That’s a great group. Probably quarter-inch or less if you measure center to center.
Lots of people run 245 Bergers with 85gr of N570. I'd back it off and start at about 80
For 215s N570 isn't ideal but still pretty good
N565 is a better choice, from my experience
You could use N560, but I think it's a little too fast
For the 245s and 250s, I've been using N170 and N570, both within the 84-85gr zone
N565 is a better choice, from my experience
You could use N560, but I think it's a little too fast
For the 245s and 250s, I've been using N170 and N570, both within the 84-85gr zone
Just finished development of my new 300 Norma Magnum load. Average 2760 fps, ES 15, SD 5 over 30 shots. Confirmed in weather 30-45 degrees at 4k elevation. Barrel is a 8 twist 27in Bartlein on an AXSR with TBAC SR brake.
245 Berger LRHT
77.6 Hodgdon H1000
Federal 210 primers
Lapua brass
Jump is .02
Pic shows 10 shots at 100 yards.
245 Berger LRHT
77.6 Hodgdon H1000
Federal 210 primers
Lapua brass
Jump is .02
Pic shows 10 shots at 100 yards.
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Been shooting 245g LRHT and they are awesome. Shooting a few fps over max velocity but 5 grains under max charge at 75.04g h1000 according to data Berger emailed to me:
On nov 13-16 I shot
2719,2721,2716,2714,2712
2714,2717,2720,2719,2714
2715,2717,2717,2719,2713
The first and third row were new lapua brass and the middle was with 4x fired then annealed brass.
Single digit ES for the 15 rounds
6 more rounds shooting with thermal on the 17th stretched the range 2 FPS lower and 1 fps higher for a 12 fps ES over 21 rounds.
2710,2719,2722,2711,2715,2719
The garmin avg for groups on those two days were
2716.4
2716.8
2716.2
2715.7
2715.4
2716.6
At the end of that, I had 313 rounds on barrel and 68 since the last cleaning.
AI makes a decent axsr barrel. My groups are bigger than moaorbust but not too much bigger and I’m also shooting Tbac 338Ultra gen2 SR. But 215m instead of 210. And my temps were in 60s.
On nov 13-16 I shot
2719,2721,2716,2714,2712
2714,2717,2720,2719,2714
2715,2717,2717,2719,2713
The first and third row were new lapua brass and the middle was with 4x fired then annealed brass.
Single digit ES for the 15 rounds
6 more rounds shooting with thermal on the 17th stretched the range 2 FPS lower and 1 fps higher for a 12 fps ES over 21 rounds.
2710,2719,2722,2711,2715,2719
The garmin avg for groups on those two days were
2716.4
2716.8
2716.2
2715.7
2715.4
2716.6
At the end of that, I had 313 rounds on barrel and 68 since the last cleaning.
AI makes a decent axsr barrel. My groups are bigger than moaorbust but not too much bigger and I’m also shooting Tbac 338Ultra gen2 SR. But 215m instead of 210. And my temps were in 60s.
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The load was chosen based on performance and pressure. I started testing a grain below RCBS suggested max and went up looking for pressure warning signs. Box 1 was 73 up to 82 in .5 increments and found several loads worth exploring further. Many loads had great numbers but bad groups. For box 2 I took the last results and made the increments .25 which shrunk choices to only a couple. Box 3 was the final test so I needed a larger sample size of 25 each. 150 total rounds.
Well, the ES and SD are hard to argue with, but I have the same rifle/barrel (but with an Ultra 338 Gen 1 on the end). I haven't shot the 245s yet, but the factory Berger 230 load was right at 3000fps to begin with. Later lots have been around 2940 avg. All to say, 2760 seems awful slow, but I haven't hand loaded for it yet. My loads in the 27" AXSR 300PRC are 78.1gr Retumbo running 2895 with a 230 Berger, and the 338NM (same case as the 300NM) with 88.1gr Retumbo running a 300gr Berger at 2742. Accuracy is similar to yours with all of the above. Also, it is true that Retumbo gives better velocities with the heavier bullets than H1000, so there's that too. And, you are doing better on MV than their data for the 245 shows, even at that load. I will be developing a 245 Berger/Retumbo load for the 300NM soon, but based on how it shot the factory loaded 230s near 3000, I'm hoping for something around 2900 for the 245s.
All great decisions, and with that ES and SD you are way ahead of the game vs a higher MV at their expense. I was just surprised you got into pressure at that MV. I may be seeing the same thing when I get there shortly. I was just extrapolating from what I got out of the 230s.
.300NM north of 3,000 fps with 250's.
Lapua cases, AMP annealed after every firing; Hendersen Gen 2 trim case to spec length & chamfer neck; CCI LRM primers set with Primal Rights CPS; Hornady One-Shot case lube; L.E. Wilson FL resizing die: shoulder set back 0.001", .335" neck bushing, N170, 250 A-Tip with neck area sprayed with One-Shot, seated at 0.020" from lands; 32" barrel, 1:8 twist rate; TBAC .338 Ultra Gen 2.
At 70F ambient / 500' elevation performance typically ranges from 3,025 fps (5.3 SD) to 3,045 fps (7.7 SD) [five round samples], with "bugholes" groups at 100 yards. Sub-MOA groups on 18" diameter steel at 1,760 yards. Primer pockets remain intact, no indications of any over-pressure (i.e. no bolt lift resistance, no "clickers").
Looking forward to Area 419 producing .300NM insert sleeve for their "M" series die, hopefully early 2025. We already have the "M" die for my wife's .300 PRC, and the precision and ease with which desired shoulder set back can be acheived, coupled with true full-length resizing and neck mandrel, justifies the up-front investment . No clickers, no bolt lift resistance.
We've set aside the N570 (nearly 16# on hand) and have formulated combinations using N170 that allow significantly increased barrel life while preserving case condition.
Lapua cases, AMP annealed after every firing; Hendersen Gen 2 trim case to spec length & chamfer neck; CCI LRM primers set with Primal Rights CPS; Hornady One-Shot case lube; L.E. Wilson FL resizing die: shoulder set back 0.001", .335" neck bushing, N170, 250 A-Tip with neck area sprayed with One-Shot, seated at 0.020" from lands; 32" barrel, 1:8 twist rate; TBAC .338 Ultra Gen 2.
At 70F ambient / 500' elevation performance typically ranges from 3,025 fps (5.3 SD) to 3,045 fps (7.7 SD) [five round samples], with "bugholes" groups at 100 yards. Sub-MOA groups on 18" diameter steel at 1,760 yards. Primer pockets remain intact, no indications of any over-pressure (i.e. no bolt lift resistance, no "clickers").
Looking forward to Area 419 producing .300NM insert sleeve for their "M" series die, hopefully early 2025. We already have the "M" die for my wife's .300 PRC, and the precision and ease with which desired shoulder set back can be acheived, coupled with true full-length resizing and neck mandrel, justifies the up-front investment . No clickers, no bolt lift resistance.
We've set aside the N570 (nearly 16# on hand) and have formulated combinations using N170 that allow significantly increased barrel life while preserving case condition.
Yeah, but my 338 Norma will run a 300gr nearly that fast (2740-2750) as he's getting from a 245 (2760) using the same basic case and barrel length/manufacturer. Factory Berger 230s in the 300 Norma were pushing 3000 pre-Covid. I wasn't suggesting he should be anywhere near 3000, but maybe near 2900 seems possible. 2760 just seems awfully low for going up a mere 15gr in bullet wt. BUT, as I said, he's got outstanding accuracy and ES/SD, so it's a great load and I agree with his decision to run it. I think, and he seems to agree, it's probably the H1000 being a little fast to get the MV up for the heavier bullet. I'm going to be trying Retumbo on the 245 very soon, although N570 seems to give optimum performance - I'm just a little shy of the reports of decreased barrel life and heavy fouling associated with it. It's already a pretty short barrel life to begin with.
I'm also using the M-die for the 300PRC and have been lobbying them to go ahead and come out with the 300NM for over a year. Did you get some info from them suggesting they were going to come out with it soon? Early 2025 is almost here!
I checked my original notes from the round one tests. Between 74 and 81 grains speed went from 2567 to 2834. There were no pressure signs on the brass but once the bolt starts to get sticky know I am playing with fire. Given the other loads posted here, and powders used, I do suspect H1000 is just too fast. I may try and score some cheap 220 Bergers on the hide and run another set of tests to confirm they run faster.
Well at the time, it was the only available option that wasnt $800 plus for 8lbs. However, in my limited testing its relatively temp stable (0.5fps/deg), Im at nearly 99% case fill, and well below max pressure, and still getting decent MV (2912, and 5.6 SD, ES 16 over 36 rounds).
That being said, I have not compared it to N570. Chances are, its a more suitable powder, but I think RL50 is a viable option.
That being said, I have not compared it to N570. Chances are, its a more suitable powder, but I think RL50 is a viable option.
RL33 and RL50 are both kind of on the slow side for the cartridge in general, but doable for shooting 250s - you're just going to be leaving a little performance on the table (and maybe some unburnt powder).
Blue Collar Reloading, Powder Valley, and Natchezss all have it in stock right now.
RL 50 is on sale at Midsouth for $289 for 8 pounds. That is the best deal on the market right now for pretty much any powder.
And 570 has been a lot more available in the last six months, and it gets you easily 50 to 100 ft./s over the closest alternative, but it will deep throat your tube lol
I refuse to use it after burning up one barrel in about 600 rounds. If it was a dedicated hunting rig with only 20 shots fired per year. I might make that deal with the devil. But not for any gun that I plan to shoot for practice or pleasure.
And 570 has been a lot more available in the last six months, and it gets you easily 50 to 100 ft./s over the closest alternative, but it will deep throat your tube lol
I refuse to use it after burning up one barrel in about 600 rounds. If it was a dedicated hunting rig with only 20 shots fired per year. I might make that deal with the devil. But not for any gun that I plan to shoot for practice or pleasure.
Ok. My understanding is that all the Alliant (including RL) powders are no longer being produced for the civilian market, and that once it’s gone, it’s gone.
What do you think about either powder with 245/250s with a 30" barrel?
Doable, but not ideal or optimized for the cartridge.
I find RL33 a bit slower than N570, and better suited for .338LM or Improved (it was my go to with 300s for the latter). RL50 is even slower so it doesn’t really make sense to me in a .300NM, but that’s just a hunch. I think RL50 is more popular with 37xc and 375CT, but I don’t shoot either of those these days so not direct experience.
.300NM is a lot like a .300WM shooting heavies or a .338LM shooting 250s, so lots of powers in that range from H1000 & Retumbo, RL25 | 26 | 33, and N170 | N565 | N568 | N570. And then weirdly I have one barrel I shoot 178s with N165.
I find RL33 a bit slower than N570, and better suited for .338LM or Improved (it was my go to with 300s for the latter). RL50 is even slower so it doesn’t really make sense to me in a .300NM, but that’s just a hunch. I think RL50 is more popular with 37xc and 375CT, but I don’t shoot either of those these days so not direct experience.
.300NM is a lot like a .300WM shooting heavies or a .338LM shooting 250s, so lots of powers in that range from H1000 & Retumbo, RL25 | 26 | 33, and N170 | N565 | N568 | N570. And then weirdly I have one barrel I shoot 178s with N165.
I wonder how LRT would do in the 300 NM. I use it in my .338 Norma, it's not ideal but I was able to find a ton of it.
Yes, it does. Even though I don't use them, we need all the players at the table because it helps all of us. It was posted here, and a bunch of other forums all over the net.
Vista suspended sale of Alliant powder?
Local gun shop posted this. There cancelling outstanding alliance orders Worldwide shortage of nitrocellulose? Are powders about to take a major hit?
www.snipershide.com
RL and H50 both are very consistent as far as speeds with 245s but suck balls in the speed department. A good thing I guess would be that you can never be overpressure with those powders in this case lol
I shoot a 300 norma improved but thinking about adding a straight 300 norma barrel so I don't have to improve for everything. What are you guys seeing performance wise n568 and n565 245 berger in the straight? What freebore you guys running for the 245?
Freebore is whatever AI uses PLUS whatever n570 has burned away.
With 245's I was getting 2900 fps but my 27" barrel has lost a ton of speed. I would guess a new barrel should be around 3k.
If you already have improved dies, brass why get a straight?
I haven’t shot the 245’s but I ran the 230’s up to 3150 with rl33 and currently shoot the 230’s comfortable at 3000-3050fps woth n570. Could probably get 3100-3120 out of it if wanted
I am new to the 300NM, have a bunch of Berger 220 LRHTs, N568, Retumbo, and H1000. Any advise on which powder to try first? Also, I'm having trouble finding data for N568 if anyone can point me in the right direction. Thanks!
Use N570 data and you’ll be on the safe side of things. N570 will produce a bit more velocity, but N568 max charges are a little larger(like 1%).
I felt the “n570 burning away the barrel” a little too much…… Still ordered 16 more lbs though because fuck it. What’s the point of driving an F1 car the speed limit? I didn’t get into 300NM because I cared about barrel life
Because usually it's just 50 fps or so compared to RETUMBO? I HATE getting rifles rebarreled, the wait time, the remeasurement and repeat load development and sighting in and break in and all that is a pain in the ass, and N570 is the ONE powder that guarantees you're going to be doing that more often. Unless you just shoot 50 rounds a year.
It takes me 10 seconds to rebarrel, and exactly two days to get a new barrel from the point I decide I want to do it to it being at my house.
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Also just because you have a 10 round mag doesn't mean you should shoot 10 round strings. That was my n570 mistake; after 10 rounds the barrel is about to melt into a puddle of steel.
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