16-18 inch shorty rifles

[Boatninja]

I just recently built a 6mm Creedmore with a 16.5” Criterion barrel on a Mausingfield action, SilencerCo Harvestor suppressor with Magpul Hunterstock. I haven’t shot much past 300 yds but at that range I’m getting 1/2 moa groups on paper and have shot several critters in the 150 yd range with Hornady 108gr Eld match ammo with full penetration on critters in the 30-40 lb range. No regrets! It is perfectly suited to what it was built for a compact super accurate gun, fast and easy to get out the window of the truck for quick shots on fast moving targets. Criterion advised against cutting a longer barrel due to run-out variations etc but spun me up a medium varmint 1-8 twist barrel threaded for not a lot of money. I was getting some static aboutgoing that short. Sorry, I don’t have a picture of the gun but I do have this....

 

[stello1001]

I just recently built a 6mm Creedmore with a 16.5” Criterion barrel on a Mausingfield action, SilencerCo Harvestor suppressor with Magpul Hunterstock. I haven’t shot much past 300 yds but at that range I’m getting 1/2 moa groups on paper and have shot several critters in the 150 yd range with Hornady 108gr Eld match ammo with full penetration on critters in the 30-40 lb range. No regrets! It is perfectly suited to what it was built for a compact super accurate gun, fast and easy to get out the window of the truck for quick shots on fast moving targets. Criterion advised against cutting a longer barrel due to run-out variations etc but spun me up a medium varmint 1-8 twist barrel threaded for not a lot of money. I was getting some static aboutgoing that short. Sorry, I don’t have a picture of the gun but I do have this....

Fucking beast!!!

Did you also take that deer with that same rifle? Also, what part of Texas are you hunting at? I hunt premont area as well as freer area!

 

[Boatninja]

Fucking beast!!!

Did you also take that deer with that same rifle? Also, what part of Texas are you hunting at? I hunt premont area as well as freer area!

That was near Fowlerton, and haven’t shot any deer with it but would not hesitate.

 

[PBWalsh]

18” carbon 6.5 Creed here. Thing loves the new vmax load with a .4” group right out the gate. Great little crossover 24 hour hog/dog rig.

Nice rifle, weight?

 

[JFComfort]

What are you guys shooting out of your 6.5mm shorties? I’ve run Varget + 123’s in the past but anymore use 130 grain factory ammo and hand load 140 grain Hybrids.

 

[Boatninja]

Just put this together: 16.5 inch proof 6.5 creedmoor bighorn prefit from altus shooting solutions
Bighorn tl3
Manners MCS-TA with mini chassis, altus badlands camo
triggertech special
Schmidt and Bender 5-20 ultra short
Badger Ordnance 34mm alloy rings standard 1 inch height
silencerco omega with area 419 attachment
7.8 lbs bare rifle
11.3 lbs with scope suppressor and bipod.
Only 30 rounds through it, all factory stuff and it's shooting pretty good can't wait to start with some load development. Getting 2540 fps with factory hornady 143 eldx's.

I assume the barrel was special order? I was told Proof wouldn't or couldn't make a barrel that short, that is exactly what I wanted in 6mm Creed, I have been very pleased with my 16.5" Criterion/Mausingfield, it does exactly what it was built for. Would you care to go into any details about whether it was a special order, price etc? I also have a .223 Rem with a 16.5" barrel that works great too, just not quite enough pop for deer.

 

[wade2big]

@Boatninja, Damn you shot a cheetah!!!!

 

[just browsing]

What are you guys shooting out of your 6.5mm shorties? I’ve run Varget + 123’s in the past but anymore use 130 grain factory ammo and hand load 140 grain Hybrids.

Joe how come you sold off your shorty? I have like 10 pics of that thing saved on my phone, RIP. You should be the one telling us what to shoot lol.

Building pretty much that same rifle, and am planning to shoot 130 JLKs over 2000MR. I’d be surprised if it didn’t go over 28.

Pics cuz she was a looker.

 

[B-P-UU]

I often hear the phrase “Truck gun.”
Continually wonder where it’s legal to shoot out of a truck?

Coyotes in ND can be shot out the window.

Everything else, I think you need to have a foot on the ground.

 

[just browsing]

Regarding cutting down existing barrels... has anyone noticed an appreciable difference in accuracy or any issues otherwise?

Aside from the obvious change to contour, any issues taking say, a 26” medium Palma barrel and cutting it down to 18”? Or is it preferred to buy a short barrel to begin with?

 

[JFComfort]

Joe how come you sold off your shorty? I have like 10 pics of that thing saved on my phone, RIP. You should be the one telling us what to shoot lol.

Building pretty much that same rifle, and am planning to shoot 130 JLKs over 2000MR. I’d be surprised if it didn’t go over 28.

Pics cuz she was a looker.

That rifle is an absolute shooter and off to a happy home. I ended us going with an AIAT and 16.5” 6.5 CM barrel. I really like the AI but realize it’s chunky!

I’m still very early into this barrel’s life at 130 rounds but it is getting a long with Factory Federal 130 Berger and hand loaded 140 Berger Hybrids + H4350. I will get more chronograph information once I get at least 200 rounds down the barrel.

 

[CStroud]

Regarding cutting down existing barrels... has anyone noticed an appreciable difference in accuracy or any issues otherwise?

Aside from the obvious change to contour, any issues taking say, a 26” medium Palma barrel and cutting it down to 18”? Or is it preferred to buy a short barrel to begin with?

I have had several barrels chopped from 24" to 16"-18" range, and have seen no degradation in accuracy.

 

[bab029]

Very nice! Any idea what it weighs without the scope or suppressor?

I’m not sure, but coming from a 15 lb gun it feels super handy even with the can.

 

[Boatninja]

Just FYI I lost 210 FPS from 24” to 16.5” barrel from speed on Hornady Match 108 ELD ammo published data.

 

[just browsing]

I think it’s safe to assume that factory ammo is probably not conducive to good speeds from shorter barrels...

 

[JFComfort]

I think it’s safe to assume that factory ammo is probably not conducive to good speeds from shorter barrels...

My initial chronograph #’s with the factory 130 ammo were disappointing (2,650 FPS) but I have hopes it will speed up some. I’ve seen the ammo do 2,740 FPS SD 19 with a 16.5”. I expect the 140 hand load to manage ~2,660 FPS.

 

[ashington]

I'm seeing 2615 out of my 16.5 Bartlein using factory 140 ELD's, definitely some room for improvement with a hand load.

 

[JFComfort]

I'm seeing 2615 out of my 16.5 Bartlein using factory 140 ELD's, definitely some room for improvement with a hand load.

View attachment 7027513

That’s not bad, it was 2,510 FPS through mine.

 

[Boatninja]

I think it’s safe to assume that factory ammo is probably not conducive to good speeds from shorter barrels...

Just an FYI post, someone here had predicted approximately 200 FPS loss with shorter barrel, they were spot on. Regarding factory ammo, just for giggles, I pulled the bullets on four factory rounds and found a full grain of spread in load weight of the four 6 mm Creedmore Hornady Match cartridges which in itself is a testament to superiority of handloading

 

[generalzip]

I've been down this road a few times and have found with the 6-6.5mm rounds you want a 19-20" barrel at least. If you go shorter a .30 cal with a fast powder and lighter bullets is your best bet. Ideally I think a 19-20" 6.5 CM is the best balance of length, ballistics, recoil, and terminal results. Loaded with a 147 and stuffed with RL26 it's almost cheating.

 

[Winny94]

I've been down this road a few times and have found with the 6-6.5mm rounds you want a 19-20" barrel at least. If you go shorter a .30 cal with a fast powder and lighter bullets is your best bet. Ideally I think a 19-20" 6.5 CM is the best balance of length, ballistics, recoil, and terminal results. Loaded with a 147 and stuffed with RL26 it's almost cheating.

No, you want a 19-20" barrel at least. Many of us want and have success w/ 16" barreled 6 & 6.5 rifles.

 

[generalzip]

No, you want a 19-20" barrel at least. Many of us want and have success w/ 16" barreled 6 & 6.5 rifles.

Of course you can when you'e shooting stuff inside 500 yards. JMO but if you're shooting those distances just go with an AR10. Semi auto and you generally don't need the precision of a bolt gun inside 500.

My point was that once you go below about 19-20" you start to exponentially lose velocity to the point of diminishing returns. The point of diminishing returns is subjective however. If you like your 16" gun that's great. Just sharing my experience and leanings from having been down this road before.

 

[stello1001]

Of course you can when you'e shooting stuff inside 500 yards. JMO but if you're shooting those distances just go with an AR10. Semi auto and you generally don't need the precision of a bolt gun inside 500.

My point was that once you go below about 19-20" you start to exponentially lose velocity to the point of diminishing returns. The point of diminishing returns is subjective however. If you like your 16" gun that's great. Just sharing my experience and leanings from having been down this road before.

What if for me, having a very handy and compact rifle with high maneuverability is critical and speed/range aren't important at all? Then I am really gaining a lot from cutting down to 16. In my case, it wouldn't be diminishing returns. In my case, I'd be gaining a lot.

 

[generalzip]

What if for me, having a very handy and compact rifle with high maneuverability is critical and speed/range aren't important at all? Then I am really gaining a lot from cutting down to 16. In my case, it wouldn't be diminishing returns. In my case, I'd be gaining a lot.

You're right. And I'd recommend building a quality AR that will accomplish everything you mentioned and give you a faster follow up shot. Again, not telling anyone what to do. Just offering my opinion on the matter. My results and opinions may differ from yours.

To me a bolt gun shines when extreme precision or longer shots are needed. Inside 400-500 yards a 18" AR10 in 6.5 creed will accomplish what most are describing here as the "use case".

 

[stello1001]

You're right. And I'd recommend building a quality AR that will accomplish everything you mentioned and give you a faster follow up shot. Again, not telling anyone what to do. Just offering my opinion on the matter. My results and opinions may differ from yours.

To me a bolt gun shines when extreme precision or longer shots are needed. Inside 400-500 yards a 18" AR10 in 6.5 creed will accomplish what most are describing here as the "use case".

Yup, I'm not disagreeing with you. If rapid follow up shots are needed, AR10 would be a major consideration.

 

[m6z]

Weight is also a concern for some of us. That AR10 is going to be heavier.

Some of these 16" Proof Barreled guns are 6-7 pounds with a nice carbon fiber stock.

 

[generalzip]

Weight is also a concern for some of us. That AR10 is going to be heavier.

Some of these 16" Proof Barreled guns are 6-7 pounds with a nice carbon fiber stock.

Not necessarily. There are some pretty damn light ARs out there today. A 16" proof AR10 with magnesium set etc will get you near that 7 lb mark. It is nice that the bolt guns you can load hotter generally which helps offset some of the downside of a shorter barrel.

 

[Winny94]

Of course you can when you'e shooting stuff inside 500 yards. JMO but if you're shooting those distances just go with an AR10. Semi auto and you generally don't need the precision of a bolt gun inside 500.

My point was that once you go below about 19-20" you start to exponentially lose velocity to the point of diminishing returns. The point of diminishing returns is subjective however. If you like your 16" gun that's great. Just sharing my experience and leanings from having been down this road before.

Who said anything about being limited to 500?
This guy can explain much better than I can. This is obviously one of those "if you don't get it, you don't get it" situations

 

[generalzip]

Who said anything about being limited to 500?
This guy can explain much better than I can. This is obviously one of those "if you don't get it, you don't get it" situations

I get it. However the majority of folks needing a short light (truck) rifle are hunting. I understand the need as I hog hunt out of a buggie and use a suppressed Desert tech 16" MDR. These short rifles absolutely have a place in the arsenal. A 6 or 6.5 creed with a 16" barrel is the equivalent of shooting game at long range with a 6BR. While there are some that OK with that, it's not enough energy for me to ethically use on an animal at longer range. If you want a sweet range toy, by all means make a SBR out of it lol.

My opinion is based off of my personal experience owning both short and longer barreled guns. When I'm in the stand or blind shooting a feeder inside 200 yards I always bring the short rifle. When I know there's a chance of a much further shot (over 500) I understand the limitations of the shorter barrels and opt for something more suited for that game (6.5 PRC, 28 nosler etc). I suppose it depends what you're shooting. I'm assuming most are shooting deer sized game and up with these rifles.

 

[JFComfort]

Who said anything about being limited to 500?
This guy can explain much better than I can. This is obviously one of those "if you don't get it, you don't get it" situations

6.5 Shorties are not for everyone but I have found them to be very capable and practical, especially when paired with a suppressor.

When the video was done we shot a lot of 120-123’s + Varget out of those rifles but now have been loading 140 Hybrids/Elite Hunters with H4350. When hunting with my Shorty I work to keep it inside 600-700 yards where I’m maintaining 1,000 ft/lbs energy threshold. We have also done some 20” 6.5 SAUM’s for elk.

 

[just browsing]

I think there is a balance with shorter barreled rifles. And it pretty much comes down to application. There is no perfect barrel length/caliber/bullet combo. It all depends on usage.

We all know that heavier projectiles, when pushed fast enough, offer obvious advantages over lighter projectiles all else being equal. With that being said, I don’t know if the heaviest projectiles from a short barrel necessarily offer the most in terms of performance.

Most relevant example would be 6.5mm 147gr vs. 130gr projectiles. The additional velocity that you get from the 130s really evens the playing field in terms of performance to 1k or so yards. Elevation, wind deflection, and even energy are - for all intents and purposes - the same from a 130@2800fps and a 147@2600fps. So again, I think depending on usage, you have to decide which combination are going to give you the best balance. If you’re looking for energy, sure, a .30 cal is probably going to be “better.” If energy makes little difference to you, then I think there are better options.

 

[Charger442]

I often hear the phrase “Truck gun.”
Continually wonder where it’s legal to shoot out of a truck?

remember that Surgeon you sold me around Christmas time? Yeah, i will be shooting something with it out of my truck. Its my property, my truck and hogs can be shot using any legal means, from truck, helocopter, at night, spotlight, thermal, NV.... you name it. My means will be with a 16.5" barreled Surgeon 308, anytime one jumps out.

 

[RTH1800]

I am not opposed to truck shooting. I was just curious where it could be done. That heavy, short barrel will be perfect and recoil very low due to the weight.

 

[Charger442]

I am not opposed to truck shooting. I was just curious where it could be done. That heavy, short barrel will be perfect and recoil very low due to the weight.

the short barrel, with a can, sits nicely muzzle down on the passenger floorboard , with stock leaning on the arm rest and wedged between the passenger seat and console. Drivers side mirror makes an excellent rest.

 

[Boatninja]

I am not opposed to truck shooting. I was just curious where it could be done. That heavy, short barrel will be perfect and recoil very low due to the weight.

I personally am in South Texas hunting on large and small intensely managed whitetail ranches. Predators- coyotes, bobcats and increasingly feral hogs are intensely managed as also as they are the top predators for white tails. Quick,one shot only opportunities where the gun needs to get out the window quick and on target. For obvious reasons a suppressor is absolutely an advantage in both not spooking game and the lack of opportunity to don ear protection, on smaller ranches a suppressor is a must, I like the short barrel with a suppressor so much I have a bolt .22, .223 and 6mm Creed in 16.5” and all suppressed. As soon as I get details I’m ordering a Proof Research barrel in 16.5 and probably 6mm Creedmore, but maybe .22 Creedmore to try to make the out the window process smoother and faster and more efficient I’m thinking the .22 Creedy just might dethrone the 22-250 as the the king of S Texas truck guns.
That was very long winded, but why in the world would anyone not want to have a crazy accurate rifle to do it with????????

 

[generalzip]

I’d do some research on the 22 creed and the bullet you want to shoot. A lot of people blowing up bullets with it. Not to mention I wouldn’t expect more than 1000 rounds of barrel life maybe a little more based on your one shot at a time style.

 

[Buck Lawman]

I assume the barrel was special order? I was told Proof wouldn't or couldn't make a barrel that short, that is exactly what I wanted in 6mm Creed, I have been very pleased with my 16.5" Criterion/Mausingfield, it does exactly what it was built for. Would you care to go into any details about whether it was a special order, price etc? I also have a .223 Rem with a 16.5" barrel that works great too, just not quite enough pop for deer.

I got mine from altus shooting solutions, formerly core shooting. I called to order the 16.5 proof barrel and had them make a bighorn pre-fit out of it. Looks like they have a 6mm 16.5 in stock as of this post. Good luck, i'm loving mine!

 

[RTH1800]

I’d do some research on the 22 creed and the bullet you want to shoot. A lot of people blowing up bullets with it. Not to mention I wouldn’t expect more than 1000 rounds of barrel life maybe a little more based on your one shot at a time style.

I also have a “one shot at a time style”.
My barrel life far exceeds the numbers others often state.
This with very stringent accuracy requirements.

 

[Boatninja]

I’d do some research on the 22 creed and the bullet you want to shoot. A lot of people blowing up bullets with it. Not to mention I wouldn’t expect more than 1000 rounds of barrel life maybe a little more based on your one shot at a time style.

I would like any hard info I can get, I’m seriously thinking about buying a reamer just to build one. I have a .220 Swift that’s shot out, I’m wondering if I can ream to .22 Creedmore any of you guys want to chime in?

 

[generalzip]

I would like any hard info I can get, I’m seriously thinking about buying a reamer just to build one. I have a .220 Swift that’s shot out, I’m wondering if I can ream to .22 Creedmore any of you guys want to chime in?

You’ll need to chop 2-3 inches off your barrel to do what you propose. That’s easy for a straight taper (m24, heavy varmint, mtu) barrel but more complicated with other sported or Palma profiles because you may not have enough shank. Also you’ll lose 3 inches of barrel so ask yourself if that will be long enough. You can’t simply just run a reamer in if they barrel is shot out.

As for info on blowing bullets up you need to find the twist of barrel you’re going to shoot, the expected velocity and use an online calculator to determine the rpm of the bullet. For the heavier bullets you’d be shooting in a 22 Creedmoor they will usually blow up a bit past 300k rpm. If you’re shooting a 88 eld for example you’ll need a 7 twist likely to stabilize. However at 22 creed velocities you’ll probably be around 310k rpm. There’s been a lot of reports of the 22 creed blowing up the heavier bullets in the faster twist barrels. The 6 creed will do just about everything the 22 creed will do honestly with better barrel life and better terminal ballistics. Shoot a 105 Berger at 3100 FPS or a similar bullet.

 

[Boatninja]

I got mine from altus shooting solutions, formerly core shooting. I called to order the 16.5 proof barrel and had them make a bighorn pre-fit out of it. Looks like they have a 6mm 16.5 in stock as of this post. Good luck, i'm loving mine!

I got mine from altus shooting solutions, formerly core shooting. I called to order the 16.5 proof barrel and had them make a bighorn pre-fit out of it. Looks like they have a 6mm 16.5 in stock as of this post. Good luck, i'm loving mine!

Do you have an address or link

 

[Winny94]

Do you have an address or link

its on their website
https://www.altusshooting.com/products/proof-research-carbon-fiber-bolt-action-barrel-6mm

 

[ratrod54]

Obviously a lot of talk about 6.5 with the 16.5” barrel. Anyone done a 7mm-08 in same length? Pros and cons? Have a creedmoor with a 23” barrel but WANT a 7mm-08 for some damn reason.

 

[perttime]

I personally am in South Texas hunting on large and small intensely managed whitetail ranches. Predators- coyotes, bobcats and increasingly feral hogs are intensely managed as also as they are the top predators for white tails. Quick,one shot only opportunities where the gun needs to get out the window quick and on target. ...

In my corner of the world, the people interested in short rifles are mainly hunters who get to move through tight vegetation while handling one or more dogs.

Shooting from a vehicle, or even from a road, is a aerios NO NO, with few exceptions like finishing a wounded animal. Even having a loaded firearm in a vehicle, or a firearm visible from the outside, is an offense.

You need to know what the rules are where you are.

 

[Targetshooter.co.uk]

I'm picking up a used Rem700P and I am considering chopping the barrel back to 16 inches. Anyone have a shorty bolt action? Can you post pics? Specs? Thanks

 

[Targetshooter.co.uk]

 

[Boatninja]

Obviously a lot of talk about 6.5 with the 16.5” barrel. Anyone done a 7mm-08 in same length? Pros and cons? Have a creedmoor with a 23” barrel but WANT a 7mm-08 for some damn reason.

Plenty of people will tell you why you don’t want one and my reply would be because I don’t have one, which for me anyway is reason enough. Just curious what kind of game you are shooting?

 

[Jsmith410]

Re: 16-18 inch shorty rifles

My 18"

That’s a good looking rifle.

 

[Boatninja]

16.5 .223, built this one just for convenience and predators, liked it so much I built a 6mm Creedmore to have enough POP for dee

r

 

[Boatninja]

16.5” 6mm Creedmore, Criterion barrel, Mausingfield action, Vortex 6-25x50, Magpul Hunter stock, Silencerco Harvester supressor, 45'' OAL.