22 creedmoor

Wow....just getting parts together for my 22 Creed and reading this has been very informative. Let me know if I'm off base but here is my synopsis of this thread:

First of all I am really surprised how many people went with faster twist barrels (7 and faster). The problem of blowing bullets up does not surprise me....I wouldn't have known, but not surprised based on experience I list below.

Faster twist barrels are hit and miss with blowing bullets apart. 8 Twist seems to be a much better choice for up to 88 grain bullets. I didn't read anything where the 95 grain bullets did not stabilize in an 8 twist....I would like to hear. I would bet 95's would be just fine in an 8 twist at my elevation (4600) and the high speeds.

I would think with such an overbore design, you should be able to get away with a slower twist barrel than the suggested by the manufacturer. In fact, I experienced that years ago with a 20BR and the 55 grain Berger bullets. Using an 8 twist would blow them apart occasionally, but never happened in my 9 twist and they were pretty much twins ballistically. I believe Berger stated an 8 was required. That's when I realized the bullet manufacturer's suggestion is more than likely not based on extreme speeds an overbore wildcat can produce. I'm sure I'm missing something more scientific but that's my opinion based on experience.

Thoughts?
 
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Got a chance to shoot my new rifle. 22 inch CBI barrel with a 1-7 twist.

No load development yet, but fired some Copper Creek 75gr ELDMs and 95gr SMKs.

Less than 20 rounds fired, but zero bullet failures.

The 95s from Copper Creek averaged 2885 fps with an SD of 1.8 (small three shot sample). Sub half MOA group.

Now I'm really looking forward to loading the 95s and 77 gr LRX to their full potential.
 

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Wow....just getting parts together for my 22 Creed and reading this has been very informative. Let me know if I'm off base but here is my synopsis of this thread:

First of all I am really surprised how many people went with faster twist barrels (7 and faster). The problem of blowing bullets up does not surprise me....I wouldn't have known, but not surprised based on experience I list below.

Faster twist barrels are hit and miss with blowing bullets apart. 8 Twist seems to be a much better choice for up to 88 grain bullets. I didn't read anything where the 95 grain bullets did not stabilize in an 8 twist....I would like to hear. I would bet 95's would be just fine in an 8 twist at my elevation (4600) and the high speeds.

I would think with such an overbore design, you should be able to get away with a slower twist barrel than the suggested by the manufacturer. In fact, I experienced that years ago with a 20BR and the 55 grain Berger bullets. Using an 8 twist would blow them apart occasionally, but never happened in my 9 twist and they were pretty much twins ballistically. I believe Berger stated an 8 was required. That's when I realized the bullet manufacturer's suggestion is more than likely not based on extreme speeds an overbore wildcat can produce. I'm sure I'm missing something more scientific but that's my opinion based on experience.

Thoughts?

I don’t think you have the wrong train of thought. My first barrel was a 7 twist because I couldn’t find any 6.5 twists at the time and when you put the 95 smk bullet into bergers stability calculator the 7 twist is only marginally stable even at 3200 FPS. While I didn’t have any stability problems in cold weather my shooting partner uses a 22 dasher with a 6.5 twist going 3050-3100 FPS and has seen zero jacket failures and that is still going greater that 310,000 rpms. I had my next barrel spun up as a 6.5 twist based off of those results. Time will tell if I made the right choice but I would be weary about going slower that a 7 twist or maybe a 7.5 twist with the 95 smk. The thing that worries me about the 7.5 twist is the loss in BC due to how unstable it says that bullet would be which then doesn’t really make it a worthwhile exercise over the 88eld and at that point you should just move back to a 6 creed shooting a 110 smk since you get a better bc and speed than the 88 eld will give you.

On a side not I had three identical rifles that all weighted the same and had the same brakes on them. one in 6.5 creed, one in 6XC and one in 22 creed. The 22 creed and 6xc both had the same amount of felt recoil so if you can’t push a 95smk there isn’t a benefit to me over a 6 creed
 
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I don’t think you have the wrong train of thought. My first barrel was a 7 twist because I couldn’t find any 6.5 twists at the time and when you put the 95 smk bullet into bergers stability calculator the 7 twist is only marginally stable even at 3200 FPS. While I didn’t have any stability problems in cold weather my shooting partner uses a 22 dasher with a 6.5 twist going 3050-3100 FPS and has seen zero jacket failures and that is still going greater that 310,000 rpms. I had my next barrel spun up as a 6.5 twist based off of those results. Time will tell if I made the right choice but I would be weary about going slower that a 7 twist or maybe a 7.5 twist with the 95 smk. The thing that worries me about the 7.5 twist is the loss in BC due to how unstable it says that bullet would be which then doesn’t really make it a worthwhile exercise over the 88eld and at that point you should just move back to a 6 creed shooting a 110 smk since you get a better bc and speed than the 88 eld will give you.

On a side not I had three identical rifles that all weighted the same and had the same brakes on them. one in 6.5 creed, one in 6XC and one in 22 creed. The 22 creed and 6xc both had the same amount of felt recoil so if you can’t push a 95smk there isn’t a benefit to me over a 6 creed

Yeah, I've pretty much decided to go with an 8 twist.....however I won't be trying to get everything out if by using 95's. My primary purpose calls for 75-88 grain bullets.
 
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Sticking with the 95’s.
Shoots better than I can. I’m not very patient ...... the ladder testing was actually 15 shots.

I’ll add that the barrel has picked up speed. It now has 165 rounds thru it.
 
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Yeah, I've pretty much decided to go with an 8 twist.....however I won't be trying to get everything out if by using 95's. My primary purpose calls for 75-88 grain bullets.

I would guess 8 twist would be good call for those bullets without running the numbers. I originally went with the 6.5 twist because running the numbers with the Berger stability calculator a 7 twist was around the middle of marginally stable and I didn’t want to risk not being able to stabilize the 95’s because that was the only bullet I was planning on running.
If I was going to redo it I would go with the 7 twist because at the time I figured the 7 twist would stabilize it but I didn’t see a reason not to go ahead and get the 6.5 twist. After ordering both of my barrels I started thinking about it and decided to run the numbers for the rpm’s and then I got little worried. If I would have ran the rpm numbers before ordering the barrels I would have done the 7 twist and shot 80-90gn bullets if the 95’s didn’t stabilize. Going with the 6.5 if the jackets won’t stay intact don’t really have a lot of options other than slowing the bullet down.
 
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22 creedmoor load data for those who are interested.
Virgin untouched Peterson LRP Brass
40.1 Grains of H-4350
Berger 85.5 grain bullets
Federal 210M primers.
3069 Fps
.882 inch 5 shot group at 200 yards.
16.5 inch 1:8 twist benchmark barrel in DTA SRS A2
.005 off the lands
IS-D 5.8

FYI I’m not an experienced reloaded only been at it for a 1.5 years and have a lot to learn
 
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Got my GAP broken in today.
started with 41.0 H4350, Alpha LRP brass and the 75 ELDM at 2.650 COAL.
worked pretty good, just getting started...
GAP Templar V1 sheep hunter port action
manners EH-2
22” Bartlein 3b 8 twist
TBAC CB for my Ultra 7 6.5
APA RTG DBM
S&B PMII 3-12x50


View attachment 7189860View attachment 7189861View attachment 7189862
Velocity?
I’m thinking of having keystone accuracy spin one up in a 1-8 finished at 20”
Hopeing to get 3400 fps with 75’s
 
Just got my new barrel and did some ladder tests. Using 6 creedmoor lapua brass and a 95 smk with a coal of 2.750 on a 26 inch barrel. Reloader 23 seems to be the go to powder.
 

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Wrecking their world. They do just fine on Oklahoma whitetails too. My neice borrowed my spare 22cm running the 69tmk at 3510 and nuked a doe (her first deer btw) at about 100-125yds. Shredded both lungs and the heart. Heart was in chunks. Proud uncle was I. View attachment 7201097

Just ordered my barrel?
Have you tried the 65 game king for pelt saving? They worked real good in my 223 Ackley on dogs. Fur prices in the north west have been fairly good and stable the last 3 years.
Thanks
 
Just ordered my barrel?
Have you tried the 65 game king for pelt saving? They worked real good in my 223 Ackley on dogs. Fur prices in the north west have been fairly good and stable the last 3 years.
Thanks

I have not tried the 65 SGK, but it is a great bullet. I ran some in my 223ai as well. I have 500 of them sitting on the bench. The 69 tmk shot so well, I didn't bother with the game king.
 
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I have been having great luck with my 22CM build. It is a Rem700 SA in an MDT chassis. 27.5" 1/7 twist heavy bull barrel. I've been running the 95gr SMKs at 3125 with no problems at all. The hornady 88gr ELD-Ms shoot almost as well as the SMKs. I'm using H4831SC and Alpha brass for the 95s and resized Hornady 6mm CM brass for the 88s. Both bullets shoot well under .75" with the SMKs regularly shooting .25" at 100 yards. I've shot them both on steel out to just under 1100 yards so far and will try pushing them out to 1500 once the weather warms again in the spring. Fantastic, fun round when fired out of an 18.5 lb rifle!!
22 creedmoor Group.jpg



My Rem700 22 Creedmoor 1.jpg
 
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How are the 69 tmk s performing on dogs?

69gr tmk slays dogs, cats, and other small creatures (badgers/coons/possoms/rock chucks) from my experience. up close it will turn the insides into soup. I loaded up 1000 of them in old match brass and haven't had much time to put them to use in the last 6months. but now that I am back to work and in a better part of the country for killing (NO OFFENSE OKIES, I JUST LIKE SPOTLIGHTING) I am going to get the 22creed back to work.

That should be do-able. My buddy is running a 20" proof 8tw and slings the 69tmk at 3509 fps with 39.0gns or Varget out of Lapua srp brass.

I am not loaded like you Oil Field boys! I am running Hornady 2x fired brass out of the 20" 22creed(kinda just used all of the stuff I had laying around from match rifles). I don't take good enough care of my brass to use that spendy stuff for hunting with. This Load is HOT. so proceed with caution. I can run 5 rounds through the gun, but if you try and run a 10rd mag thru the gun, you're going to either blow a primer or pop a few out of the primer pockets. Just be aware of it.
 
Settling on this. Barnes 78gr TSX over Norma MRP @45.5grs and a CCI #41 primer. The 9 shots on the chrono are the group you see in the picture.
Rifle is a Savage long action in a B&C Medalist that has be trued with PTG hand tools. The barrel is an X-Caliber 8T, 3 groove blank that is an MGM pre-fit at 18”. A buddy gunsmith of mine cut it down to length and threaded the muzzle.
Great Info, I am thinking about a short one, have botha 22 & 16.5 6mm Creed and love both, though I grab the shorty more often. shorty seems to be almost exactly 200 fps slower across the board. Still having a hard time deciding on length, want to order barrel soon, gonna have to make a command decision. Any comments pro or con you have on 18" gun welcome, pm me if you don't want to post.
 
First post here. I appreciate the info here as it’s helped me develop loads.

I completed my 22 Creed build recently and I’m trying to work up some loads. So far H4350 and BLC2 have had the best results.

I have a 26” McGowen Barrel on a Howa Action. Boyd AT-One stock modified for the Full Bull Barrel (1.145” diameter).

Love it so far!
 
Here is what I have for load data so far:

80 gr. ELD-M .015 off
Superformance - 44gr 3520 fps (little warm.

77 gr. RDF .032 off
H4350 - 42gr 3515 fps
BL-C2 - 38gr 3450fps (38.8gr MAX)

I’ve tried RL15, RL17, RL23, 4831, Varget, and H380.

I’m mainly running 70-80gr bullets, as I have a 1:8 barrel.

Has anyone tried Benchmark?
 
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Quick update:
I struggled with consistency for a bit. Barrel has around 600 now, and really settled in. These 3 were the first three rounds loaded to this spec. Barrel had around 500 at the time and only cleaned at 250ish. Only a 3 shot group, but was enough to leave it as is. Vetted to 1070 yds and was spot on. No issues blowing bullets to date.

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Just got back from the range. It was 33 degrees, wind was 15-20 mph, and snowing sideways. I was testing to see how the new Berger 85.5 performed.

I tried 3 different loads to start with. 5 shot groups. These are just the first 3 powders I thought might work the best:

1) 41.0gr Superformance - avg 3141 fps ( less than a .500” group)
2) 39.0gr RL17 - avg 3266 fps (less than a .300” group)
3) 40.1gr H4350 - avg 3211 (less than a 1.00” group)

Neither of these showed any pressure signs and the bullets didn’t come apart. They all made a nice crater in the steel, even out to 600yds.

I think I’ll go up a bit with the RL17 and see what that’ll do.

Anyone else use these 85.5’s?
 
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I have been breaking in a barrel and looking for a velocity node. It is a 26” Benchmark and 85.5 Berger Hybrids.

I started with 40.2 of H4350 based on some 90 VLDs I ran in another 22 Creed. I also tried RL26 and H1000; RL26 just didn’t group as well as the H1000 and H4350. Using H4350, I was getting some vertical at the 40.2 which was roughly 3205 FPS. I dropped it down to 39.5 and groups became worse.... so I added more powder and it tightened up. The H1000 was a great little group, but didn’t have the FPS.

I have not found where I would consider “pressure”, but will update when I shoot the next rounds I have loaded up. Will try to go up to 41.1 on H4350 and 45.5 on H1000.... I am at 60 rounds so I suspect the barrel will spread up just in time to start dropping powder back down.

H4350:
40.2... 0.6 MOA 3205 with ES of 19

RL26
42.0... 0.7 MOA 3203 with ES of 14
43.0... 1.2 MOA 3281 with ES 24

H1000
44.0... 0.4 MOA 3146 with ES of 8

Hope this helps!
 
I have been breaking in a barrel and looking for a velocity node. It is a 26” Benchmark and 85.5 Berger Hybrids.

I started with 40.2 of H4350 based on some 90 VLDs I ran in another 22 Creed. I also tried RL26 and H1000; RL26 just didn’t group as well as the H1000 and H4350. Using H4350, I was getting some vertical at the 40.2 which was roughly 3205 FPS. I dropped it down to 39.5 and groups became worse.... so I added more powder and it tightened up. The H1000 was a great little group, but didn’t have the FPS.

I have not found where I would consider “pressure”, but will update when I shoot the next rounds I have loaded up. Will try to go up to 41.1 on H4350 and 45.5 on H1000.... I am at 60 rounds so I suspect the barrel will spread up just in time to start dropping powder back down.

H4350:
40.2... 0.6 MOA 3205 with ES of 19

RL26
42.0... 0.7 MOA 3203 with ES of 14
43.0... 1.2 MOA 3281 with ES 24

H1000
44.0... 0.4 MOA 3146 with ES of 8

Hope this helps!

Good info.

What twist barrel is this that you’re breaking in?

I do have some H1000, maybe I’ll give that a shot next time.
 
Quick update:
I struggled with consistency for a bit. Barrel has around 600 now, and really settled in. These 3 were the first three rounds loaded to this spec. Barrel had around 500 at the time and only cleaned at 250ish. Only a 3 shot group, but was enough to leave it as is. Vetted to 1070 yds and was spot on. No issues blowing bullets to date.

View attachment 7213285

That group and round count has me feeling confident. Just finished building mine. Has 25 rounds through it now.

Shooting Copper Creek loads then moving into load development.
 
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Good info.

What twist barrel is this that you’re breaking in?

I do have some H1000, maybe I’ll give that a shot next time.

I am going to be honest with you, I am not 100% for sure for sure, but I think it is a 7.5 twist. I looked at my invoice and it didn't say.

H1000 has treated me well on this cartridge, it is my go to with 95 SMKs.
 
I am going to be honest with you, I am not 100% for sure for sure, but I think it is a 7.5 twist. I looked at my invoice and it didn't say.

H1000 has treated me well on this cartridge, it is my go to with 95 SMKs.

I tried H1000 from 43-45.3 with the 85.5’s and I could not get any good groups. I was hopeful it was going to work out as I have a lot of this powder since I use it in my 300 WM.
 
I tried H1000 from 43-45.3 with the 85.5’s and I could not get any good groups. I was hopeful it was going to work out as I have a lot of this powder since I use it in my 300 WM.


I shot a little today... I shot up to 45.5 of H1000 and had okay results. My best group was at 44.0 and it was about .5 MOA and was all horizontal variance. My 45.0 group had two touching and a flier.... I might play with 45 a little more. I didn't get into pressure at all and might try go up a little but I am afraid I will get into pressure or run out of capacity before they tighen back up.

I also shot H4350, I went up to 41.1 and ran into pressure at 40.8. Light swipes at 40.8 and then a little bit of click at the top of the bolt at 40.1, but the the groups were around .6 to .7. My best load so far is 40.2 for 3205 and under 1/4" at 100.

I have 75 rounds on this barrel and will probably search a little more for the next 25 and see where it lands. I was hoping to get these over 3300, but... 3200 is not a bad speed for the bullet.
 
I shot a little today... I shot up to 45.5 of H1000 and had okay results. My best group was at 44.0 and it was about .5 MOA and was all horizontal variance. My 45.0 group had two touching and a flier.... I might play with 45 a little more. I didn't get into pressure at all and might try go up a little but I am afraid I will get into pressure or run out of capacity before they tighen back up.

I also shot H4350, I went up to 41.1 and ran into pressure at 40.8. Light swipes at 40.8 and then a little bit of click at the top of the bolt at 40.1, but the the groups were around .6 to .7. My best load so far is 40.2 for 3205 and under 1/4" at 100.

I have 75 rounds on this barrel and will probably search a little more for the next 25 and see where it lands. I was hoping to get these over 3300, but... 3200 is not a bad speed for the bullet.

Sounds like you’re getting close to figuring it out with the H1000.

I‘m right at 40.5 grains of RL17. This seems to be what mine likes with the Berger. Those are averaging 3330 fps and had groups less than .25” at 100yds.

I’m also running a can on my 1:8 26” barrel. I have about 210 rounds down it now.

Tomorrow I’m going to try out to 1400yds with the Berger 85.5, Nosler 85 RDF, and the 77 RDF.
 
Anyone experiencing feeding issues? I’ve noticed it likes to bind the round just as it’s leaving the mag. When I run the bolt quickly, it’s a nonissue. I’ve tried adjusting the lips several times and still having the issue.
 
A quick heads up.....

I tested my newest 22CM a few days ago at -17F. It has a 17.5" 1-7", and would not stabilize 88's. I tried some 75's I had loaded up with R26(3270fps), and they shot lights out.

I then shot the 88's in my 16"(1-6.5"), and shot were fine.....(an established load).

If you plan on hunting with heavies in very cold temps with a short barrel, I'd recommend lighter bullets, or faster twist than 1-7"

Better safe than sorry.
 
A quick heads up.....

I tested my newest 22CM a few days ago at -17F. It has a 17.5" 1-7", and would not stabilize 88's. I tried some 75's I had loaded up with R26(3270fps), and they shot lights out.

I then shot the 88's in my 16"(1-6.5"), and shot were fine.....(an established load).

If you plan on hunting with heavies in very cold temps with a short barrel, I'd recommend lighter bullets, or faster twist than 1-7"

Better safe than sorry.

Great info, Pat. Thanks!
 
I'm just getting around to trying the 85.5's. I've been using the 82 Berger and get velocities from 3450 to 3530 in a 26" barrel with 4831, R26, R23 and MRP.. I've been mostly using R23 around 3450. I was expecting similar (or close) velocity to the 85.5 given the bearing surface is less than the 82. Seeing the velocity some are reporting above gives me pause.
 
I have a Tikka ctr that I’m about to rebarrel. I’m leaning towards an 18” 22 creedmoor, but all this talk about different twist rates and bullets not stabilizing/blowing up has me a little apprehensive. I live/hunt about 250’ asl in the deep south. Will I be fine with 1:7.5 and the 88 eldm’s, or do you suggest I go with a different twist?