22 Cal Build - What Flavour?
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I shot the first 10 at 100 Yards without the suppressor to make sure they made it past the end of the barrel. Put the suppressor on and hammered a 6" plate at 420 yards to see how how they shot at distance. They were 1/2 moa and would probably be a heck of a coyote load. Problem is it is a 23 lb match rifle. I may cut it down to 10 or 20" from the chamber end and try it for a calling rifle. The 22 BR has been accurate with any bullet i put in it.
This project is moving forward (stock ordered / action ordered / trigger purchased etc).
I fancy a fluted barrel this time which is making things a little trickier (particularly so as I want to have it cerakoted black and then fluted as I like the look).
For 223 bolt guns what length barrel is everyone running? I'm think of 22" / 24" / 26" (dont think I want to go longer or shorter than that).
It'll be in a KRG Bravo with enclosed forend, the regular KRG Bravo is pretty short but the forend makes it a little longer so I could get away with a longer barrel without getting into a Pinocchio type look.
22" - Would be pretty compact and the least front heavy, downside would be less speed / FPS
24" - Probably the best compromise of speed / FPS and maneuverability.
26" - Best speed / FPS but harder to manoeuvre and more front heavy.
Still not sure on contour but it will be a medium or (more likely) a heavier contour (like an M24 or MTU) and fluted.
I fancy a fluted barrel this time which is making things a little trickier (particularly so as I want to have it cerakoted black and then fluted as I like the look).
For 223 bolt guns what length barrel is everyone running? I'm think of 22" / 24" / 26" (dont think I want to go longer or shorter than that).
It'll be in a KRG Bravo with enclosed forend, the regular KRG Bravo is pretty short but the forend makes it a little longer so I could get away with a longer barrel without getting into a Pinocchio type look.
22" - Would be pretty compact and the least front heavy, downside would be less speed / FPS
24" - Probably the best compromise of speed / FPS and maneuverability.
26" - Best speed / FPS but harder to manoeuvre and more front heavy.
Still not sure on contour but it will be a medium or (more likely) a heavier contour (like an M24 or MTU) and fluted.
Keep in mind the KRG Bravo is a relatively light chassis, and doesn't require a long barrel to make it front heavy.
I had to add weighted steel LOP spacers to my wife's rifle to make it not too front heavy. She has a 24" heavy palma barrel with her KRG Bravo.
Hmmm, good point.
I guess I could do a lighter profile or go with the shorter option (22"), or both.
I notice KRG offer weights for the Bravo buttstock and grip now (guessing thats what you are referring to / picked up) so that could help but I'm trying to keep it on the lighter side as some of the shooting I plan to do will be unsupported (another reason I'm trying to avoid a front heavy feel).
If it was me, I would consider building a .22BR/BRA in a heavy palma or m24 contour at 22" length, and suppress it.
Should be plenty of barrel length to get decent velocities, but in a package that's short(ish) and maneuverable.
So many choices.
I just looked up Heavy Palma and it looks like it would weigh around the same (or maybe even less) an M24 all other things being equal.
Maybe I should look at Medium Palma or similar. Thanks for the info.
With 223 being at the lower end of the cartridge spectrum I doubt if I will notice the difference on target anyways (I'm guessing the harmonics shouldn't be so extreme / less need for a heavy contour).
Justin Trudeau feels differently. Another reason (of many) to dislike that guy.
If suppressors were an option I'd be into them like a fat kid on cake.
Shit I forgot you were in Canada.
Just do the Jerry Teo special then - the "Jerry rigged" Rem783
Also, don't forget to hand ream your .223 throat per Maple57/PracticalTactical's specs
A 22" heavy palma would probably balance damn near perfectly.
Or you could look at something like Hawkhills "marksman" profile, which is between a medium and heavy palma.
I've got 22, 24, and 26" 223 rifles. Mine have different purposes, and different stocks. If I could only have one, it would probably be a 22" with a light varmint profile- which is still pretty heavy, especially if you plan to suppress it.
The difference in velocity between 22 and 24 isn't a lot but gets more noticeable when you get past 800.
Edit to add: The suggestions for medium Palma and Marksman barrels are along the lines of what I was thinking with the Light Varmint profile.
The difference in velocity between 22 and 24 isn't a lot but gets more noticeable when you get past 800.
Edit to add: The suggestions for medium Palma and Marksman barrels are along the lines of what I was thinking with the Light Varmint profile.
Shit I forgot you were in Canada.
Just do the Jerry Teo special then - the "Jerry rigged" Rem783
Also, don't forget to hand ream your .223 throat per Maple57/PracticalTactical's specs
That sounds kinda suspect for sure
One thing I have learned over the years, some things are better left alone.
Good to know, I have a couple of other rifles better suited to 800+ (6BR / 6.5CM) and while I may take the 223 out to that distance (maybe in F class) I dont see it happening too often.
Most of my shooting with this rifle will be 450 yards max.
I've heard many people say this, how does it work exactly?
Do you do load development while you fireform the brass and then do it again after FFing.
Or do you just choose a generic load that works for other people for FFing, hope it shoots good enough and then do full load development afterwards?
I choice a generic load that was recommend to me, and loaded 50 at that, and then backed off 1/2 grain and loaded 50 at that just to get a lay of the land. Both loads fired the 105’s around 2840 and 2860 and both loads printed 3/8 moa groups easily with a few 1/4 moa groups. I would of been happy shooting that load the entire time. I took that same load and tried again in my new fire formed brass with very similar results. I used the first 100 rounds to fireform, let the barrel break in and settle down, get a feel for the gun, and then started load development after they were done.
I looked up a common FF load with H4885, believe it was on accurateshooter, and seating 105 hybrids ~10 thou off the lands. Shoots great. Didn't bother with doing any load development. The nice thing about these cartridges is that they seem to shoot most anything pretty well.
I’ve had/have 3 -223ai rifles , my latest is a 28” Bartlein 6.5T 1.25”to 1” .220 freebore on a Terminus Zeus. I shoot 95 SMKs at 2785 and 80s at 3100, it hangs right there with my dasher to 900 , weighs 20# and barely moves which I find myself enjoying more and more.
I also have a medium Palma 7.7t Bart .120 freebore on bighorn … 53vmax at 3650ish
80s at 3080.
I have burned out a couple 22 Dashers also
Which are amazing
If I were you I’d go 223AI because the other choices are too close to your 6br. It will also be the most economical and least recoil.
I would go 22” if you are thinking about suppressing it.
I also have a medium Palma 7.7t Bart .120 freebore on bighorn … 53vmax at 3650ish
80s at 3080.
I have burned out a couple 22 Dashers also
Which are amazing
If I were you I’d go 223AI because the other choices are too close to your 6br. It will also be the most economical and least recoil.
I would go 22” if you are thinking about suppressing it.
Hmmmm I hate load development, perhaps I need to look into 6br/bra again
It doesn't seem to be picky with what I put in it. As long as you use good quality components and decent reloading techniques, it almost doesn't matter what you put in a 6BRA...
As someone who has just got into the BR family of cartridges this ^^^^ is accurate.
My 6BR with good quality components is ridiculously easy. Load development was running 4 different powder charges over the chronograph, picking the speed I wanted and seating at 75 thousands off the lands (I read an article which I think was from SAC that made me think that was a good starting point).
Last trip out I shot 3 sub 0.2MOA groups (at 100M & 300M) - really liking 6BR, it is the easy button.
Interesting, I have a bunch of once fired LC brass (I thought about picking up some Lapua but maybe I'll give this a whirl first), 4 jugs of 8208 and ~3000 75gr BTHPs (just received another 1800 yesterday). The plan is to use a Wylde chamber too. Sounds like I should be in a good place........
I agree with your sentiment that once you start going down the faster 22 based caliber route it gets to a point where its pretty close to what I would be doing with my 6BR.
I considered building a 22BR (or 22BRA as I have an itch for an Ackley), that caliber intrigues me (possibly because the 6BR has been awesome for me and this would be like a smaller version of the same) but with the extra component cost over 223 (more expensive bullet if you are using what is optimum - ie heavier, and more powder) it was getting pretty close to 6BR, at which point I had to decide if it was worth it to build another rifle that was so close to what I had or if I simply put the money into extra components / barrels for my 6BR.
In the end building another rifle was just too appealing so 223 made the most sense.
Ha, I totally see the appeal of 22CM and even considered building one (great caliber by all accounts) but I went 6BR instead.
My latest build will be a switch barrel setup (Terminus Zeus QC) so if I can find a place with Coyotes there may be one in my future......
As ammo and components get more expensive, the expense of barrels for a caliber that burns them up becomes a smaller proportion of your shooting expenditure.
Barrels are like tires, burn em off. Build a hot rod.
Barrels are like tires, burn em off. Build a hot rod.
I'm a 223 addict. You can have just as much fun hitting little steel circles at 500 yards as you can hitting silhouettes at 1000 with the big guns.
For a long time I was shooting the 77 Noslers because they were 13c each and liked the accuracy, but prices have skyrocketed in recent years. The 75 Hornday works well in 1:9 twists if you have an older AR or bolt rifle that can that way.
I have an old 1050 that I run the brass through to size, decap, and swage. Next I trim them, clean up the mouths, and finish loading in a 550. I've tried several powders behind the 77s. 8208 works great but I've had good success with TAC despite it being a bit temperature sensitive. A friend swears by CFE223 and has the groups to prove it.
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I agree! Half the fun about shooting the trainer 22 is the lack of care sometimes. Im running winchester brass. Was going get Lapua but when I went to the range there was 200 pieces of 223 winchester bras there. Then I realized shoot this, if I trash it in 3-4 firings there will be more. Almost everything shoots well in it!! Pick something and get practicing
The 75 hornady for 9 twist that you talk about is the ELD-M? Or do you mean the BTHP?
In our silhouette days, we shot Winchester brass in everything. It was the least expensive and we hit targets, more often than not 40x40’s. Shot it as .223, 7TCU, 300 Whisper, even made some .221 Fireball. The only exception was shooting Remington brass for 7BR. The cost of the dies to make 7BR brass ran well over 300 dollars. Then we heard we were supposed to be shooting expensive brass if we wanted good results. Actually purchased 100 Lapua .223 cases. Performance was not enhanced so we went back to Win cases.
Lots of good info here. I would suggest like many others 223 Wylde with a 7 twist at 24” and the muzzle threaded 5/8-24. 50 grain vmax all the way up to 88 eld will shoot well.
That is pretty much the plan right now. I have eliminated the 26" barrel option from the running and am leaning towards the 24" (only other I would consider would be 22"). It will have a Wylde chamber with 1:7 twist.
Why thread the muzzle 5/8 x 24? I was leaning towards 1/2 x 28 for 2 reasons (it is caliber specific for 223 whereas I cannot find a caliber specific 5/8 x 24 for 223 and I got it for a crazy good price in the recent Black Friday sale).
I don't get get what you mean by not being able to find a caliber specific 5/8x23 for 223. The 5/8x24 is a thread pitch. I would do 5/8x24 so you can use your same muzzle devices from other rifles on this one too. Simplicity!
You misunderstand.
All the 5/8 x 24 threaded muzzle brakes I found were sized where the bullet passes through for larger calibers (ie 6.5CM / 308)
1/2 x 28 was sized for a 223.
Picture is worth a 1000 words and all
No brake for a 223. Noise and percussion for no reason - there is essentially no recoil to manage.
I didn't misunderstood. You didn't say brake lol.
But I get what you mean now. And I do remember seeing a brake for 5/8 threads with 22 cal bore. But who cares if a 5/8 brake has a 30 cal hole. Last I checked 22 cal fits inside 30 cal hole. I can guarantee you that you will not feel or notice the difference when shooting. I would just go 5/8 so that I can share suppressor/muzzle devices across all my rifles.
Glad to see you went with a 223
I don’t see the point in going for a hot rod for max 450 yards.
My 223 AR has become one of my favorite guns after not shooting semis for a couple years and could see a 223 bolt gun having a place in my safe.
It’s nice to not be super meticulous and still have good results. I use a powder thrower with 8208 in LC brass and get 3/4 moa without trying super hard. To me the appeal of the 223 was barrel life, cheaper components, free brass all over the range, and ease of loading.
I don’t see the point in going for a hot rod for max 450 yards.
My 223 AR has become one of my favorite guns after not shooting semis for a couple years and could see a 223 bolt gun having a place in my safe.
It’s nice to not be super meticulous and still have good results. I use a powder thrower with 8208 in LC brass and get 3/4 moa without trying super hard. To me the appeal of the 223 was barrel life, cheaper components, free brass all over the range, and ease of loading.
I’m with him. I wouldn’t do a break, slightly heavier contour, and set up will have the same effect on such a low recoiling round. Then no added percussion. Some believe the most a barrel can offer is when it isn’t threaded for a brake. In certain situations, brakes are more sought after for obvious reasons but when you can get away without a threaded muzzle it’s better to do so for the most accuracy you can get out of a barrel
After fireforming, L.E. Wilson 6BRA dies with a .249 bushing and .224 ELD/A-Tip seating stem. I’m also turning necks in this specific chamber, though unturned cases do seem to fit OK.
Before fireforming, I just neck them down with a straight Redding 22BR die.
Not really much to it.
I would not thread the muzzle 1/2-28. Does not leave enough material at the muzzle for best accuracy. Why have a 3/4” diameter or more and then remove a bunch of material at the muzzle where the bullet exits? 5/8-24 is king imo or don’t thread it at all.
I'm thinking of having my .223 Rem Bolt Gun rebarrelled as it's nearing the end of it's life and has shot a lot of Swiss Surplus GP90 in it's time.
I'm thinking go 24" or maybe 26" and 1:8 or 1:7.5" twist for those weights.
223 AI has interesting ballistics but I understand can be a bugger to feed from a magazine if that is important to you.
Scrummy
I'm thinking go 24" or maybe 26" and 1:8 or 1:7.5" twist for those weights.
223 AI has interesting ballistics but I understand can be a bugger to feed from a magazine if that is important to you.
Scrummy
Shit I forgot you were in Canada.
Just do the Jerry Teo special then - the "Jerry rigged" Rem783
Also, don't forget to hand ream your .223 throat per Maple57/PracticalTactical's specs
Hey thanks for the sarcasm KT...
I understand that most people have a limited background in machining and don't understand the context behind your misinterpretation of my hand reaming suggestion.
I'm sure you "think" I'm suggesting that hand reaming a barrel they way any common dummy might do it.
By now you should know that I'm not so simple and there is more thought behind such a comment than you obviously assume, and certainly less insight on your behalf than I can comprehend.
You just don't understand how hand reaming can be done even more precisely than some shit ass $5,000 engine lathe is capable because you don't have a background in precision machining. You are narrow minded and egotistical and have a need to feel superior despite your inadequacies.
Yes I have methods to hand ream precisely, but I wont bother to share with you since you have a confrontational and demeaning attitude. You KT are simply not worthy.
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