What is the diameter of the neck with seated bullet? Did you have to neck turn? Doughnuts? What is the neck size of the reamer you used?.219 at 300 asl
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What is the diameter of the neck with seated bullet? Did you have to neck turn? Doughnuts? What is the neck size of the reamer you used?.219 at 300 asl
How thick were the the Peterson before turning? I despise turning hundreds up pieces of brass and then lose them at matches. How many firings do you have on them? Have you lost any to loose primer pockets?Dia. With bullet seated .249
Turned necks to .012
Reamer is .253 neck. 100 freebore
I turned into the neck so I don't have to worry about them. I will say since I knew my neck diameter I turned necks while I was waiting for my barrel. I'm using Peterson brass because lapua 6br is nonexistent.
I noticed Alpha has a 22 Dasher reamer with a .169” free bore. Maybe this is the way to go? I wonder if I could use my 4166 with this or would need a slower burning powder?A 22 dasher with maybe. 160 freebore I think would be badass.
I noticed Alpha has a 22 Dasher reamer with a .169” free bore. Maybe this is the way to go? I wonder if I could use my 4166 with this or would need a slower burning powder?
Wow, and here I am running RL23 in my 22GT with 88s at 3055. But, GRT says it’s only about 49K PSI.
I may have to give it a shot in my 6 GT too.
That sounds promising, especially when I have 24 pounds of it. Thanks for the info!33.4 is my high node in 22GT... low node one hole accuracy is 32gr 3097
I saw no pressure until 35gr.. but QL has 33.5 just over 62,000 so I wouldn't go any higher than that
That's a very mild load; I'd expect you could get 3100 easily out of that configuration.My dear loving wife went yard / garage sale shopping while i went fishing and she came back with over 1200 Hornady 75 A Max's , at a very very good price.
I haven't been able to find much data but think I want to keep the velocity around 2900 FPS out of a 26" 1-8 tube .
I don't know, but Hornady themselves developed the ELD-M tip due to tips melting downrange, as observed by radar I believe.I may be wrong , and don't know if these were early or late production , but recall reading about tips on some A Max calibers doing weird things like melting at high velocities ? got one load listing of 29.5 of Varget they list as MAX at 3150 fps.
A couple thoughts:Anyone have this happen before? My 22 BRA brass gets abnormally dirty, today it was bad enough that brass was sticking in the chamber. My best guess is this is something to do with the reamer neck being too large for the brass?
22 BRA
Lapua brass
3rd firing
Only wiped down between firings which is why the necks are black.
30.7gr of Varget
90 SMK
Suppressed, Nomad-L (high back pressure, lots of blow back.)
6 Dasher, 6.5 Creedmoor, 6.5 PRC all don't have this issue, only the necks get carbon on them when shooting but never the body.
Last outing I was testing Staball Match and n140, I cleaned the barrel afterwards. The brass always gets dirty compared to other calibers with the 22 BRA, I was expecting it to lessen with firings figuring the shoulder needed to continue to form and seal up the chamber better but after today I'm doubting that logic.
Here's what the fired brass looks like, many are as bad as the bottom piece.
View attachment 8310034
Carbon can build cumulatively, so if you aren’t getting it all off the outside after each firing, it could be affecting the seal. Consider tumbling your brass.Only wiped down between firings
I’m sure there’s a root issue, such as chamber clearances or whatnot, that make it a problem for this cartridge of yours and not others. Hopefully someone can steer you in the right direction for thatI haven't had an issue with other cartridges like this but you might be right. I might need to tumble these through the wet tumbler. I don't like the wet tumbler because it peens the necks in and does more damage than good (so far with all other cartridges. )
To clean the chamber I use Ramrods (big qtip like things.). I use hoppes #9 or Sweets 762 soaked on those and swab the chamber and necks then use a follow up ramrod with IPA to clean out any remaining solvents.
The 22 BRA has been noticably dirtier than other rounds which only gets carbon on the necks and have never had sticking issues. Here's a quickie shoot of 22 BRA brass shot after the second firing (correction, not the 3rd), 6 Dasher fired 7x, 6.5 Creedmoor fired 4x. The Dasher and CM have been wiped down and annealed, 22 BRA has not been.
View attachment 8310067
Thanks, I'm going to look into a vibratory or ultrasonic cleaner. I think I am having pressure issues caused by cleaning issues due to the extra dirty neck/shoulder of my 22 BRA (which might be due to a too lose of a chamber?)I’m sure there’s a root issue, such as chamber clearances or whatnot, that make it a problem for this cartridge of yours and not others. Hopefully someone can steer you in the right direction for that
My main thoughts were on how to manage the current situation, since you’re pretty much stuck with the chamber you have (although you could change the sizing die or brass if it turned out either of those were the problem).
PS: I have a wet tumbler I never use anymore; switched to fine ground walnut in a Harbor Freight vibratory, and I run the brass for 25 mins in there. Seems to get the exterior to a repeatable clean, although not shiny and pristine like the wet tumbler would. With you on the necks, I don’t want to trim every time.
Good info, yeah that dirty neck area in the chamber is definitely indicative of a problem; it's not the root cause (I think you're right that you have too much clearance, my chamber is a 0.255" neck), but once those deposits build up they'll inhibit sealing even more. Good finds with the borescope, and the pressure issues. Godspeed!Thanks, I'm going to look into a vibratory or ultrasonic cleaner. I think I am having pressure issues caused by cleaning issues due to the extra dirty neck/shoulder of my 22 BRA (which might be due to a too lose of a chamber?)
I inspected everything closer today to diagnose the issue. Pulled 6 bullets at random, weighed the charge and visually confirmed the powder was Varget, no issues here. Wiped down the brass I shot yesterday and measured a few key points. Noticed right away that about half the shot rounds had major pressure issues; the base of the brass where not in the chamber had flowed out a little bit causing a little lip like a rimmed cartridge. This is even visible on the picture I posted yesterday and didn't notice until today. Not good; at the range I was discounting that it might have been pressure because the weather was cold and I'd shot 1.0grn more powder before which was where I was seeing heavy bolt lift. I've also had a dirty chamber cause stuck brass before so I jumped the conclusion that it was the carbon causing the stuck brass. I was wrong and thankfully leaned a lesson that only cost me some confusion and ~15 pcs of brass.
Then I pulled out the bore scope and started to find issues right away. Even with my normal cleaning that should clean out the neck and shoulder there was hard baked on carbon building up in the neck and shoulder. I'm guessing because the 22 BRA is so dirty that it's depositing carbon in the necks which is causing extra pressure. I scoped my 6 Dasher barrel with 1k rounds on it and the neck is clean and doesn't have any build up.
I'm not sure why the 22 BRA gets so dirty. I think it has too much neck clearance and that might be part of it. I measured fired brass with the dirty neck at 0.257" so figure if it was clean it might be 0.258" or 0.259". Loaded rounds measure 0.2505" in the neck.
Next 22 BRA barrel I have cut will be with a .255 neck reamer that I have a 0.160" freebore. This barrel is a PVA 0.150" freebore 22 BRA, Osprey.
Dirty Chamber Neck:
View attachment 8310470
Shoulder looks like it had baked on carbon as well:
View attachment 8310476
I don't think it was a carbon ring issue; looks like the carbon build up was minimal between the brass and end of the neck:
View attachment 8310477
I cleaned out the neck and chamber and I bet next time out it shoots without issues. Lesson is i'm going to have to clean the chamber more than normal with this barrel. Baked on carbon removed:
View attachment 8310479
I did not jam the bullets. Maybe next time I fireform some brass i'll try that out.Did you seat bullets long into the rifling on first shot to create a good pressure spike. My 223ai did what yours is doing on my first batch.The second i seated long and the brass was much cleaner and formed better on first firing
Yes, 28.0gr of Varget.
Next time I form brass I'll experiment with different methods. Jamming and also trying 28.5 and 29.0gr.I would say your cases aren't formed and therefore the chamber isn't sealing off...
28.0gr and not jammed is a LIGHT load for 22BRA..
My 22BR Varget OCW was 28.2 - 30.0gr Varget with 90smk...
Unlike a dasher where you are moving the shoulder forward and changing angle, shouldn’t the shoulder of the BR case be touching the shoulder of the BRA chamber at some point? I thought this is the idea behind the Ackley Improved chamberings?Next time I form brass I'll experiment with different methods. Jamming and also trying 28.5 and 29.0gr.
Here's a before and after from 28.0gr.
View attachment 8310855
That's my understanding also but maybe I need to back off my 22 BRA sizing die a bit to get a better crush fit of the neck shoulder junction. That crush fit would help to seal off the chamber better. I recently fireformed Dasher brass also using 28.0gr of Varget and it formed up great and didn't have carbon leaking around the body of the die. And I think the reason why is because I'm crush fitting a .257 ID false shoulder into the neck and getting a good seal.Unlike a dasher where you are moving the shoulder forward and changing angle, shouldn’t the shoulder of the BR case be touching the shoulder of the BRA chamber at some point? I thought this is the idea behind the Ackley Improved chamberings?
Most people chamber a bra to a br go gauge -0.004 to achieve a light crush on br brass to help with forming yes. If I were doing a 22bra, I'd just neck down far enough to where there's slight bolt closure resistance headspacing on the false shoulder in the neck area.Unlike a dasher where you are moving the shoulder forward and changing angle, shouldn’t the shoulder of the BR case be touching the shoulder of the BRA chamber at some point? I thought this is the idea behind the Ackley Improved chamberings?
Have you tried putting more Varget in the case? Seems you're a bit underloaded to me, unless that's a short barrel.tried 28.0 gr varget and 2.35 coal for my first batch of 22 br w/ 88 eldm
also gave 30 gr varget a quick try with 62 eldvt, i forget what seating depth.
I have a 7 twist mullerworks 219 bore from southern precision. dunno the FB
groups worthless because i forgot to tighten my scope rail, so my elevation is all over the place.
chrono results
19 shots 88 eldm, avg velocity 2855, es 44, sd 10.9
3 shots 62 eldvt, avg velocity 3197, extreme spread 20
anyone have h4350 loads for 88 eldm? varget seems good but it doesnt fill the case.
There are lots of reports of people settling in at 28.5-29.5; my load with 88's was 31.3gr of RL-16 but you have to back down a bit with Varget, I saw the first hints of pressure at 28.5gr in my setup.26" barrel
what do u think is a reasonable max charge?
Uh.. you need to try a little harder than 28.0 one seating depth and saying it doesn't shoot.
I've been through 3 22BR barrels now and 6 or 7 different bullets and various powders.. 22BR hammers with varget. H4350 isn't ideal for 22br and doesn't come close to Varget, H4895, 4166, N550
Here's 9 shots @ 100yd out of your same barrel.. Mullerworks 7 twist 219 28"
28.5gr Varget 88ELD 0.01 off
yeah 28.5 to 29.5 seems good and the simulation thinks that will top out at 61k psi with 90% case fill. According to the sim, H4350 would get to 95% case fill at a similar pressure level.There are lots of reports of people settling in at 28.5-29.5; my load with 88's was 31.3gr of RL-16 but you have to back down a bit with Varget, I saw the first hints of pressure at 28.5gr in my setup.
I'd start with a charge ladder to find where you see pressure; that will tell you when to turn back and find a good charge weight below that.
I can't velocity out of Varget, so my load is 31.4 RL-16 out of a 30 inch 1:7 McGowen barrel. COAL is 2.270. Velocity is 3026.tried 28.0 gr varget and 2.35 coal for my first batch of 22 br w/ 88 eldm
also gave 30 gr varget a quick try with 62 eldvt, i forget what seating depth.
I have a 7 twist mullerworks 219 bore from southern precision. dunno the FB
groups worthless because i forgot to tighten my scope rail, so my elevation is all over the place.
chrono results
19 shots 88 eldm, avg velocity 2855, es 44, sd 10.9
3 shots 62 eldvt, avg velocity 3197, extreme spread 20
anyone have h4350 loads for 88 eldm? varget seems good but it doesnt fill the case.
I can't velocity out of Varget, so my load is 31.4 RL-16 out of a 30 inch 1:7 McGowen barrel. COAL is 2.270. Velocity is 3026.
I get the best groups from Varget but for a 1000 I need velocity with OK groups and RL-16 does it.
I too am going to try H4350 down the road but my GRT simulations show it in between Varget and RL-16
David
That makes sense to me. It's still a bit over bore I think. Not as much as 22 GT or 22 Creedmoor. That said, PADOM has real world experience with several barrels. Maybe another powder in the H4350 area would do better? I always try for a good case fill, but accuracy down range doesn't always play by the "case fill rules"!yeah 28.5 to 29.5 seems good and the simulation thinks that will top out at 61k psi with 90% case fill. According to the sim, H4350 would get to 95% case fill at a similar pressure level.
...... my load is 31.4 RL-16 out of a 30 inch 1:7 McGowen barrel. COAL is 2.270. Velocity is 3026.
David
How is the temp stability of N550? RL16 is very temp stable.