumped the TAD and O1's history with the very well sorted PAS29A and B, but mistakes happen, and what really has stood out is that noone tried to side-step this, blame the end user, or any shennanigans. The malfunctions were immediately owned and everything was done to try to fix the issue ASAP. To date, I am happy with TNVC and O1's response. All that's left is to fix the unit and return it to me shortly.
My CS rep has been good about updating me and has not sent the info above yet but happy to know they are making progress.
It's probably just because I'm more annoying.
Sorry for vanishing, wanted to get some time on the unit before posting back in here. @CoryT's sac lens holder plus a 20 x 5 mm germanium sac lens from OPFOR Night Solutions (https://nightsolutions.ca/pages/contact-us) does what I need it to do.
Just got back from a 40 hour airsoft event where I put the TAD to good use. A couple observations on functionality, both pros and cons:
- It does a phenomenal job of drawing your attention to things that would otherwise not be spotted. For example, I got eyes-on a sizable group of people moving 150 yards away through very heavy brush. No way I would've seen them without it.
- It is great for dealing with photonic barriers. I regularly spotted people in darkened doorways by their heat signature, where my unaided tube did not pick up their presence at all.
- It kinda sucks at picking people out from their surroundings, when their surroundings are at about the same temperature. I couldn't reliably spot people posted up on top of a shipping container, presumably because it was right after sunset and the metal was still warm from the sun. Not a TAD problem, more of a general thermal problem.
- It doesn't have the detail needed to PID people at range based on their equipment or weapon. Kinda obvious, magnification is needed for that even in daylight.
- It isn't a noise-free ECOTI. I had tons of background crap getting illuminated when I was at the front of a patrol. The fix was silly: just don't be at the front. The unit would re-calibrate based off the guy in front of me, which would minimize false positives in my field of view.
- For my use case, external power is mandatory. I ran it for a solid 16 hours this past weekend, and chewed through two Voltaic V25 battery packs. I'm sure the cold contributed to the energy consumption.
Insert "lol airsoft" comments below.
Yep, that's basically been my experience as well. Turning off AutoGain doesn't help as much as you would hope. Again, that's where the expanded image parameters of the E-COTI help vs "just presets" on the TAD. I was hoping for simple absolute min/max values so that you could set a really high floor value that would only light up the warmest objects.
Also, force on force is still force on force, whether you're shooting BBs, Simunition or MILES gear - it's real world practical use.
Yep, the problem often seen from some "Design Engineers" when coming out with different Generations of devices is somethimes they just change up some features that previously worked flawlessly such that they can simply say this is a "new improved" version and jack up the Ben Franklins.
A COTI is ment to perform one unique and simple task. Trying to make it a "multitool" can easily defeat the role it is supposed to serve.
That task is no thermal signature/clutter in your NV device until a live critter is in the viewing area. That algorithm is very specific and needs to be very fine tunable for all given emissivity conditions.
A COTI is ment to perform one unique and simple task. Trying to make it a "multitool" can easily defeat the role it is supposed to serve.
That task is no thermal signature/clutter in your NV device until a live critter is in the viewing area. That algorithm is very specific and needs to be very fine tunable for all given emissivity conditions.
Mine is in the mail as of today back from Safran. They confirm significant software upgrades were made. I agree with @JWG that this was an embarrassing episode for Safran, but I am also pleased to see that, for a military contractor, they have exceptional civilian-facing customer service. They worked with me to try to correct the problems remotely, and when that didn’t work, immediately brought the unit back, made no excuses for the issues the units were having, provided good updates during the long repair process, and answered questions honestly. I think future buyers of TADs will have a better product thanks to these updates, and will be happy with any support they need from Safran.
Can’t wait to have it back in hand to run it.
Can’t wait to have it back in hand to run it.
They have yet to ask for mine to be returned. I need to go be annoying.
I think he was the squeaky wheel guinea pig; I was told Optics1 has our info and they will handle comms, so hopefully we’ll hear something soon.
I've been nothing but pleased with how O1 has handled this. Frustrated ? Sure. But not with their response to the issues at hand.
This wheel squeaked. RMA should be going out this coming week, I was told.
My sources say it's just a quick reprogram, similar to how they work on my car or how I update my PC BIOS. No physical issues are denoted. So basically a reflashing and verify. As you note, defining and correcting the flaws was the time suck.
You know how much I complain about thermal noise? I’ve been running the TAD way too bright around 20-25 and it seems that just brings the levels up too much across the board. I just did an extended hike through the nature preserve near my house, and while I couldn’t get the White Hot | High Comtrast noise to fully go away, with the Arctic preset and Brightness 10, the TAD was much more useable. Moving through the woods, scanning, the trees and rocks were pretty subtle and dim, but the critters (mice, rabbits, deer) lit up plenty bright to isolate against the background. As soon as I looked up above the tree line everything lit up dull, which is still annoying. But I’m kicking myself now for apparently not testing the device in the lowest brightness settings.
Lesson learned.
Lesson learned.
25!? That's insane. I run mine on 10 on full moon nights, and 4-6 on half or less moon.
25 is nuts, I was running 12ish.
Mine arrived back from Optics1 this evening along with a trucker hat, multiple T-shirts, a bunch of stickers, and a branded pen, along with an updated user manual. Very impressed. Will try to run it soon and report back.
Mine arrived back from Optics1 this evening along with a trucker hat, multiple T-shirts, a bunch of stickers, and a branded pen, along with an updated user manual. Very impressed. Will try to run it soon and report back.
OK ran it for 10 minutes just now and the “light leak” is definitely gone. Will take longer to monitor for power or menu issues. It also seems that maybe the latency has improved slightly although that might be my imagination.
Yeah, isn’t it weird how the parameter range is 1-50, 25 is the default, and 8-12 is what people should be using?
I played with brightness early on, but was afraid I was getting too faint below 18 or so. What was different this time around was a couple of rabbits at the trailhead hiding out in the bushes. With the brightness way down and most of the environment faded away, I was started how bright those guys were. As I got further down the trail and continued messing with parameters, I instantly noticed three glowing deer heads staring at me. So clearly, even with brightness dialed way down, there is still a high ceiling for warm bodies.
Moral of the story: go find critters first
I ran mine maxed out at 50 for the above-mentioned event. It was the only way for the thermal overlay to overpower streetlights and the like.
Agree that running it way lower is sensible when you don't have to contend with man-made light sources.
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