6.5 Creedmoor
- Thread starter Sportin Wood
- Start date
Hell no. 40 doesn’t tell you anything. It’s 4000 or it’s just noise and you are fooling yourself.
You know, being staff member and a moderator I would expect more of a mature approach. Sorry I threaten you so much, it was never my intent. Sorry Rob.
Last edited:
Lol threaten me? Lol Now that’s funny. How many times we have to have this conversation statically to prove that? Lol Far from threatened. More like amused.
Looking for some feedback on barnes 145gr match burners, looking for some heavier options, as 153gr bergers and 150gr smk’s seem impossible to find.
I’ve had good luck with 112gr matchburners in my gt, but havent seen much about the 145gr.
I’ve had good luck with 112gr matchburners in my gt, but havent seen much about the 145gr.
Just wondering, serious question: approx what pressure do you have your trigger set for with your competition rifle, assuming 6.5 CM?
I have been playing around with different springs and, so far, am liking a very light one. Do not know the pressure it works out to yet. Oh, and it’s the stock Tikka trigger.
I have been playing around with different springs and, so far, am liking a very light one. Do not know the pressure it works out to yet. Oh, and it’s the stock Tikka trigger.
The only help (or non-help) I can offer is I have never liked the Barnes bullets. Have had too many deer running when they would not with other bullets. The tipped partition style seem to work best for me and are, seemingly, more accurate but that is more of a subjective thing.
When I first tried the Nosler ballistic tip bullets I was sold on the style. They seem to open up and perform better than others of the time 90’s). I was shooting 30-06 at the time. I loaded 20 rounds for a friend and he was ecstatic after hunting with them. Loved their terminal ballistic performance.
I mostly shoot with ELD or Berger these days, 6.5 CM.
I tend to lean more towards bullets that are more likely to fragment than just hole makers like Barnes.
It’s really a personal choice though and I am absolutely certain others love them. Bottom line you just have to try them and choose for yourself.
I run a bix n andy 2 stage, around 5oz for the first stage then 14oz for the second.
Thanks! I am thinking I am around 8 Oz but need to verify that. I have a buddy who has the tool, just haven’t gotten around to it. If I am close to correct that puts me between your first and second break which is where I want to be.
I have used a 2 stage before on my 224 Valkyrie bolt gun. I liked that, and I thought I wouldn’t like the tikka one stage, but once I put a lighter spring in so it breaks at just barely more than a touch, I find the simplicity satisfying. It’s a personal thing, I am sure, but this is working for me.
What are you guys jumping 144 berger lrhr? I tried them at .060, .070, and .080, seemed to like the .070 best.
I loaded up a few hundred at .075 for a match, this winter i will mess around with the load. The larger jump would also give me more clearance in my mags.
Thanks you
136 rounds on the barrel and I am currently running 2,605 with 40.0. Where is everyone else running the 153.5?
Depending on what powder your using and if you end up with a barrel on the faster side once confirmed broken in you can get to the high 2,600 range. Anything above that with a 153 is probably a bit hot. Proceed slowly though from where your at cause you may already be there and just have a barrel that’s on the slower side.
Im loading Berger 144’s with Federal Match LRP and H4350. I recently switched barrels (barrel has around 200 or so on it at this point) so I worked up some loads to test. Previous barrel ran 41.5 at 2730 (high temps here in Las Vegas). Now, temp was around 35 degrees lower than previous load development and used a fresh batch of powder for this.
41.5 - 2702 fps
41.7 - 2691 fps
42.0 - 2680 fps
42.2 - 2736 fps
Grouping was significantly better at 42. My question is, what’s with the fluctuation up and down of velocity?
41.5 - 2702 fps
41.7 - 2691 fps
42.0 - 2680 fps
42.2 - 2736 fps
Grouping was significantly better at 42. My question is, what’s with the fluctuation up and down of velocity?
That sounds like a fun project! I built my 6.5 Creedmoor not too long ago and found that the 140 Berger VLD shot incredibly well for me—really tight groups at distance. I used H4831sc and it was a solid choice; just make sure you play around with your seating depth, as that can really tweak your accuracy. I'm curious to see how your loads turn out, especially with the mix you're considering!
Dispersion effect. Even 10 shots is insufficient (although much better than 3 or 5) for stable and accurate statistical analysis.
It’s like talking to 100 random people and using that data to predict an election.
Attachments
So are you saying the dispersion effect isn't real or that you would need to talk to 10 million people to have an accurate data sample that might predict an election?
Going back to this. Since groups at 42 were great compared to the rest, would you stick with this charge weight or drop down to 41.5 and play with seating depth?
I would go 41.5 and check out seating depth options. The powder is pretty stable, but your barrel is also pretty new.
That’s my opinion but all my experience the last few years have involved hBn which affects barrel friction (-) and mv (-) as well, but also allows for higher charges (+) to compensate re mv.
Bottom line is do what you think best as long as you don’t exceed your pressures and stay safe.
MY $ 0.02 worth is ; 3 , #5 shot groups after a proper barrel break in along with proper cleaning ,will pretty well determine what your gun likes and what it doesn't . Tweaking then becomes necessary for fine tuning and it's simply not just bullet depth . Longer the targets distance = as much consistent velocity one can safely muster . It also eats Leade's faster , make sure to inspect bore for carbon rings .
Most accurate loads falls below maximum velocity ,is the ass smacker to LRS .
Most accurate loads falls below maximum velocity ,is the ass smacker to LRS .
This is my recipe.
I have found N555 to be superior and hence, it is my choice for the 6.5 cm. I have just under 5 lbs.
I have also chosen 140 grain as my mass. I use bthp and eldm 140 grain bullets. I need more bullets.
I use Lapua brass. Need more of these also. I only have 200.
CCI BR2 primers are my choice. I have almost 3000 on hand.
43,5 grains of powder. COAL of 2.875.
I also use hBn as bullet coating. I find the ease of cleaning and the reduced wear in the barrel quite sexy.
I am currently experimenting with Gordon’s reloading software. I am not fully convinced it can predict harmonic nodes, at least with the data it has to do so. I think more details regarding the barrel is needed. It does, however, perform amazingly well regarding predicting pressures based on the inputs. I can verify points of overpressure, at least once I compensated for the hBn. There was precious little info on that subject.
For that reason, above, I tell others to start lower than my charge and work up, of course.
I have found N555 to be superior and hence, it is my choice for the 6.5 cm. I have just under 5 lbs.
I have also chosen 140 grain as my mass. I use bthp and eldm 140 grain bullets. I need more bullets.
I use Lapua brass. Need more of these also. I only have 200.
CCI BR2 primers are my choice. I have almost 3000 on hand.
43,5 grains of powder. COAL of 2.875.
I also use hBn as bullet coating. I find the ease of cleaning and the reduced wear in the barrel quite sexy.
I am currently experimenting with Gordon’s reloading software. I am not fully convinced it can predict harmonic nodes, at least with the data it has to do so. I think more details regarding the barrel is needed. It does, however, perform amazingly well regarding predicting pressures based on the inputs. I can verify points of overpressure, at least once I compensated for the hBn. There was precious little info on that subject.
For that reason, above, I tell others to start lower than my charge and work up, of course.
Interesting information.
I am currently working with a load for 140gr ELD-Ms in my 26" Savage.
42.4gr of H4350 and an oal of 2.810 gives me, averaged over 24 (loaded at different times) batches of 5 shot groups - 2842fps, an SD of 5.2, and an overall average of .6moa.
I am currently working with a load for 140gr ELD-Ms in my 26" Savage.
42.4gr of H4350 and an oal of 2.810 gives me, averaged over 24 (loaded at different times) batches of 5 shot groups - 2842fps, an SD of 5.2, and an overall average of .6moa.
Most excellent! And how did each batch of 5 shots relate individually? One good, another not so good, another kind of middling, that kind of comparison?
Well, yes.
Most, 21 batches, were very consistent at .4 to .5 moa. Actually had several "bug holes" but most were 5 shot clover leafs with all 5 touching.
The others bounced up a bit but we're all under 1 and there are many reasons for that, a little "sloppy" in my reloading sometimes, to much coffee that morning, and they were shot at different times on different days, etc.
But, very consistent when I did my part correctly.
And I suspect that they could have been better with a better shooter behind the trigger.
I make no claim at being a great shooter.
I did take Frank and Marc's class last summer.
And shooting 147gr ELD-Ms I learned how to hit 1000 and 1240 yds consistently, so maybe I'm not so bad.
Sounds good! The reason I asked is related to the dispersion pattern that results from shooting like 100 rounds (such as you did).Well, yes.
Most, 21 batches, were very consistent at .4 to .5 moa. Actually had several "bug holes" but most were 5 shot clover leafs with all 5 touching.
The others bounced up a bit but we're all under 1 and there are many reasons for that, a little "sloppy" in my reloading sometimes, to much coffee that morning, and they were shot at different times on different days, etc.
But, very consistent when I did my part correctly.
And I suspect that they could have been better with a better shooter behind the trigger.
I make no claim at being a great shooter.
I did take Frank and Marc's class last summer.
And shooting 147gr ELD-Ms I learned how to hit 1000 and 1240 yds consistently, so maybe I'm not so bad.
Essentially a cloud pattern where any 5 random from the pattern could be any group of 5.
Not sure I described that well… Based on your reply it sounds like what I would expect when I shoot, but I generally don’t shoot that many at the same time to compare, and I don’t really compare one trip to the next. I tinker with seating depth as part of my experimentation.
Thanks for the information!
Also: I would have to say you’re shooting pretty well. Most people can’t accomplish what you did. I have some wild tales from the range LOL
Factory Aero Solus barrels on Solus actions. Only one was bought a complete rifle, but I built the other after the factory .308 Win barrel wouldn't shoot consistently. They offered those contract overrun spiral-fluted 20" cerakoted barrels for like $200 shipped to your door, so I figured why the hell not? Worth a shot at that price. Turns out it was a really good decision.
Factory 22" Aero Solus Comp rifle...
Contract overrun 20" Aero/Stag (Ballistic Advantage) 6.5CM spiral-fluted barrel on a Solus action... Same load as above...
Factory 22" Aero Solus Comp rifle...
Contract overrun 20" Aero/Stag (Ballistic Advantage) 6.5CM spiral-fluted barrel on a Solus action... Same load as above...
What's your distance base to ogive at a COAL of 2.875? I use N555 as well but 43.5 seems pretty hot. I use 42.6 in Lapua brass with 140 ELDMs ay 2.200" base to ogive. Gives me 2730 in a 24" pipe and almost 2700 in an 18" pipe (which seems hot to me so will be working up a new load when I get that action back with a new barrel on it).
2.255 for the 140 ELDM.
Not so hot when you are coating bullets with hBn. However, I would always recommend starting low, of course. The reduction of friction also reduces mv and pressure. But also you can run more powder to get your mv back up there and still reap the benefits of reduced friction.
With hBn this is about 15% below max pressure. No pressure signs at all. I used Gordon’s reloading software to work out the pressures, along with several months of experimentation.
Attachments
On a 6.5 creed, 24" Douglas barrel, formed Alpha brass, federal small primers, Hornady 140 grainers, with 36.7gr of Varget I'm clocking 2612fps at around 50 degrees out. Is that on the slow side? Should I be expecting more from that?
That's really for a 6.5 CM with a 140 and that barrel length.
However, it's probably the right speed for that powder. Varget is faster burning than you'd want for a 140 in 6.5 CM so it's gonna reach pressure way before you reach desirable velocities.
You need to move to a slower burning powder like h4350, staball 6.5, or reloader 16 to get more speed.
If the load is accurate and supersonic out to the distances you want to shoot, it may be wide to just leave it as is.
It's very slow, especially for a 24" barrel. But that's Varget for you. Try StaBall 6.5 powder. With 140's in my 20" I'm averaging 2,780, and in my 22" I'm averaging 2,834, same exact load for each, just 2" different barrel length.
Ah ok. I ask because this rifle loves Varget, and it's temp stable. I know 4350 is as well, but for some reason this rifle doesn't like that powder, Groups tripled in size when I switched to that powder. Have no idea why.
I think you just answered your own question. Stable accurate results are what most of us look for. I run my pressures around 15% below max for safety, stability, and accuracy. It just works for me. I am not horribly intent on barnstorming MV’s. I don’t want to be too slow, but fast for fast sake is not a great target and usually puts people close to or over max. Then they have to deal with rapid wear on brass, barrels and nerves LOL
Could you imagine how beyond max one would have to be to get 2,834 out of a 22” barrel with 140s 
unless Ive always missed something which is surely possible
unless Ive always missed something which is surely possible
I get 2714 out of a 24.3” barrel using N555, hBn with 140 ELDM. That is a tad above my 15% below max pressure threshold.Could you imagine how beyond max one would have to be to get 2,834 out of a 22” barrel with 140s
Varget is stable-ish. H4350 is more than varget. But again, it won't matter much if 4350 can't group. I say just stick to your varget load.
The 4350 loads were 40.3-41.2 in .3 step increments.
Original loads when I first started loading for this last year were really low like 33.3-34.2 in .3 increments with varget and berger 140 VLDs loaded to 1.988 base to ogive with federal srp's, and no group would break .4", with the best being all 5 in one single hole. I then started experimenting with higher loads and she stayed under 7/8ths inch regardless of seating to mag length or long. (which Ive since abandoned single loading) Got to book max (berger book) and 36.7 shot pretty good but kind of slow so I thought I'd come here to see what everyone else was getting. The minute I started shooting 4350 the shot groups looked like I was patterning a duck gun. I was confounded to say the least. Though, I was using cci mag primers with this last load. Would that be why the groups tripled?
I don't think cci mag primers are the key factor. Unless the varget loads shoot great with a different primer and the h4350 loads shoot like crap with the cci mag.
If thats the case, you can try the same one with as the varget load to eliminate another component as the key factor of big groups.
Process of elimination.
But in general, those primers are usually good and shoot good groups, assuming everything else is up to par, i.e. the barrel, brass, bullet, chamber, crown, powder, etc.
I use Magnums on my creedmoor with h4350 and have good results.
Yea, that's what I have goin now; Just loaded some varget into the same cases/bullets but with the cci mag primers, and will load up some 4350 up torwards the book max but with the standard federal primers tomorrow and hopefully shoot them this weekend and see to eliminate a single attribute.
I know 4350's a favorite amongst the crowd but in my autotrickler v4, it meters like shit as some kernels are .02, .03, and .04 grains, and getting the charge weight exact is a GIGANTIC pain in the ass-plus with this stupid a&d scale sliding it's +/- .02 tolerance scale in the background, I'm sure I'm getting told my charge weight's right on, when it could be plus .02 on one throw and negative .02 on the other throw. For some reason Varget doesn't do that, and all I have to do is throw short, and add a kernel in to even it out as every kernel of varget's .02 consistently. It's SUPER easy and mindless, and I never get an odd guess by this scale. Saving for an ingenuity powder system with Sartorius for next season so I can put this silly shit to bed once and for all.
I know 4350's a favorite amongst the crowd but in my autotrickler v4, it meters like shit as some kernels are .02, .03, and .04 grains, and getting the charge weight exact is a GIGANTIC pain in the ass-plus with this stupid a&d scale sliding it's +/- .02 tolerance scale in the background, I'm sure I'm getting told my charge weight's right on, when it could be plus .02 on one throw and negative .02 on the other throw. For some reason Varget doesn't do that, and all I have to do is throw short, and add a kernel in to even it out as every kernel of varget's .02 consistently. It's SUPER easy and mindless, and I never get an odd guess by this scale. Saving for an ingenuity powder system with Sartorius for next season so I can put this silly shit to bed once and for all.
