6.5 Creedmoor
- Thread starter Sportin Wood
- Start date
I moved to 21st Century expander mandrels. Different size dies depending on case length and all the different mandrel sizes you could ever want. I have the mandrel holder base with both the long and short dies and three different sized mandrels for each caliber i shoot.
I also size using a bushing die and then follow-up with the mandrel of choice to set the desired neck tension. As long as my case is properly and fully seated in the case holder, i have not experienced any concentricity issues. I have a concentricity gauge to verify the cases are straight after sizing and after using the mandrel.
One thing to point out is that one may see a slight change in concentricity after full length sizing vs after using the mandrel. You will likely see this if the brass thickness around the neck is inconsistent. After full length sizing, pressure is put on the outside of the case neck resulting in a very consistent concentricity. However, after using a mandrel, and because the pressure for sizing is now coming from inside the neck, concentricity may be slightly different due the difference in brass thickness around the neck.
Having said that, if you are using good quality brass, this will be negligible.
I also size using a bushing die and then follow-up with the mandrel of choice to set the desired neck tension. As long as my case is properly and fully seated in the case holder, i have not experienced any concentricity issues. I have a concentricity gauge to verify the cases are straight after sizing and after using the mandrel.
One thing to point out is that one may see a slight change in concentricity after full length sizing vs after using the mandrel. You will likely see this if the brass thickness around the neck is inconsistent. After full length sizing, pressure is put on the outside of the case neck resulting in a very consistent concentricity. However, after using a mandrel, and because the pressure for sizing is now coming from inside the neck, concentricity may be slightly different due the difference in brass thickness around the neck.
Having said that, if you are using good quality brass, this will be negligible.
Oh and a couple of other quick points to consider:
- when checking for concentricity, be sure to check before bullet seating and after. When checking concentricity after seating the bullet, take your measurement on the bullet just beyond the case neck.
- When using a bushing die, be sure to use a bushing size that brings you as close as possible to the desired neck tension before using the mandrel. if you size the neck too much in the die/bushing, then the mandrel will be exercising the brass around the neck can be overworked. The mandrel should not require much effort.
Oh and dont forget to anneal ensuring that the neck sizing will hold with no bounce-back and brass life is increased.
i have found that this exercise around managing neck tension is, at least for me, the primary key for consistency and am a little passionate about it.
- when checking for concentricity, be sure to check before bullet seating and after. When checking concentricity after seating the bullet, take your measurement on the bullet just beyond the case neck.
- When using a bushing die, be sure to use a bushing size that brings you as close as possible to the desired neck tension before using the mandrel. if you size the neck too much in the die/bushing, then the mandrel will be exercising the brass around the neck can be overworked. The mandrel should not require much effort.
Oh and dont forget to anneal ensuring that the neck sizing will hold with no bounce-back and brass life is increased.
i have found that this exercise around managing neck tension is, at least for me, the primary key for consistency and am a little passionate about it.
There is no single silver bullet (pun intended) for everyone. You found a solution that works great for you and that is awesome.
For me, I am focused on precision long range and extreme long range where consistency matters most. SD is not my main concern. ES is my main concern because that is what i use to determine consistency. You can have an SD of 10 but an ES of 50. My goal is to get the ES as close to 10 as possible, or better.
I dont use expander balls primarily because they come in only one size where a mandrel comes in many sizes. A mandrel comes in very handy too for other reasons. For example, I have dropped a case or two during reloading resulting in the neck getting a flat spot that was quickly corrected by running it through the Mandrel die.
For me, I am focused on precision long range and extreme long range where consistency matters most. SD is not my main concern. ES is my main concern because that is what i use to determine consistency. You can have an SD of 10 but an ES of 50. My goal is to get the ES as close to 10 as possible, or better.
I dont use expander balls primarily because they come in only one size where a mandrel comes in many sizes. A mandrel comes in very handy too for other reasons. For example, I have dropped a case or two during reloading resulting in the neck getting a flat spot that was quickly corrected by running it through the Mandrel die.
You can without problem. I used those dies for years from 2008 when they were the only ones made. Very accurate ammo and good es/sd numbers also. If it works keep at it. I use Hornady brass and it gives me a perfect .002” of neck tension with them without the expander. With the expander I am betting you are close to it also with those brass brands as the ball keeps them the same.
I have a little different situation than some as I have thousands of pieces from factory ammo so I don’t go through firings as much as some who might buy 100-200 pieces and reload them over and over. So most of my brass now has about 4-5 firings on it. I did have one batch that I rotated over more that was at around 9 loadings and still going but I have set them aside for now.
Rob, since you have thousands of brass, can I assume there's a few different lots and not all one lot? If so, did each lot have its own load development and does each lot have its own load? Or were you able to do/use one same load development process and load?
Oh yeah they are all different lots over different years. I don’t separate them by that though. Just by firings. No problem using the same load with them that way. Only time I adjust is when I change powder lots.
I am the exact same way. Several lots just keep track of firing.
Ok, so long as it's the same headstamp, the same load will generally be fine without having to do new development all over again?
Got it! I've been reloading for about 6 to 7 months with fairly good success. However, it's good to know from more experienced reloaders that I could use same load on same headstamp brass in a pinch if I had to.
I can drive 8 minutes to local outdoor store, pick up a bag of 6.5 Creedmoor brass, come home and run case mouths over expander and chamfer, load 50 rounds of 143 ELD-X over 41.5 grains H4350, and shoot sub MOA with my 20" Tikka CTR. More than enough accuracy and precision for hunting deer out to 500 and shooting recreational steel out to 1K. I'll anneal the cases after every firing with my AMP and trim when necessary
Did you compare the MA unit to the Area 419 decapping die before you purchased the MA die?I bought a MA PUA decapper today. No Mtn Dew or socks though
Of course not
the Area 419 looks pretty slick though.
I put on my Mt. Dew mountbiking socks, poured up some XT (that's traditional Mt. Dew topped with Code Red or Voltage).I bought a MA PUA decapper today. No Mtn Dew or socks though
Then I ordered a new barrel for my RAP that has like 5k +rounds down the tube.
Then I put my IveyTron (Ivey base and Sightron 10-50 scope) from the 300PRC Pokemon Rifle to the Ruger RAP 6.5 in chassis. The thought here is that I can just swap the IveyTron back on the big rifle if I get a chance to shoot a mile this year.
Then I took the socks off but they will go back on when I make some rounds or process brass.
I will still be drinking Mt. Dew heavily. May even go for a glass of XTR today (that's traditional with both code red & voltage topper over ice).
Its snowing outside. I hate snow and cold weather.
Looking forward to spring and some more shooting this season.
Attachments
All this talk about Mt Dew brings me back to my younger days of riding my bike to Taco Bell for chicken quesadillas and Baja Blast. Much simpler times.
I’m also curious what that bolt looking thing is off the side of the optic.
It unlocks the base so you can dial mil adjustments into the base (instead of the scope), then locks it there.
I've been using MA decappers since 2018 (before they were spring-loaded), and know Wayne pretty well. He's a good dude. You'll like the springer cap, it works very well.I bought a MA PUA decapper today. No Mtn Dew or socks though
I guess I was saying with the SAC die I used to do things seperate but bought that and don’t anymore and it’s nice.
Its the Ivey Base: You can see more on Rumble in this vid - FF to about 2:50 in the vid
Figured I should actually add some load data. Playing around with some 123Gr Hornady STTs
Hornady brass
GM210M primer
Hornady STT 123 Gr
H4350 40.7 Gr
OAL - 2.710
FPS - 2688
SD - 8.2
Spread - 22.2
Probably spice it up next and then start adjusting OAL. Shot decent at 100. Just a stock Ruger American we won at some duck dinner I think.
Hornady brass
GM210M primer
Hornady STT 123 Gr
H4350 40.7 Gr
OAL - 2.710
FPS - 2688
SD - 8.2
Spread - 22.2
Probably spice it up next and then start adjusting OAL. Shot decent at 100. Just a stock Ruger American we won at some duck dinner I think.
Very light. The wife enjoyed shooting it. Have some worked up to 43gr for testing next time I’m out.
Does anyone have some load development for 153 A-tip using N555? Curious what charge weight and seating depth you are using. Vihtavouri doest list N555 load data for this bullet and I can't find it in any manual. Is it not a reccommended combo?
N555 is getting me some good results using Berger 153.5's @ 41gr and I was wondering if the same powder charge is safe to use with the A-tips.
N555 is getting me some good results using Berger 153.5's @ 41gr and I was wondering if the same powder charge is safe to use with the A-tips.
I've never used 153 A-tip, but I am curious what speed did you get with these 41gr N555 with 153.5?
I fill my Lapua case up to the neck with 45 grains of N555 and can only get 2700 fps for my 144 LRHT (CBTO-2.260), this is nearly the maximum I can get without compressing the powder... (24" stock Tikka T3x)
I am just starting load development on 135 a-tips, not the 153.
I am getting 2850 to 2910fps with 44.2gr -45.0gr of CFEBLK out of a 26" 6.5 cm.
.7 and .8 moa 5 shot groups at 100yds.
Need more testing for sure, but looks promising.
I am getting 2850 to 2910fps with 44.2gr -45.0gr of CFEBLK out of a 26" 6.5 cm.
.7 and .8 moa 5 shot groups at 100yds.
Need more testing for sure, but looks promising.
I'm using Peterson 6.5CM SRP brass, CCI BR-4, 41gr N555, CBTO 2.085 (80 thou off my lands w/ SAC comparator). It's getting me 2630fps out of my BAT Hammerhead with a 26" ACE barrel 1-7.5 twist.
It's better to decap first before anything, because it cleans the primer pockets during all the other processes (saves a step). So, I decap first, then US cleaner, dry, size, then polish. They look professional and better than new when I reload them. I take pride in my reloading, and I want my ammo to look as good as it is precise (my runout is usually 0.0005", and powder is within 0.05gr).
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I'm going to start testing 153's with StaBall, IMR4350 and H100V. I think 4831 would be a good powder but its hard to find and its expensive. If I cant go to the 153's I'll go back to the 144's. I just wish Berger pointed the tips from the factory like the SMK's
No it’s not. But you do what makes you happy.
I ran a small-scale mass production ammo plant for my local machine gun range, and they wanted me to decap after washing, as the first step in processing the brass (swaging, sizing, trimming, etc…), but before polishing. Wasn’t really a fan, because it retained some residual moisture after cleaning, and it didn’t clean the primer pockets. But like you said, personal preference.
I also decap first. I even do it on my pistol ammo which is a lot of brass. I’m fully aware it’s probably unnecessary but it’s such a fast easy step in my reloading and I also like those clean primer pockets. Disgustingly good looking reloaded ammo makes me happy and in my 30+ years of reloading my failure rate is zero so I like that.
Exactly, so why do you think it’s unnecessary to decap first with precision rifle brass? Don’t you want the cleanest primer pockets you can get for the most consistent primer seating depth and ignition?
