308 Winchester AR Only

Real quick, measured the KAC and it seems like it will do 2.885 no problem, if you could find one. Just got in some Larues and they might do 2.875, definitely 2.870.
Remember just because that’s the internal length of the mag, you can’t load all your rounds to that and think it won’t jam towards the bottom as the case taper makes the stack want to curve.

Measure oal length from the nose to the edge of the rim to make sure you’ll still be under the mag length when they aren’t perfectly square in the stack.
 
Aero Precision .308 Win w/ 24" X-caliber barrel, R+2" gas system
Norma brass
168gr SMK #2200
IMR 4895 (43.2 grain)
Federal GMM 210M
COAL: 2.815"
.500" at 100 yards

Coincidently, was ladder testing handloads for my Rem 700 w/ 24" Krieger barrel yesterday. This same recipe through the Rem 700 shot a .200" 3-round group.
Tested at 700 yards this past weekend - first round hit on steel, slight adjustment for elevation (was a little high) and was able to dial in the ballistic computer with 19.5 MOA "did hit" using a BC of .218 (G7). Strelok Pro gives me an adjusted MV of 2731. I'll take it!
 
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Tested at 700 yards this past weekend - first round hit on steel, slight adjustment for elevation (was a little high) and was able to dial in the ballistic computer with 19.5 MOA "did hit" using a BC of .218 (G7). Strelok Pro gives me an adjusted MV of 2731. I'll take it!
How are you liking that barrel? I've never used them before, but I have one in 6.5cm that I'm getting ready to put together.
 
How are you liking that barrel? I've never used them before, but I have one in 6.5cm that I'm getting ready to put together.
This is my third X-caliber barrel - I am sold on the quality and value. The first was a similar barrel in .243 Win - 24" barrel, fluted heavy contour, 8:1 twist. That damned rifle is my "go to" favorite that I shoot long range and use in local PRS matches. Shoots 95 grain SMKs at a conservative 2960 fps and holds 1/2 MOA groups. The second is a custom LR barrel in .45 Raptor - fit and finish are outstanding and the price was reasonable for an unserious caliber. The last was the LR308 barrel. 24", fluted, R+2" gas system and it shoots great, less than 1/2 MOA at 100 and consistent.

The last two were both purchased during X-Caliber holiday sales - 45% off for the 45 Raptor in honor of President Trump and 20% off on the 308 for Independence Day.

The next one I get will be a replacement barrel for my vintage Savage Model 112 Series J in 243 Win.

 
This is my third X-caliber barrel - I am sold on the quality and value. The first was a similar barrel in .243 Win - 24" barrel, fluted heavy contour, 8:1 twist. That damned rifle is my "go to" favorite that I shoot long range and use in local PRS matches. Shoots 95 grain SMKs at a conservative 2960 fps and holds 1/2 MOA groups. The second is a custom LR barrel in .45 Raptor - fit and finish are outstanding and the price was reasonable for an unserious caliber. The last was the LR308 barrel. 24", fluted, R+2" gas system and it shoots great, less than 1/2 MOA at 100 and consistent.

The last two were both purchased during X-Caliber holiday sales - 45% off for the 45 Raptor in honor of President Trump and 20% off on the 308 for Independence Day.

The next one I get will be a replacement barrel for my vintage Savage Model 112 Series J in 243 Win.

Yeah, I bought my barrel right after Christmas last year, but haven't had time to build the rifle. It's encouraging to hear you have had good results. That may be enough to spur me on and get mine built.
 
Due to whatever reason , either cost or availability or just experimenting have any of us "gas gun" shooters tried any of the AA powders ; 2230,2460, 2495,2520,4064 ??
It seams I read here of a member saying that he had and that the AA powder he was using didn't preform well till he had reached the max or near max load. I've got an stock RRA with the heavy 26" barrel so that will be my test bed as time allows.
 
I tested AA2460 w 175SMK but I couldn’t get consistent velocity the way I’ve been getting with AR-Comp, Varget, and N150. At the time I just wanted to see if I could get a ball powder to work for easy metering purposes, but not this one.
 
Due to whatever reason , either cost or availability or just experimenting have any of us "gas gun" shooters tried any of the AA powders ; 2230,2460, 2495,2520,4064 ??
It seams I read here of a member saying that he had and that the AA powder he was using didn't preform well till he had reached the max or near max load. I've got an stock RRA with the heavy 26" barrel so that will be my test bed as time allows.
When the panic first started I picked up a pound of 2495. I was in my gas gun reloading infancy and didn't have a chronograph at the time... But I seem to remember getting some good groups with 2495 and 168 A-Max bullets.

I'll have to dig through my notes and old targets to verify... But the fact that I wanted to buy more of it and couldn't ever get it, tells me it stood out somehow.

It was in .223/5.56 and not .308, but AA2015 pushing 69 gr SMK's gave me my best group ever in my off-the-shelf junker 16" carbine... Velocity was only 2510 but they grouped well until I pushed it fast and the barrel heated up. Pics are on the 5.56 AR thread.

Accurate powders don't get much attention. But for a while they were about the only powders available... Not my first choice but they do work.

Mike
 
Here ya go Bad dog...

It's not exactly bugholes... About .7 MOA. Which is phenomenal for this gun. 35 grains of 2495, Federal brass, 168 AMAX, and surprisingly, CCI 200 LRP. Wouldn't be my primer of choice for a gas gun today... And I don't remember ever buying any. But that's what the notes say. So it was probably all I could get. I bet it's ridiculously slow, but I didn't have a chrony at the time so no MV.

This gun was horrendously overpassed and so I would get false overpressure signs. As a result I would tend to keep things pretty weak until I caught on to the issue.

Another thing to consider... I didn't have a bench. I was literally out in the pasture laying on an old bedsheet... No bipod... Maybe a bag for support. Don't remember. It's been almost 2 years.

Mike
 

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I also found this while digging through all my old targets. Note to self: File folder for each gun's notes & targets.

I apparently had bought a couple pounds of AA 2015 and tested some with .308 Win.

All 4 groups on this target were pretty decent for this gun... But 37.5 gr seemed to be the one really trying to group.

Again, gun was overgassed so I was keeping things on the weak side... Also Federal brass isn't the best.

And again, laying on a sheet with no real solid support. Some of the spread is likely ME.

I have some 2015 left. Might need to revisit some of these loads now that my gun is gassing right and I know a little more than I did. And I have a chronograph.

I also have 2 pounds of 2200 that have never been opened. Might have to give them a whirl.

Mike
 

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I also found this while digging through all my old targets. Note to self: File folder for each gun's notes & targets.

I apparently had bought a couple pounds of AA 2015 and tested some with .308 Win.

All 4 groups on this target were pretty decent for this gun... But 37.5 gr seemed to be the one really trying to group.

Again, gun was overgassed so I was keeping things on the weak side... Also Federal brass isn't the best.

And again, laying on a sheet with no real solid support. Some of the spread is likely ME.

I have some 2015 left. Might need to revisit some of these loads now that my gun is gassing right and I know a little more than I did. And I have a chronograph.

I also have 2 pounds of 2200 that have never been opened. Might have to give them a whirl.

Mike
Mike,
Is this group with the 37.5 AA 2015 with the H 168 A ?
I just put some Tungsten weights for an AR buffer tube in my "shopping cart" since I'm sure the RRA is "over gassed" also researching some different springs.
Hornady's manual lists rifle and "service rifle" data for their 178's . In the rifle data they list 2460 w/o any MAX limit and 44.0 of 2520 as a MAX.
As Roseanne Roseanannadana used to say " Ain't it always something"
 
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Mike,
Is this group with the 37.5 AA 2015 with the H 168 A ?
I just put some Tungsten weights for an AR buffer tube in my "shopping cart" since I'm sure the RRA is "over gassed" also researching some different springs.
Hornady's manual lists rifle and "service rifle" data for their 178's . In the rifle data they list 2460 w/o any MAX limit and 44.0 of 2520 as a MAX.
As Roseanne Roseanannadana used to say " Ain't it always something"
Yes sir, 168 AMAX.

I'm far from an expert on all this... Just relating what's worked for me. So as always, use caution, work up loads, etc... usual disclaimers.

First thing I tried was changing to tungsten weights in my buffer... No joy. It was still kicking brass 12-15 feet to one o'clock... If they didn't stovepipe on me. And it was burring up the rim... Just beating the brass to pieces.

I wound up going to an adjustable gas block which can be its own aggravation... Keep that in mind if you go that route.

Now that it's not destroying brass I should go back and revisit those loads and see if I can really find something that shines. I changed out the trigger a while back. Ditched the mil-spec and added a CMC 2.5 lb drop-in. That might help tighten groups a bit.

Good luck. Let me know if you find anything that works for you.

Mike
 
Anyone using the Hodgdon's data site for any references ? They list a "Service Rifle" and a 308 data. The "Service Rifle" listing are for the most part more than I see everyone here use, examples are
168 SMK
42.3 H 4895
43.2 Varget
44.2 IMR 4895
43.9 IMR 4064

Any thoughts ?
 
At Hodgdon the 308 / varget goes up to 46.0g and service rifle 43.2g

At 46.0 it would get very crunchy, I hate that sound one foot from my face.
 
Very crunchy, as as bad ,maybe worse is their 45 gn of AA 4064 with a 178 A max / They say loaded to 2.80, they must have king kong on the press handle.
I picked up about 800 178 BTHP's at a yard sale, I hate to use my Hornady Match cases in an AR, going to try some FGMM & LR LR cases and try to get 2600+ out of my 26" tubes. I hate the thought, as I like to load some heavy cast bullets for the grand children to shoot, then go back to trying the loads out to 800 yds.
 
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Very crunchy, as as bad ,maybe worse is their 45 gn of AA 4064 with a 178 A max / They say loaded to 2.80, they must have king kong on the press handle.
I picked up about 800 178 BTHP's at a yard sale, I hate to use my Hornady Match cases in an AR, going to try some FGMM & LR LR cases and try to get 2600+ out of my 26" tubes. I hate the thought, as I like to load some heavy cast bullets for the grand children to shoot, then go back to trying the loads out to 800 yds.
FWIW, I get 2620-2630 out of a 24", 1-10 twist ar using 178 A-max, LC cases, 43.2 grs of VARGET, with either cci 34's or FM 210m's. Pretty accurate (1 moa or less) depending on my ability on a given day.
 
Thank you , forecast for this week-end is rain so I'll get some of of both the A Max & BTHP's, and you did load them to your AR's Mag. length ?
yes, 2.800". This is on the warm end of the scale. I constantly check for pressure signs, but even in summer weather, it has been good. I'd work up to that, just to be safe.

I also have a load with hornady 178gr bthp's, 42.7grs of IMR 4064, same brass and primers. 2570-2580 fps. I've made consistent hits on steel to 1100 yds with this load. Also 2.800".
 
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I am wanting to conserve my Varget cache for 6mm. I have not given up trying to find powder online, but I think it’ll be easier to pick up powder in my LGS. They have a good stock and selection, but it’s kinda random. So i am trying to collect a list of viable .308 powders, so i am not googling in the store. I have gone through this thread and the .308 Win. What other powders would you run in a .308?


Reloader15
IMR 4064
IMR 4166
IMR 4895
Ramshot Tac
BLC-2
VV N550
VV 150
Shooters World Precision
Shooters World Long Rifle
AR Comp
CFE223
8208XBR
H4895
H380
H322
H355
Benchmark
Norma 202 with 150/155 gr
IMR 4064 or Varget is excellet in the 308 Win
Along with Reloader 15.5
 
Just received a few thousand 155smk from American for my 308AR Krieger. Gonna do some load development and testing with them this week or next
Any update would be "appreciated " ,about to venture into the 155 weight bullet for the first time .......I have smk and vld and the common for 308 powders.......going to start with IMR 4064
 
hey guys, brand new to the forum. im currently reloading .308s (1st time myself,alone.Last time was 30ish yrs ago with my grandfather, who has passed, so i cant run to him for the help, so here i am.) Just for target shooting 150-180 yards, til i find a further range. Heres my gun n supply info.....
POF ROGUE AR10(15).308
-16.5" barrel-
1:8 twist.
My supply list is this:
*IMR4895
*GINEX large rifle
*LC 21 brass
*Hornady-
150g FMJBT
&178g ELD MATCH
I loaded 150g- 3 rnds each of 41g, 41.5g, 42g. Started low bc of the brass, from what i researched. IM ONLY USING LC21 BRASS AT THIS MOMENT, but i did measure the water volume in the 3 diff brass cases i have (LC21, Aguila7.62, A.USA.308win). Difference from empty and full is...
1) 3.600g-Aguila
2) 3.600g-LC21
3) 3.641g-A.USA 308
Was just curious how diff the cases were with volume.

Anyway, my question....
What load for 178g ELD MATCH do u guys think would be best for my setup, and with the supplies i have. IMR4895.

i looked evrywhere online and i dnt see anything for that powder and 178g.

thanks ahead of time!!
 
1667495467327.png

This is what Quickload predicts.

My guess is you could start around 39gr and move up towards 43gr, checking for pressure signs. In fact, it's smart to do a quick pressure test string on new combinations of components like this by just loading a single round of increasing charge weights and just looking for a safe window to do the actual load dev in. I bring a large cardboard box to the range with me to catch the brass so I can easily inspect each one for pressure signs.
 
View attachment 7990459
This is what Quickload predicts.

My guess is you could start around 39gr and move up towards 43gr, checking for pressure signs. In fact, it's smart to do a quick pressure test string on new combinations of components like this by just loading a single round of increasing charge weights and just looking for a safe window to do the actual load dev in. I bring a large cardboard box to the range with me to catch the brass so I can easily inspect each one for pressure signs.
thank you. appreciate it.
is QUICKLOAD a program u enter your numbers and it tells u? or does it just have all the diff combos listed??
 
When I first started reloading I was using 178 AMAX (similar to ELD-M) and IMR4895. I found 41.5-42.0 to be the sweet slot in my AR-10s. I settled on 41.8 grains....
 
Interesting, from what I'm seeing you should re run the program with a slower powder, and maybe a powder with less loading density, maybe something like AA 2520 or 748 , but seam to only preform well at upper pressure levels.
Since all 308 loading data, except Hornady's and Hodgdon's " service rifle" data considers that a bolt gun will be used.
Not knowing how my AR , a stock RRA with 26" tube was set up at the factory as far as a gas port** I use loads that Hodgdon lists at 60 K or less. I'd be willing to bet that Hodgdon,, Western / AA & Lyman in their LR Precision Rifle Reloading Handbook all use a program like Quickload to determine what pressure's the loads they list are producing .
** probably need to look into a very adjustable, "adjustable gas block" .
 
Currently working with 178ELDM’s using 4064 in FC15 and FC-308 brass seated around 2.830 or a 2.194BTO 41.8gr small base die trimed at 2.010. It is a mildly compressed load. Shot it Monday and was repeatedly hitting a 4 inch plate at 300yards with a 716I.

Brass below is on its 4th reloading, Primer pockets are still snug. Runs fine, doesn’t tear up the brass.
image.jpg


I have tried up to 42.7grain same brass prep and seating depth. the bullet seating gets inconsistent. The powder charge starts pushing the bullet back out. At 41.8 grains I can still seat to 2.800 so I can use high capacity mags.
 

It's an internal ballistics program, and an old one at that, but it gets regular data updates (new powders, bullets, etc). It's not a replacement for proper load development, but it's a very handy tool for testing out combinations to see what may work best long before actually loading any.
well, it worked well. i shot 10rnds with the 178g. 2@39g, 2@40g, [email protected], [email protected], 2@41. All were within 4in, but the 4 @40.5/40.8 wrked best. dead center 🎯 , eveything just felt, sounded n looked good with those.....with a shitty scope, and a blind man firing @ lol. But thanks for your help and the info.
 
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thanks bud. i appreciate it. ill test that load also. i just couldnt find anything definite with that powder and 178 eld match. only the 175.
but thanks again.
Yes I did, I think I was at 2600 from a 22 inch barrel at the time. I chopped it to 20 and eventually to 18 inches but by time I got there I had switched over to 4064...
sry. replied to wrong post. lol that was meant for your prev post
 
Anyone working with 135 grain Sierra Varmiter bullets or Barnes 130 grain TTSX? I need a solid load for a DDV5 with a 16” barrel. I have access to CFE223, Varget, and 4064. My goal is a under 200 yard deer load for a smaller shooter.

any experience from others would be appreciated
 
View attachment 7990459
This is what Quickload predicts.

My guess is you could start around 39gr and move up towards 43gr, checking for pressure signs. In fact, it's smart to do a quick pressure test string on new combinations of components like this by just loading a single round of increasing charge weights and just looking for a safe window to do the actual load dev in. I bring a large cardboard box to the range with me to catch the brass so I can easily inspect each one for pressure signs.
Just going to add that Dogtown's suggestion on the pressure test is a good one. It gives you a definite STOP HERE point for a component combo in your rifle... And if you have a chronograph it can help you find velocity nodes.

Mike
 
Currently working with 178ELDM’s using 4064 in FC15 and FC-308 brass seated around 2.830 or a 2.194BTO 41.8gr small base die trimed at 2.010. It is a mildly compressed load. Shot it Monday and was repeatedly hitting a 4 inch plate at 300yards with a 716I.

Brass below is on its 4th reloading, Primer pockets are still snug. Runs fine, doesn’t tear up the brass.
View attachment 7991019

I have tried up to 42.7grain same brass prep and seating depth. the bullet seating gets inconsistent. The powder charge starts pushing the bullet back out. At 41.8 grains I can still seat to 2.800 so I can use high capacity mags.
You probably already know this... But when I have inconsistent seating depth issues with compressed loads I do an initial seating that's about .010 long. Then I go back and work them all down to the target depth... Takes a bit of time and can be a PITA. But it removes that bit of doubt as to whether your grouping is due to inconsistent seating depth.

Mike
 
You probably already know this... But when I have inconsistent seating depth issues with compressed loads I do an initial seating that's about .010 long. Then I go back and work them all down to the target depth... Takes a bit of time and can be a PITA. But it removes that bit of doubt as to whether your grouping is due to inconsistent seating depth.

Mike
I have done similar. Seat them, then measure and sort them, then bump the long ones down.

The one that I loaded at 42.7 that gave me the trouble, one of the 5 I could not get it shorter than 2.838 has grown .002”
image.jpg

Going to pull these 42.7gr down and not shoot them. Loaded them Out of curiosity. Seems a little too much for my components/process.

Btw- at 41.4 is when I noticed, I could shake them I didn’t hear much moving around inside. Again with my process and components.
 
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I have done similar. Seat them, then measure and sort them, then bump the long ones down.

The one that I loaded at 42.7 that gave me the trouble, one of the 5 I could not get it shorter than 2.838 has grown .002” View attachment 7992329
Going to pull these 42.7gr down and not shoot them. Loaded them Out of curiosity. Seems a little too much for my components/process.

Btw- at 41.4 is when I noticed, I could shake them I didn’t hear much moving around inside. Again with my process and components.
Is that an attachment for your caliper? Just to allow the head to sit flat? Bc i have the same caliper, but i just use the tooth(or whatevr theyre called)
 
Is that an attachment for your caliper? Just to allow the head to sit flat? Bc i have the same caliper, but i just use the tooth(or whatevr theyre called)
No, its for measuring the base to ogive. It is not necessarily designed to measure over all length. Pic below is how the tool is designed to be used.

image.jpg

But it works for measureing the Over all length too. Just flip the cartridge 180 degrees.