Hang fires, get below 38 grains of h4350 or rl26, even in warm temps in a 22 creed and I get the split second delay.
Pin goes whack-huh-boom
22 creedmoor
- Thread starter Subhunter2
- Start date
Pin goes whack-huh-boom
An update for some N555, N560, N565, Superformance, and Magnum loads. I did a combination of ladders as well as some 3 shot groups. Of note cratering is not very reliable for pressure as I have a stock Rem 700 action with a non-bushed firing pin. The OAL was 2.338 for 64 BSB (Nosler 64 bonded) and 2.610 for 80 ELDX. Temp was 35 degrees and on/off rain. No ignition issues.
64 BSB and N555 was a disappointment. Velocity was only OK at 3490 at near starting loads of 44.5 gr, and pressure was obviously high with an ejector mark. Had to stop ladder.
80 ELDX/Superformance had good velocity with 3220 @ 43.4 gr. No pressure.
80 ELDX/Magnum was 3180 @ 48 gr. Some slight cratering.
80 ELDX/N560 was 3200 @ 44 gr. No pressure.
Tried some 3 shot groups with 80 ELDX/N565, with 44.5, 45.0, 45.4. All of these were quite heavily compressed, and also HOT. All had at least somewhat hard bolt lift. 45.4 was ave 3210, but w/ejector mark and cratering. Accuracy was OK
3 shot groups with Nosler 64 BSB/H4350 were much better, with 42.5, 43.0, 43.5. Very slight cratering at 43.5 but easy bolt lift and no ejector marks. 43.5 was ave 3575, and very accurate.
Was very surprised by the N555 results. I feel N565 is a little too slow for the 80's. Going to stick with H4350 for the lighter bullets, and try some groups w/N560 and Superformance. While temperature sensitive, I am not afraid of ball powders as I have had excellent results from them in other calibers (H335 is an all-time favorite in 223 for me).
64 BSB and N555 was a disappointment. Velocity was only OK at 3490 at near starting loads of 44.5 gr, and pressure was obviously high with an ejector mark. Had to stop ladder.
80 ELDX/Superformance had good velocity with 3220 @ 43.4 gr. No pressure.
80 ELDX/Magnum was 3180 @ 48 gr. Some slight cratering.
80 ELDX/N560 was 3200 @ 44 gr. No pressure.
Tried some 3 shot groups with 80 ELDX/N565, with 44.5, 45.0, 45.4. All of these were quite heavily compressed, and also HOT. All had at least somewhat hard bolt lift. 45.4 was ave 3210, but w/ejector mark and cratering. Accuracy was OK
3 shot groups with Nosler 64 BSB/H4350 were much better, with 42.5, 43.0, 43.5. Very slight cratering at 43.5 but easy bolt lift and no ejector marks. 43.5 was ave 3575, and very accurate.
Was very surprised by the N555 results. I feel N565 is a little too slow for the 80's. Going to stick with H4350 for the lighter bullets, and try some groups w/N560 and Superformance. While temperature sensitive, I am not afraid of ball powders as I have had excellent results from them in other calibers (H335 is an all-time favorite in 223 for me).
My understanding of N555 is that it is a similar but slightly slower burn rate to H4350, which should be perfect for lighter bullets. If it over-pressures before max with lighter bullets that would seem to indicate to me that it is not optimal for heavier bullets.
N560 seemed absolutely perfect for the 80's and my ladder went up to published Hornady max without any pressure at all and better velocities.
N560 seemed absolutely perfect for the 80's and my ladder went up to published Hornady max without any pressure at all and better velocities.
Is there a definitive difference in durability between Alpha, Peterson, and necked down Lapua SRP brass in the 22 Creedmoor?
Not 100% sure but I do have written down that Peterson has less capacity than the rest? Alpha OCD brass seems to be very well received. Lapua is Lapua.
New build on Precision 737R with a Stuteville Precision 20" Bartlien Carbon Fiber barrel. It's in a Magpul 700 stock now but i intend to put it in a graphite stock. I'm shooting suppressed with a Gemtech Dagger. All I've shot so far are the factory Hornady Match 80gr ELD-M and Hornady Precision Hunter 80gr ELD-X. The ELD-Ms are shooting better groups than the ELD-Xs. I'm using them for initial barrel break-in, shoot, clean repeat, so i haven'tgiven them a fair chance.
I have 100 pieces of Alpha SRP brass prepped and an starting loading tonight. I intend to start with the Hornady ELD-VT bullets, the try the Berger 75-80 grain bullets.
This is primarily intended as a coyote gun.
Finally getting settled.
24" Shilen Ratchet 1/7.5 twist
Rem 700/chassis
80 ELDX
44 gr N560
2.610 OAL
3250 fps, SD 6
Alpha LRP brass
Consistently in the 0.4-0.6 MOA group range for 5 shot groups.
Moderate load with no pressure signs. Hopefully stays that way with hotter weather.
24" Shilen Ratchet 1/7.5 twist
Rem 700/chassis
80 ELDX
44 gr N560
2.610 OAL
3250 fps, SD 6
Alpha LRP brass
Consistently in the 0.4-0.6 MOA group range for 5 shot groups.
Moderate load with no pressure signs. Hopefully stays that way with hotter weather.
22” Preferred Barrels Tikka Prefit
SAAMI chamber/Alpha reamer
80 ELD-M
41.5 N555
Alpha brass
CCI-450
3270 fps, SD’s 10-15 fps
Consistently .5-.6” 5-shot groups
SAAMI chamber/Alpha reamer
80 ELD-M
41.5 N555
Alpha brass
CCI-450
3270 fps, SD’s 10-15 fps
Consistently .5-.6” 5-shot groups
I have a 28" 7.5T 22 CM barrel coming this weekend.
Alpha Brass
BR4 primer
H4350
Berger 80 VLD's - Ill be hunting with this, coyotes primarily
41 grains and work up?
Alpha Brass
BR4 primer
H4350
Berger 80 VLD's - Ill be hunting with this, coyotes primarily
41 grains and work up?
I think that 41 grains of H4350 is a little high for a start point... While everyone's rifle is different, that exceeds Hornady and Peterson's max loads by 3-4 grains FYI.
Yeah start at 40 with the 80s. 40.5gr 4350 was max load for me in alpha brass with 88s. Yes 88s are a much longer bearing and 10% heavier. 4350 is a lil fast for 22cm.
Ok. A local guy is using the same setup, except with staball 6.5, getting 3600FPS out of a 24" tube with no heavy bolt.
I've never used that powder. Seems like crazy high velocity. He's sent me pics of the chrono, so its legit, but hard to believe that fast.
Stabal 65 charges are normal 1.5-2gr higher for equal velocity, it's a slower powder.
What powder do you run in your 22 CM?
I'm open to trying anything. It does seem 4350 is a little too fast.
Local gunshop has a lot of Hodgdon. 4831SC, Superformance, h1000, to name a few.
I did order some Staball 6.5 to try, i have never used winchester powders.
N555 is what I run with heavies in my rifles. Rl26 is the shit for high velocity, but it's dirty AF and eats throat. N555 and RL23 have given the highest velocity for cooler burning powers. I'm running 88s at 3030 in summer and at 3120 in cooler weather. This is from an 18" barrel. The 3120mv load is running pretty close to psi.
I use N565 for my 90 and 95 grain loads. I've had good luck with RL23 and H4831 with 85.5 to 88 grain bullets.
Both my 18" have been 7tw 219 bore diameter. I'm certain I could get away with 7.5tw, but come winter time in eastern Montana, our DA can be near sea level.
22 CM build finally done.
Impact 737R
Bartlein 20" 1:7
Going to load up some ladders with Berger 80 and 85.5.
Looks like H4350 is a good starting powder for both? I've got buckets of other powders too if there's another suggestion...
Was thinking 0.5 increments for the 80s from 39.0 to 41.0
And from 38.0 to 40.0 in the 85.5s
Hogdgon and Hornady manuals don't list 4350 for these bullet weights....so wanted to confirm this was a good starting ladder range before I go loading rounds.
Impact 737R
Bartlein 20" 1:7
Going to load up some ladders with Berger 80 and 85.5.
Looks like H4350 is a good starting powder for both? I've got buckets of other powders too if there's another suggestion...
Was thinking 0.5 increments for the 80s from 39.0 to 41.0
And from 38.0 to 40.0 in the 85.5s
Hogdgon and Hornady manuals don't list 4350 for these bullet weights....so wanted to confirm this was a good starting ladder range before I go loading rounds.
So if I go 16.5" at 7 twist and shoot 80 ELDM the only issue compared to longer barrel is less speed (FPS) - not sure the tradeoff compared to 18-20" barrel?
7.5-8tw likely be enough for 80s. But yes, prob 50fps loss from 18in to 16.5"
If you believe that you want to stay below 300,000 RPM on your projectile. (commonly accepted fact) Use the formula MV x 720 / twist rate. The 8 twist is easier to keep the RPM down to acceptable levels in my experience. I have both 7 and 8 twist barrels. 3300FPS out of an 8 twist is 297,000 RPM. 3000FPS out of a 7 twist is 308,571. You can see that if you want to take advantage of muzzle velocity things get out of hand pretty quickly with a 7 twist. I have had pretty good luck running 85.5 Bergers fast out of a 7 twist but I sleep better running them in a 8 twist. Your mileage may vary but an 8 twist was a better choice for me.
Mine is a gain twist 7.75-7T. 28”. Shooting 80 grain Berger vlds with alpha SRP brass. I’ve never shot a gain twist. Shoots the same in my eyes.
H4350 I started at 39 and went up to 43 I want to say. 39 grains was 3250 fps and it shot good anywhere in the 39-39.6 geain range. Over 10 shots-7 SD. Then again from 40.6-41.2 it shot phenomenal at 3450 fps with a 5-6 sd over 10 shots. I ran it up to 3700 fps, and hit heavy lift at 3675. SD was in the 10-11 range, it shot ok that got. 1/2moa. I will use either of the lower charges though. I’ll see how they perform at 500 yards.
It’s shooting great. Got 100 rounds on it this weekend.
H4350 I started at 39 and went up to 43 I want to say. 39 grains was 3250 fps and it shot good anywhere in the 39-39.6 geain range. Over 10 shots-7 SD. Then again from 40.6-41.2 it shot phenomenal at 3450 fps with a 5-6 sd over 10 shots. I ran it up to 3700 fps, and hit heavy lift at 3675. SD was in the 10-11 range, it shot ok that got. 1/2moa. I will use either of the lower charges though. I’ll see how they perform at 500 yards.
It’s shooting great. Got 100 rounds on it this weekend.
Thanks. I had heard the gain twist was helpful in stabilizing the bullet? Interesting that you didn't detect any difference.
I had a gain twist Bartlein from WOA that shot great , no better than my 7 twist, but just as good. I have heard that they are easier on the bullet jackets but I can't prove it.
Thanks. Bartlein was who I heard does gain twist...guess there has to be some technical reason - also - not sure how they determine how much "gain twist" to use?
Right, that's the theory. However ramming the bullets through the barrel at 3000fps cant be marginally "easy". With that said, it shoots great. I've never had a 22cm, but this shoots right up there with my Bartlein and CRB match barrels. I only tried gain twist because its what he had available, and he's shot tens of thousands of rounds through them with good results. It's nice to have a guy 30 miles away that can chamber, and who is a match shooter/multiple time winner.
The 80 VLDs shoot good. I took them out to 800 yards on steel with no problem, and 20mph winds.
Gain twist, 5r canted lands.....just a bunch of marketing. It may make a difference in a 218 bore 224 or 236 bore 6mm barrel, but of your not running tight bore, I HIGHLY doubt there's a difference on paper.
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It’s got 125 rounds down it, sped up about 25 fps. Looks like this is the load I’m gonna run with for now.
28” straight bartlein 22CM
40.8 grains H4350 - 3450 fps
Berger 80 VLD
Br4 primer
Alpha brass
.025 off lands
5 - 5 round groups. All averaged 3.5 SD with ES of 10-12. The last 5 rounds tonight were 1.9 SD. Pretty happy with it so far. Under 1/2 moa. Maybe .3-.4.
Gonna try some other powders too like n555 when it shows up.
28” straight bartlein 22CM
40.8 grains H4350 - 3450 fps
Berger 80 VLD
Br4 primer
Alpha brass
.025 off lands
5 - 5 round groups. All averaged 3.5 SD with ES of 10-12. The last 5 rounds tonight were 1.9 SD. Pretty happy with it so far. Under 1/2 moa. Maybe .3-.4.
Gonna try some other powders too like n555 when it shows up.
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