20 shot load test

[Bubb]

Okay been wanting to do this for while and got
It squeezed in today. I see all you guys doing a lot
Of diffrent types of load development types. Some
Requiring a lot of shooting... As we know ammo supply's
Are getting $$ and I was taught a way I'd like to pass on.
This is a process for finding a best load per powder bullet primer
Combo. You can find a given load in about 20 rounds or one box.
1. Pick a powder, bullet, primer (easy)
2. Load one each in .3 increments from start to max.

3. Shoot ladder over chronograph get velocitys, and
your magic node will be there.
4. Pick in middle of your node, and load 3- 5 shot groups in increasing
OAL and shoot for group to see which is best.
[/URL
This is the to be the best (this) load comb can do....
It's not hard it doesn't take long and there's a .5 load
I know it's crazy, I'm crazy save a lot of powder and try it?? Prove
Me wrong! Oh and as for shooting over chronograph, no target is
Needed to confuse you, just the numbers.....

 

[mdmp5]

In my opinion, your node stretches to the next powder charge of 41.5.

 

[Bubb]

Mijp5 at 41.5 your leaving the node. If you used this charge on a warm day your velocities would be higher and your group
Would open up quicker... If you split the node environment changes with a temp stable powder shouldn't bother you. But
Extreme powders that are temp sensitive you can still get pulled out of a node.

 

[Bubb]

Oh my friend Ken showed me this too a
6 McSmalley goes 3200+ and the shoulder
Was designed by a solid state jet file guy from
NASA... Shoots .0 at 200 yards he is all about
Things accurate.

 

[mdmp5]

Mijp5 at 41.5 your leaving the node. If you used this charge on a warm day your velocities would be higher and your group
Would open up quicker... If you split the node environment changes with a temp stable powder shouldn't bother you. But
Extreme powders that are temp sensitive you can still get pulled out of a node.

You have to take into account a standard error. If you shot the same 3 charges again, I would lay major odds that your velocities will be all different. 2962 is close enough to 2956 that it can be considered the same. Like I said, if you can produce 2 exact velocities again with those 2 charges, it would be quite an anomaly. I would bet that the 2 shots would most likely be at least 6 fps apart from one another.

 

[mdmp5]

Another thing I forgot to mention, is that with a 40 gr charge, a node of 0.3 grains is pretty small. Nodes should be expected to be a little wider than that. Otherwise, you are pretty much picking a charge that seemingly shoots well, and that kind of defeats the purpose of OCW and ladder tests. Personally, I tried the whole OCW thing, and got more messed up data than help. I just settled with most of my loads just by picking a charge that seems to work well and stuck with it. I do advocate using a ladder test though if you have the means. I believe it provides for less frustration and waste of ammo.

 

[Bubb]

If you use a ladder test and rely on placement of the shot what's to say you didn't push or pull every shot? Or envirmental conditions don't mess up every other shot? What would the ladder tell you? The whole ladder could be a lie? Just aking.. But I do agree on small node, as I mentioned this gives best load per bullet powder combo. A different powder could give better results. As per duplicates, I have a 300 win mag that brass trimmed is sorted by weight. 220 Smk sorted by weight it will shoot strings of 3-4 duplicates...

 

[mdmp5]

Your test is essentially a ladder test, except you are using velocities as an endpoint rather than impacts.

 

[dsnipe]

Good info Bubb. Great to see other people's methods. Right wrong win lose or draw its another way to do it. I will give it a shot. Thanks brother very good info.

 

[Bubb]

Mijp5 of course it's a ladder test of sorts, but this way
Only one shot per powder weight is required. A lot of guys
Shoot ladders. 200 yards even farther. You have a much
Greater chance at pulled or pushed shots throwing off results.
This is pretty simple, just numbers!

 

[Clark]

I have never found the ladder method data to be reproducible.

 

[Bubb]

Clark could you explain why? I'm just passing on what seamed to work for me and was taught to me by a legend in the shooting industry. I'm just trying to save bullets and powder for guys? There could be all sorts of reasons you couldn't reproduce a ladder ....

 

[Clark]

I have gone to the range 100 times with 50 rifles and 50 scopes and hundreds of hand loads and never seen one powder charge shoot better than another.

 

[Bubb]

I have gone to the range 100 times with 50 rifles and 50 scopes and hundreds of hand loads and never seen one powder charge shoot better than another.

I think you should try fishing......

 

[Bill Larson]

Good info..........you make it sound simple.....but any chronographs I`ve seen are finicky to say the least. I own 2...an Ohler 35P and a magneto-speed.....
what happens if you need at least a 1/4" MOA gun to compete...... do you switch powders/bullets at this point.... change seating depth...change primers....?????.... I shoot LR (600-1400 yds.) and short range (100-500 yds.)..... charge weights have to be within .02 grains....( hundredths not tenths )..... and the longer the bullets are out in the wind.... the more they will get pushed off target.....

 

[Clark]

I think you should try fishing......

Here is something just as phony as the ladder method, hundreds of years old, and will be around hundreds of years after the ladder method is forgotten:
Dowsing - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

 

[Bubb]

Good info..........you make it sound simple.....but any chronographs I`ve seen are finicky to say the least. I own 2...an Ohler 35P and a magneto-speed.....
what happens if you need at least a 1/4" MOA gun to compete...... do you switch powders/bullets at this point.... change seating depth...change primers....?????.... I shoot LR (600-1400 yds.) and short range (100-500 yds.)..... charge weights have to be within .02 grains....( hundredths not tenths )..... and the longer the bullets are out in the wind.... the more they will get pushed off target.....

Bill this method is a quick way to weed out what you don't want. Either that combo will preform or it won't. Try the next powder. Some one on here just said he loaded 100 rounds to test???? I could of tried 4 powders in that many shots. Who do you think would of been closer to finding a 1/4 load? It's a easy way to find a given node and test it for accuracy. Doesn't mean it'll be the holly Grail load for that gun. Like I said for a given powdered, primer, bullet combo it will show you what it will do quicker... If it doesn't work move on.... Trying to put more bullets down range won't change what that load does...... Wouldn't you want to be closer to finding your 1/4 load than stuck on trying to make a load shoot that doesnt... By the way guys this isn't my method.... This was taught to me by Ken Markle of K&M reloading supply's. He makes supper high end dies and reloading gear. He will for get more about reloading that most of us will ever know... His guns shoot in .0's at 200 yards his buddy's are Sid Goodling one of the best smiths in the country. And these guys are no buddy's fool. Ken as pattens on a lot of the dies we use. Their his design... He is my neighbor and a close friend. I've talked at length with him about all the other methods ocw, round robin, distance ladder test. He said I quote " made by, and marketed by people in industry to sell more powder and bullets!" There's a quicker way........
I'm only trying to shed light on this method to help you stream line your process and weed out a lot of useless shooting. And as per your chronograph being if inky shoot the ladder twice! Numbers might be a little diff but if it still points out the node your good??

 

[Bubb]

Here is something just as phony as the ladder method, hundreds of years old, and will be around hundreds of years after the ladder method is forgotten:
Dowsing - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Dowsing....... I think for your intentions store bought ammo will be fine..

 

[Clark]

Dowsing....... I think for your intentions store bought ammo will be fine..

I handload; 19 Badger,.222, .223, 22-250, 6mmBR, .243, 6mmRem, 25acp, 25-20, 25/35, 250/3000, 257Roberts, 257 Robert Ackley Improved, 257 Robert Ackley Improved rimmed, 25-06, 260Rem, 6.5x55, 6.5-06, 270, 7x57mm, 7mm Rem mag, 32acp, 32sw, 32S&WLong, 32-20, 7.62x25mm, 30 Mauser, 30-30, 303Sav, 300Sav, 7.62x39mm, 308, 7.5Swiss, 30-06, 300WM, 303Brit,7.62x54R, 8x57mm, 338WM, .380, 9x19mm, 9x23mm, 357 Sig, 38 sp, 357 mag, 38sw, 40sw, 10mm, 38/40, 10.4mm, 401 power mag, 41 Colt, 44mag, 45acp, 45Colt, 455 Eley, .410, 45/70, 45/70 case filled, 50CB and 12 ga.

 

[mdmp5]

Bill this method is a quick way to weed out what you don't want. Either that combo will preform or it won't. Try the next powder. Some one on here just said he loaded 100 rounds to test???? I could of tried 4 powders in that many shots. Who do you think would of been closer to finding a 1/4 load? It's a easy way to find a given node and test it for accuracy. Doesn't mean it'll be the holly Grail load for that gun. Like I said for a given powdered, primer, bullet combo it will show you what it will do quicker... If it doesn't work move on.... Trying to put more bullets down range won't change what that load does...... Wouldn't you want to be closer to finding your 1/4 load than stuck on trying to make a load shoot that doesnt... By the way guys this isn't my method.... This was taught to me by Ken Markle of K&M reloading supply's. He makes supper high end dies and reloading gear. He will for get more about reloading that most of us will ever know... His guns shoot in .0's at 200 yards his buddy's are Sid Goodling one of the best smiths in the country. And these guys are no buddy's fool. Ken as pattens on a lot of the dies we use. Their his design... He is my neighbor and a close friend. I've talked at length with him about all the other methods ocw, round robin, distance ladder test. He said I quote " made by, and marketed by people in industry to sell more powder and bullets!" There's a quicker way........
I'm only trying to shed light on this method to help you stream line your process and weed out a lot of useless shooting. And as per your chronograph being if inky shoot the ladder twice! Numbers might be a little diff but if it still points out the node your good??

Bubb, your method is indeed easy to perform, eliminates shooter error and does help find points of charge resilience. However, if you subscribe to shock wave theory, you could indeed arrive at a stable charge, but if that velocity happens to be putting the projectile at the muzzle during wave interference, the points of impact at range will be other than predicted. So you need to find the resilient charge with a velocity in between points of interference. From what I have seen from the methods of testing employed today, there are usually 2 "nodes" in the usable velocity/charge range.

I am not trying to convince or sell you or anyone else the concept of shock wave theory; I do have my doubts as it is not something that can be seen or demonstrated beyond a reasonable doubt. But it is a theory; a model that illustrates a concept to explain why some velocities provide greater precision, whilst other velocities may not. In the absence of an X factor (shock wave interference), one would expect 5 bullets with similar velocities to strike the exact same point in the absence of shooter error. However, in the past I have shot 10 rounds of 308 through a chronograph with an extreme spread of 10, yet the paper didn't quite reflect the precision of my hand loads. I have shot better groups with higher ES, so there is more to the story than velocity.

That being said, I do think that your method is indeed a decent one, and it does help narrow down the quest for the right charge.

 

[Bubb]

There is always a high and a low node, you can and probably should test both! One could be more
Accurate than the other. But you won't get accuracy between nodes . As for low ES loads not shooting. We all have off days
But like I've said this method won't pick you holly grail load but weed out ones
So you can find it faster. Oh and the 10 shots with low extreme spread that didn't group... Shooting that load at distance wouldn't of showed you the low extreme spread on paper?? You would only know that buy the numbers! But that load with a seating death test might really group?!? Did you do a seating ladder test on it!

 

[mdmp5]

There is always a high and a low node, you can and probably should test both! One could be more
Accurate than the other. But you won't get accuracy between nodes . As for low ES loads not shooting. We all have off days
But like I've said this method won't pick you holly grail load but weed out ones
So you can find it faster. Oh and the 10 shots with low extreme spread that didn't group... Shooting that load at distance wouldn't of showed you the low extreme spread on paper?? You would only know that buy the numbers! But that load with a seating death test might really group?!? Did you do a seating ladder test on it!

I wasn't necessarily saying that the low ES session groupings were bad, but they certainly weren't my best. My point was that I have shot better groupings with some funky ES before. At distance, that low ES group would not have yielded a good grouping, if it was indeed a velocity causing the bullet to be deflected upon exit. To the best of my memory, I did change that charge until I got better performance down range and settled on it. I could waste my time on an endless quest searching for the perfect load, but I hate wasting components, and load development is more work than fun at the less than frequent range sessions I am afforded. In the future, I hope to confirm and qualify the load I settled on, but if I cannot, then I will have to do some more work. I will try your method, partnered with a ladder test.

 

[Bubb]

Please try it... I'm wanting to know how this method does for other people in different calibers.... I used it twice for a 300'weatherby, and my daughters .243 My weatherby was second powder found a load, Quinn's gun was first powder... I'd love to see others findings!!! Just really want to work with finding how good or bad this is??? Is it a tool the hide can use? So until we get some people trying it I won't hold my breath... But I do think its worth a try guys....

 

[mdmp5]

Well for now, keep using it if it is working well for you. If it works for you, and others don't want to try it, then all that does is give you an advantage.

 

[clrems77]

I'm gonna try this Bubb and I'll get back to you. After all, what's another 20 rounds if it really can help me. If not, it's not too much time and products lost! Thanks for the chance to try something new!

 

[morganlamprecht]

Me and a couple others are gunna try this bubb and see how it works for new loads and see if it corresponds to known good loads, can always try something new, thanks

 

[Goomer214]

Here is something just as phony as the ladder method, hundreds of years old, and will be around hundreds of years after the ladder method is forgotten:
Dowsing - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Dowsing works I've seen it done many times with success
As far as reproducing exact velocities that doesn't mater
if you can't understand how this technique works then u don't understand testing fundamentals

 

[Clark]

Dowsing works I've seen it done many times with success
As far as reproducing exact velocities that doesn't mater
if you can't understand how this technique works then u don't understand testing fundamentals

I started designing tests with Model A Ford spark coil and a Marx electric train transformer when I was 8 years old in 1959.
The first test design I ever got paid to write was the Boeing 767 public address amplifier in 1980.
Since then I have filled up a lot of lab books with test results.
These days we share our test plans, procedures, and data on private wiki pages.
Or I would if I still worked. The last test I got paid to design was in 2008.
Now I am strictly amateur doing lots of testing on guns.
Somewhere in SH there must be some testing I have done to verify my max torque calculations for scope mount screws.
..Some process I designed for calibrating torque wrenches.

 

[Benchguy57]

20 shot load test

I think it's worth a shot (pun intended)
I appreciate the info as I only shoot premium bullets for hunting, less waste is an a+ in my book.

Thanks for sharing.



Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[KYpatriot]

I like the ocw method better than the ladder test, it has worked for me.

As far as dowsing, I can find buried water lines easily by dowsing and have done so many times. I'm not saying I have mystical powers or anything, because while not everyone seems to be able to do it, it is by no means uncommon as when I have shown the technique to friends usually half of them at least can do it. I'm sure there is a scientific reason for it that is not well understood at the moment but is there nonetheless.

 

[KYpatriot]

Clark not sure what you mean by "not seen one powder charge shoot better than another" do you mean to say that powder charge does not affect precision? I have done several ocw tests that clearly show a sine wave like pattern in group size, repeatably. How else would such an observation be explained?

 

[Bubb]

Great guys!!! I'm also on the road to learning more. I also want to learn as much as I can about super high end hand loads. Seriously I have two of the best close by who have built guns for special forces, won 1000 yard matches, and builds more customs reloading stuff than you can imagine. These guys know their stuff. They let me hang around and shed light on my dumb questions. These guys talk a lot about what happens when the primer is hit. Between there and the bullet leaving the case. How much is there to talk about on that topic.... ALOT! Ken thinks more neck tension is better. To light a tension and the bullet can move on primer pressure ignition, causing erratic seating deaths, velocity changes? He likes the bullet to stay put till powder ignition. Just food for thought.... Any who, let's test this thing together shall we?.. Let's have a group test different calibers and see what our findings are?. It either works for us and we are on to something or it has flaws..... Let's get to work. Of course lets do it the same... Post ladder velocitys and nodes. **** note Ken shoots this ladders over the chrono in the back yard into a dirt pile no target... If that help then seating ladder pick best out of that then .2 ladder in that just to see if it tightens more cause you changed seating. Let's get cracking and having fun with out results.

 

[Conrad]

I think this is a cool thread. I think everyone would like to develop a load in as few rounds as possible. I for one don't particularly enjoy load development.

I'm in the middle of working up a load with the 105 hybrids in my 6xc. Yesterday I shot an OCW test, and also wanted to grab some velocities and then shoot a ladder test at 350 yards. The wind was blowing up to 20 mph by the time I got to my spot so I shot into it, for what that is worth. I was having problems with my magnetospeed reading so I didn't get as many velocity points as I wanted. I changed cords and started getting some readings provided I set the sensitivity to 4 or so. Side note, I changed the batteries last night and solved that issue of late. Today, it read fine, with brake and everything. My OCW test is OK, and I probably should have started it lower, but I had an idea of what charges would get me the velocities I was after. I'm looking for accuracy at 2950+, but I'd like to keep pressures down so I will probably not pick the high node to load at.

After shooting yesterday I decided to load up 10 rounds 39gr to 41.7gr and simply get velocities. I figured I might as well put bullets on paper though so I put a target at 400 yards for another ladder test. I painted my tips with sharpies and this worked out great because today's mirage made it tough to see bullet holes. Just paint the tips to the o-gives, and place a blank sheet behind your target in case you can't decipher the color if you have a hit in the black. Sometimes you can, sometimes you can't. If you run out of colors you can paint 1/2 blue and 1/2 red, etc. on the bullet and it will show up just fine on the paper.

Anyway, what I found is that when I plot the velocity nodes, they seem to match up pretty close with the OCW test. Below are some results. I'm not the best at shooting groups, and with the strong wind and shooting on the side of the hill I probably should have set up in a better spot for the OCW test. I think the 40gr group could be much improved. The large random group was me trouble shooting the chronograph with other rounds.

All shots felt good today during the 400 yard velocity/ladder test as I was on a nice flat piece of grass, and had relatively steady crosswind. Mirage could have played a small factor though today.

I will probably choose to load at 40.3gr and adjust seating depth. There appears to be another node around 41. 41.4, slight extractor mark and a bit sticky bolt. 41.7 extractor mark and harder bolt lift. I knew I didn't want to try for a load in that upper range, but I decided to get the data.

 

[dcnyli]

I gave this a try yesterday from 42g-45g(blew out a primer), and then shot some 5shot groups, data matched pretty damn close and so did the groupings. I found a node and I'm going to explore it more

42.0g 2669
42.3g 2696
42.6g 2708
42.9g 2702
43.2g 2738
43.5g 2753
43.8g 2776
44.1g 2788
44.4g 2810(difficult extraction)
44.7g 2834(i should stopped)
45.0g 2880(primer went to primer heaven)

while the weather was ugly(rain, wind and dense mist/fog) I am very happy with my first go round with reloading/testing with my very beginner shooting skills. This test helps cut to the meat quicker for me at least, thanks for sharing. I only had 42.3/42.5/43/43.5 loaded up in 5 round groups, and 42.5 shows the post promise, though the vertical on the 43&43.5 is close the overall group at 42.5 is closer. My damn hands were frozen so there's a good amount of my error here…

 

[Jcub]

Tag

 

[waveslayer]

I like the 42.5. Still in the node there it looks like and grouped well.

 

[Bubb]

I gave this a try yesterday from 42g-45g(blew out a primer), and then shot some 5shot groups, data matched pretty damn close and so did the groupings. I found a node and I'm going to explore it more

42.0g 2669
42.3g 2696
42.6g 2708
42.9g 2702
43.2g 2738
43.5g 2753
43.8g 2776
44.1g 2788
44.4g 2810(difficult extraction)
44.7g 2834(i should stopped)
45.0g 2880(primer went to primer heaven)

while the weather was ugly(rain, wind and dense mist/fog) I am very happy with my first go round with reloading/testing with my very beginner shooting skills. This test helps cut to the meat quicker for me at least, thanks for sharing. I only had 42.3/42.5/43/43.5 loaded up in 5 round groups, and 42.5 shows the post promise, though the vertical on the 43&43.5 is close the overall group at 42.5 is closer. My damn hands were frozen so there's a good amount of my error here…

Now load three ladders all loaded with 42.5 but in three different OAL . It's working for you so far great shooting,

 

[clrems77]

Chrono run today turned out with a match! Unfortunately, it didnt match my OCW test.

According to the above chrono measurements, my node would be in the 43.5-43.8 grains showing at 2619 fps. I was hoping it would have been in the higher node I ran my OCW test between 44.4-46.2,but it wasnt. Here is the link to my OCW test.
http://www.snipershide.com/shooting...7-help-ocw-test-what-do-next.html#post3042761

Any advice would be appreciated!

 

[dcnyli]

Now load three ladders all loaded with 42.5 but in three different OAL . It's working for you so far great shooting,

Thank you. I was going to mess around with some groups in the 42.5-42.9 area, then dive into OAL's, does that make sense also?

 

[Conrad]

Did my attachments show up in my above post?

Thanks.



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[Bubb]

Thank you. I was going to mess around with some groups in the 42.5-42.9 area, then dive into OAL's, does that make sense also?

Loading and shooting a group yet wouldn't give you the full picture. You know your in the node, loading a seating ladder now will give you your best seating death in that node... Then after you find your best seating depth play around with a small say .2 ladder for .6 tenth just to see if it tightens up more. Cause the seating depth changes pessure and velocity, so that last little latter could really get the sweet spot of OAL and velocity... Don't do more than you need cause this is a stream line for one powder combo. It's like trying to polish a turd by shooting a lot more bullets?!? This method is a quick look at what's there... When you do the OAL ladder it's then you'll see if you got something to play with... If not next powder.

 

[Bubb]

I think this is a cool thread. I think everyone would like to develop a load in as few rounds as possible. I for one don't particularly enjoy load development.

I'm in the middle of working up a load with the 105 hybrids in my 6xc. Yesterday I shot an OCW test, and also wanted to grab some velocities and then shoot a ladder test at 350 yards. The wind was blowing up to 20 mph by the time I got to my spot so I shot into it, for what that is worth. I was having problems with my magnetospeed reading so I didn't get as many velocity points as I wanted. I changed cords and started getting some readings provided I set the sensitivity to 4 or so. Side note, I changed the batteries last night and solved that issue of late. Today, it read fine, with brake and everything. My OCW test is OK, and I probably should have started it lower, but I had an idea of what charges would get me the velocities I was after. I'm looking for accuracy at 2950+, but I'd like to keep pressures down so I will probably not pick the high node to load at.

After shooting yesterday I decided to load up 10 rounds 39gr to 41.7gr and simply get velocities. I figured I might as well put bullets on paper though so I put a target at 400 yards for another ladder test. I painted my tips with sharpies and this worked out great because today's mirage made it tough to see bullet holes. Just paint the tips to the o-gives, and place a blank sheet behind your target in case you can't decipher the color if you have a hit in the black. Sometimes you can, sometimes you can't. If you run out of colors you can paint 1/2 blue and 1/2 red, etc. on the bullet and it will show up just fine on the paper.

Anyway, what I found is that when I plot the velocity nodes, they seem to match up pretty close with the OCW test. Below are some results. I'm not the best at shooting groups, and with the strong wind and shooting on the side of the hill I probably should have set up in a better spot for the OCW test. I think the 40gr group could be much improved. The large random group was me trouble shooting the chronograph with other rounds.

All shots felt good today during the 400 yard velocity/ladder test as I was on a nice flat piece of grass, and had relatively steady crosswind. Mirage could have played a small factor though today.

I will probably choose to load at 40.3gr and adjust seating depth. There appears to be another node around 41. 41.4, slight extractor mark and a bit sticky bolt. 41.7 extractor mark and harder bolt lift. I knew I didn't want to try for a load in that upper range, but I decided to get the data.

View attachment 34127View attachment 34125View attachment 34126

Conrad I'm no expert here just passing along what my old friend has been teaching me. The problem he says with trying to find a node like you did with the yellow dot target. What if you had a bad day on trigger? What if you pushed and pulled a few shots? It would be much harder to see a node, same goes for vertical ladders at distance... Just one shot per load in your ladder, if ya want do it twice to double check the numbers.... Just need the numbers always shoot over a chronograph... I know thou yours was acting up, but that's what he tells me.

 

[Conrad]

I was getting velocities and figures I might as well do a ladder too. Next step will be to play with oal based on the velocity test. I was just curious how all 3 of these methods might compliment each other. No doubt velocity nodes could save a lot of time.


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[Bubb]

Chrono run today turned out with a match! Unfortunately, it didnt match my OCW test.

According to the above chrono measurements, my node would be in the 43.5-43.8 grains showing at 2619 fps. I was hoping it would have been in the higher node I ran my OCW test between 44.4-46.2,but it wasnt. Here is the link to my OCW test.
http://www.snipershide.com/shooting...7-help-ocw-test-what-do-next.html#post3042761

Any advice would be appreciated!

View attachment 34209

Clrems if you shot one round each and found that node! Perfect that's what I'm talking about. Just split that node and go right to OAL test. Awesome work, and keeping it simple.

 

[clrems77]

Clrems if you shot one round each and found that node! Perfect that's what I'm talking about. Just split that node and go right to OAL test. Awesome work, and keeping it simple.

Hey Bubb,
If I were to choose a higher fps node such as 45-45.3, would the 5 fps difference still qualify as being a "good" node ? Not sure how much of a difference the 100fps would make, but I would prefer the faster of the two if that node would work.

 

[dcnyli]

Loading and shooting a group yet wouldn't give you the full picture. You know your in the node, loading a seating ladder now will give you your best seating death in that node... Then after you find your best seating depth play around with a small say .2 ladder for .6 tenth just to see if it tightens up more. Cause the seating depth changes pessure and velocity, so that last little latter could really get the sweet spot of OAL and velocity... Don't do more than you need cause this is a stream line for one powder combo. It's like trying to polish a turd by shooting a lot more bullets?!? This method is a quick look at what's there... When you do the OAL ladder it's then you'll see if you got something to play with... If not next powder.

got it, will report back and thank you again not only for the thread but your assistance.

 

[Bubb]

Hey Bubb,
If I were to choose a higher fps node such as 45-45.3, would the 5 fps difference still qualify as being a "good" node ? Not sure how much of a difference the 100fps would make, but I would prefer the faster of the two if that node would work.

We'll, as for faster nodes being more accurate? I'm answering this not on experience but on reading, and others. Usually the slower
Node is more accurate, not always but usually. You need to
Deside what your trying to do ? Short range go for
The lower if more accurate. If your making a long range
Load keep speed in mind you need it. And remember this is a stream
Line test.. If you pick the higher node test it then. But your next
Powder you choose could slightly faster and more accurate! But looks
Like things are falling in place for you...

 

[Bubb]

The gods have shined down on me.... After a 45min one way trip last night I was rewarded with a fresh one pound can of
Retumbo.... Let the loading begin..... As I stated before I'm going to use 4 powders. And do all the tests, mine, distance ladder, and OWC. What I'll be trying to find is if any of the testes lead me in a different direction than the others. Try to see if one is better some how than the others....I'll post as much as I can and be as precise as I can... We will crack this egg together. My end goal will be a load of 1/2" or better. The 7mm mag isn't a small super accurate load so for this testing I feel that is a good achievable goal. Any pre testing comments or try this....let me know. This will be shot with a new tikka t3 which is getting the works from short action customs right now. Should be getting back end of the week....

 

[knockemdown]

Handload Development Strategy
This is a good read on rapid load development, written by a very knowledgeable friend of mine.
Digest it, and see if/where/how you might use some of the info in your own reloading practices...

 

[Bubb]

Knockdown, that was the first time I ever read that.
He is outlining pretty much exsactly what I'm doing. Load
Incumbents .2-.3 ladders for 10 shots, over chronograph.
The clusters he is talking about finding is a node. We are
On pretty much the same page here... But good stuff thanks
For the link.