.223 - 5.56
- Thread starter Two Shoes
- Start date
Haven't started shoot it yet. Just trying to decide what to start with. This is a 20 inch barrel, so speed will be limited. 1 in 8, so I am sure it will not stablize the 85 RDF. Have your tried the Nosler 77 custom competition bullet or 77 RDF?
Bill
Bill
+ 2000 on 23.4 grains of 8208xbr under a 77 grain Nosler custom competition in L/C brass. Shot sub MOA at 100 yards and near minute of guy holding the rifle at 600 yards... if you use SMKs, I bet it will do a bit better...
Does anyone know if the Hornady 75gr HPBT likes a jump or does it like being close to the lands?
my load is 23.1 XBR with a 77 tmk seated max mag length and its 1/2 moa load out of my mk12 mod 1. CLE Douglas on it. Sub softball size rock at 615 yards. And 680 was hitting the 6” plate over and over. Boring accurate
The reason I ask is because I was given a Savage model 11 in 223. The rifle is pretty accurate with the same ammo I use for my AR pistol. The magazine is stupid long for a 223 round. I bought a 223 Hornady modified case and from base to ogive was 1.960 with the 75gr bullet. If I remember correctly the mag will let me seat out to 2.455 for the cartridge.
i made some dummy rounds and they are 2.331 COAL. Here they are sitting in the mag. I'm going to be using this rifle for my son and as a trainer rifle also.
It's weird because I could never get the 264 RDFs to shoot out of my RPR. A lot of people have have said they love a huge jump, like .100 of a jump. I gave up trying with them. Glad to see you found a good grouping with them.
I’m running an 18” ar and made loads on the edge of pressure with the 73 elds and they were zooming. I shot a rock chunk at 200 yards and flipped it like a prarie dog. The problem I have with Hornady is the runout between lots. I would get random 4-5” high fliers at 400. Switched to the 77 TMKs and loaded up 3,000 rounds with them. Killed a buck mule deer at 500 yards and an antelope at 230 and they preformed flawlessly
LC brass ‘12 and ‘13
77 TMK
23.1 grains of 8208 XBR
CCI 400
2,750 FPS out of 18” douglas
Accuracy 1/2 moa and will hold 3/4-1 moa at 600. Shot it out to 900 with good accuracy
LC brass ‘12 and ‘13
77 TMK
23.1 grains of 8208 XBR
CCI 400
2,750 FPS out of 18” douglas
Accuracy 1/2 moa and will hold 3/4-1 moa at 600. Shot it out to 900 with good accuracy
LC brass
Federal LRP match primers
75gr Hornady BTHP
23.2 8208 XBR
Savage 11 223 with 24" barrel
2845fps
.5 MOA or smaller at 100
Federal LRP match primers
75gr Hornady BTHP
23.2 8208 XBR
Savage 11 223 with 24" barrel
2845fps
.5 MOA or smaller at 100
I know this is only one grouping. But this was during my load development. I will get a bunch of groups next week. My son shot out to 419 yards with this load and had about a 50% hit rate on steel plates. Very proud of him.
Going to start working up loads with a 75ELD-M with Lapua brass in a 1/7 twist 26” barrel. I plan on doing an OCW test with a couple different powders listed below. What should my starting and stopping charge weights for each powder be?
8208: 23- 24.5 in .2gr increments?
Varget: 22.8-25
H4895: 23.5-24.8
8208: 23- 24.5 in .2gr increments?
Varget: 22.8-25
H4895: 23.5-24.8
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How did your testing go with those powders? I’m contemplating on which one of those to use.
Nothing yet. I’m traveling for work and need to pick up some 8208. I was just hoping to nail down the charges I was going to try beforehand. After looking around it seems like most people find there load between the ranges I gave for each powder
I know this post is from 2019, but I run the Nosler 77 gr Custom Comps in my .223 Wylde bolt gun with 8208XBR. I load to 23.2gr, at .015 off the lands. I’m using a 1/8 twist 22” barrel and get 2793 fps.
I also tested the 77gr RDF and they are hammering too. I’m running those at 23.4gr of 8208XBR at about 2850 fps. I jump them .030.
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finally got a .223 put together. bought a used barrel, 24" muellerworks 1:7.5 twist throated for the 75g ELD.
75g ELD
Virgin Lapua Brass
CCI 450
23.5g H4895
@2845fps
SD = 7
Jumped .040"
under 1/2 moa
stupid fun.
i didn't prep the brass at all, just loaded it and shot.
i got up to 24.5g @ 3020fps before I saw even minimal signs of pressure (primers started cratering a touch). but not bad at all.
75g ELD
Virgin Lapua Brass
CCI 450
23.5g H4895
@2845fps
SD = 7
Jumped .040"
under 1/2 moa
stupid fun.
i didn't prep the brass at all, just loaded it and shot.
i got up to 24.5g @ 3020fps before I saw even minimal signs of pressure (primers started cratering a touch). but not bad at all.
With that twist rate how do the heavies do? I have a 1:8 24in Wilson and anything heavier than a 62 doesn't do well at all. It has a match chamber thinkin about goin wylde
I've had a Bushmaster Varminter for quite a while and it great for hunting but was hit and miss on accurate or tight grouping loads. I think a factory Hornady 55gr varmint load shot reasonably well out of it. Then I was looking at some old data and found this load and it was amazing.
WW brass
WW primers
53gr Hornady Match
25gr IMR 4064
Bushmaster 24" 1:9 twist barrel
SpecWar 7.62 Suppressor
3077 Avg fps
Best 3 shot group @ 100yds .219 MOA
WW brass
WW primers
53gr Hornady Match
25gr IMR 4064
Bushmaster 24" 1:9 twist barrel
SpecWar 7.62 Suppressor
3077 Avg fps
Best 3 shot group @ 100yds .219 MOA
Here's my 800m LR .223 load:
Brass: Lapua
Bullet: 80gr Berger VLD
Primer: CCI BR4
Powder: Varget 23.8gr
Seating: .010" jump (ogive oal measurement: 1.870")
Barrel: 26" Benchmark varmint profile 1:8"
Velocity: 2915fps 10 shot Ave ES=16 SD=7.1
Environmentals: temp=+17c, R.H.=45% ASL=1124m wind=n/a
Here's an 11 shot group at 800m (the low shot is my sighter):
Brass: Lapua
Bullet: 80gr Berger VLD
Primer: CCI BR4
Powder: Varget 23.8gr
Seating: .010" jump (ogive oal measurement: 1.870")
Barrel: 26" Benchmark varmint profile 1:8"
Velocity: 2915fps 10 shot Ave ES=16 SD=7.1
Environmentals: temp=+17c, R.H.=45% ASL=1124m wind=n/a
Here's an 11 shot group at 800m (the low shot is my sighter):
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Here's my 500m gopher gun load...
Brass: Lapua
Bullet: 69gr Sierra SMK
Primer: CCI BR4
Powder: BLC-2 26.6gr
Seating: .010" jump (ogive oal measurement: 1.885")
Barrel: 25" factory CZ varmint profile 1:9"
Velocity: 2994fps 10 shot Ave ES=19 SD=7.8
Environmentals: temp=+21c R.H.=33% ASL=683m wind=n/a
Brass: Lapua
Bullet: 69gr Sierra SMK
Primer: CCI BR4
Powder: BLC-2 26.6gr
Seating: .010" jump (ogive oal measurement: 1.885")
Barrel: 25" factory CZ varmint profile 1:9"
Velocity: 2994fps 10 shot Ave ES=19 SD=7.8
Environmentals: temp=+21c R.H.=33% ASL=683m wind=n/a
Anyone give the 77RDF a shot yet? What is it tending to like with regards to there Lands?
Going to try slinging them out of a 20" with AR Comp for tac class.
Going to try slinging them out of a 20" with AR Comp for tac class.
Wanted to ping you 75gr ELDM reloaders:
I have impact Bartlein 24” 1-7 barrel, assuming it’s just a SAAMI spec chamber.
I cannot find a consistent accuracy node, I’ve tried .020 to .050, does this round like to be AT the lands? It’s grouping at 1moa. Comparatively with 77gr BlackHills I easily get those sub .5 groups all day, and those suckers are under mag length and jumping forever.
What do you guys think?
I have impact Bartlein 24” 1-7 barrel, assuming it’s just a SAAMI spec chamber.
I cannot find a consistent accuracy node, I’ve tried .020 to .050, does this round like to be AT the lands? It’s grouping at 1moa. Comparatively with 77gr BlackHills I easily get those sub .5 groups all day, and those suckers are under mag length and jumping forever.
What do you guys think?
LC brass
Federal Small Rifle
Varget
24.5gr-25.4gr
MV 2800-2900
10rds ladder at .2gr increments
I’m getting SDs of 5-9, I stopped messing with the charge because I never got the accuracy I was looking for. 24.8 is a good SD, I started playing with the depth a bunch but I honestly became a little frustrated with this guy and worked on other stuff.
I’ll get at an MOA group, just not seeing that knot tying accuracy I thought I would get after 70 rds of testing.
I need to pull up my log book for what my measurements were. I was hopeful someone had the same barrel setup and tonight I might compare loads.
For what it’s worth, this is my trainer and I’m considering using it my Mammoth gun secondary, was hoping these 75s would buck the wind a little better than my 77gr box black hills. I have several thousand of those down the tube.
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Where your ladder target? You do know you arent looking for accuracy in a ladder or OCW when picking a charge weight right? Thats not the point of a ladder or OCW. Your looking for a node (consecutive charges with the same POI). Accuracy is to be ignored at this stage... Just because 24.8gr has good SD's isnt an identifier its your node... Thats your problem. From my extensive load development/testing with Varget and H4895 and 75 ELD's in 5 different barrels you already started your starting charge weight too high...
If I was you, I would redo your initial load development properly from 24.0-25.0gr in .2gr increments. Looking for the node, ignoring group size. Once you have done that, found your node, and selected a charge in the center of the node THENNNN you can do seating depth testing to tighten the groups (if needed)... I do all initial load development @ .02 off.
Here's my initial OCW before seating depth testing with Varget and H4895 and 75 ELD
Varget OCW
Varget Seating Depth Test After selecting charge in node
H4895 OCW
H4895 Seating Depth After Selecting charge in node
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Hmm I’ll go back to the drawing board this week, I’ll be more methodical about recording the results. I’ll get the pictures, I will start with a longer seating depth too. I got a little spoiled lately landing into good results out of the gate, looking at it, I see I short stroked this one.
This was my initial test using a 22” .223 Wylde barrel at .030 off the lands. This was last year and haven’t tried closer to the lands yet. I was using 8208XBR.
Id pick 23.2 and try some seating depth. Thats a great little node.
Thanks for the info, bought a box of 100 to try. FWIW i had more success with me 175 RDFs farther out (.060) than close. If you ever use then again keep that in mind if closer doesn't do it
My current 223 load
* LC (mixed years), JAG 5.56 and Starline 5.56 brass
* 25.3gr TAC
* 69gr SMK @ 2.255 COAL
* Fiocchi Lead Free Small Rifle Primer
Out of 3 different semi's (all 5.56 or 223 Wylde 16 and 18") this load averages around 2850 MV with an SD of 13.2. Everything in this range of powder charge seems to do well for me, from 25.1 to 25.8. At the higher end of that range SD's came down to single digits IIRC but the brass was starting to get a little beat up.
I can't find a 25.3 target but attached is one with the 25.1 load fired out of my Savage MSR15 Recon.
* LC (mixed years), JAG 5.56 and Starline 5.56 brass
* 25.3gr TAC
* 69gr SMK @ 2.255 COAL
* Fiocchi Lead Free Small Rifle Primer
Out of 3 different semi's (all 5.56 or 223 Wylde 16 and 18") this load averages around 2850 MV with an SD of 13.2. Everything in this range of powder charge seems to do well for me, from 25.1 to 25.8. At the higher end of that range SD's came down to single digits IIRC but the brass was starting to get a little beat up.
I can't find a 25.3 target but attached is one with the 25.1 load fired out of my Savage MSR15 Recon.
Attachments
Ok, this is what confuses me the most about interpreting OCW results. On your VARGET OCW, can you please explain the reasoning behind why you chose 24.7 Varget as the middle of the node? Also When looking at your 4895 OCW, you did in this case choose the middle of the two smallest groups. I'm totally baffled as to how you picked the node based on those pics. I'd really appreciate an explanation of how you do this and why? I've read Dan Newberry's OCW webpage explanation and it's still not making complete sense to me.
One follow up Question - I assume you are shooting those 3 shot strings in the round robin format as described in Dan's OCW method? Thanks in advance.
I do mine with chrono 1 shot each at 1/10th increments starting at lowest to highest charge. Once I do that normally I find 3 nodes ,low,medium and high then I load the medium charge at 1/10th lower and 1/10th higher and same on high node 5 shots each. Then I find best 5 shot grouping/node in medium and high and reload those 2 charges medium and high go back and find which one I like and load that one up. All though I use to use Varget as well I find H4895 to be as good if not better in my bolt rifle. That's must method all though. Then I start loading bullets 05 thousands off the land working my way back to the best group then and turning necks as well. Just my method.
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Shot this the other day with the sun coming right down the middle of the scope. Standing behind the rifle magazine out start the clock drop to prone load the mag and fire total time was 1 min. That sun was rough the target was in the shade. But I had fun and I know that a lot of other people can do better but this one was one of my better ones.
Attachments
88 Grain Hornady ELDM
25.0 Grains Varget. Works well with 8208XBR as well.
Federal Match Primer
Brass IVI
OAL 2.580"
Barrel 26 inch 1/7 Bartlien
2800 FPS with FLR Brass, (2900 FPS with FF Neck Resized Brass, plus another 1/2 grain powder)
Accuracy 1/2 MOA.
New Manson reamer arrived last week, new 27" barrel on the way. Next will seat 88s to 2.624" OAL, just forward of donut.
This will have a tight neck chamber at 0.248", so brass will be turned. Trying to get a solid 1/4 MOA out of it.
I'm not after more speed, but it will lower pressures a bit.
25.0 Grains Varget. Works well with 8208XBR as well.
Federal Match Primer
Brass IVI
OAL 2.580"
Barrel 26 inch 1/7 Bartlien
2800 FPS with FLR Brass, (2900 FPS with FF Neck Resized Brass, plus another 1/2 grain powder)
Accuracy 1/2 MOA.
New Manson reamer arrived last week, new 27" barrel on the way. Next will seat 88s to 2.624" OAL, just forward of donut.
This will have a tight neck chamber at 0.248", so brass will be turned. Trying to get a solid 1/4 MOA out of it.
I'm not after more speed, but it will lower pressures a bit.
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I am in the middle of load dev with Shooters World Match and the 77SMK. Would you mind sharing your charge weight and COAL? I followed the book and went as far as .2 over max charge weight and am not getting great velocity. Using Lapua brass and a BR4 primer. Thanks!
I was using LC brass, BR 4 primers, 25.0 grains of match, 77 grain Nosler CC with 2.250” oacl. I don’t know the case capacity differences between brass, so please start low and work up.
this combo shoots sub MOA out of my LaRue PredatOBR with 18” barrel and works on steel OT to 600 yards.
Everything on budget and available in Canada here, Mossberg MVP Predator 1:9, 18.5" -- a land far far away that I won't even try to kiss.
CCI small rifle primer
55.1Gr CamPro FMJ SBT ( 500pk, weight sorted, 55Gr ) : CFE 223 @ 26.2Gr, crimped at beginning of cannelure in order to maximize the COL
69Gr SIE HPBT : CFE 223 @ 25.1Gr, COL=2.260
BL-C(2) and N140 in progress, PPU 69Gr, SIE 77&80Gr HPBT in queue.
CCI small rifle primer
55.1Gr CamPro FMJ SBT ( 500pk, weight sorted, 55Gr ) : CFE 223 @ 26.2Gr, crimped at beginning of cannelure in order to maximize the COL
69Gr SIE HPBT : CFE 223 @ 25.1Gr, COL=2.260
BL-C(2) and N140 in progress, PPU 69Gr, SIE 77&80Gr HPBT in queue.
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Anyone have data for a Barnes 62g TSX over Varget (or shooters world precision)? Would be shooting them out of a 16" barrel.
How much freebore do you have with that setup that your running?
Not TSX but close....
62gn TTSX
24.5 gn Varget
CCI 400
Frontier brass
2.650 COAL
AR/ Rock Creek 16" barrel
Don't think I ever chrony'd it but it shoots sub MOA and has killed everything that Ive ever shot with it.
