22 creedmoor

#301
Ranger188 said:
Dschapp44, You need to tell us what the secret is to get to 1000 rounds.

Mine started to grenade bullets at 400+ rounds. ( 3 different weights and companies) Got so tired of it, pulled the barrel.
As others are finding out, to make this round worth while, need to run heavy
bullets fast and in a fast twist barrel or what's the point ballistically wise. It was fun while it lasted and learn some
things. I can run the same BC ( .5-.6 ) in a 6mm at 3000-3100 and know my bullet isn't going
to blow up at some point. (in a match or at a varmint ) Just not a practical round to shoot a lot of rounds thru for me.
Click to expand...

I don't have any black magic formula but I've really only shoot it with H1000 powder which may be cool enough burning to just stretch it a slight amount. Also the 5R rifling is supposed to be a little less aggressive against the jacket which may have helped as well. it could just be be I got lucky and got an almost perfect barrel.

I tried about 50 rounds early on with H4350 and H4831sc just to get some data but quickly moved on as the throat started to grow quickly after those 50. I did try the 88 eld in the 1100 round count and blew every single bullet up. it could just be be I got lucky and got an almost perfect barrel.
 
#302
Dschapp44 said:
I just put the 6.5 twist on last week after our season finale was over. I figured i was on borrowed time with the current 1-7 twist barrels round count so i took it off. I had one spun up as a 7 twist when i first got the reamer and figured I'd try the 6.5 twist so had two extra spun up at the time
Click to expand...

Thanks for posting up your experiences ! Should have mine together by end of month. Looking forward to your 6.5 twist results.
 
#305
AMG04 said:
The new Berger 85.5 grain Long Range Hybrids look like a good option. Specifically calls out the Creedmoor on the webpage, so I hope that means they will tolerate the high velocity and RPMs.
Click to expand...
Preordered some. Don’t know that they’ll hold together any better than anything else currently available, but worth a shot.
 
#307
AMG04 said:
The new Berger 85.5 grain Long Range Hybrids look like a good option. Specifically calls out the Creedmoor on the webpage, so I hope that means they will tolerate the high velocity and RPMs.
Click to expand...

I took a look at them and they definitely won't be replacing the 95 smk in my 22 Creed. can't shoot them over 3200 anyways and the BC is significantly lower than the 95 smk I was really hoping it would have at least been a 93 or heavier bullet. That said i think that will work well in something like a 22 BRA or for 223 F class, which seems to have been the primary driver on design. That said still surprised on an 85.5 since they already have a 80.5 that seems to be popular.

Not trying to rain on the parade but it seems to me they threw the 22 creedmoor name in there for marketing more than anything.
 
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#309
Ok, finally got back out to shoot some more test loads with the 95s in the 6.5 twist barrels. I’ve got two rifles same barrels, one is on bighorn tl2 the other on bighorn origin. The brass I am firing out of the tl2 is new alpha LRP brass and out of the origin it is new alpha SRP brass.

I started at 37gn of IMR 7828ssc and shot up to 38.2gn. I did this because I was trying to stay in the 2800 to 3000 range, already had tested from 3000 up to 3200 and those were all throwing jackets.

The TL2 went through all the loads no problems and had some really good groups and speeds. Speed range was 2850 to 3000 and best groups were in the 2950 range.
On the origin with the SRP the jackets started coming off at 2900fps, not sure why when the other rifle shot great. The speeds were 20 or so FPS slower per charge too.

Did the same test with RL26. The speed were very similar and neither rifle threw any jackets. I guess I’m going to do some more testing with the RL26. Seems like both rifles shoot the best at 2950 but the rifle with the SRP takes about .3-.5gns more of powder to get same speed.
 
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#313
Shootin25 said:
Another newb question, does barrel length have any affect of jacket failure?
Click to expand...
That’s actually a good question, I don’t know. That was a suggestion that Clayton at WTO made who built the rifle for me, he said I might try cutting it back to 24” or shorter if I was still having issues after reducing load. He didn’t put the 6.5 twist on, I bought all the stuff he just put it together for me.

Theoretically I guess that the less rifling you have to travel down the less damage you might cause to the jacket. So perhaps when the bullet comes out it the jacket will be in better condition and allow it to stay intact at higher rpms. Honestly I have no clue though and Clayton said it was something to try but he didn’t know if it would do any good either.
 
#314
As far as barrel length affecting the bullet, I would say no.
Most including me think the problem is, to fast a twist barrel and the rpm's are causing it. ( A big factor in the problem)

A carbon build up and affecting pressure or jacket damage. leaning towards no. I could clean the carbon ring out
and still get bullet blowup within 10 rounds. Would check FPS and still the same.

Fire cracking in the throat, probably a factor also. Starts to tear at the jacket right away.

The bullet gets engraved right from the start, whether it's a 18 inch barrel or 26
and the farther down the barrel, usually the smoother it is. Plus your giving up some FPS
in a shorter barrel in some loads due to us using a slower burning powder.
A friend was running a 5r and I was using a 4 groove. Both had problems.

In short, run the bullets slower or a in a slower twist barrel. Keep the RPM's at 310,000 or lower
RPM formula ( FPS x 720 = that # divided by your twist = RPM's
3000 fps x 720 = 2,160,000 divided by 7 (barrel twist) = 308,571 rpm's

Seems, no body has had problems with the Berger 80.5g Maybe that's the bullet that Berger
is basing the new 85.5g bullet from, just getting a little more B.C. from.
My 2 cents
 
#316
Settling on this. Barnes 78gr TSX over Norma MRP @45.5grs and a CCI #41 primer. The 9 shots on the chrono are the group you see in the picture.
Rifle is a Savage long action in a B&C Medalist that has be trued with PTG hand tools. The barrel is an X-Caliber 8T, 3 groove blank that is an MGM pre-fit at 18”. A buddy gunsmith of mine cut it down to length and threaded the muzzle.
 

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#317
I would never tell anyone to not invest the time and money on any build.
You will learn a lot in the process, good or bad.
Many folks have had good luck with their 22 creed's
I just wanted to post a couple concerns of mine. If any of the points I mentioned
might help someone enjoy their build more, I'm happy to help.
This is my observation and a few others on the good and bad of the 22 creed, you might have
better luck than me.
I might revisit later, if I hear of a bullet that will take high RPM's (3200 +fps) and is of a higher B.C. (.550 or higher)
that makes it worth while doing. ( still has a shorter barrel life, but know this going in )
You can always run a all copper design bullet. A little costly, but won't blow apart.
 
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#318
briscoetab said:
Ok, finally got back out to shoot some more test loads with the 95s in the 6.5 twist barrels. I’ve got two rifles same barrels, one is on bighorn tl2 the other on bighorn origin. The brass I am firing out of the tl2 is new alpha LRP brass and out of the origin it is new alpha SRP brass.

I started at 37gn of IMR 7828ssc and shot up to 38.2gn. I did this because I was trying to stay in the 2800 to 3000 range, already had tested from 3000 up to 3200 and those were all throwing jackets.

The TL2 went through all the loads no problems and had some really good groups and speeds. Speed range was 2850 to 3000 and best groups were in the 2950 range.
On the origin with the SRP the jackets started coming off at 2900fps, not sure why when the other rifle shot great. The speeds were 20 or so FPS slower per charge too.

Did the same test with RL26. The speed were very similar and neither rifle threw any jackets. I guess I’m going to do some more testing with the RL26. Seems like both rifles shoot the best at 2950 but the rifle with the SRP takes about .3-.5gns more of powder to get same speed.
Click to expand...

Picked up some 7828ssc, RL26, and 7977 yesterday. Interested in hearing about your RL26 loads. My barrel is 24” so the 7977 could be a tad slow, but worth a shot.
Specs are:
6.5 Bart HV 5R @ 24” on an Origin
Alpha 6 Creed brass SRP (already had the brass and dies)
Fed 205m or CCI 450’s
Foundation Exodus

Thanks !
 
#319
Everyone seems to like the CCI 450's better.
I tried the RL26, gave plenty of speed and some good groups, just wasn't
consistent enough for me. Heard the 7828 is a good powder.
I liked the RL23
What bullets are you going to run? With a 6.5 tw guessing the 95g smk's?
 
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#320
I’m getting very similar speeds with the RL26 and IMR 7828. In my initial testing I hit the max faster with RL26 at 3100fps and was able to get to 3250fps or so with 7828 before getting pressure signs. The 7828 seemed to give little better groups, ES and SD. So I dropped the RL 26 and tested thr 7828 further which is when I started throwing jackets.

Before I started testing loads I ran the numbers through quickloads and the two best powders based on the numbers I figured were for the 95smk’s were the 7828 and N560. The problem was QL (at least on my version doesn’t have RL26) so had to look at what other people were using for burn rates and data for RL26, so I was unsure how good the numbers were for it.

I started out testing 7828 because it’s available and I despise having to run down powder. I couldn’t find any RL26 at the time but I have gotten in the habit of stopping by small gun shops when ever I’m in different towns and happen to run across a shop that had 4lbs of RL26.

So now that I reduced the loads and slowed everything down, the RL26 seems to be giving similar results and it’s not causing the jackets to come off at same speed where IMR7828 is causing jackets to come off. Don’t really know if it is the powder but I’m about to go do some more testing in just a bit with some more RL26 loads.
 
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#322
briscoetab said:
I’m getting very similar speeds with the RL26 and IMR 7828. In my initial testing I hit the max faster with RL26 at 3100fps and was able to get to 3250fps or so with 7828 before getting pressure signs. The 7828 seemed to give little better groups, ES and SD. So I dropped the RL 26 and tested thr 7828 further which is when I started throwing jackets.

Before I started testing loads I ran the numbers through quickloads and the two best powders based on the numbers I figured were for the 95smk’s were the 7828 and N560. The problem was QL (at least on my version doesn’t have RL26) so had to look at what other people were using for burn rates and data for RL26, so I was unsure how good the numbers were for it.

I started out testing 7828 because it’s available and I despise having to run down powder. I couldn’t find any RL26 at the time but I have gotten in the habit of stopping by small gun shops when ever I’m in different towns and happen to run across a shop that had 4lbs of RL26.

So now that I reduced the loads and slowed everything down, the RL26 seems to be giving similar results and it’s not causing the jackets to come off at same speed where IMR7828 is causing jackets to come off. Don’t really know if it is the powder but I’m about to go do some more testing in just a bit with some more RL26 loads.
Click to expand...

We have a fantastic reloading shop in So Cal that is only open 3 days a week. Dedicated to the reloader. He always has powders that are hard to find, not sure why. in fact, my local Bass also has decent stock of powders.
 
#324
The 95smk’s that I am running are blowing up around 330000 rpms. With 7 twist that would be around 3200fps to hit the 330000rpms. If you went with a 7.5 twist you could bump that up to 3400fps. That being said, 330000 rpms is with the 95smk’s could be completely different with the 88 and it’s a different rifle.

I have two identical barrels in 22 creedmoor and one is blowing the 95smk’s up at 2950 (326,000rpm) and I’m getting the other one up to 3100 (343,000rpms) before they start blowing up.

I think the rule of thumb is below 310000 rpms is usually safe. For a 7 twist that would be around 3000fps and for 7.5 twist 3200fps.

I’m pretty sure the 7.5 twist will stabilize the 88, they are in the middle of marginally stable by the Berger calculator but it would be something to check in to.
 
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#325
briscoetab said:
The 95smk’s that I am running are blowing up around 330000 rpms. With 7 twist that would be around 3200fps to hit the 330000rpms. If you went with a 7.5 twist you could bump that up to 3400fps. That being said, 330000 rpms is with the 95smk’s could be completely different with the 88 and it’s a different rifle.

I have two identical barrels in 22 creedmoor and one is blowing the 95smk’s up at 2950 (326,000rpm) and I’m getting the other one up to 3100 (343,000rpms) before they start blowing up.

I think the rule of thumb is below 310000 rpms is usually safe. For a 7 twist that would be around 3000fps and for 7.5 twist 3200fps.

I’m pretty sure the 7.5 twist will stabilize the 88, they are in the middle of marginally stable by the Berger calculator but it would be something to check in to.
Click to expand...

I’m guessing based on RPM values stated above you’re referring to the two 6.5 twist barrels you’re currently testing?

Interesting how one barrel was able to push them faster without issues. Hoping I’m that lucky!
 
#330
is there any one on here running one of the on an Accuracy International? I'm thinking about having a barrel spun for my AT Probably looking to run 75eld maybe 80 gr nosler CC what barrel and twist would you reccommend. I'll mostly run this gun on steel or prairie dogs so it will not be a carrying rifle. looking to go as long as 28" if it will help performance. Have a Pdog hunt booked for May so looking to be able to take some long shots and still be able to spot my own shot Whats yalls suggestions
 
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#331
backyardsniper said:
is there any one on here running one of the on an Accuracy International? I'm thinking about having a barrel spun for my AT Probably looking to run 75eld maybe 80 gr nosler CC what barrel and twist would you reccommend. I'll mostly run this gun on steel or prairie dogs so it will not be a carrying rifle. looking to go as long as 28" if it will help performance. Have a Pdog hunt booked for May so looking to be able to take some long shots and still be able to spot my own shot Whats yalls suggestions
Click to expand...
I've got my 22Creedmoor running 80 gr. Nosler CC at a chronographed 3511 fps. Kreiger barrel (1:8) finished at 28".
 
#332
Thank you sir! That's exactly what i was wanting to verify before I purchased a barrel to have cut for my rifle. That's pretty much exactly the set up I want to run. Which brass, powder and primers are you running? I assume the Accuracy is good since that's the load you settled on. Is that a 4 groove Krieger?
 
#333
backyardsniper said:
Thank you sir! That's exactly what i was wanting to verify before I purchased a barrel to have cut for my rifle. That's pretty much exactly the set up I want to run. Which brass, powder and primers are you running? I assume the Accuracy is good since that's the load you settled on. Is that a 4 groove Krieger?
Click to expand...
Lapua brass-CCI BR primers-H-4350 41.0 grs.
 

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#339
@Shootin25 to answer you previous question from a week or two ago about the 6.5 twist, yes both the barrels I am running are 6.5 twist.

To answer the last question you ask on Saturday I haven’t had a chance to shoot any more I don’t think since last time. I think I found a load where the bullets are staying together running 37.5gns RL26 in one rifle and getting around 2930fps and running 38.0gn of RL26 in the other getting the same 2930. So rpms are around 326,000.

I shot the same speeds (2930fps) with both rifles but using IMR 7828 scc and they were coming apart pretty regularly. Not sure what the difference is or if it would be common for a powder to have that impact, the only thing I could think of was the pressure curve is flatter and easier on the bullet using RL26 but that’s a complete guess. I have quickload but since it doesn’t have RL 26 and had to input the numbers for it from other people info not sure how accurate it is.

I do have 20 round of both of the loads I mentioned above that I hope is the final test batch for them. Hoping that load works out. Hopefully I will have them shot by Sunday at the latest.
 
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#340
Did some testing today with R26 and 7977 with the 95’s.

Ran it up to 39.5 grains of 26 and ended at 2930, exactly the speed you have listed (shorter barrel). Shot good at that speed! I think I’ll push them a bit more next time out.

Ran the 7977 to 39.5 grains as well, but topped out at 2716. Sloooow.... but very consistent. Hi was 2716, low was 2713 out of a small sampling of 7 shots.

Struggled with the Mag’O speed. Was having a hard time picking up the shots. Changed the settings, and it recorded every shot thereafter.

Also ran some 85.5’s with R26. 39.5 netted 2990 FPS. Couldn’t get them to group tho.

I’ll add that the brass is Alpha 6 Creed, that has been previously loaded 4 times for another barrel. Body sized thru a Hornady 22 Creed die, then opened up with a Sinclair mandrel. Moving forward, they’ll be neck sized with a Forster die.
 
#341
Shootin25 said:
Did some testing today with R26 and 7977 with the 95’s.

Ran it up to 39.5 grains of 26 and ended at 2930, exactly the speed you have listed (shorter barrel). Shot good at that speed! I think I’ll push them a bit more next time out.

Ran the 7977 to 39.5 grains as well, but topped out at 2716. Sloooow.... but very consistent. Hi was 2716, low was 2713 out of a small sampling of 7 shots.

Struggled with the Mag’O speed. Was having a hard time picking up the shots. Changed the settings, and it recorded every shot thereafter.

Also ran some 85.5’s with R26. 39.5 netted 2990 FPS. Couldn’t get them to group tho.

I’ll add that the brass is Alpha 6 Creed, that has been previously loaded 4 times for another barrel. Body sized thru a Hornady 22 Creed die, then opened up with a Sinclair mandrel. Moving forward, they’ll be neck sized with a Forster die.
Click to expand...

Great, glad you are getting some good results. I did go all the way up to 3200 FPS when I first started load testing and I had some pretty good groups in the 3150 FPS area but then bullets started coming apart, hopefully you have some better luck at the higher speeds.

I was going to test some 88 elds but the reduction in performance made me decide that either I’m going to get the 95’s to work or nothing.
 
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#342
@Shootin25 got to shoot this last batch of test loads and settled on 37.5gns of RL 26 getting 2935fps avg in my TL2 action rifle with 26” bartlein 1-6.5 twist and 5R rifling. Other rifle is identical just has origin action was using 38.0gn of RL 26 getting 2938fps avg.

With the above loads/speed didn’t have any jacket issues and was getting 1/2”ish 5 shoot groups at 100. I didn’t even go measure but had target with 1” grids so the estimating group size from distance was plenty good for me along with SD/ES from Labradar. Hits good all the way out to 900yds no issue.

Likely this is the last I will have to report on this load and setup unless I have issues. Plan on shooting a match the end of next month with a 80-90 round count with this rifle. Wanted to push the speed a little more but honestly at this speed getting good performance and at pretty low pressure. So pretty happy as long as it holds up here.

Still interested in hearing other’s results with the gas twist barrel and heavier bullets
 
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#343
briscoetab said:
@Shootin25 got to shoot this last batch of test loads and settled on 37.5gns of RL 26 getting 2935fps avg in my TL2 action rifle with 26” bartlein 1-6.5 twist and 5R rifling. Other rifle is identical just has origin action was using 38.0gn of RL 26 getting 2938fps avg.

With the above loads/speed didn’t have any jacket issues and was getting 1/2”ish 5 shoot groups at 100. I didn’t even go measure but had target with 1” grids so the estimating group size from distance was plenty good for me along with SD/ES from Labradar. Hits good all the way out to 900yds no issue.

Likely this is the last I will have to report on this load and setup unless I have issues. Plan on shooting a match the end of next month with a 80-90 round count with this rifle. Wanted to push the speed a little more but honestly at this speed getting good performance and at pretty low pressure. So pretty happy as long as it holds up here.

Still interested in hearing other’s results with the gas twist barrel and heavier bullets
Click to expand...

I just spun on a 6.5 twist so I’ll let you know how it goes but with the 7 twist I just took of I took the 95smk up to 3350 with R26 and didn’t see jacket separation. The 88 eld blew up on me at around 3100. Where did you start to see jacket issues with the 95 smk? And was it just on occasion or every shoot. I went up to 43 grains of R26 and had great luck with them in the 3100-3150 using 42.8 H1000.

Didn’t clean the barrel for 400 rounds and had a carbon ring that ended up spiking speeds by 100 FPS and caused jacket separation every shot
 

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#344
Also if anyone has an impact action and wants to continue trying to find the end of the barrel life with my old 26 inch 7 twist barrel or just wants the barrel to try a 22 creedmoor, I’ll give it to someone for free if they pay shipping.
 
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#345
Dschapp44 said:
I just spun on a 6.5 twist so I’ll let you know how it goes but with the 7 twist I just took of I took the 95smk up to 3350 with R26 and didn’t see jacket separation. The 88 eld blew up on me at around 3100. Where did you start to see jacket issues with the 95 smk? And was it just on occasion or every shoot. I went up to 43 grains of R26 and had great luck with them in the 3100-3150 using 42.8 H1000.

Didn’t clean the barrel for 400 rounds and had a carbon ring that ended up spiking speeds by 100 FPS and caused jacket separation every shot
Click to expand...

At first I wasn’t having any jacket separation but then started having a few and then it was like every other shot. This was happening when I was testing in the 3100-3200 range. I also was starting to get some slight pressure signs around 3150.

According to quickload the 3200fps is also where the pressure started to get into that 10%-5% from max pressure range if I remember correctly. I know with the load I just posted about it is just below the 15% of max area, so pretty safe load. The pressure signs I was getting were also during days that were in the 100’s, so in colder weather I probably could have gotten another 50 or so FPS without the pressure signs I would think.

When the jackets started coming off all the time and since it was kind of a build up from nothing, to coming off almost every other shot I thought maybe there was some kind of build up so I cleaned it really good and didn’t help. This was only at like 75-100 rounds, I just now after today only have around 150 rounds on each of the barrels, all same lot of bullets too.
 
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#346
I forgot to mention most of the jacket separation issues I was having was while testing 7828ssc because during initial testing it was getting better results. During initial testing I don’t remember having any issues with jackets.

After testing 7828 further is when the jacket issues showed up, so retested RL26 at reduce load with 7828. With the 7828 was still having a few jackets come off at the higher ends of the reduced charges but wasn't with RL26 up to like 3050fps and that was only with the rifle with the origin action and not the other one even though I tested to same speeds.

After the retesting i checked quickload again just to see what the pressures looked like because couldn’t understand why one powder at same speeds would cause jacket separation and the other wouldn’t.

I really didn’t see anything that really stood out in quickload. The 7828 stayed at the top of the pressure curve slightly longer than RL26 ant took slightly longer to get back down to the muzzle exit pressure. It didn’t look significant to me but I really don’t know that much but that is the only real difference I could see. Also the burn rates/data for RL 26 in quickload is not accurate and I was using some other data I had found and adjustments that I made to get numbers to line up with real world speeds, so not sure how well it actually matches up with what is actually happening.
 
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#350
briscoetab said:
I forgot to mention most of the jacket separation issues I was having was while testing 7828ssc because during initial testing it was getting better results. During initial testing I don’t remember having any issues with jackets.

After testing 7828 further is when the jacket issues showed up, so retested RL26 at reduce load with 7828. With the 7828 was still having a few jackets come off at the higher ends of the reduced charges but wasn't with RL26 up to like 3050fps and that was only with the rifle with the origin action and not the other one even though I tested to same speeds.

After the retesting i checked quickload again just to see what the pressures looked like because couldn’t understand why one powder at same speeds would cause jacket separation and the other wouldn’t.

I really didn’t see anything that really stood out in quickload. The 7828 stayed at the top of the pressure curve slightly longer than RL26 ant took slightly longer to get back down to the muzzle exit pressure. It didn’t look significant to me but I really don’t know that much but that is the only real difference I could see. Also the burn rates/data for RL 26 in quickload is not accurate and I was using some other data I had found and adjustments that I made to get numbers to line up with real world speeds, so not sure how well it actually matches up with what is actually happening.
Click to expand...

Interesting. I can’t recommend the bore scope that’s been talked about in the equipment section enough. You can see the lands and buildup of carbon crazy easy. I’m going to put some rounds tomorrow to get up to 100 fired before I start doing ladders thru my new 6.5 twist 22 creed and my 22 dasher. Both are using 6.5 twists. I loaded the 22 creedmoor with 41 grains (Should be around 3000 FPS) and my old load of 42.8 grains (should be around 3100 FPS) of H1000 so I’ll let you guys now how it goes. I’m also trying 34 grains of reloader 23 which should put it in the 3000-3050 FPS range
 
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