So the national deficit is ok now? Gotcha…Wow, you must have been asleep at the wheel for the previous administration and the subsequent massive jump in the national deficit. Myopic much? Back on target...
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So the national deficit is ok now? Gotcha…Wow, you must have been asleep at the wheel for the previous administration and the subsequent massive jump in the national deficit. Myopic much? Back on target...
No. Sierra is good. Those rdf are probably better due to consistent meplats as Sierra meplats are usually not consistent. $40 a box isn’t bad. Try em n see if it’s better than what you’re typically using. Betting it is. But by how much?Anyone using the Nosler RDF bullets? Wondering if they shoot OK from 2.82" or less.
I went thru 100 of them, set around 2.80 at different charge weightsAnyone using the Nosler RDF bullets? Wondering if they shoot OK from 2.82" or less.
I went thru 100 of them, set around 2.80 at different charge weights
I found 42gr of IMR4166 in Hornady brass, small base dyed got the most out of them with out pushing the limit of the brass.
Below is a target 20X40 at 1060 yards(according to my range finder) away. The Black square was the RDF's, which elevation wise were consistent, the wind was changing that day. Using a 16" barreled AR dialed up 13.5 from a 100yd zero.
View attachment 7692279
The RDF's do seem to carry further than the SMK with less powder. I tried 175 SMK's at 42g(4166) and they need an extra 1.5 mils to get out there.
I can't find anymore RDF's currently. I would use them as they do IMO seem to be slightly more efficient at long range
I finally found 4064 and set that under 175SMK which is capable of higher velocity than the 4166. I don't have a picture but was able to put 3 out of 5 shot in a group about the size of that orange dot on the pic above, on the exact same target.
I want to try the RDF's with the 4064 and will when I find them.
To sum it up, Yes the RDF's will shoot at magazine lengths, and in my experience where more efficient than the SMK, with similar accuracy.
Don’t take advice from whatever/whoever that source was.I read somewhere that in an A.R. 10 - 308 caliber with a 1 / 10 twist you should only shoot 180 grains are above or could mess up the barrel, is this true because I want to shoot someone 169 ELD’s
Thanks Jimmy
Don’t take advice from whatever/whoever that source was.
2,540 fps is my average velocity and I think my SD is usually around 10What are you getting for velocities?
I have an almost identical set-up and load, other than I'm running 4064 for powder and about 2475 for velocity.
Thank you for the answer on the primers.I’ve run nothing but 210M. No issues, pierced primers, slam fires, none of that.
I think your loads are hot for your gun. A 168gr going over 2600fps out of an 18” bbl makes me think that. The cratering reinforces the case. 168fgmm was in the 2470 fps range for my 16” bbl.
I had the same thing happen with FC brass in a 300WM. Loaded up and started shooting. Got crazy high velocities, and was still 3 grs BELOW book max. Blew the primer pockets out of about 20 cases. Needless to say, I had to back that load off to the point that it was quite a bit below book max, but grouped well and still had good mv, plus, my brass can be used again.When I first started loading in '06 all I had was FGGM brass, it gave me nothing but problems. I was able to produce accurate ammo but I was blowing primers on mild to moderate charges due to loose primer pockets. I ended up ruining a bolt because of this. I think your charges while good in other peoples rifles is no bueno in yours, your chamber maybe tighter than most. If you are insistent on using Fed brass I would back off another 10% on your charges and start over on load development. I would still drop the Fed brass just based on my experience, Midway has primed Lake City pull down brass for a reasonable price.
Using 41.5gr 4064 CCI 34s LC brass and 168smk velocity was 2420 and pretty accurate. 16” bblI’ve run nothing but 210M. No issues, pierced primers, slam fires, none of that.
I think your loads are hot for your gun. A 168gr going over 2600fps out of an 18” bbl makes me think that. The cratering reinforces the case. 168fgmm was in the 2470 fps range for my 16” bbl.
Ouch!Thank you for the answer on the primers.
I agree it looked to hot so I only shot these 5 that were my bottom ladder. Rinse and repeat for bottom load on the other 2.
Obviously I fucked up and miss-judged these starting loads badly.
Is there a general rule for how much AR loads need to be reduced from book bolt gun loads???
Live and learn, hopefully my fuck up may prevent someone from making the same mistake.
Next range trip I've got new ladders loaded with the XBR. It'll be a few weeks since I've got back to back matches the next 2 weekends.
168TMK 40.8, 41.1, & 41.4
176 A-tip 40.5, 40.8, & 41.1
155 ELDM 42.9, 43.2, & 43.5
To be clear the load I posted above (post #119) & all below are way to hot. If your using XBR, obviously start well below what I'm posting here.
That said the loads are within Sierra's recommended range.
The odd thing is that I'm getting the exact speed from my 18" barrel that Sierra is predicting for a 24" (presumably bolt gun). Between the velocity loss for the gas system & 6" shorter barrel I'ts not making much sense. Honestly I was expecting & hoping for 100FPS less then I got with the TMK's & working up to somewhere around 2620. This is why I think my lot of XBR might be on the very hot end of the spectrum.
For reference FGMM 168's Run 2622 from my barrel.
Whole box of FGMM 168
View attachment 7715277
Beats up the back end of the FGMM brass pretty bad, but primers are good.
View attachment 7715279
My start load for the 176 A-tip was 42gr XBR loaded @2.825
Sierra predicts 2600 from a 24" barrel & lists 43.2 as top load. This is for a 175TMK & 2.800 oal not an A-tip
Was expecting 2540ish. Way to Hot.
View attachment 7715294View attachment 7715300
And 155 ELDM's I was hoping for 2750ish from the 18"
44.7gr loaded @ 2.795 again way to hot.
View attachment 7715309View attachment 7715310
I just measure brass fired in my chamber and bump the shoulder back .003 - .004 for AR'sHow are you guys measuring headspace?
I have been trying to learn this my self in a semi auto .308/7.62x51 chamber. What I am finding is the chamber is at max sammi spec on my particular rifle. I was using a Hornady.308 case gauge to size my brass
View attachment 7723323
and setting the die off this with out measuring head space. No matter what charge weight I used it was tearing up the brass. So I went out and picked up a head space comparator gauge and started measuring my sized brass to find I wAs bumping the should wayyy to far back
Case length sized brass.
View attachment 7723326
So i measured some fired in my chamber brassView attachment 7723325
It came out to max Sammi spec for .308. So I was bumping .016- .018 off the head space using the case length gauge. Way too much bump View attachment 7723329and shorter than sammi specs, in my max spec chamber.View attachment 7723334
So I used my head space comparator and set the head space around the sammi max of 1.634 and it stopped tearing up the brass and functioned flawlessly.
Not only were ejector and extractor being left on the brass, it was also causing the rim to grow. Which I mistook for pressure signs that was actually improper head space.
So I am just throwing it out there, if you are tearing up brass at low, what should be safe charge weights. Insure you are not bumping the shoulder back too far for your chamber.
47.0C | 2,909 | 49,400 CUP [56,988 PSI]* |
47.5C | 2,871 | 56,500 PSI |
45.3 | 2,854 | 60,900 PSI |
Thank you for the feed back. I am new to this and still learning. Any input is appreciatedStop trying to use your Hornady comparator numbers off of a SAAMI drawing. They will NOT match. The Hornady tool is a "Comparator", not a certified headspace gauge.
For reference, I took my .400 Hornady comparator insert and measured a 1.630" 308 Win "Go" gauge. It measured 1.621". That meant my 400 insert has a .009" chamfer on it. So on my "Comparator" insert, @ 1.621" equals 1.630".
Your rifle could be way over gassed, showing the 1.640" measurement. A friend's Les Baer expands the case shoulder like your's show. No way the Les Baer has that long of a chamber.
My two gas guns, a SR-25 has a very tight chamber and fired brass comes out +.002" (1.623" on my Hornady insert) and GAP 10 pushes the shoulders + .005" (1.626").
Make some dummy rounds and see where the F/L brass chambers easily in your rifle.
The two gauges that will show a SAAMI reading are the RCBS Precision Mic and the Whidden case gauge. They zero off of 1.630", showing you plus or minus.
You can also measure the shoulders of some factory loaded 308 and see what you get with your comparator. That will not be perfect because most factory ammo will be a little short of SAAMI minimum.
Also, be sure to decap your fired cases before measuring. Primer cratering can give you a false reading. Ejector swipes on the base will also give false readings.
The 169 smk is 0.527 BTO and 1.304 AOL.Question for the brain trust on here. Does anyone have a base to ogive comparison between 168SMK & the newish 169SMK??
Thanks I'll have to order some of the 169's. Looks like the 169's are very close to the 155 Eldm's.The 169 smk is 0.527 BTO and 1.304 AOL.
THE 168 IS 0.500 BTO and 1.2 AOL
The 165 SGK is 0.56 BTO and 1.18 AOL
I am working on a hog load with some 150 btsp interlocks I picked up for cheap a while ago. Will use some 210's and Varget. I actually did a load test with these about 8 months ago, but lost my data. My .308 gasser is a Daniel Defense with a 16" bbl, I run a TBAC Ultra 7 as well. My .308 is pretty much my hog gun only and my main goal is a reliable feeding round with lighter recoil and reasonable accuracy. Realistically, most of my shots are at night so they are generally under 100 yards. I will post up some results when I can get out and shoot.150gr Hornaday SST
LC new brass, already primed
CCI 34 (assumed)
45.56gr / 2.952g IMR-4895
2.780in OAL
2740fps (18" barrel)
@Khlit where did you end up with your scar 20 load development? I’ve got a bunch of 175gr smk and 185gr juggernauts and some of the same powders.Hi all, little off tangent here but still in gas gun territory I am going to be working up some loads for a scar 20s with the newer 1/10" twist barrel.
Component wise I gotta work with what I have at moment which is the following:
starline palma brass
Fed 205m primers
Sierra 175gr mks
Sierra 168gr tmks
Berger 185gr juggernaut otms
IMR 4895
VV n150
RL-15
I will probably start at 2.800 OAL and set neck tension to .003.
I shouldn't have much of an issue with the 175 smks since I've used them in bolt guns for years, but the other two have I have no experience with and there seems to be sparse info out there on them especially in a gas gun. All things considered I have my doubts that I will get the kind of performance I want out of this set up with the 185's since they don't really come into there own till about the 2600-2650 FPS mark, but been surprised before.
Anyone have any experience with these components in gas gun? Thank you.
Continued the load development today. Only difference was the primer CCI 250 (used BR-2 last week) and it was ~30* cooler.Put my first hand loads through the SCAR 20 today. The goal was to replicate the lot of 2013 produced M118LR I have. I was plagued with chronograph troubles but got some good data none the less. In order not to put a hole in my chrony I had to shoot the groups from an awkward position so don’t put too much stock in the relative group sizes.
The m118lr I have runs right at 2550 through this barrel. I was only able to get 3 rounds to record today but they averaged 2440 with an ES of 25.
_________________________________________________
Barrel: 20” 1 in 10” twist
Brass: 1x fired LC LR
Powder: RE-15 42.8gr
Primer: CCI BR-2
Bullet: 175gr SMK
Velocity: 2583
C.O.L: 2.808 +/- .002 (used the same base to ojive as the avg of 10 M118LR)
I loaded up 5 each of 42.8,43.1,43.4 with the RE-15. My first string was 42.8gr and averaged 2583, ES 50, SD 21. Already too fast so I didn’t bother to shoot the others. No signs of pressure but not what I’m trying to accomplish either.
_________________________________________________
Barrel: 20” 1 in 10” twist
Brass: 1x fired LC LR
Powder: IMR 4064 - 41.4, 41.8, 42.2
Primer: CCI BR-2
Bullet: 175gr SMK
Velocity: NA, 2510, 2540
C.O.L: 2.808 +/- .002 (used the same base to ojive as the avg of 10 M118LR)
From my research mk316 is loaded with ~41.8gr of 4064. No data on the 41.4gr group, 41.8 avg 2510 ES 32 SD 12, 42.2 avg 2540 ES 38 SD 16. I think something between 42 and 42.4 will be a winner.
_________________________________________________
Barrel: 20” 1 in 10” twist
Brass: 1x fired LC LR
Powder: IMR4895 - 40.6, 41, 41.4
Primer: CCI BR-2
Bullet: 175gr SMK
Velocity: NA, 2537, 2533*
C.O.L: 2.808 +/- .002 (used the same base to ojive as the avg of 10 M118LR)
Due to chrono troubles I only got one shot of the 40.6 group recorded. 41 avg 2537 ES 24 SD 11. *The 41.4 group only had 3 shots record and the avg was 2533 but a big ES of 74. I think I’ll start at 40.8 and creep up to 41.4 to see if that consistency is repeatable.
Is this out of a bolt or gas gun?178gr Hornady ELD-M
Lake City Brass
210M Primer
42.3 gr Shooters World Precision
2.805"
20-inch Bartlein 1:10 twist from Craddock Precision. Haven't shot any groups on paper since load development, but I've been able to hit sub-minute steel targets at distance. Doubt that if I shot 5 groups I would average in the .4s, but it's definitely a .5-.75 minute load.
This was an AR10 build I did. Now days it's sporting a 24-inch Proof 6.5 Creedmoor barrel. I'm still holding on to that 20-inch Bartlein barrel and might build another upper one of these days.Is this out of a bolt or gas gun?
You may be referring to the ejector(plunger) rather than the extractor(hook), because the spring tension on the plunger can theoretically push the case further into the chamber, giving a false reading on the headspace dimension from breech face to the datum line on the shoiulder of the chamber. With the ejector plunger and spring removed you can simply chamber a dummy/empty case and see how easy it is to lock up the bolt lugs, when it gets tight you have reached the maximum headspace dimension for your cartridge case that will still fit in your rifles chamber. Erik Cortina has demonstrated this on his custom F class rig, where the bolt handle either closes fully just on gravity or it hangs up and needs force to get it closed.[If I'm not mistaken his rifles do not have any ejector plungers in the bolts, you can easily notice him not only hand loading but hand ejecting in his videos)I use a hornady comparator as well. I understand that measuring headspace in your rifle you’re supposed to remove the extractor? In my case? That’s not gonna happen as it’s not easily done.