308 Winchester AR Only

Ocean_Dweller · Dec 28, 2020

LC primed pull down brass, Varget 43.5grs, Sierra GK 165 HPBT, 2.775 OAL 2534 fps out of an 18" Noveske 1:10. I made 500 of these loads with my Dillon 650 a few years ago and I'm still using them. Even using the Dillon powder dispenser, my ES is 30 and SD 14. Not bad and I get about 1" groups using a thermal sight, so groups would be even better if a regular scope would be used.

I've used this load on hogs, deer, and coyotes and it's been destructive!

Greg Langelius * · Dec 29, 2020

This load essentially duplicates my own 168 FGMM Clone load. It should be accurate, relatively mild recoiling, and have respectable terminal performance.

This is similar to what I did with my 30-06 FGMM Clone (48.5gr of IMR-4064), substituting the 165 SGK for the 168 SMK. I found a 200 yd POI shift of less than 2" and as good, if not better, groups than the SMK. It has been my traditional deer load for going on a decade.

I have been noticing over the years that in some applications, IMR-4064 and Varget generate close to identical velocities at the identical charge weights. Since I don't hunt deer in Summer, I find the IMR-4064 to be excellent.

Greg

Mr.Kirk · Dec 30, 2020

18” Rainier select / POS OSS otb suppressor. I bought all of the 155 A-max when they started phasing them out. Nothing spectacular, but feels like good enough. The ‘09 and ‘11 is batched brass by year.

I lost this rifle on a fishing trip right after these targets were filed.

Andrew863 · Jan 25, 2021

My got to AR10 load it:
Fed Brass
168Gr SMK
CCI LRP
42.5gr Varget
COAL 2.800
And sized with small base die. I have a tight chamber on my 10.

Billiam1211 · Jan 25, 2021

178gr ELD-M
42.3 gr Shooter's World Precision
Lake City Brass
210M
2.805 COAL

5 Shots fired over the Magnetospeed
Average Velocity - 2,520 fps (20-inch barrel)
SD - 7 fps

ChrisC · Feb 1, 2021

150 gr Nosler Partition
47 gr CFE223
Federal Brass 1x
Rem No. 9 1/2
2.73 OAL
Sub MOA if i do my part
Aero M5E1 20 in barrel

OkieMike · Feb 8, 2021

blbennett1288 said:
I am wanting to conserve my Varget cache for 6mm. I have not given up trying to find powder online, but I think it’ll be easier to pick up powder in my LGS. They have a good stock and selection, but it’s kinda random. So i am trying to collect a list of viable .308 powders, so i am not googling in the store. I have gone through this thread and the .308 Win. What other powders would you run in a .308?

Reloader15
IMR 4064
IMR 4166
IMR 4895
Ramshot Tac
BLC-2
VV N550
VV 150
Shooters World Precision
Shooters World Long Rifle
AR Comp
CFE223
8208XBR
H4895
H380
H322
H355
Benchmark

AA 2495 pushing Sierra 168 MK gave the best results in my DB10... 18" SS, 1:10, FC brass, CCI #34 ( IIRC) loaded to 2.800 OAL... IIRC, the book called for 2.750

I'll have to go out to the shop and check my records but I believe the best 3 shot group @ 100 was about .625 C to C... Not stellar by any stretch. But that is with the factory trigger (horrible) and gas block. The gun seems to be overdriven so I think an adjustable gas block and better trigger might help tighten that up a hair... A little fiddling with seating depth might help too. But mag length is what it is so I can't play too much.

Anyway, AA2495 is one more option... if you can get any of it.

Mike

PorkChop · Feb 28, 2021

Any 155 Lapua load data/advice?
I just finished a 20 inch Craddock/Bartlein build and have some laying around.
Thanks

Noidly1 · Mar 4, 2021

Has anyone ran AA4064 in .308?

NCHillbilly · Mar 14, 2021

I have a DPMS LR308, with a 24in, 1-10 barrel. Has always shot most everything relatively well. Shot a new load a couple of days ago that did pretty well. 4 of the 5 shots in a .8" x .4" group at 100 yds. Of course, the fifth shot opened the group to just over 1"x .8". My concern with this load is the fact I know it should be relatively hot, but it's not giving me many signs that it is hot. Here are the load details:
LC brass (1x fired)
Hornady 178gr A-Max
43.6grs Varget
FGM210M primers

My chrony died just before firing this load, so no mv numbers, but should be north of 2600 fps from my barrel. I did have primer flattening with this load, but the primers were flattening with 41.8grs of varget under the same bullet and with the same primer. No ejector swipes, no primer cratering, no obvious pressure signs. Without a precision mic that measures to .0001", no way to tell if the cases are over-expanding, but everything seems good at this point. If you use this data, WORK UP SLOWLY.

Vmax97 · Mar 21, 2021

Curious to know from the AR-10 folks out there, do you do any special crimping for your AR-10 loads? I am an beginner F-Class shooter and do not do anything but neck tension for my loads but they are loaded one at time.

Great load data info, this confirms my data of IMR-4064 at 43.5 grs under a Midway Blemish 168gr BTHP that out of my 30 inch F-Class gun gives me 2705fps at the muzzle. I have not loaded for my AR-10 (DPMS LR308) yet and wanted to see what others were loading.

Billiam1211 · Mar 21, 2021

Vmax97 said:
Curious to know from the AR-10 folks out there, do you do any special crimping for your AR-10 loads? I am an beginner F-Class shooter and do not do anything but neck tension for my loads but they are loaded one at time.

Great load data info, this confirms my data of IMR-4064 at 43.5 grs under a Midway Blemish 168gr BTHP that out of my 30 inch F-Class gun gives me 2705fps at the muzzle. I have not loaded for my AR-10 (DPMS LR308) yet and wanted to see what others were loading.

I don't crimp, just use an expander mandrel to get .002 of neck tension for my precision gas gun loads.

OkieMike · Mar 21, 2021

Vmax97 said:
Curious to know from the AR-10 folks out there, do you do any special crimping for your AR-10 loads? I am an beginner F-Class shooter and do not do anything but neck tension for my loads but they are loaded one at time.

Great load data info, this confirms my data of IMR-4064 at 43.5 grs under a Midway Blemish 168gr BTHP that out of my 30 inch F-Class gun gives me 2705fps at the muzzle. I have not loaded for my AR-10 (DPMS LR308) yet and wanted to see what others were loading.

I was told over and over to crimp my gas gun ammo to prevent movement from recoil or the bolt slamming into battery. I do it. Nothing fancy, just a Lee factory crimp die. I'm just running an off the shelf gun so if I can keep it under 1 moa I'll be happy. Just put a new trigger in, hopefully that will help a bit.

Just my .02

Mike

samnev · Mar 22, 2021

david walter said:
I just received 4 lbs of “RG4895” MilSurp powder from a friend, and see that the Hodgdon’s site has data for it.

Extruded powder, but very small kernels.

Anyone using this in their loads?

On a Dillon RL550B?

YesI do. I use 40.5 grains behind 168 gr SMK's In my LaRue OBR 5 shot 100 5rd groups avg 0.8 moa sometimes closer to 0.6 moa.

samnev · Mar 22, 2021

OkieMike said:
I was told over and over to crimp my gas gun ammo to prevent movement from recoil or the bolt slamming into battery. I do it. Nothing fancy, just a Lee factory crimp die. I'm just running an off the shelf gun so if I can keep it under 1 moa I'll be happy. Just put a new trigger in, hopefully that will help a bit.

Just my .02

Mike

When I put a Geissele SSA-E in my OBR it improved groups from just over 1.1 moa to 0.8moa, sometimes closer to 0.6 moa..

OkieMike · Mar 22, 2021

samnev said:
When I put a Geissele SSA-E in my OBR it improved groups from just over 1.1 moa to 0.8moa, sometimes closer to 0.6 moa..

Thanks. Looking forward to trying it out as soon as the monsoons subside.

Mike

Bigtrucknut · Mar 23, 2021

Vmax97 said:
Curious to know from the AR-10 folks out there, do you do any special crimping for your AR-10 loads? I am an beginner F-Class shooter and do not do anything but neck tension for my loads but they are loaded one at time.

Great load data info, this confirms my data of IMR-4064 at 43.5 grs under a Midway Blemish 168gr BTHP that out of my 30 inch F-Class gun gives me 2705fps at the muzzle. I have not loaded for my AR-10 (DPMS LR308) yet and wanted to see what others were loading.

I do not crimp my LR loads, neither .308 or .243. I full length resize using a Redding S-bushing die and have several different diameter neck bushings to adjust neck tension for my .308 depending on what brand brass (differences in neck material thickness) I'm prepping.

GUTS · Mar 23, 2021

These are some of the different loads I tested in my 24", bull barrel LR.308. All 5 shot groups, Federal GMM brass, CCI #34 primers, full length sized with a small base die, trimmed to 2.005", no crimp, powder dispenser Lyman 1200 DPSII, 168grn Sierra Matchkings, shot off lead shot bag and bipod at 100 yards.

Here is the rifle now with my dark setup.

I saw the cross-hairs move when I lit the flyer off, it should have been a good group.

NCHillbilly · Mar 23, 2021

GUTS said:
These are some of the different loads I tested in my 24", bull barrel LR.308. All 5 shot groups, Federal GMM brass, CCI #34 primers, full length sized with a small base die, trimmed to 2.005", no crimp, powder dispenser Lyman 1200 DPSII, 168grn Sierra Matchkings, shot off lead shot bag and bipod at 100 yards.

Here is the rifle now with my dark setup.

I saw the cross-hairs move when I lit the flyer off, it should have been a good group.

The 4895 you have listed, is that IMR or hodgdon?

GUTS · Mar 24, 2021

It's IMR4895, I use it in my Garand loads also.

NCHillbilly · Mar 24, 2021

GUTS said:
It's IMR4895, I use it in my Garand loads also.

Outstanding. I also have a dpms lr308 that I normally shoot 175- 178 gr loads with, but am building a shorter barreled 308 that I'd like to use the 168's in. I have a bunch of those, and plenty of IMR4895. BTW, those were some nice groups you posted.

Khlit · Mar 24, 2021

Hi all, little off tangent here but still in gas gun territory I am going to be working up some loads for a scar 20s with the newer 1/10" twist barrel.
Component wise I gotta work with what I have at moment which is the following:
starline palma brass
Fed 205m primers
Sierra 175gr mks
Sierra 168gr tmks
Berger 185gr juggernaut otms
IMR 4895
VV n150
RL-15
I will probably start at 2.800 OAL and set neck tension to .003.

I shouldn't have much of an issue with the 175 smks since I've used them in bolt guns for years, but the other two have I have no experience with and there seems to be sparse info out there on them especially in a gas gun. All things considered I have my doubts that I will get the kind of performance I want out of this set up with the 185's since they don't really come into there own till about the 2600-2650 FPS mark, but been surprised before.
Anyone have any experience with these components in gas gun? Thank you.

OkieMike · Apr 3, 2021

OkieMike said:
Thanks. Looking forward to trying it out as soon as the monsoons subside.

Mike

I got to try it out last weekend when we went to break in the barrel on my wife's bolt gun... Hay field is still too wet for the truck so I had to go to my local range... I guess I could have moved back to 100 yards. But the folks to my right shooting pistol @25 might've been a tad uncomfortable with that... So I had to settle for 25. I poured 20 through it and it looked real good.

The real test will be 100 and beyond.

Mike

Wizard1183 · Apr 4, 2021

MERICA-LRS said:
Varget can be hard to find, but IMR4064 is a little easier... I believe this is the powder used in FGMM and the M118LR, I believe 41.78gr... my load with 4064 is 42.5gr behind a 168 or 175 smk. shoots well in my gas guns and bolt guns

nope. It’s proprietary blend. A mix of 3 diff powders. Long stick, medium stick and almost ball mixture.

PusherX11 · Apr 4, 2021

Wizard1183 · Apr 4, 2021

PusherX11 said:
View attachment 7597168

Perhaps for 175gr? Definitely not for 168gr. And that’s 2009. Shits changed since then. A LOT.

Vmax97 · Apr 13, 2021

@GUTS Can you clarify the 4064 load since there is an H and IMR version.
Great info, I have the same gun and have not shot it yet.

GUTS · Apr 13, 2021

It's IMR4064. I use 41.5 now with 168 matchkings and they shoot as well as the 42.5 load. I've had my LR.308 for over a dozen years and it is a very accurate rifle. When I got it new the barrel took right at 50rnds before it settled down to where it shoots now. My M1A likes the same load real well.

Vmax97 · Apr 14, 2021

GUTS said:
It's IMR4064. I use 41.5 now with 168 matchkings and they shoot as well as the 42.5 load. I've had my LR.308 for over a dozen years and it is a very accurate rifle. When I got it new the barrel took right at 50rnds before it settled down to where it shoots now. My M1A likes the same load real well.

Great to hear that about the load data, that is my go to load for my bolt action rifle for 168s. I have had mine for about the same amount of time but its been a safe queen while I have been shooting competition pistol. Getting into F-Class with my bolt action and thought it was time to get the AR-10 out of the safe. I was sad to hear that DPMS was bought. I bought mine since I had moved to Minnesota and they were based here.
Starting to load 185s and 208s for my bolt action, will see what they do at 600 yards.

smoothy8500 · Apr 18, 2021

Vmax97 said:
Getting into F-Class with my bolt action and thought it was time to get the AR-10 out of the safe. I was sad to hear that DPMS was bought. I bought mine since I had moved to Minnesota and they were based here.
Starting to load 185s and 208s for my bolt action, will see what they do at 600 yards.

Normally shoot F-T/R but started bringing the 308 AR in the NRA Tactical Rifle AR division. Since it’s single load also I just use .003” neck tension without a crimp. 168 or 175 are sufficient at 600 for me, but use whatever gives you the best accuracy at 600.

The scoring rings for Tactical Rifle AR are more generous than the F targets but still challenging.

OkieMike · Apr 19, 2021

rdsii64 said:
Winchester brass
Wolf L/R primer
42 grains of 8208XBR
My rifle groups in the '7's with;
150 grn Hornady SST
155 grn Hornady BTHP (with cannelure)
155 Nosler CC

What barrel length and twist rate are you running with those?

Mike

Wizard1183 · Apr 27, 2021

GUTS said:
It's IMR4064. I use 41.5 now with 168 matchkings and they shoot as well as the 42.5 load. I've had my LR.308 for over a dozen years and it is a very accurate rifle. When I got it new the barrel took right at 50rnds before it settled down to where it shoots now. My M1A likes the same load real well.

Take a FGMM 168gr apart and tell me it’s 4064. I promise you. It not. It’s proprietary. However! You’re correct in 4064 around 41.5 with 168 being just as accurate. IF you had their proprietary blend, your accuracy in hand loads would be sharper than FGMM. It’s a standard. However it doesn’t mean every gun will shoot accurately. But it’s by far the best store-bought ammo on the market.

Shoots 700's · Apr 27, 2021

Lots of great loads out there. I have a few, but 43.1 RL15 under a Berger 175 is money.

BCP · Jul 8, 2021

I have used small base FC/LC brass, 43grains RL15 and a 175SMK at 2.810" in all sorts of rifles and it always works well. Primer doesn't seem matter.

Kaveman44 · Jul 17, 2021

Do you guys crimp your 308 AR ammo? Thanks Jimmy

mtrmn · Jul 17, 2021

Kaveman44 said:
Do you guys crimp your 308 AR ammo? Thanks Jimmy

I do, but I'm probably the exception around here. I use Lee Factory Crimp Die or occasionally a taper crimp

Kaveman44 · Jul 17, 2021

mtrmn said:
I do, but I'm probably the exception around here. I use Lee Factory Crimp Die or occasionally a taper crimp

I have a Lee factor crimp die as well!

Billiam1211 · Jul 17, 2021

Kaveman44 said:
Do you guys crimp your 308 AR ammo? Thanks Jimmy

I don't crimp. Not for any reason other than I just haven't tried it. I've been using an expander mandrel to get .002 neck tension and reloading the 178 ELD-Ms with Shooter's World Precision and have been getting excellent accuracy.

Bob2650 · Jul 17, 2021

Brass has more spring to it than lead if I recall correctly. When I do crimp a rifle round I will use a taper crimp. I am perhaps confused about how the Lee factory crimp die works. I have several of them and decided that because the brass springs back more than the lead core of the projectile I am probably ending up with less neck tension not more. Has anyone researched/experimented with this issue? Is there more or less neck tension after crimping? Things often do not work the way we expect. Some measurements of the pressure required to move the bullet before and after crimping would answer an important question.

KZP · Jul 17, 2021

20" Barrel
FGGM brass
175 SMK
Ramshot TAC 43gr 2600 FPS
Little under 1 MOA out to 1k yards

Tried LC brass and had to reduce load down to 42.3gr 2560~ fps.

GhostFace · Jul 18, 2021

mtrmn said:
I do, but I'm probably the exception around here. I use Lee Factory Crimp Die or occasionally a taper crimp

I use one too with great success. FGGM has a slight crimp and it's the factory ammo which all are judged by...

Wizard1183 · Jul 23, 2021

Bob2650 said:
Brass has more spring to it than lead if I recall correctly. When I do crimp a rifle round I will use a taper crimp. I am perhaps confused about how the Lee factory crimp die works. I have several of them and decided that because the brass springs back more than the lead core of the projectile I am probably ending up with less neck tension not more. Has anyone researched/experimented with this issue? Is there more or less neck tension after crimping? Things often do not work the way we expect. Some measurements of the pressure required to move the bullet before and after crimping would answer an important question.

Annealing the brass mitigates springback

Bob2650 · Jul 23, 2021

Another good reason to anneal at every loading. Consistent neck tension.
Dead soft brass is no good to us because the shoulder will collapse when we try to seat a bullet.
Still thinking about how to accurately measure seating pressure.

FLIGHT762 · Jul 23, 2021

Bob2650 said:
Another good reason to anneal at every loading. Consistent neck tension.
Dead soft brass is no good to us because the shoulder will collapse when we try to seat a bullet.
Still thinking about how to accurately measure seating pressure.

Easy Peasy Just buy one of these: https://www.snipershide.com/shooting/threads/amp-press-now-in-stock.7085577/

Bob2650 · Jul 23, 2021

WOW!
Very interesting but way too expensive.

Powder_Burns · Jul 24, 2021

throwing money at things is always the fix, just ask Joe Biden.

Wizard1183 · Jul 24, 2021

Bob2650 said:
WOW!
Very interesting but way too expensive.

Amp is way overpriced. You saw the AMP press? For ppl that rather spend money than actually reload lol

Bob2650 · Jul 24, 2021

If my reloads were the main thing holding me back from the national championship then $10 to $20 thousand worth of extra reloading equipment might be a reasonable expenditure........
Wow, I need one of those crazy concussion smiles with the different size eyes spinning in different directions.

Ape_Factory · Aug 7, 2021

Powder_Burns said:
throwing money at things is always the fix, just ask Joe Biden.

Wow, you must have been asleep at the wheel for the previous administration and the subsequent massive jump in the national deficit. Myopic much? Back on target...

BCP · Aug 7, 2021

Anyone using the Nosler RDF bullets? Wondering if they shoot OK from 2.82" or less.

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