22 creedmoor

[orkan]

@orkan can you expand on how/what I'd need to utilize my 6mm creed seater die (redding type s comp) to seat 22 creed? On the road so not able research quickly. Is it as simple as getting a .224 seating stem?

Yes, but its not optimal. The bullet support isn't as good, so there's more opportunity for shorter bullets to get off axis before going in the neck. Though it depends on the die design heavily. Some companies use the same dimensions for the entire family of cases.

 

[ifgator]

I just necked down 300 cases of Alpha OCD 6mm Creedmoor brass. I wasn't able to find 22cm but really no biggie. I plan on shooting the ELD 88 grain bullet. Anyone have a ballpark starting load for H4350?? I was thinking 39 grains but wanted to see if anyone had on opinion???

 

[max1840]

I just necked down 300 cases of Alpha OCD 6mm Creedmoor brass. I wasn't able to find 22cm but really no biggie. I plan on shooting the ELD 88 grain bullet. Anyone have a ballpark starting load for H4350?? I was thinking 39 grains but wanted to see if anyone had on opinion???

Blue Collar Reloading has Alpha SRP in stock now

 

[orkan]

I just necked down 300 cases of Alpha OCD 6mm Creedmoor brass. I wasn't able to find 22cm but really no biggie. I plan on shooting the ELD 88 grain bullet. Anyone have a ballpark starting load for H4350?? I was thinking 39 grains but wanted to see if anyone had on opinion???

I thought a "start load" was supposed to be easily safe... not riding right on the edge of a full load?

Try 35gr as an entry point there bub. The bearing surface is long, and hornady bullets run oversize. Neither of these facts is forgiving of a tight bore... and you'd rather be under charge than right on the edge if you've got one and don't know it.


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[ifgator]

Blue Collar Reloading has Alpha SRP in stock now

Thanks I wish it was there when I needed it but blue collar had 6CM so I ran with it. I’m just needing a starting point for H4350

 

[ifgator]

I thought a "start load" was supposed to be easily safe... not riding right on the edge of a full load?

Try 35gr as an entry point there bub. The bearing surface is long, and hornady bullets run oversize. Neither of these facts is forgiving of a tight bore... and you'd rather be under charge than right on the edge if you've got one and don't know it.


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That’s why I was asking first and did you really call me bub?? Never had a 22CM. Regardless thanks

 

[ifgator]

So I was reading some of the beginning of this thread where people were experimenting with RL26, Retumbo, I believe H1000. I’m curious what people are using for the heavier bullets. It seems like H4350 was used for Berger 80.5 bullets. I’m starting off with ELD 88 grain bullets and wondering what would be optimal. I’m a bit concerned over the twist of my barrel being 1-7 twist 26 Bartlein and wanting to avoid velocity that gets rpm too high. I’m going to use a Omega 300 suppressor and don’t want the jacket coming apart. If anyone has some advice or recommendations then please reply.
Thanks Shaun.

 

[4O6shootist]

So I was reading some of the beginning of this thread where people were experimenting with RL26, Retumbo, I believe H1000. I’m curious what people are using for the heavier bullets. It seems like H4350 was used for Berger 80.5 bullets. I’m starting off with ELD 88 grain bullets and wondering what would be optimal. I’m a bit concerned over the twist of my barrel being 1-7 twist 26 Bartlein and wanting to avoid velocity that gets rpm too high. I’m going to use a Omega 300 suppressor and don’t want the jacket coming apart. If anyone has some advice or recommendations then please reply.
Thanks Shaun.

You're going to want around 180-200k freebore to keep the 88s up in the neck. rl26 will provide the most speed, H1000 will give decent velocity and provide the coolest flame temp, promoting the best barrel life.

 

[BullzeyeNJ]

22 Creedmoor alpha brass small primer on sale at their site.

 

[Sm1990]

I am building a 22” gun with 8 twist plan on shooting 75 eld, 80 eld& 80.5 Berger’s. What freebore should I go with?

 

[Boatninja]

Has anyone seen any more 22 creed brass?

 

[SWgeezer]

Peterson shows it in stock

 

[Huckleberry75]

I am building a 22” gun with 8 twist plan on shooting 75 eld, 80 eld& 80.5 Berger’s. What freebore should I go with?

IIRC, my freebore is .080 and it is the GAP spec'd reamer. I run the 80.5's and the boat tail jcn is just above the neck-shoulder jcn.

 

[captainmorgan460]

Figured I'd share my experience so far with 22 CM. 24", 1:7 twist PVA barrel. AIAT w/Razor G2. Starting with Hornady 6mm CM brass, annealed, running through a 6mm neck die (0.275" to 0.262") without an expander, then the Hornady FL sizer die, neck is 0.252" OD. Not sure if the step in between in necessary, ran some through the 22CM FL die and it looks fine anyway. Just to be safe I'm planning on doing in 2 steps. RCBS Matchmaster die was trash for 95s and 88s. Used the Forster 6mm CM seater die until I got the Whidden 22 CM seater die. Both of those worked great.

95 SMK, H1000, 0.060" jump (50 deg F)
36.5: 2588
37.0: 2614
37.5: 2660
38.0: 2677
38.5: 2704
39.0: 2733
39.5: 2775
40.0: 2784
Biggest ugliest groups I've ever handloaded for anything and much slower than I expected. ~MOA up to 38.0 then up to 3-4 MOA. No sign of getting better. No idea what was happening but abandoned that combo.

Same process on the brass. Hornady 88 ELD-M w/ RL26 (28 deg F)
40.5: 2697
41.0: 2993
41.2: 3018
41.4: 3036
41.6: 3073
41.8: 3076
42.0: 3109
42.2: 3118
42.4: 3141
42.6: 3177
42.8: 3184
43.0: 3204

Went back to 41.7 to do some seating depth testing. Accuracy was there. Ran some fireformed brass through a whidden bushing die and accuracy improved more.

 

[blksno]

Well I'm just a pinch over broken in and I settled on a load...just in time to pull the barrel, drop the stock, yank the glass and rebuild it for shooting match season.

Disregard the CBTO on the top row, it should be 2.093"
50 you on the top, confirmed on the bottom a few days later at 100.

 

[Mncoyotehnter]

cbass what do you think of that little vudu scope?

 

[blksno]

cbass what do you think of that little vudu scope?

Well, I've got a TT, a MK5, a March HighMaster, a Razor 2, a Razor 3 and to be honest....it's garbage by comparison.
However. That's not really a fair comparison.
I got it for a small, compact, light weight hunting optic. It replaced my Mk6 3-18 and in that regard...I think it's a fair replacement.
I don't think it's better than a Mk5 5-25...but it's smaller. I don't thinknits better than a Mk5 3-18 but for me...it's got a more useful zoom range.

The H59 makes it worth it for me.

 

[Mncoyotehnter]

good to know, i have heard peope say basically the same you said

 

[doc88]

Looking at building one of these but have a question about primers. If going with small rifle primer brass are most using standard SRP's or Magnum SRP's?
Thanks
Doc

 

[4O6shootist]

Looking at building one of these but have a question about primers. If going with small rifle primer brass are most using standard SRP's or Magnum SRP's?
Thanks
Doc

Alpha brass with cci450s. Large flash hole helps with consistent ignition in colder seasons.

 

[Huckleberry75]

80.5's in stock at Bullet Central. Com

Berger Bullets - 22 cal, 80.5gr, FULLBORE Target 22427 / 22727 - Bullet Central

Berger 80.5 Grain Fullbore Target Bullets are often used by competitve shooters who seek the highest accuracy possible. FullBore Bullets are often used beyond mid-range distances out to 600 yards or more. The 80.5 Grain FullBore Bullet was specifically designed for accross-the-course competitive...

www.bulletcentral.com

 

[Taylorbok]

@doc88 I'm running Lapua 6cm SRP brass necked down with federal 205M and have never had issues with ignition, even in -30*c.
However once I toast this brass I am going to LRP sole reason is so I don't have to switch my Dillon 750 Priming system over.

also to everyone who was asking about dies. I had Hornady and recently went to a Whidden wow that thing is smooth comparatively.

 

[BullzeyeNJ]

80.5's in stock at Bullet Central. Com

Berger Bullets - 22 cal, 80.5gr, FULLBORE Target 22427 / 22727 - Bullet Central

Berger 80.5 Grain Fullbore Target Bullets are often used by competitve shooters who seek the highest accuracy possible. FullBore Bullets are often used beyond mid-range distances out to 600 yards or more. The 80.5 Grain FullBore Bullet was specifically designed for accross-the-course competitive...

www.bulletcentral.com

Thank you !

 

[doc88]

Thank you !

Just picked 500 up at OTM as well. Thanks.

 

[fifdynutz]

Hi guys, just read through this whole thread and im in the process of getting an 18" bartlein 5r 7.5tw barrel spun up. This rifle will primarily be used for night hunting coyote.

I plan on using H4350 and either 75gr ELDM or 88gr ELDM.

Would i be better suited to trying to run the 88s hard (in the 3100fps range) out of the little barrel to keep RPM down, or do you think i'll be ok running the 75s a bit faster? I hunt exclusively suppressed and dont want to risk tearing up my can.

im expecting to end up in the 41-41.5gr range on the 88s, and potentially in the 42-43gr range on the 75s (of course i'll do a ladder and start lower)

Thanks!

 

[nrspence]

Hi guys, just read through this whole thread and im in the process of getting an 18" bartlein 5r 7.5tw barrel spun up. This rifle will primarily be used for night hunting coyote.

I plan on using H4350 and either 75gr ELDM or 88gr ELDM.

Would i be better suited to trying to run the 88s hard (in the 3100fps range) out of the little barrel to keep RPM down, or do you think i'll be ok running the 75s a bit faster? I hunt exclusively suppressed and dont want to risk tearing up my can.

im expecting to end up in the 41-41.5gr range on the 88s, and potentially in the 42-43gr range on the 75s (of course i'll do a ladder and start lower)

Thanks!

For coyotes I would go with 75 eldms over the 88s. I like the speed that the 75s give ya over the 88s. What bore is your barrel .219 or .218?

 

[fifdynutz]

• Manufacturer: Bartlein
• Barrel Diameter: 1.250"
• Barrel Contour: Remington Varmint
• Material of Construction: Stainless Steel
• # of Grooves: 5R
• Bore Diameter: 0.218"
• Groove Diameter: 0.224"
• 18" finished length
• Twist Rate: 1 in 7.5"
• Fluting: None

 

[Huckleberry75]

75 or 73 eldm, 69/77 tmk woukd be my top votes in no certain order. If Sierra would get their shit straight and make some bullets for us consumers, I would 100% say 69tmk on top of 39gn of Varget above all those mentioned. Absolutely devastating on coyotes with small exits if at all, excellent velocity to help with the difficulty of ranging at night.

 

[fifdynutz]

how fast do you guys think i can push these with the .218/7.5tw setup without a high risk of jacket separation? at 3150 im already over 300k rpm. i'll be doing my load development once my barrel arrives, but my hunting temps will vary greatly depending on time of year (im in iowa and I hunt from september to may) i typically leave the load alone and just check my zero frequently when the weather swings

 

[nrspence]

• Manufacturer: Bartlein
• Barrel Diameter: 1.250"
• Barrel Contour: Remington Varmint
• Material of Construction: Stainless Steel
• # of Grooves: 5R
• Bore Diameter: 0.218"
• Groove Diameter: 0.224"
• 18" finished length
• Twist Rate: 1 in 7.5"
• Fluting: None

You may run into jacket deformation problems pushing bullets hard out of a .218 bore and possibly slower speeds then a .219.

 

[4O6shootist]

I'm running 77tmk at 3500 with the Viht N555 from a 22" 8tw rock creek. Ive ran 75 eldm and 77tmk over 3600fps with rl26 and no failures.

 

[Clownbuster]

Figured I'd share my experience so far with 22 CM. 24", 1:7 twist PVA barrel. AIAT w/Razor G2. Starting with Hornady 6mm CM brass, annealed, running through a 6mm neck die (0.275" to 0.262") without an expander, then the Hornady FL sizer die, neck is 0.252" OD. Not sure if the step in between in necessary, ran some through the 22CM FL die and it looks fine anyway. Just to be safe I'm planning on doing in 2 steps. RCBS Matchmaster die was trash for 95s and 88s. Used the Forster 6mm CM seater die until I got the Whidden 22 CM seater die. Both of those worked great.

95 SMK, H1000, 0.060" jump (50 deg F)
36.5: 2588
37.0: 2614
37.5: 2660
38.0: 2677
38.5: 2704
39.0: 2733
39.5: 2775
40.0: 2784
Biggest ugliest groups I've ever handloaded for anything and much slower than I expected. ~MOA up to 38.0 then up to 3-4 MOA. No sign of getting better. No idea what was happening but abandoned that combo.

Same process on the brass. Hornady 88 ELD-M w/ RL26 (28 deg F)
40.5: 2697
41.0: 2993
41.2: 3018
41.4: 3036
41.6: 3073
41.8: 3076
42.0: 3109
42.2: 3118
42.4: 3141
42.6: 3177
42.8: 3184
43.0: 3204

Went back to 41.7 to do some seating depth testing. Accuracy was there. Ran some fireformed brass through a whidden bushing die and accuracy improved more.

H1000 is way too slow for that combo. You're not getting them spinning fast enough. The 95 SMKs like 2900 - 3100 fps. Below that doesn't stabilize worth a shit, and over that can cause jacket failures.
I push the 95 SMK @ 3050 over 42.5g of H4831sc out of a 16.5" Proof with single hole accuracy and plenty in the tank.

 

[CaptArab]

Is there any merit to the whole sandbagging for barrel life approach with 22CM?

My application would be a Kimber Montana shooting the 88 ELD-M. Keep a big pile on hand for my BR and GT.

Don't really care much about crazy velocity just can't get BR or GT cases to feed right in the kimber and want to do something 22 cal with this rifle. Shooting 243 now which is fine just boring, lol.

If I could get closer to 2000-2500 rounds out of it I could justify the plunge. Again, obviously not a match rifle, coyotes, beer cans, deer. Slow strings, open to H1000/Retumbo or just finding a low node with a long jump.

Thanks guys, searched a lot but everybody is hot-rodding or competing.

 

[4O6shootist]

Is there any merit to the whole sandbagging for barrel life approach with 22CM?

My application would be a Kimber Montana shooting the 88 ELD-M. Keep a big pile on hand for my BR and GT.

Don't really care much about crazy velocity just can't get BR or GT cases to feed right in the kimber and want to do something 22 cal with this rifle. Shooting 243 now which is fine just boring, lol.

If I could get closer to 2000-2500 rounds out of it I could justify the plunge. Again, obviously not a match rifle, coyotes, beer cans, deer. Slow strings, open to H1000/Retumbo or just finding a low node with a long jump.

Thanks guys, searched a lot but everybody is hot-rodding or competing.

46+ gr of H1000 would be my suggestion. See if it gives you a speed you're happy with. H1000 was able to push 77s in my 22" barrel up to 3280fps. It will only get more efficient as bullet weight goes up.

 

[CaptArab]

46+ gr of H1000 would be my suggestion. See if it gives you a speed you're happy with. H1000 was able to push 77s in my 22" barrel up to 3280fps. It will only get more efficient as bullet weight goes up.

That's way over what hodgdon recommends for an 85, and I asked about an 88 grain bullet . . .
But thanks for the data point.

 

[max1840]

Is there any merit to the whole sandbagging for barrel life approach with 22CM?

My application would be a Kimber Montana shooting the 88 ELD-M. Keep a big pile on hand for my BR and GT.

Don't really care much about crazy velocity just can't get BR or GT cases to feed right in the kimber and want to do something 22 cal with this rifle. Shooting 243 now which is fine just boring, lol.

If I could get closer to 2000-2500 rounds out of it I could justify the plunge. Again, obviously not a match rifle, coyotes, beer cans, deer. Slow strings, open to H1000/Retumbo or just finding a low node with a long jump.

Thanks guys, searched a lot but everybody is hot-rodding or competing.

Just finished a build and break-in. I'm using 43 grains of N565 and 90 grain SMK's getting 3150 fps. I've worked up to 44.5 grains without pressure. Not sure what it will do for barrel life but I'm sure I'll find out. I have a second barrel on order.

 

[Kocher]

Just saw normal primers are 100$ and the millitary 556 are 120!. Fock me...

Been shooting my gas gun 22CM , picked up a shilen barrel in reme action on my b-day... when will this ever end? I am not buying any more primers powder ect.. have plenty right now but when I am out, I am out! I will go ride moto bike and race shifter carts, and rc planes. Don’t get me started on nitro/methanol prices though.

 

[4O6shootist]

Just saw normal primers are 100$ and the millitary 556 are 120!. Fock me...

Been shooting my gas gun 22CM , picked up a shilen barrel in reme action on my b-day... when will this ever end? I am not buying any more primers powder ect.. have plenty right now but when I am out, I am out! I will go ride moto bike and race shifter carts, and rc planes. Don’t get me started on nitro/methanol prices though.

Pretty sure as long as guys keep hoarding and buying everything in sight to keep available inventory non-existent, prices will remain high, or go higher.

 

[Jerry V]

Just finished up 1st trip to range with my new 22CM. Looking for some help or suggestions.
The Particulars:
Ruger RPR brand new action
Proof Carbon 22" 1-8 twist new barrel
Peterson brass 22CM SRP new brass
VitaVhouri N555 powder
Nolser 85gr RDF Loaded .004 jump basically to the lands
Federal SRP
So I loaded 10 break in rounds at 36gr to check overall function or rifle and load. Avg velocity was 2818fps. No pressure signs. All is good. These are the 10 rounds on the left in the picture.
Then began a pressure test ladder to find where the limits might be. Started at 36.5gr and moved up in .5gr increments to 40gr.
Was hoping to see somewhere around 3100fps before pressure signs. Started seeing the primers flatten and back out at 38gr at 39gr my son said I better stop but I went ahead and put the 40gr in the mag and promptly blew the primer. Other than the Primer signs no other signs of pressure. No sticky bolt, no swipe marks, no extraction issues.
If I go with the last safe load indicated then max velocity is around 2900fps. Kinda disappointing.
Any suggestions if I want to shoot 85-90 grain projectiles?
Do I need to bush the firing pin on a RPR to handle the small rifle primer?
Pics attached. Shows bolt face after range trip and the case heads 10 on left are 36gr. 8 on right start at 36.5 on lower left and the 40gr blowout on the upper right.
Appreciate any input.
Jerry V

 

[CaptArab]

I don't even shoot this cartridge but it has my attention. Extrapolating some data points . . .

N555 is right between n550 and n160.
See burn rate chart. That puts it right around hunter.

Hodgdon says a max load of hunter at 60.8k is 38.3 with the 85.5 Berger.

A max load of super, which is a couple rungs slower is 39.3.

I'd say you're at pressure and might consider a different powder.

 

[max1840]

I've done a ladder test with 85 RDF's using N565 from 44 to 45.5 grains and CCI 200 primers in new Alpha brass. Barrel is 26"

44.00 - 3222
44.30 - 3248
44.60 - 3287
44.90 - 3313
45.20 - 3330
45.50 - 3356

 

[Jerry V]

Thanks Did you have any pressure signs. Seems to be a hot load even at the starting point. Maybe I need to try CCI 400 primers as the Federal may be a little soft. At 44-45gr how was the case capacity. I still have a lot of room left in my loads with N555.
Thanks
Jerry V

 

[4O6shootist]

Thanks Did you have any pressure signs. Seems to be a hot load even at the starting point. Maybe I need to try CCI 400 primers as the Federal may be a little soft. At 44-45gr how was the case capacity. I still have a lot of room left in my loads with N555.
Thanks
Jerry V

Id stay away from cci400, and go for cci450. Ive ran N555 in my 22 creed with 77tmk, running 3500fps with 43.9gr, shoots pretty good, but on edge of pressure. Primers are flat, no ejector or bolt lift. 42.5gr run 3400fps and shoots excellent there.

 

[max1840]

Thanks Did you have any pressure signs. Seems to be a hot load even at the starting point. Maybe I need to try CCI 400 primers as the Federal may be a little soft. At 44-45gr how was the case capacity. I still have a lot of room left in my loads with N555.
Thanks
Jerry V

I did not experience any pressure signs. Case was filled to the bottom of the neck. I tapped them down before seating. My case capacity averaged out to 51.21 grs. H2O. GRT tells me the fill ratio is 99.6%. This was a 6 step ladder with 3 round steps. I have not revisited the combination yet but plan on pursuing the 44.6 and 45.2 loads. CBTO - 2.121, COL - 2.597

 

[Jerry V]

Appreciate the responses. I may have found the culprit of the problem. The fired cases expanded .009 in headspace. I will recheck headspace with go/nogo and confirm. Probably will resize with no bump and run another test. Had read many posts that primers backing out was sign of low pressure or headspace. The loads from 36 to 37.5 all look like you would expect from a fired round so I do not think it was a low pressure issue. I think the case expanded and filled the chamber and there was enough space behind the head to allow the primer to back out. IS my logic within reason?

 

[max1840]

Appreciate the responses. I may have found the culprit of the problem. The fired cases expanded .009 in headspace. I will recheck headspace with go/nogo and confirm. Probably will resize with no bump and run another test. Had read many posts that primers backing out was sign of low pressure or headspace. The loads from 36 to 37.5 all look like you would expect from a fired round so I do not think it was a low pressure issue. I think the case expanded and filled the chamber and there was enough space behind the head to allow the primer to back out. IS my logic within reason?

Can't say I've experienced anything like that, but it certainly sounds logical.

 

[orkan]

Anyone not running Alpha OCD 22 Creed cases, isn't experiencing this cartridge for what it is.

 

[spife7980]

Do I need to bush the firing pin on a RPR to handle the small rifle primer?

I believe it comes with the large diameter so you do. Measure it, for small rifle you will want the .062 diameter pin and not one thats .07x or .08x something.

 

[CaptArab]

Anyone not running Alpha OCD 22 Creed cases, isn't experiencing this cartridge for what it is.

Honest question here, not trying to entrap you-
Just because alpha can handle higher pressure, does that actually make it safe to do so?

If we're not finding typical pressure signs, where does one draw the line. And how do we know that doesn't lead to case head separation or other catastrophic failure 5 reloads later?

 

[orkan]

Honest question here, not trying to entrap you-
Just because alpha can handle higher pressure, does that actually make it safe to do so?

If we're not finding typical pressure signs, where does one draw the line. And how do we know that doesn't lead to case head separation or other catastrophic failure 5 reloads later?

You're reading a lot into my statement. Nowhere did I advocate running over-pressure loads.

It's a simple reality that there are presently only TWO brass manufacturers that will actually allow you to run most cartridges at their advertised capabilities. Alpha, and Lapua.

Just because the brass doesn't instantly crack in half, doesn't mean the brass can actually take the pressure... though I think it would be better if that would be the case since most people are using inferior brass and suffering the consequences, but they don't notice. Most people aren't trying to get very many firings out of their brass, so they don't even realize what is happening.