22 creedmoor

[Alec Cochran]

22” Preferred Barrels Tikka Prefit
SAAMI chamber/Alpha reamer
80 ELD-M
41.5 N555
Alpha brass
CCI-450
3270 fps, SD’s 10-15 fps

Consistently .5-.6” 5-shot groups

 

[Roadrace33]

I have a 28" 7.5T 22 CM barrel coming this weekend.
Alpha Brass
BR4 primer
H4350
Berger 80 VLD's - Ill be hunting with this, coyotes primarily

41 grains and work up?

 

[tekmann2377]

I think that 41 grains of H4350 is a little high for a start point... While everyone's rifle is different, that exceeds Hornady and Peterson's max loads by 3-4 grains FYI.

 

[4O6shootist]

Yeah start at 40 with the 80s. 40.5gr 4350 was max load for me in alpha brass with 88s. Yes 88s are a much longer bearing and 10% heavier. 4350 is a lil fast for 22cm.

 

[Roadrace33]

Yeah start at 40 with the 80s. 40.5gr 4350 was max load for me in alpha brass with 88s. Yes 88s are a much longer bearing and 10% heavier. 4350 is a lil fast for 22cm.

Ok. A local guy is using the same setup, except with staball 6.5, getting 3600FPS out of a 24" tube with no heavy bolt.
I've never used that powder. Seems like crazy high velocity. He's sent me pics of the chrono, so its legit, but hard to believe that fast.

 

[4O6shootist]

Ok. A local guy is using the same setup, except with staball 6.5, getting 3600FPS out of a 24" tube with no heavy bolt.
I've never used that powder. Seems like crazy high velocity. He's sent me pics of the chrono, so its legit, but hard to believe that fast.

Stabal 65 charges are normal 1.5-2gr higher for equal velocity, it's a slower powder.

 

[Roadrace33]

Stabal 65 charges are normal 1.5-2gr higher for equal velocity, it's a slower powder.

What powder do you run in your 22 CM?
I'm open to trying anything. It does seem 4350 is a little too fast.
Local gunshop has a lot of Hodgdon. 4831SC, Superformance, h1000, to name a few.

I did order some Staball 6.5 to try, i have never used winchester powders.

 

[4O6shootist]

What powder do you run in your 22 CM?
I'm open to trying anything. It does seem 4350 is a little too fast.
Local gunshop has a lot of Hodgdon. 4831SC, Superformance, h1000, to name a few.

I did order some Staball 6.5 to try, i have never used winchester powders.

N555 is what I run with heavies in my rifles. Rl26 is the shit for high velocity, but it's dirty AF and eats throat. N555 and RL23 have given the highest velocity for cooler burning powers. I'm running 88s at 3030 in summer and at 3120 in cooler weather. This is from an 18" barrel. The 3120mv load is running pretty close to psi.

 

[st1650]

N555 is the perfect powder for 22 creed for burn rate and fill rate.

 

[Roadrace33]

N555 is what I run with heavies in my rifles. Rl26 is the shit for high velocity, but it's dirty AF and eats throat. N555 and RL23 have given the highest velocity for cooler burning powers. I'm running 88s at 3030 in summer and at 3120 in cooler weather. This is from an 18" barrel. The 3120mv load is running pretty close to psi.

I will get ahold of some N555 to try.

 

[max1840]

What powder do you run in your 22 CM?
I'm open to trying anything. It does seem 4350 is a little too fast.
Local gunshop has a lot of Hodgdon. 4831SC, Superformance, h1000, to name a few.

I did order some Staball 6.5 to try, i have never used winchester powders.

I use N565 for my 90 and 95 grain loads. I've had good luck with RL23 and H4831 with 85.5 to 88 grain bullets.

 

[Roadrace33]

My local guy got the barrel done.
Looks like some really great work from a small guy here in Illinois. Shoutout to Josh Egyed!!
This barrel is MASSIVE!
Going to try h4350 and staball. N555 will be a few days to get.

 

[Milspec Longhorn]

Anyone try .22 Creed out of short barrel - looking to do a .22 Creed in 16.5" Proof CF

 

[4O6shootist]

Anyone try .22 Creed out of short barrel - looking to do a .22 Creed in 16.5" Proof CF

18" here. 3100 is top end with 88s and 90s.

 

[Milspec Longhorn]

What is the twist on your barrel?

 

[4O6shootist]

What is the twist on your barrel?

Both my 18" have been 7tw 219 bore diameter. I'm certain I could get away with 7.5tw, but come winter time in eastern Montana, our DA can be near sea level.

 

[MuleyTime]

Will be getting an 18" 8 twist in the next couple of weeks. My plan is to only shoot 75's and 80's at the heaviest.

 

[Stangs55]

22 CM build finally done.
Impact 737R
Bartlein 20" 1:7

Going to load up some ladders with Berger 80 and 85.5.
Looks like H4350 is a good starting powder for both? I've got buckets of other powders too if there's another suggestion...
Was thinking 0.5 increments for the 80s from 39.0 to 41.0
And from 38.0 to 40.0 in the 85.5s

Hogdgon and Hornady manuals don't list 4350 for these bullet weights....so wanted to confirm this was a good starting ladder range before I go loading rounds.

 

[Milspec Longhorn]

So if I go 16.5" at 7 twist and shoot 80 ELDM the only issue compared to longer barrel is less speed (FPS) - not sure the tradeoff compared to 18-20" barrel?

 

[4O6shootist]

So if I go 16.5" at 7 twist and shoot 80 ELDM the only issue compared to longer barrel is less speed (FPS) - not sure the tradeoff compared to 18-20" barrel?

7.5-8tw likely be enough for 80s. But yes, prob 50fps loss from 18in to 16.5"

 

[Milspec Longhorn]

Would a 7 twist be better than 7.5-8 for 80s?

 

[BigOldPhatboy]

Would a 7 twist be better than 7.5-8 for 80s?

If you believe that you want to stay below 300,000 RPM on your projectile. (commonly accepted fact) Use the formula MV x 720 / twist rate. The 8 twist is easier to keep the RPM down to acceptable levels in my experience. I have both 7 and 8 twist barrels. 3300FPS out of an 8 twist is 297,000 RPM. 3000FPS out of a 7 twist is 308,571. You can see that if you want to take advantage of muzzle velocity things get out of hand pretty quickly with a 7 twist. I have had pretty good luck running 85.5 Bergers fast out of a 7 twist but I sleep better running them in a 8 twist. Your mileage may vary but an 8 twist was a better choice for me.

 

[Milspec Longhorn]

Thanks much!

 

[oldrifleman]

Yeah, I am running 85.5 Bergers at 3350 in my 7 twist with great results

 

[Milspec Longhorn]

Yeah, I am running 85.5 Bergers at 3350 in my 7 twist with great results

What barrel length?

 

[oldrifleman]

26” CRB Comp contour.

 

[Milspec Longhorn]

Thanks

 

[Roadrace33]

Mine is a gain twist 7.75-7T. 28”. Shooting 80 grain Berger vlds with alpha SRP brass. I’ve never shot a gain twist. Shoots the same in my eyes.
H4350 I started at 39 and went up to 43 I want to say. 39 grains was 3250 fps and it shot good anywhere in the 39-39.6 geain range. Over 10 shots-7 SD. Then again from 40.6-41.2 it shot phenomenal at 3450 fps with a 5-6 sd over 10 shots. I ran it up to 3700 fps, and hit heavy lift at 3675. SD was in the 10-11 range, it shot ok that got. 1/2moa. I will use either of the lower charges though. I’ll see how they perform at 500 yards.

It’s shooting great. Got 100 rounds on it this weekend.

 

[Milspec Longhorn]

Thanks. I had heard the gain twist was helpful in stabilizing the bullet? Interesting that you didn't detect any difference.

 

[oldrifleman]

Thanks. I had heard the gain twist was helpful in stabilizing the bullet? Interesting that you didn't detect any difference.

I had a gain twist Bartlein from WOA that shot great , no better than my 7 twist, but just as good. I have heard that they are easier on the bullet jackets but I can't prove it.

 

[Milspec Longhorn]

Thanks. Bartlein was who I heard does gain twist...guess there has to be some technical reason - also - not sure how they determine how much "gain twist" to use?

 

[Roadrace33]

I had a gain twist Bartlein from WOA that shot great , no better than my 7 twist, but just as good. I have heard that they are easier on the bullet jackets but I can't prove it.

Right, that's the theory. However ramming the bullets through the barrel at 3000fps cant be marginally "easy". With that said, it shoots great. I've never had a 22cm, but this shoots right up there with my Bartlein and CRB match barrels. I only tried gain twist because its what he had available, and he's shot tens of thousands of rounds through them with good results. It's nice to have a guy 30 miles away that can chamber, and who is a match shooter/multiple time winner.
The 80 VLDs shoot good. I took them out to 800 yards on steel with no problem, and 20mph winds.

 

[4O6shootist]

Gain twist, 5r canted lands.....just a bunch of marketing. It may make a difference in a 218 bore 224 or 236 bore 6mm barrel, but of your not running tight bore, I HIGHLY doubt there's a difference on paper.

 

[Milspec Longhorn]

Thanks much - yes hard to find any factual data on this

 

[Roadrace33]

It’s got 125 rounds down it, sped up about 25 fps. Looks like this is the load I’m gonna run with for now.

28” straight bartlein 22CM
40.8 grains H4350 - 3450 fps
Berger 80 VLD
Br4 primer
Alpha brass
.025 off lands
5 - 5 round groups. All averaged 3.5 SD with ES of 10-12. The last 5 rounds tonight were 1.9 SD. Pretty happy with it so far. Under 1/2 moa. Maybe .3-.4.

Gonna try some other powders too like n555 when it shows up.

 

[Milspec Longhorn]

What reamers, etc, are needed to chamber .22 creed ? Thinking of purchasing my own to supply to my smith who currently doesn't chamber .22 creed (rougher + finisher?)
I see this at PTG - https://www.pacifictoolandgauge.com/22-Creedmoor-Chamber-STD-match-Reamer-_p_114632.html
And https://www.pacifictoolandgauge.com/22-Creedmoor-SAAMI-Chamber-Reamer_p_119966.html
Thanks!

 

[Darryle]

I would order from Dave Manson, I will never give PTG another nickel

 

[Milspec Longhorn]

I would order from Dave Manson, I will never give PTG another nickel

OK - what would I need? Rougher & Finisher? https://mansonreamers.com/product/22-creedmoor/

 

[Roadrace33]

What reamers, etc, are needed to chamber .22 creed ? Thinking of purchasing my own to supply to my smith who currently doesn't chamber .22 creed (rougher + finisher?)
I see this at PTG - https://www.pacifictoolandgauge.com/22-Creedmoor-Chamber-STD-match-Reamer-_p_114632.html
And https://www.pacifictoolandgauge.com/22-Creedmoor-SAAMI-Chamber-Reamer_p_119966.html
Thanks!

My guy used a Manson. That is all i know.

 

[Milspec Longhorn]

OK. Thanks.

 

[MOshooter]

Gain twist, 5r canted lands.....just a bunch of marketing. It may make a difference in a 218 bore 224 or 236 bore 6mm barrel, but of your not running tight bore, I HIGHLY doubt there's a difference on paper.

I guess Bartlein just does it for the hell of it? GTFO.

 

[Roadrace33]

I guess Bartlein just does it for the hell of it? GTFO.

It definitely must make some sort of difference. What that difference is, is beyond me. The guy who did this barrel for me claims to have 10-15k rounds comparing gain twist in 6.5x47 and 25x47. The only thing he noticed was that it was more difficult to place the barrel order when the time came.

Bugholes also told me a very similar answer.

Take that info for what you will. I only have 120 rounds on it, obviously there is zero chance I could make any claim.

Surely there is someone who has noticed something, somewhere.

 

[4O6shootist]

I guess Bartlein just does it for the hell of it? GTFO.

If it was legit better, everyone would go that direction, don't you think? Every company would be gain twist 5 groove radiused lands.

 

[Darryle]

OK - what would I need? Rougher & Finisher? https://mansonreamers.com/product/22-creedmoor/

I had Manson build me several finish reamers, my gunsmith said that was all he needed.

 

[Milspec Longhorn]

Just finish reamers only. Interesting. Will have to check into it

 

[Milspec Longhorn]

It definitely must make some sort of difference. What that difference is, is beyond me. The guy who did this barrel for me claims to have 10-15k rounds comparing gain twist in 6.5x47 and 25x47. The only thing he noticed was that it was more difficult to place the barrel order when the time came.

Bugholes also told me a very similar answer.

Take that info for what you will. I only have 120 rounds on it, obviously there is zero chance I could make any claim.

Surely there is someone who has noticed something, somewhere.

I agree with you. Has to be some reason for it

 

[Milspec Longhorn]

If it was legit better, everyone would go that direction, don't you think? Every company would be gain twist 5 groove radiused lands.

I don’t know if better but Craddock Precision uses Bartlein gain twist and the 400 Mod BB

 

[Milspec Longhorn]

I guess Bartlein just does it for the hell of it? GTFO.

Agree. Bartlein wouldn’t be offering it if there wasn’t some benefit

 

[4O6shootist]

I don’t know if better but Craddock Precision uses Bartlein gain twist and the 400 Mod BB

Hmmm they also sell 3x more rock creek barrels in their RTR line than the custom barts. These are button barrels too. I have had a mod400 6gt match barrel, the throat moves just as fast as my kreiger and hawkhill barrels. Wast of money.

 

[Roadrace33]

I went out to shoot the 22cm some more and had some really odd stuff happen. I had about 150-175 rounds down the tube and it shot lights out with just about everything. Now I'm struggling to get 1 moa, and struggling to get 15fps SD....Not sure what gives. Barrel is clean, there was a minor carbon ring, nothing I would typically worry about. I've had far worse. Scrubbing that sucker out tonight.

The good load that shot at 3450 is gone, and the good one that was at 3250 is also gone. I tried between the 3250 and 3450 in .5 gr increments, not a single one would shoot. Seriously, 1-1.5" groups. Occasionally 2 would stack, but the other 3 of the grouping would be all over the place.

I've always shot it between .020 and .040 off the lands and it was great. Berger 80 VLDS. My CBTO is 2.025, and it has only changed about .001-.002 with a total of about 290 rounds through it now.

I even grabbed two different rifles, thinking i just could not shoot that day, and that was not the case. They hammered.
I did the usual, checked action torque, scope, muzzle device, etc...all good to go.

Maybe that thing shot lights out up until it was well broken in and sped up, then fell off a cliff? Never had this happen, but i also haven't shot this overbore either.. Typically i shoot 6cm,6.5cm 300prc, 300 norma.

Is it possible the bullet is just not shooting well in the barrel anymore? This is also my first go with VLDS, which I've heard can get finnicky, but i was happy from the get go because it just shot excellent, no matter the charge weight. It even shot great up to 3650 FPS which was crazy..

I have new brass to try aswell...I will add that I'm no expert reloader, however i feel like i do OK. Charges are within .02 gr + or -. Sizing on the fancy expensive A419 dies ( no i did not pay retail, i got them dirt cheap from a good friend getting out of reloading), SAC seating die, BR4 primers. I have to be missing something, its weird how it was just a light switch..flipped off and now it will not group.

Here’s a pic, soaking wet with c4.

The other thing i was considering was bad powder? I was using up my last 2 - 1LB containers, then switching to a new 8LB jug of 4350.

Thanks for any insight, most people on here are far better than i am on this stuff.