Also I think this can tightened up my groups. Went from a consistent 3/4 moa to 3 5 shot groups under a 1/2 moa (last 5 I shot standing at a steel target)
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6.5 Creedmoor
- Thread starter Sportin Wood
- Start date
A decision based solely on 3, 4 or 5 shots is shaky at best. There is always a chance of randomness involved. If you shot 100 rounds (not suggesting you do, people lose their sht over this) you would have a scatter pattern. From that scatter pattern any 3 are possible combinations (or 5) which either looks really good, really bad, or an odd looking shot that seems to exist outside your pattern. That’s when people will say “I pulled that one” when it is just a part of the statistical possibilities.
Scientifically there is this: the more powder you use the faster the bullet will travel. The so called speed nodes are just another application of the below pic. Pick a safe charge (I usually go about 75% up from minimum towards maximum and that’s my chosen charge. I think there is an effect regarding vibration which I have been working on predicting using software and RL results but I have no conclusions yet for that.
Attachments
Bergara HMR is Rem 700 trigger compatible. I swapped out the trigger in my HMR for a TriggerTech. I'm very pleased. Since the Bergara has a separate bolt release, you would order the TriggerTech trigger without it. Remember, the trigger pins on the HMR are not straight. They are slightly cone-shape and are unidirectional. Also, the pins will usually not seat fully flush into the receiver. I would recommend you take note of the direction and orientation of the pins during removal...
Has anyone played with the 90gr Speer TNT? I really would like to keep the H4350 I have for my 6cm (PRS Setup). I was looking at BLC2 but I was curious if anyone has messed with it?
24"
CBTO 2.260
H4350 @ 42.5g
130 Berger AR OTM
Wolf LRM primers
Peterson brass
Avg MV 2847
7.7 mils to 1000 yards
CBTO 2.260
H4350 @ 42.5g
130 Berger AR OTM
Wolf LRM primers
Peterson brass
Avg MV 2847
7.7 mils to 1000 yards
Any EU based users who have experience reloading with Hornady ECX140gr bullets? Having problems through multiple loads to get consistent results (having 2-8MOA groups for 5 shots). Have tried 2 powders (VV N150 and N555), two primers, 3-4 different seating depths from 0.010" to 0.160" or so. All other bullets (ELDX, ELD, A-TIP, Lapua Scenars etc) shoot normal under or around 1MOA.
I use VV 540 and 555. I load for 140 gn Hornady bullets and have not experienced anything such as what you have. I have never loaded the ECX. I don’t know what to suggest except to not use that bullet. Sounds like for hunting you may want to stick to the 143.
Sorry I can’t help.
for anybody using the berger 153.5s in a 28" 65 ceeed? what speed does yours like to be run at in a 28" heavy contour? I was hoping to get 2750 but I was wondering what someone else has actually accomplished.
powders I have and want to try are H4350, N555, N560.
powders I have and want to try are H4350, N555, N560.
I’m running 153 ATIPS with H4350 in my 28” at 2680fps. I made it a little higher but shot best there.
Gonna try 130 AR hybrids at 14 thou off the lands on this new barrel. CBTO is 2.214 so I'll do 2.200 just to have a nice even number.
This bullet shouldn't be too particular on jump right?
Previous barrel I had it jumping 24 thou and shot great. This barrel is new so wondering where to start.
This bullet shouldn't be too particular on jump right?
Previous barrel I had it jumping 24 thou and shot great. This barrel is new so wondering where to start.
that's all I was after, thanks. confirmed my next project after my new 6 creed barrel gets toasted, probably just use the 143s or 140s or whatever they are I can't remember
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The 130 Berger AR hybrids in FGMM have shot lights fricken out for me. This is in an AT-X. Don't know about the particulars for load development but that bullet seems to flat out shoot.
It's a great little bullet.
Did really good in my old barrel with 42.5 of h4350.
Fuck it, I loaded one each starting at 41 and going up in .3 increments to 43.1.
Since I already had a bunch at 42.5 (but seated way longer for my previous barrel) I will try 5 of those at the new seating depth.
That is, if I don't get pressure signs before getting there.
I am using H4350 and StaBall 6.5 for my ELD-M 140 and ELD-M 147 in my 26" Savage.
140....42.4gr H4350 gives 2800 fps, 46.2gr StaBall gives 2930 fps. The StaBall is a bit hot, but no pressure signs. Both are giving sub moa groups.
147...StaBall 6.5 gives me 2760 fps and sub .5moa. I used these at a recent precision rifle course and was getting accurate and consistent hits on steel at 1240 yds.
140....42.4gr H4350 gives 2800 fps, 46.2gr StaBall gives 2930 fps. The StaBall is a bit hot, but no pressure signs. Both are giving sub moa groups.
147...StaBall 6.5 gives me 2760 fps and sub .5moa. I used these at a recent precision rifle course and was getting accurate and consistent hits on steel at 1240 yds.
Went out with my new barrel. Shot one of each just to get MVs. Since my previous barrel liked 42.5, I had a bunch loaded so i decided to take 5. Anybody care to share how I should proceed.
I was thinking for the first 200 rounds, just shoot a generic load of anywhere between 41.3 & 41.6.
Then fine tune or do load development then, once it has sped up already.
I was thinking for the first 200 rounds, just shoot a generic load of anywhere between 41.3 & 41.6.
Then fine tune or do load development then, once it has sped up already.
With a new barrel which should speed up at some point, your speeds are too high. I would drop down to 41.0 gr and see what it does. You may even need to drop down lower than that. JMHO The advice is free and worth just a little less than what you paid for it.
Yes that's fair. How much do they usually speed up in your experience? This is my first time ever doing a barrel swap so I'm not savvy in that regard.
These are 130s and not 140s though. Although it still might be a touch fast.
My previous barrel, which was the factory barrel, was at 2847 with 42.5.
It depends on the barrel I guess but I've seen 50-100 fps as they settle in. I had one that sped up and then slowed right back down. Hard to figure out where you're at when it does that.
I did think you were running 140's. I saw the 140 BTHP on the right side of your target and assumed they were all 140's. So the speeds aren't as hot as I thought. I still wouldn't push it too hard until I had a good feel for what the barrel was after.
2825 fps seems like a good targeted speed after the barrel speeds up. Maybe some 130 shooters will drop in and clarify that.
Yeah, the 140s were just hornady American Gunner factory ammo. It was one group I shot just to have a "control" I guess.
I really like the 130s at the 2850ish range but I do see people dip into the 2900s.
It should be noted too that I am doing this on a 24" barrel. I don't mind slowing down either.
I'll do a more refined load development once I meet the 200 round mark.
40.5g H4350, Lapua srp, Cci450 and Berger 140g Hybrids.
Has anyone switched from 140 ELD-M to 140 Hybrids? I'm shooting more F-class and my PRS load is 41.5 H4350 /2.800/140 ELD-M. When switching bullets do I need to do a whole workup again or is it safe to fiddle in the 40-42 grain region. Also do hybrids like to be "jumped" or "jammed" or where is a good starting point.
AT-X 6.5 Gen 1 chamber. Its pretty tight even after 1500+ rounds.
AT-X 6.5 Gen 1 chamber. Its pretty tight even after 1500+ rounds.
I just kept the same charge. Hybrids won’t care about jump. I do run mine long. COAL of 2.90
What is that? Different than SAAMI freebore?
I am sure the load will be close. I would drop to about 40.5 and work back up to see.
Just a really really tight chamber. I can never slide a bullet into fired brass and even after 5-6 firings, some brass can chamber after being fired. F-class is a rabbit hole so i know for reloading "Everything" counts*, i have to be much more rigorous than say my PRS or hunting load.
*except where it doesn't
I ended up throwing a random charge of 40.9 with once fired brass from my previous barrel. I headapaced this new barrel off full length sized 1x fired brass (with shoulder bumped 2thou) from previous barrel. Used the case as a go guage, and a case with tape on the case head as a no guage. It worked great.
This new charge of 40.9 on said brass, got me an avg of 2777.8 over 29 shots with an ES of 36.2 and an SD of 7.8 so I think it's going alright so far. Once I hit the 200 round mark, I'll do proper load development.
Looking for actual load info for 123 SMK , got both Hornady lrp and Lapua srp , both new brass, 26"tube.One manual lists about 38 Gn. of Varget as their accurate load , BUT, I doubt they actually have a test range like Sierra uses to test their bullets but use some computer program.
I just acquired a long range 6.5 CM outfit with a Rem 700 action that was trued and lapped and matched with a 30" Criterion barrel in a benchrest stock. He left me his reloading stuff as part of the deal with suggestions of H4350 in the 41s with 140 ELDms. But before I start to reload I shot the couple of boxes of match and hunting ammo he left me.
I have only reloaded 223 AI and 6mm BR before and only for 100 yard benchrest.
With the new Rem 700, I got about 1 to 1 inch groups at 100 yards with the Federal NonTypical Whitetail with an average velocity of 2815 fps.
With the Hornady Match 140 ELDMs I got a mix of 0.3 to 0.7 inch groups ( some 3x and 5x after sighter) and a chrono of 2830, SD of 14 for 16 shots.
Obviously the high speeds are because of the long barrel. How should that cause me to adjust my expectations for loading 140 ELDMs. Same or similar with home reloads or am I better off finding a lower node than the high 41-42 grain loads since there is speed to burn?
After I get used to the gun at 100, I'm going to plan a drive to a range where I can try shooting from 300 to 1000 but that's a long drive from here. Otherwise I'm waiting to be admitted to a club with a 300 yard range.
Helpful comments for a 6.5 newbie are welcome.
PS. I put on an Athlon Ares scope that goes to 27x, which I'm told as enough but seems low to me given I've mostly shot 45x or 50x scopes at 50 to 100.
I have only reloaded 223 AI and 6mm BR before and only for 100 yard benchrest.
With the new Rem 700, I got about 1 to 1 inch groups at 100 yards with the Federal NonTypical Whitetail with an average velocity of 2815 fps.
With the Hornady Match 140 ELDMs I got a mix of 0.3 to 0.7 inch groups ( some 3x and 5x after sighter) and a chrono of 2830, SD of 14 for 16 shots.
Obviously the high speeds are because of the long barrel. How should that cause me to adjust my expectations for loading 140 ELDMs. Same or similar with home reloads or am I better off finding a lower node than the high 41-42 grain loads since there is speed to burn?
After I get used to the gun at 100, I'm going to plan a drive to a range where I can try shooting from 300 to 1000 but that's a long drive from here. Otherwise I'm waiting to be admitted to a club with a 300 yard range.
Helpful comments for a 6.5 newbie are welcome.
PS. I put on an Athlon Ares scope that goes to 27x, which I'm told as enough but seems low to me given I've mostly shot 45x or 50x scopes at 50 to 100.
100GR ELD-VT
Starline SRP Brass
CCI 450 Primers
42.3gr Varget
2.750 COAL
3250 FPS out of my Delta 5 Pro. Excellent out to 1200 yards. did get blown around by the wind some but not nearly as bad as I was expecting it to. outperformed my 120gr, 130, and 140gr ELDMs
Starline SRP Brass
CCI 450 Primers
42.3gr Varget
2.750 COAL
3250 FPS out of my Delta 5 Pro. Excellent out to 1200 yards. did get blown around by the wind some but not nearly as bad as I was expecting it to. outperformed my 120gr, 130, and 140gr ELDMs
Outperformed in what way? I am curious, have never shot anything below 123 grains, 6.5 cm.
And that’s an amazing muzzle velocity!
I made more impacts at every distance with the ELDVT. It didn’t seem to be as sporadic in the wind as the other bulletsOutperformed in what way? I am curious, have never shot anything below 123 grains, 6.5 cm.
And that’s an amazing muzzle velocity!
Thanks! It seems unimaginable that they would perform better than the heavier and higher ballistic coefficient ELDX and ELDM bullets.
I see time spent today looking into this.
Awesome, and thanks!!
I believe the Mr. Kraft had a video or article on this topic and had a similar conclusion. That or I'm an idiot and i am certain someone on here will let me know that I am wrong.
Wind vs. Time
140 eldm @2750 vs 100 eldvt @3250
Wind has about 15% less time to act on the faster bullet.
No doubt the high muzzle velocity makes up for some of the lack of mass. That MV is just insanely impressive.
I have been using the 123 ELDM as my light bullet option. I may have to switch.
I have read several books on ballistics, and normally (as I recall… but I am old and my memory not so great) that the greater mass, with all else being equal, more than makes up for the reduced speed. Momentum is a function of speed and mass if the environmental conditions are the same.
I love it when I run across stuff like this. It is a new opportunity to learn!!
I noticed that the ELDM 100 gr bullet is actually a lower BC than the ELDVT. That’s interesting. There is a fair difference, more than I would have expected. Will post the outcome of my research later today or tomorrow.
My curiosity has definitely been piqued lol
Kinda reminds me of the Hornady podcast that I believe was called your groups don’t mean shit, or something like that.
Speaking of load development. Anyone had even a sniff of good luck with the 150smk in 6.5 creed? I’m about to give up trying. 77tmk In Valkyrie bolt gun is stupid accurate but these 150s are playing hard to get
Your groups are too small lol. I actually liked them, there were 2 of those, and they are dead on.
I haven’t messed with them at all. I am a fan of Berger when I can get them and ELD when I can’t.
Make sure you get enough as you have to shoot a 4000 shot groups to prove they are accurate. Lol
