22 creedmoor

Well I'm just a pinch over broken in and I settled on a load...just in time to pull the barrel, drop the stock, yank the glass and rebuild it for shooting match season.

Disregard the CBTO on the top row, it should be 2.093"
50 you on the top, confirmed on the bottom a few days later at 100.
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cbass what do you think of that little vudu scope?
Well, I've got a TT, a MK5, a March HighMaster, a Razor 2, a Razor 3 and to be honest....it's garbage by comparison.
However. That's not really a fair comparison.
I got it for a small, compact, light weight hunting optic. It replaced my Mk6 3-18 and in that regard...I think it's a fair replacement.
I don't think it's better than a Mk5 5-25...but it's smaller. I don't thinknits better than a Mk5 3-18 but for me...it's got a more useful zoom range.

The H59 makes it worth it for me.
 
80.5's in stock at Bullet Central. Com


 
@doc88 I'm running Lapua 6cm SRP brass necked down with federal 205M and have never had issues with ignition, even in -30*c.
However once I toast this brass I am going to LRP sole reason is so I don't have to switch my Dillon 750 Priming system over.

also to everyone who was asking about dies. I had Hornady and recently went to a Whidden wow that thing is smooth comparatively.
 
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Hi guys, just read through this whole thread and im in the process of getting an 18" bartlein 5r 7.5tw barrel spun up. This rifle will primarily be used for night hunting coyote.

I plan on using H4350 and either 75gr ELDM or 88gr ELDM.

Would i be better suited to trying to run the 88s hard (in the 3100fps range) out of the little barrel to keep RPM down, or do you think i'll be ok running the 75s a bit faster? I hunt exclusively suppressed and dont want to risk tearing up my can.

im expecting to end up in the 41-41.5gr range on the 88s, and potentially in the 42-43gr range on the 75s (of course i'll do a ladder and start lower)

Thanks!
 
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Hi guys, just read through this whole thread and im in the process of getting an 18" bartlein 5r 7.5tw barrel spun up. This rifle will primarily be used for night hunting coyote.

I plan on using H4350 and either 75gr ELDM or 88gr ELDM.

Would i be better suited to trying to run the 88s hard (in the 3100fps range) out of the little barrel to keep RPM down, or do you think i'll be ok running the 75s a bit faster? I hunt exclusively suppressed and dont want to risk tearing up my can.

im expecting to end up in the 41-41.5gr range on the 88s, and potentially in the 42-43gr range on the 75s (of course i'll do a ladder and start lower)

Thanks!
For coyotes I would go with 75 eldms over the 88s. I like the speed that the 75s give ya over the 88s. What bore is your barrel .219 or .218?
 
  • Manufacturer: Bartlein
  • Barrel Diameter: 1.250"
  • Barrel Contour: Remington Varmint
  • Material of Construction: Stainless Steel
  • # of Grooves: 5R
  • Bore Diameter: 0.218"
  • Groove Diameter: 0.224"
  • 18" finished length
  • Twist Rate: 1 in 7.5"
  • Fluting: None
 
75 or 73 eldm, 69/77 tmk woukd be my top votes in no certain order. If Sierra would get their shit straight and make some bullets for us consumers, I would 100% say 69tmk on top of 39gn of Varget above all those mentioned. Absolutely devastating on coyotes with small exits if at all, excellent velocity to help with the difficulty of ranging at night.
 
how fast do you guys think i can push these with the .218/7.5tw setup without a high risk of jacket separation? at 3150 im already over 300k rpm. i'll be doing my load development once my barrel arrives, but my hunting temps will vary greatly depending on time of year (im in iowa and I hunt from september to may) i typically leave the load alone and just check my zero frequently when the weather swings
 
  • Manufacturer: Bartlein
  • Barrel Diameter: 1.250"
  • Barrel Contour: Remington Varmint
  • Material of Construction: Stainless Steel
  • # of Grooves: 5R
  • Bore Diameter: 0.218"
  • Groove Diameter: 0.224"
  • 18" finished length
  • Twist Rate: 1 in 7.5"
  • Fluting: None
You may run into jacket deformation problems pushing bullets hard out of a .218 bore and possibly slower speeds then a .219.
 
Figured I'd share my experience so far with 22 CM. 24", 1:7 twist PVA barrel. AIAT w/Razor G2. Starting with Hornady 6mm CM brass, annealed, running through a 6mm neck die (0.275" to 0.262") without an expander, then the Hornady FL sizer die, neck is 0.252" OD. Not sure if the step in between in necessary, ran some through the 22CM FL die and it looks fine anyway. Just to be safe I'm planning on doing in 2 steps. RCBS Matchmaster die was trash for 95s and 88s. Used the Forster 6mm CM seater die until I got the Whidden 22 CM seater die. Both of those worked great.

95 SMK, H1000, 0.060" jump (50 deg F)
36.5: 2588
37.0: 2614
37.5: 2660
38.0: 2677
38.5: 2704
39.0: 2733
39.5: 2775
40.0: 2784
Biggest ugliest groups I've ever handloaded for anything and much slower than I expected. ~MOA up to 38.0 then up to 3-4 MOA. No sign of getting better. No idea what was happening but abandoned that combo.

Same process on the brass. Hornady 88 ELD-M w/ RL26 (28 deg F)
40.5: 2697
41.0: 2993
41.2: 3018
41.4: 3036
41.6: 3073
41.8: 3076
42.0: 3109
42.2: 3118
42.4: 3141
42.6: 3177
42.8: 3184
43.0: 3204

Went back to 41.7 to do some seating depth testing. Accuracy was there. Ran some fireformed brass through a whidden bushing die and accuracy improved more.
H1000 is way too slow for that combo. You're not getting them spinning fast enough. The 95 SMKs like 2900 - 3100 fps. Below that doesn't stabilize worth a shit, and over that can cause jacket failures.
I push the 95 SMK @ 3050 over 42.5g of H4831sc out of a 16.5" Proof with single hole accuracy and plenty in the tank.
 
Is there any merit to the whole sandbagging for barrel life approach with 22CM?

My application would be a Kimber Montana shooting the 88 ELD-M. Keep a big pile on hand for my BR and GT.

Don't really care much about crazy velocity just can't get BR or GT cases to feed right in the kimber and want to do something 22 cal with this rifle. Shooting 243 now which is fine just boring, lol.

If I could get closer to 2000-2500 rounds out of it I could justify the plunge. Again, obviously not a match rifle, coyotes, beer cans, deer. Slow strings, open to H1000/Retumbo or just finding a low node with a long jump.

Thanks guys, searched a lot but everybody is hot-rodding or competing.
 
Is there any merit to the whole sandbagging for barrel life approach with 22CM?

My application would be a Kimber Montana shooting the 88 ELD-M. Keep a big pile on hand for my BR and GT.

Don't really care much about crazy velocity just can't get BR or GT cases to feed right in the kimber and want to do something 22 cal with this rifle. Shooting 243 now which is fine just boring, lol.

If I could get closer to 2000-2500 rounds out of it I could justify the plunge. Again, obviously not a match rifle, coyotes, beer cans, deer. Slow strings, open to H1000/Retumbo or just finding a low node with a long jump.

Thanks guys, searched a lot but everybody is hot-rodding or competing.
46+ gr of H1000 would be my suggestion. See if it gives you a speed you're happy with. H1000 was able to push 77s in my 22" barrel up to 3280fps. It will only get more efficient as bullet weight goes up.
 
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46+ gr of H1000 would be my suggestion. See if it gives you a speed you're happy with. H1000 was able to push 77s in my 22" barrel up to 3280fps. It will only get more efficient as bullet weight goes up.
That's way over what hodgdon recommends for an 85, and I asked about an 88 grain bullet . . .
But thanks for the data point.
 
Is there any merit to the whole sandbagging for barrel life approach with 22CM?

My application would be a Kimber Montana shooting the 88 ELD-M. Keep a big pile on hand for my BR and GT.

Don't really care much about crazy velocity just can't get BR or GT cases to feed right in the kimber and want to do something 22 cal with this rifle. Shooting 243 now which is fine just boring, lol.

If I could get closer to 2000-2500 rounds out of it I could justify the plunge. Again, obviously not a match rifle, coyotes, beer cans, deer. Slow strings, open to H1000/Retumbo or just finding a low node with a long jump.

Thanks guys, searched a lot but everybody is hot-rodding or competing.
Just finished a build and break-in. I'm using 43 grains of N565 and 90 grain SMK's getting 3150 fps. I've worked up to 44.5 grains without pressure. Not sure what it will do for barrel life but I'm sure I'll find out. I have a second barrel on order.
 
Just saw normal primers are 100$ and the millitary 556 are 120!. Fock me...

Been shooting my gas gun 22CM , picked up a shilen barrel in reme action on my b-day... when will this ever end? I am not buying any more primers powder ect.. have plenty right now but when I am out, I am out! I will go ride moto bike and race shifter carts, and rc planes. Don’t get me started on nitro/methanol prices though.
 
Just saw normal primers are 100$ and the millitary 556 are 120!. Fock me...

Been shooting my gas gun 22CM , picked up a shilen barrel in reme action on my b-day... when will this ever end? I am not buying any more primers powder ect.. have plenty right now but when I am out, I am out! I will go ride moto bike and race shifter carts, and rc planes. Don’t get me started on nitro/methanol prices though.
Pretty sure as long as guys keep hoarding and buying everything in sight to keep available inventory non-existent, prices will remain high, or go higher.
 
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Just finished up 1st trip to range with my new 22CM. Looking for some help or suggestions.
The Particulars:
Ruger RPR brand new action
Proof Carbon 22" 1-8 twist new barrel
Peterson brass 22CM SRP new brass
VitaVhouri N555 powder
Nolser 85gr RDF Loaded .004 jump basically to the lands
Federal SRP
So I loaded 10 break in rounds at 36gr to check overall function or rifle and load. Avg velocity was 2818fps. No pressure signs. All is good. These are the 10 rounds on the left in the picture.
Then began a pressure test ladder to find where the limits might be. Started at 36.5gr and moved up in .5gr increments to 40gr.
Was hoping to see somewhere around 3100fps before pressure signs. Started seeing the primers flatten and back out at 38gr at 39gr my son said I better stop but I went ahead and put the 40gr in the mag and promptly blew the primer. Other than the Primer signs no other signs of pressure. No sticky bolt, no swipe marks, no extraction issues.
If I go with the last safe load indicated then max velocity is around 2900fps. Kinda disappointing.
Any suggestions if I want to shoot 85-90 grain projectiles?
Do I need to bush the firing pin on a RPR to handle the small rifle primer?
Pics attached. Shows bolt face after range trip and the case heads 10 on left are 36gr. 8 on right start at 36.5 on lower left and the 40gr blowout on the upper right.
Appreciate any input.
Jerry V
RPR Bolt face.jpg

22creed test.jpg
 
I don't even shoot this cartridge but it has my attention. Extrapolating some data points . . .

N555 is right between n550 and n160.
See burn rate chart. That puts it right around hunter.

Hodgdon says a max load of hunter at 60.8k is 38.3 with the 85.5 Berger.

A max load of super, which is a couple rungs slower is 39.3.

I'd say you're at pressure and might consider a different powder.
 

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Thanks Did you have any pressure signs. Seems to be a hot load even at the starting point. Maybe I need to try CCI 400 primers as the Federal may be a little soft. At 44-45gr how was the case capacity. I still have a lot of room left in my loads with N555.
Thanks
Jerry V
 
Thanks Did you have any pressure signs. Seems to be a hot load even at the starting point. Maybe I need to try CCI 400 primers as the Federal may be a little soft. At 44-45gr how was the case capacity. I still have a lot of room left in my loads with N555.
Thanks
Jerry V
Id stay away from cci400, and go for cci450. Ive ran N555 in my 22 creed with 77tmk, running 3500fps with 43.9gr, shoots pretty good, but on edge of pressure. Primers are flat, no ejector or bolt lift. 42.5gr run 3400fps and shoots excellent there.
 
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Thanks Did you have any pressure signs. Seems to be a hot load even at the starting point. Maybe I need to try CCI 400 primers as the Federal may be a little soft. At 44-45gr how was the case capacity. I still have a lot of room left in my loads with N555.
Thanks
Jerry V
I did not experience any pressure signs. Case was filled to the bottom of the neck. I tapped them down before seating. My case capacity averaged out to 51.21 grs. H2O. GRT tells me the fill ratio is 99.6%. This was a 6 step ladder with 3 round steps. I have not revisited the combination yet but plan on pursuing the 44.6 and 45.2 loads. CBTO - 2.121, COL - 2.597
 
Appreciate the responses. I may have found the culprit of the problem. The fired cases expanded .009 in headspace. I will recheck headspace with go/nogo and confirm. Probably will resize with no bump and run another test. Had read many posts that primers backing out was sign of low pressure or headspace. The loads from 36 to 37.5 all look like you would expect from a fired round so I do not think it was a low pressure issue. I think the case expanded and filled the chamber and there was enough space behind the head to allow the primer to back out. IS my logic within reason?
 
Appreciate the responses. I may have found the culprit of the problem. The fired cases expanded .009 in headspace. I will recheck headspace with go/nogo and confirm. Probably will resize with no bump and run another test. Had read many posts that primers backing out was sign of low pressure or headspace. The loads from 36 to 37.5 all look like you would expect from a fired round so I do not think it was a low pressure issue. I think the case expanded and filled the chamber and there was enough space behind the head to allow the primer to back out. IS my logic within reason?
Can't say I've experienced anything like that, but it certainly sounds logical.
 
Anyone not running Alpha OCD 22 Creed cases, isn't experiencing this cartridge for what it is.
Honest question here, not trying to entrap you-
Just because alpha can handle higher pressure, does that actually make it safe to do so?

If we're not finding typical pressure signs, where does one draw the line. And how do we know that doesn't lead to case head separation or other catastrophic failure 5 reloads later?
 
Honest question here, not trying to entrap you-
Just because alpha can handle higher pressure, does that actually make it safe to do so?

If we're not finding typical pressure signs, where does one draw the line. And how do we know that doesn't lead to case head separation or other catastrophic failure 5 reloads later?
You're reading a lot into my statement. Nowhere did I advocate running over-pressure loads.

It's a simple reality that there are presently only TWO brass manufacturers that will actually allow you to run most cartridges at their advertised capabilities. Alpha, and Lapua.

Just because the brass doesn't instantly crack in half, doesn't mean the brass can actually take the pressure... though I think it would be better if that would be the case since most people are using inferior brass and suffering the consequences, but they don't notice. Most people aren't trying to get very many firings out of their brass, so they don't even realize what is happening.



 
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You're reading a lot into my statement. Nowhere did I advocate running over-pressure loads.

It's a simple reality that there are presently only TWO brass manufacturers that will actually allow you to run most cartridges at their advertised capabilities. Alpha, and Lapua.

Just because the brass doesn't instantly crack in half, doesn't mean the brass can actually take the pressure... though I think it would be better if that would be the case since most people are using inferior brass and suffering the consequences, but they don't notice. Most people aren't trying to get very many firings out of their brass, so they don't even realize what is happening.




Good stuff here Greg- thanks!
 
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71B01098-D556-40F6-B4EB-04654ADE2872.png
So I figured I would chime in. Take this advise for what it’s worth. I was shooting 77 gr Berger OTM’s with 4350. I can’t remember the exact charge as I am not sitting at my bench. Long story short was fighting carbon ring and pressure issues with a very mild load. Went and looked at some retumbo data and came up with these numbers. I’m still working on seating depths and fine tuning it. But again at 45.0 grains it’s very mild and shoots really well. Did make a bullet switch to 77 gr otm scenars. Single digit SD’s so far and will go to a ten shot string shortly. Maybe Sunday as I have a date with some prairie dogs tomorrow. Barrel is a carbonsix and zermatt origin short action.
 
View attachment 7913100So I figured I would chime in. Take this advise for what it’s worth. I was shooting 77 gr Berger OTM’s with 4350. I can’t remember the exact charge as I am not sitting at my bench. Long story short was fighting carbon ring and pressure issues with a very mild load. Went and looked at some retumbo data and came up with these numbers. I’m still working on seating depths and fine tuning it. But again at 45.0 grains it’s very mild and shoots really well. Did make a bullet switch to 77 gr otm scenars. Single digit SD’s so far and will go to a ten shot string shortly. Maybe Sunday as I have a date with some prairie dogs tomorrow. Barrel is a carbonsix and zermatt origin short action.
I shot the Berger 77gr OTM’s with 42.2 of H4350, average of 3390fps from a 22” 7 twist. It was on the edge, some swipe and minimal cratering but bolt lift wasn’t noticeable. So you like Retumbo over H4350 With this bullet? Its hard to turn away from a load that shoots excellent to chase improvement with a different powder, for me. CCI450 and Alpha ocd brass, for anyone wondering.
 
I shot the Berger 77gr OTM’s with 42.2 of H4350, average of 3390fps from a 22” 7 twist. It was on the edge, some swipe and minimal cratering but bolt lift wasn’t noticeable. So you like Retumbo over H4350 With this bullet? Its hard to turn away from a load that shoots excellent to chase improvement with a different powder, for me. CCI450 and Alpha ocd brass, for anyone wondering.
If you’re not having carbon problems I would stay where you are. I would be staying if it wouldn’t carbon buildup and cause pressure. I am hoping slowing the burn rate down I can prevent most of the carbon at the start of the bore.
 
I shot the Berger 77gr OTM’s with 42.2 of H4350, average of 3390fps from a 22” 7 twist.
What barrel maker? Do you know the bore size? I'm wanting a 7 twist for my 16 or 18" build but can only find 218 bore vs desired 219. Lots of people have had jacket failures once the barrel gets a lil fire cracking. I just don't want to be one of they guys with a problem.
 
What barrel maker? Do you know the bore size? I'm wanting a 7 twist for my 16 or 18" build but can only find 218 bore vs desired 219. Lots of people have had jacket failures once the barrel gets a lil fire cracking. I just don't want to be one of they guys with a problem.
Bartlein barrel, Joe Walls/Exodus Rifles chambered it I may have the freebore # somewhere but I don’t know it as I sit here on the recliner. I haven’t seen any of the otm’s explode (yet), but I have read about the vld’s having that at high rpm. I am trying 73gr Hammer Hunters with StaBall soon though, partially out of concern for bullet integrity and partially because I want a ‘hunting’ bullet.
 
Bartlein barrel, Joe Walls/Exodus Rifles chambered it I may have the freebore # somewhere but I don’t know it as I sit here on the recliner. I haven’t seen any of the otm’s explode (yet), but I have read about the vld’s having that at high rpm. I am trying 73gr Hammer Hunters with StaBall soon though, partially out of concern for bullet integrity and partially because I want a ‘hunting’ bullet.
I shot a few antelope with my 22" 7.7tw 22 creed last year using the 70gr absolute hammer. Stiff load of rl26 pushing them at 3700fps. Load shot sub 2" groups at 400y consistently. The hammer had a decent wound channel, and killed well. The bc is dogshit but at lighting speed, drops are pretty good out to 500y. I'm building another currently with a magnesium element 4.0 folding chassis and a short barrel for strictly supressed. Trying to find a 219 bore 7tw barrel currently.
 
I shot a few antelope with my 22" 7.7tw 22 creed last year using the 70gr absolute hammer. Stiff load of rl26 pushing them at 3700fps. Load shot sub 2" groups at 400y consistently. The hammer had a decent wound channel, and killed well. The bc is dogshit but at lighting speed, drops are pretty good out to 500y. I'm building another currently with a magnesium element 4.0 folding chassis and a short barrel for strictly supressed. Trying to find a 219 bore 7tw barrel currently.
Patriot valleys 22 cals are 7 twist 219
 
Has anyone tried h1000 or retumbo with an 80gr Berger or hornady bullet with a 1:8 twist?
I tried it with 77tmk, full case with a drop tube, believe around 46.5-47gr was only getting 3320 from a 22" barrel. It'd work better with heavier bullets I feel. H4350 pressured out arpund the same velocity, rl16 was near 3400. N555 shoots very well at 3400 and 3500. 3500 is too warm to run on hot days, but anything below 75 its good to go. Rl26 will flat out scream near 3600, rl23 does well around 3400 as well.
 
Krieger 7T 22" MTU 4G
Impact 737R
Hornady 88gn ELD-M
ADG 22 Creedmoor brass
Federal Gold Medal LR primer
RL26 41.7gn
3169 avg
9 xs
3.6 sd
10 shots

Says my photos are too large to upload, but the groups are really nice. Will be switching to Superformance I need my RL26 for a 7SAUM upcoming. It's in a Petersen load data sheet for 80.5's so I'll try it out. 88's fly nice, no problems with jackets or anything else. Very accurate. One of the most accurate rifles I have, satisfying to shoot and low recoil. I don't even run a brake it's threaded and capped on the muzzle.