should also add that my rifle likes the 77smk, but not as much as the 69’s. I ran into pressure way before book max. Had pierced primers at 21.5 gr of AR Comp. Accuracy was ok, but not as good as the 69’s
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.223 - 5.56
- Thread starter Two Shoes
- Start date
Try varget or xbr with those 77
I run a 26 inch Krieger and get 2800 FPS with a mild load behind the 75 ELD.
I don't think anything has changed magazine wise but I ran the 75 Amax in a T3 Sporter which is the sister rifle to the Varmint, just a different stock.
I had to single load the rounds because the factory Tikka mag did not accept the longer ammo. I now have a couple modified mags that someone gave me but have not tried them.
Even for single loading, 88 ELDms are a bit long for a tikka 223 chamber. Also 1/8 twist is marginal for the 88s at that speed. Sure you can shoot them but they wouldn't do as well as the 75ELD-M or the SMK 80. As for the 80 ELD-M, it depends, I load mine at 2.525" which is fine for MDT 10 rnd polymer 223 AICS magazine as well as modified 5 rnds Accurate AICS 223 magazine but most likely wouldn't work with a unmodified tikka mag. That being said, I doubt you could load 80 ELDm at 2.525 and fit the generally tight tikka chambers.
Long story short, I doubt you'd benefit much using those 80/88 ELDm as opposed to the 73/75 ELD-m or the 80 SMK but that's just speculation. The 88 is out for sure, the 80 is generally picky so it might or might not work for you. Try it, but I bet you'll save time and money going with the 80 SMK over varget, much easier to tune your load.
Long story short, I doubt you'd benefit much using those 80/88 ELDm as opposed to the 73/75 ELD-m or the 80 SMK but that's just speculation. The 88 is out for sure, the 80 is generally picky so it might or might not work for you. Try it, but I bet you'll save time and money going with the 80 SMK over varget, much easier to tune your load.
This is above book value but I run roughly 2875 FPS with 23.5 XBR, 75 ELDm on a SAC 223 22.5" barrel. 1/2 or better at 100 and gets me to 1000yards supersonic. Can't complain.
I also do 2875 with 24.8 varget and 80 SMK/80 ELD-M. The 80 SMK is way more accurate at short distance but the 80ELDm is better past 800yards.
I run the 75gr EDLM in my Tikka Varmint over H4895 in Nammo brass. I get 3005-3025 fps suppressed. I have some of the 80 gr ELDM, but I haven' tried them. I am using the MDT AICS magazines and loading them 2.49" COAL. It shots everything good so far, 53gr V-Max, 65gr SGK, 69gr SMK, 77gr SMK. The coyote below took a 65gr SGK in the chest at 250 yards.
I did even real
I didnt even realize the 75gr eld's claimed BC is a touch higher than that of the 80gr SMK. I guess would only make sense to shoot the 80 if it shot better accuracy wise.
Yup. The 75 Eld-m is a great bullet for your typical 1:8 twist 223 bolt gun. In my experience it’s a bit easier to tune than the 80 eldm. The 80 SMK is spooky accurate but doesn’t have as good ballistics.
Sierra bullets vs Hornady bullets.
I will take Sierra in any caliber everyday of the week.
Yes I still have Hornady bullets and some store bought Hornady ammo as well.
BC numbers are just a reference and don't reflect true accuracy worth a shit in my guns.
Guns with short magazine length will see this a lot in my estimation.
IMHO
I will take Sierra in any caliber everyday of the week.
Yes I still have Hornady bullets and some store bought Hornady ammo as well.
BC numbers are just a reference and don't reflect true accuracy worth a shit in my guns.
Guns with short magazine length will see this a lot in my estimation.
IMHO
My experience has been that Sierras do seem more consistent in weight, havent checked anything else though. Hornady has nicer meplats but not sure how much that matters.
I have a Tikka T3x Varmint in 223. It's in a MDT chassis and I use their MDT AICS 223 mags with it.
I'm using the Hornady 80gr ELDM bullets. I'm getting 2770fps out if it and it's very accurate for me. I'm using N140 powder.
I'm at about 400 feet above sea level, in case anyone was wondering.
I'm using the Hornady 80gr ELDM bullets. I'm getting 2770fps out if it and it's very accurate for me. I'm using N140 powder.
I'm at about 400 feet above sea level, in case anyone was wondering.
I have decided to ignor:
Looks
Published BC
Company propaganda
In general I have a couple of loads with Hornady bullets that I like.
The rest of my load attempts with Hornady bullets have not went well. Chambers and or magazine length restrictions may be at fault.
Lately I have had better results with a couple of other brands. They have went togeather in 3 steps, gross ocw 3gr, fine ocw 1gr and then seating adjustments.
The fine folks at Berger Bullets took the time to explane the bullet choices for my "problem childs" and life restarted for those guns.
If you have a gun that doesn't like eldm / eldx don't be like me.
Stop trying to force feed it.
I too have struggled to get ELDs to shoot in my Howa .308. In my case magazine length may be at fault also but I sure tried pretty much everything I could, granted I have heard of Howa barrels being picky in some cases. Best groups Ive shot with that gun were 168 FGMM and some handloads with 175gr Nosler Custom Competitions. I know I should move to Bergers but the price is brutal. I may end up going that way though.
Exact same with my sons 308 ruger tactical.
The damn thing was blueprinted around a fgmm round.
Sierra 168 fmj is what they used and cheaper than the Berger's.
That was my test case gun and I wasted a lot of time trying to get eldm / x to work.
Stick to tangent ogive bullets it will shoot.
The damn thing was blueprinted around a fgmm round.
Sierra 168 fmj is what they used and cheaper than the Berger's.
That was my test case gun and I wasted a lot of time trying to get eldm / x to work.
Stick to tangent ogive bullets it will shoot.
Short throats, short magazines and short actions are the root problems with the 223.
If your jam length requires bullets to be seated into the donut, the chamber is too short.
If your mag cannot run cartridges that are long enough to seat bullets ahead of the donut, your mags are too short.
If your action cannot cycle such a round, your action is too short.
Best mags I found are Accurate Mags. The steel ones with a plastic insert. These are best because they can be easily modified by taking the plastic inserts out and milling them internally to suit a longer COAL.
As stated earlier in this thread: I run my 223 with 88 ELDM bullets seated to 2.625 OAL and feed from modded Accurate Mag with no issues. Velocity is 2900 FPS easy with no pressure problems.
Accuracy is 1/2 MOA.
Shot spray paint cans from 750 yards a couple months ago... Cans were on the side so I had to hit the diameter, not the side. Hit the first can with the first shot. Missed the second can and it rolled down the hill. Hit the third can with the first shot.
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Exactly as stated above. The 75 ELD is not made for AR length mags or actions. I load them in my MDT mags which accept up to 2.550” without issue at .020” off the lands in a .223 Wylde chamber and they shoot great. If you have a short issue then try the 73 ELD which were designed for ARs.
Or I could just chose not to run secant ogive bullets.
Same problems are not limited to ar platforms.
If you want to rework your platform to be able to run a certain bullet that's fine.
The option to change bullet types is my choice.
Same problems are not limited to ar platforms.
If you want to rework your platform to be able to run a certain bullet that's fine.
The option to change bullet types is my choice.
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My rifle isn’t set up to run one bullet but set to be able to load to as long as I want. There is a difference. It has a .223 Wylde chamber like many rifles AR and bolt guns alike but isn’t limited to short rounds, which it could shoot also. I can shoot any bullet I want. Secant or tangent ogive bullets.
Also said AR length the mags and actions. I did not say ARs.
Also said AR length the mags and actions. I did not say ARs.
Very happy you have a nice gun.
There are a lot of guns out there that are jealous that need the best available load.
Sometimes it's just a different bullet.
Were I to start from scratch it might end up similar to yours. Or maybe back engineered to chamber like an ar on purpose.
Kind of depends on the end game.
Actually considering getting matched barrels diffrent platform.
Maybe matching chambers would be more accurate description.
There are a lot of guns out there that are jealous that need the best available load.
Sometimes it's just a different bullet.
Were I to start from scratch it might end up similar to yours. Or maybe back engineered to chamber like an ar on purpose.
Kind of depends on the end game.
Actually considering getting matched barrels diffrent platform.
Maybe matching chambers would be more accurate description.
Sometimes it is a different bullet as with any rifle so you don't want to discount any bullet until it's tested. Some .223 rifles are built for the SAAMI spec length but some if in an AICS style stock or chassis can use the longer mags and use longer OAL which opens up many more options just from a magazine change.
Up to this point, I'd been using 73 grain ELD-Ms with 4895 as my 3gun long range ammo.
Accuracy wasn't terrible, roughly 1-1.5 MOA, but I scored a few boxes of 69 grain SMKs recently and wish I'd started with these in the first place.
These are a few of my 10-shot ladder tests:
Accuracy wasn't terrible, roughly 1-1.5 MOA, but I scored a few boxes of 69 grain SMKs recently and wish I'd started with these in the first place.
These are a few of my 10-shot ladder tests:
The load I eventually ended up with was 24.6 grains of 4064 loaded to magazine length, which gave me 2593 FPS (ES 31 / SD 13).
4064 meters like hot garbage, but the load itself is so tolerant, I can bang it out on a progressive and not have to worry about a few tenths swing in either direction.
I tossed a few rounds aside that either had dented cases or didn't pass the gauge. Think I might've even loaded one of them with a pistol primer by accident. Used them as foulers the other day while proofing a couple of Varget loads, and they still shot better than the ones I hand weighed and measured:
Definitely going to be my go-to recipe until I find something better.
4064 meters like hot garbage, but the load itself is so tolerant, I can bang it out on a progressive and not have to worry about a few tenths swing in either direction.
I tossed a few rounds aside that either had dented cases or didn't pass the gauge. Think I might've even loaded one of them with a pistol primer by accident. Used them as foulers the other day while proofing a couple of Varget loads, and they still shot better than the ones I hand weighed and measured:
Definitely going to be my go-to recipe until I find something better.
Anyone have any experience swithcing the Hornady 75gr bthp with the Sierra 77gr on the same powder charge? I found a charge with great ES/SD #s with the 75 but isnt shooting super tight yet, still need to play with seating depth but I want to try the 77. Im sure changing bullets could potentially change everything and am going to test it. Just wondered if anyone had experience with this?
Using 23.1 grains of 8208, I've used the same charge between the Nosler CC, SMK, and the 75 BTHP. Out of an AR, I didn't see a lot of difference in group size as they all shot under an inch out of a quality barrel.
Initially I went up to 25.7gr without any pressure. But found best combination of grouping and SD’s at that 25.2. I had heard that Tac does best around that 25-26 mark and it definitely did for me. I’d say you should be in good shape getting the powder in the case and still fitting in a Pmag.
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I’m relatively new to the 223 game. Put together a bighorn tl3, 26” benchmark mtu 1:8 twist and starting load development tomorrow on 70gr rdf’s around 3100fps range. Did a pressure test/ladder at 300 last weekend and looks to be a node between 3100-3140fps spaced out .6gr’s which provided a vertical of 1.25” at 300 yards. Hoping I can narrow it down tomorrow
Which mag allows the longest COAL and can be used with in Tikka? Probably going with a KRG Bravo or possibly Xray.
Anyone have any experience with the CCI no. 41 military primers? Just scored some off midway but I have never used them before. All I know is they have a harder cup to prevent detonation from a floating firing pin?
Just wondering if anyone has been able to work up a precision load using these.
Just wondering if anyone has been able to work up a precision load using these.
Not 100% sure, but it is hard to fault the MDT polymer .223 mag https://mdttac.com/223-mdt-polymer-aics-magazine/ which allows 2.550". I went with these mags with my Tikka Varmint .223 in the XRS chassis.
^this if going chassis with AI pattern.
waters rifleman and mountain tactical make longer coal mags for factory bottom metal. I’ve not had great luck with mountain tactical.
I use CCI 41s with 55gr Sierra blitz kings over 22.6 grains of Varget in LC brass.…2780fps….
I ran out of CCI small rifle primers, and started using the 41s…using a stock rem700 with 20” barrel, iirc it’s a 1:12 twist and I’m waiting on the throat to burn out before I get a faster twist barrel.
Im trying to figure out if I should go with an AI chassis or something that runs factory mags. I suppose the throat length on the Tikka should also be taken into consideration because if the mag allows more length than the throat its a moot point.
i'm sure you could find a good 77smk or 75gr bullet load to work with 2.25" coal factory mags. 77gr tmk is the best pitch bc wise.
but some bottom metal and mdt mags let you play with "real" bullets and the lengths you can. ~ 2.43" is touching with 3 different tikkas and 75gr eld-ms.
23.5gr xbr
77gr tmk
2.25 coal
cci 400
formidilosus on rokslide recommended it. shoots 5 less then 1" in 3 different rifles.
but some bottom metal and mdt mags let you play with "real" bullets and the lengths you can. ~ 2.43" is touching with 3 different tikkas and 75gr eld-ms.
23.5gr xbr
77gr tmk
2.25 coal
cci 400
formidilosus on rokslide recommended it. shoots 5 less then 1" in 3 different rifles.
I would like to shoot the 75/77 but also have the ability to play with some of the 80+ gr stuff. Do you know what length the AICS allows for?
Seriously? Without modification?
Is that the new metal mag?
The MDT web site says:
- 2.50” max cartridge overall length (COAL)
I run Accurate Mags that will feed up to 2.650" OAL, but I have to modify them to do it. Out of the box unmodified 223 Accurate Mags are only about 2.3 or 2.4 inches.
It would be real nice if there is a good 223 AI pattern mag that can run that or longer without modification.
I'll be chambering another 223 barrel soon to run the 90 grain ATips and I figure the COAL will be around 2.670"
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