.224 Valkyrie

[AMG04]

I have 8lbs of H4895, and use it under 77 smks in 5.56, so I'll give it a try.

I didnt hit pressure, and had plenty of case capacity. I'll trudge one with these powders also until I hit max.

 

[Mtracey]

Happy New Years everyone,

Took my ar out yesterday
26”,1-7t 4 groove Douglas
88 eld-m
Varget 24.0 grn
Hornady once fired brass
F205M primers

Best group 0.54” at 120 yards average velocity at target 2473fps

 

[lash]

Nice group. You must be using a low node, as I get 2750 muzzle with Factory loaded 88s in my 22” rock creek barrel.

 

[Mtracey]

I guess so, using the jbm website I come up with 2660 FPS measured at 10ft

 

[AKGuide]

With that 26” Bbl I would think you could get to 2800 with an 88 using a different powder. H4895 would probably get you to the high node.

 

[Mtracey]

How much h4895 should I try, I had ejector marks at 24.4grn of varget
Thank you

 

[AKGuide]

24.0 should be about max but I would start at 22.6 and move up in 0.2 grain increments. If you hit 24.0 with no pressure signs move up in 0.1 from there. You should be able to hit 2800 with this powder. CFE223, R17, and H414 are others that will get more speed but are not temp stable.

 

[Mtracey]

Thanks for the info

 

[Mtracey]

Which instrument do you use to measure speed?

 

[lash]

A chronograph. I use a magnetospeed.

 

[MasterOfPupets]

Out of a 24" Barrel, I got to 2800fps with 23.6gr of H4895 and an 88ELD

Here is a spreadsheet I made when doing some early testing with H4895 and a few different bullets.

General Info:

24" Faxon 5R 1/6.5T Barrel
Federal Once-Fired brass
CCI BR Primers
All used H4895 powder in the listed charges. All loads have the listed distance from the lands.

Anything highlighted in yellow showed significant pressure signs, green highlights are what I consider my potential loads. Haven't done any development since this.

 

[AKGuide]

Which instrument do you use to measure speed?

I use a magneto speed as well. It doesn’t affect geoup sizes normally but shifts the point of impact.

 

[Mtracey]

Thanks guys, I don’t own a magneto speed or labradar
I do have an Oehler 35p
My shotmarker measure projectile speed at the target.
Thank you all for sharing info , nice spreadsheet!

 

[AKGuide]

The Oehler is a little more tedious to setup but it won’t move your poi. That way you can look for your speed node with your barrel.

 

[IHFarmer07]

Ok, I've been busy with life on top of dicking with the Valkyrie and 85.5 Berger's and I haven't been able to be keeping the forums up to date, so, here I am with an update.
To start off I got my load data from Berger on these bullets and you will see how far I was able to go.
NOTE: This is a Remage Bolt Action Valkyrie, CBI 1-6.5 24" LT Varmint barrel, I know these are hot. Work up your own loads at the low end and go up on your own!
H4895
CCI450
85.5g Berger's
Neck turned Starline brass
Annealed every firing
All velocities taken by a MS V3 on a homemade deal to keep it off the barrel
Charge weights weighed out to the .02gr by a A&D fx120i

This is where I started, when I didn't hit pressure signs with what Berger told me I went above that in .3gr increments and was able to get where I wanted to go which 2900-2930 is where I want to be with these bullets.

Trying to verify my node or flat spot, as you can see, it started here where nothing seems to duplicate what I first got...…

Seeing what kind of accuracy I can get, and once again, what I got first is showing here now again

Settled on a powder charge, and now testing seating depth. I expect velocity changes here so, whatever.

Ok, looking good, still not the velocity I'm looking for but accuracy is capable it appears. Also started to investigate some shit and it turns out I was having the "dreaded doughnut"...….ok so try to remedy that, got a Redding type S-die.....trying different shit to get SOMETHING CONSISTANT to work but nothing is working.

As you can see, the second from last RH side target, it says I sanded the id, which I had some marks in the id caused by the neck turner when I had the doughnuts, so I used 800grit for a bit and then used 0000 steel wool. To my surprise it turned out great except when I used my arbor press with a psi gauge, I could bottom it out so I had to use my coax to seat them and I thought, oh shit this is going to shoot like shit......ha group was ok but the es/sd was awesome!!!!! Tried it again, whelp can't duplicate it...….



Still testing.....pretty good accuracy, not so good es….new Starline brass, was hopeful to find a virgin brass load but.....no

Shot the second left target and thought oh thank GOD!!!!! Tried to duplicate that below...….bloody fucking hell!!! Fell apart, again.....
I'm starting to think that H4895 ain't the be-all powder or something...… hell my 80 eldm loads are hitting 20-40fps lower than they did in the summer, I've seen guys shoot around 25g h4895 and be at 3000fps with the 80's. So it appears my barrel is not a velocity barrel, about toast, or idk, about tired of it not working out!! This cartridge was the first I started to reload and a year later reloading for it I'm baffled, aggravated and so on.....oh and I'm on my 3rd box of 85.5's! Think these are great bullets, just thinking H4895 is not optimal or my barrel freaking sucks. Also when going to the new starline brass, I sized that, neck turned and then resized again all to find a doughnut in those after the fact. How I found this, pin gages, bought a bunch of pin gages and use them to find issues and to set neck tension.

Sure hope my 6.5prc ain't this big of a PIA!! Although I can hit a 2'x2' plate with it WITH FACTORY AMMO at a grand pretty easily!!

 

[Longranger1]

Anyone tried a barrel from Palmetto State?

 

[AKGuide]

IHFarmer07 I am having the same problem with these bullets in my AR. I get a good group then try to duplicate it and it’s a no go. I was using CFE223 to no avail and I will try one more time with imr4320 and that will be it for me.

 

[IHFarmer07]

IHFarmer07 I am having the same problem with these bullets in my AR. I get a good group then try to duplicate it and it’s a no go. I was using CFE223 to no avail and I will try one more time with imr4320 and that will be it for me.

Hate to say this but.....I’m glad I’m not the only one having issues lol.

How fast was you able to get them? I’ve got that powder and many others trying this and trying that but h4895 is the only powder other than AA2520 that I’ve tried, too bad AA2520 was affected by temp change pretty quickly, I think it’s a good powder otherwise.

 

[AKGuide]

Hate to say this but.....I’m glad I’m not the only one having issues lol.

How fast was you able to get them? I’ve got that powder and many others trying this and trying that but h4895 is the only powder other than AA2520 that I’ve tried, too bad AA2520 was affected by temp change pretty quickly, I think it’s a good powder otherwise.

I was able to get them to 2858fps (27.6grains) comfortably in my 24” 6.5 twist Bison Armory. Any more then that and the brass was getting beat up. There was a good node in my setup at 27.2-27.4 both averaged 2845fps. The sd’s were a little higher then I like though. High teens.

 

[IHFarmer07]

I was able to get them to 2858fps (27.6grains) comfortably in my 24” 6.5 twist Bison Armory. Any more then that and the brass was getting beat up. There was a good node in my setup at 27.2-27.4 both averaged 2845fps. The sd’s were a little higher then I like though. High teens.

That’s still moving right along, pretty good in ar15

 

[Mtracey]

Hello, any of you guys have a 88 eld-m handy to measure the overall length of the bullet

 

[RFutch]

Hello, any of you guys have a 88 eld-m handy to measure the overall length of the bullet

JBM - Bullet Length List

www.jbmballistics.com

 

[aone]

Hello, any of you guys have a 88 eld-m handy to measure the overall length of the bullet

1.242

 

[Mtracey]

I shot my rifle (224 Valkyrie with 88 eld-m) this past Sunday
My rifle is ~100fps faster after 120 rounds fired
Is that possible?

 

[Mtracey]

Thanks “aone”

 

[aone]

Thanks “aone”

No problem

 

[AKGuide]

I shot my rifle (224 Valkyrie with 88 eld-m) this past Sunday
My rifle is ~100fps faster after 120 rounds fired
Is that possible?

It is normal for all barrels to speed up once they break in. Looks like you got a good one that gained a bunch of velocity. Only problem is sometimes the accuracy goes south and you have to lower your charge to get back to your node or go up and search for the next one.

 

[Mtracey]

I must have a good one , it grouped in the 0.5 moa with my control load
I’ll post the group tonite
I also tested h4895 but not as good as my varget load

 

[Mtracey]

JBM - Bullet Length List

www.jbmballistics.com

Thank you sir!!

 

[Rocketvapor]

JBM says

0.224

88.0

ELD M (Extremely Low Drag Match)

1.240

0.142

I measured several of the 80 and 88 ELD-M and get between 0.143 and 0.144"
I also get 1.243" for total bullet length.

 

[Mtracey]

Thanks for measuring,
Is the 1.24” the total or do I have to add the 0.144” to the 1.24”

 

[Drvred]

Ok, I've been busy with life on top of dicking with the Valkyrie and 85.5 Berger's and I haven't been able to be keeping the forums up to date, so, here I am with an update.
To start off I got my load data from Berger on these bullets and you will see how far I was able to go.
NOTE: This is a Remage Bolt Action Valkyrie, CBI 1-6.5 24" LT Varmint barrel, I know these are hot. Work up your own loads at the low end and go up on your own!
H4895
CCI450
85.5g Berger's
Neck turned Starline brass
Annealed every firing
All velocities taken by a MS V3 on a homemade deal to keep it off the barrel
Charge weights weighed out to the .02gr by a A&D fx120i
View attachment 7218256
This is where I started, when I didn't hit pressure signs with what Berger told me I went above that in .3gr increments and was able to get where I wanted to go which 2900-2930 is where I want to be with these bullets.
View attachment 7218257
Trying to verify my node or flat spot, as you can see, it started here where nothing seems to duplicate what I first got...…
View attachment 7218258
Seeing what kind of accuracy I can get, and once again, what I got first is showing here now again
View attachment 7218261
Settled on a powder charge, and now testing seating depth. I expect velocity changes here so, whatever.
View attachment 7218264
Ok, looking good, still not the velocity I'm looking for but accuracy is capable it appears. Also started to investigate some shit and it turns out I was having the "dreaded doughnut"...….ok so try to remedy that, got a Redding type S-die.....trying different shit to get SOMETHING CONSISTANT to work but nothing is working.
View attachment 7218271
As you can see, the second from last RH side target, it says I sanded the id, which I had some marks in the id caused by the neck turner when I had the doughnuts, so I used 800grit for a bit and then used 0000 steel wool. To my surprise it turned out great except when I used my arbor press with a psi gauge, I could bottom it out so I had to use my coax to seat them and I thought, oh shit this is going to shoot like shit......ha group was ok but the es/sd was awesome!!!!! Tried it again, whelp can't duplicate it...….
View attachment 7218266

View attachment 7218270
Still testing.....pretty good accuracy, not so good es….new Starline brass, was hopeful to find a virgin brass load but.....no
View attachment 7218269
Shot the second left target and thought oh thank GOD!!!!! Tried to duplicate that below...….bloody fucking hell!!! Fell apart, again.....
I'm starting to think that H4895 ain't the be-all powder or something...… hell my 80 eldm loads are hitting 20-40fps lower than they did in the summer, I've seen guys shoot around 25g h4895 and be at 3000fps with the 80's. So it appears my barrel is not a velocity barrel, about toast, or idk, about tired of it not working out!! This cartridge was the first I started to reload and a year later reloading for it I'm baffled, aggravated and so on.....oh and I'm on my 3rd box of 85.5's! Think these are great bullets, just thinking H4895 is not optimal or my barrel freaking sucks. Also when going to the new starline brass, I sized that, neck turned and then resized again all to find a doughnut in those after the fact. How I found this, pin gages, bought a bunch of pin gages and use them to find issues and to set neck tension.

Sure hope my 6.5prc ain't this big of a PIA!! Although I can hit a 2'x2' plate with it WITH FACTORY AMMO at a grand pretty easily!!

It's normal for velocity to drop with the temperature.
The nice thing about Strelok is that it will adjust your drop with the temp. I was 2998 in the summer, it says if I went out now,(29 degrees) I would be at 2907.

 

[Mtracey]

I posted my first outing with the 88 eld-m and varget
posting # 852

hope for some comment good or bad all welcome!!
my control load has very good vertical!

 

[IHFarmer07]

It's normal for velocity to drop with the temperature.
The nice thing about Strelok is that it will adjust your drop with the temp. I was 2998 in the summer, it says if I went out now,(29 degrees) I would be at 2907.

Ya I guess I was just too optimistic about the powder not changing much, but with that kind of drop in velocity, a person can get out of the node. Guess I’m finding out the hard way on things. Just glad it’s on this small of a cartridge where components aren’t terribly expensive to test the hell out of things lol.
Hopefully different brass makers will be making brass for this thing this year, because it has the potential to be great but like Padom, the .220TB is right around the speeds that would nice to be at with these awesome bullets that are coming out.

 

[Mtracey]

Ok, I've been busy with life on top of dicking with the Valkyrie and 85.5 Berger's and I haven't been able to be keeping the forums up to date, so, here I am with an update.
To start off I got my load data from Berger on these bullets and you will see how far I was able to go.
NOTE: This is a Remage Bolt Action Valkyrie, CBI 1-6.5 24" LT Varmint barrel, I know these are hot. Work up your own loads at the low end and go up on your own!
H4895
CCI450
85.5g Berger's
Neck turned Starline brass
Annealed every firing
All velocities taken by a MS V3 on a homemade deal to keep it off the barrel
Charge weights weighed out to the .02gr by a A&D fx120i
View attachment 7218256
This is where I started, when I didn't hit pressure signs with what Berger told me I went above that in .3gr increments and was able to get where I wanted to go which 2900-2930 is where I want to be with these bullets.
View attachment 7218257
Trying to verify my node or flat spot, as you can see, it started here where nothing seems to duplicate what I first got...…
View attachment 7218258
Seeing what kind of accuracy I can get, and once again, what I got first is showing here now again
View attachment 7218261
Settled on a powder charge, and now testing seating depth. I expect velocity changes here so, whatever.
View attachment 7218264
Ok, looking good, still not the velocity I'm looking for but accuracy is capable it appears. Also started to investigate some shit and it turns out I was having the "dreaded doughnut"...….ok so try to remedy that, got a Redding type S-die.....trying different shit to get SOMETHING CONSISTANT to work but nothing is working.
View attachment 7218271
As you can see, the second from last RH side target, it says I sanded the id, which I had some marks in the id caused by the neck turner when I had the doughnuts, so I used 800grit for a bit and then used 0000 steel wool. To my surprise it turned out great except when I used my arbor press with a psi gauge, I could bottom it out so I had to use my coax to seat them and I thought, oh shit this is going to shoot like shit......ha group was ok but the es/sd was awesome!!!!! Tried it again, whelp can't duplicate it...….
View attachment 7218266

View attachment 7218270
Still testing.....pretty good accuracy, not so good es….new Starline brass, was hopeful to find a virgin brass load but.....no
View attachment 7218269
Shot the second left target and thought oh thank GOD!!!!! Tried to duplicate that below...….bloody fucking hell!!! Fell apart, again.....
I'm starting to think that H4895 ain't the be-all powder or something...… hell my 80 eldm loads are hitting 20-40fps lower than they did in the summer, I've seen guys shoot around 25g h4895 and be at 3000fps with the 80's. So it appears my barrel is not a velocity barrel, about toast, or idk, about tired of it not working out!! This cartridge was the first I started to reload and a year later reloading for it I'm baffled, aggravated and so on.....oh and I'm on my 3rd box of 85.5's! Think these are great bullets, just thinking H4895 is not optimal or my barrel freaking sucks. Also when going to the new starline brass, I sized that, neck turned and then resized again all to find a doughnut in those after the fact. How I found this, pin gages, bought a bunch of pin gages and use them to find issues and to set neck tension.

Sure hope my 6.5prc ain't this big of a PIA!! Although I can hit a 2'x2' plate with it WITH FACTORY AMMO at a grand pretty easily!!

How much of a jump are the 85.5 @1.745” in your chamber,
thanks

 

[IHFarmer07]

How much of a jump are the 85.5 @1.745” in your chamber,
thanks

At 1.745 CBTO that would be .025 off for me and I think that is about as close to the lands as I will go as the boat tail ends up in the neck a fair amount.

I’m shooting these at 1.710 which would make it .060 off with the 85.5 Berger’s.



This is what it looks like at 1.745 cbto



1.710 cbto


Huh, I thought the boat tail was in farther.......might have to go back to the drawing board......but I’ve been getting good accuracy at this cbto....idk

 

[Mtracey]

Thanks for the info
i will test on Sunday and post my findings.

 

[IHFarmer07]

Thanks for the info
i will test on Sunday and post my findings.

No problem
If your loading to my loads be careful with the powder charges that I went up too......I’ve been told else where that I’m way high but it is NOT blowing primer pockets so just be careful. I’ll be looking out for your findings......I’m going to test some other powder I guess.....got a 1lb of re16 last night so idk we'll see.....
Good luck on your voyage lol

 

[Mtracey]

I will only try varget to find seating depth

 

[Mtracey]

I tried h4895 but had ejector marks at 23.6grn with the 88eld-m, groups and velocity were not any better than my varget control load.
i will create a control load with these Berger 85.5 grn

 

[IHFarmer07]

Ya, I’m going to go back and do some old loads that looked promising with varget and maybe re15 with 80 eldm.
I also loaded some with varget and re16 to try with the Berger’s.

Had an old feller that is knowledgeable on reloading and gun smithing tell me the other day that maybe I’m pushing it too hard and it’s just not setting good. Or I have a barrel that is not the best.....idk

 

[AKGuide]

Looks like CFE223 is not going to work with the 90 RMR bullets in my barrel. Similar groups compared to the 85.5 Berger’s using it. Got a decent node above 2700fps but the groups wouldn’t hold up even with adjusting CBTO. I tried scrubbing the barrel to see if that was the problem. Got a little copper out but not as much as I was expecting. Going to try imr4320 tomorrow as this worked well with the 88 eld-m’s.

 

[IHFarmer07]

Played around on quick load last night for the 80eldm and imr4895 looked really good with my specs, BL-C2 tops them all.

Did an H2O measurement on 5PCs of sized and trimmed fire formed brass(not sure that it is right to measure sized brass but) took an average of those(31.176gr H2o), COAL of 2.282 with the 80eldm. At a trim length of 1.590”, there is less performance out of the bullet, so I think I’m going to try and go to 1.600” trim length to squeeze a little more performance out of it.

Example: with a 24” tube, 80eldm, coal of 2.282, 31.176g H2O, trim length of 1.590, 26.5gr BL-C2= 2919fps at 54,957psi. All that data but using a trim length of 1.600 netted me 2923fps and 55,386psi

This stuff is freaking cool!

There’s no 85.5gr Berger’s in the bullet line up.

 

[Triple D]

BL-C2 is crap for filling cases.

If running the 80’s, stick to H4895. In a 24” barrel, you’ll be able to hit 2950+fps, but you’ll be over book max. Most are hitting that speed above 24.7grs and below 25.2, as that’s when pressure gets too high for a lot of ppl.

 

[IHFarmer07]

BL-C2 is crap for filling cases.

If running the 80’s, stick to H4895. In a 24” barrel, you’ll be able to hit 2950+fps, but you’ll be over book max. Most are hitting that speed above 24.7grs and below 25.2, as that’s when pressure gets too high for a lot of ppl.

Good to know.....I was just playing around with quickload......wish Berger’s 85.5’s were there but can’t have it all.

 

[Randy_Lahey]

Ok, looking good, still not the velocity I'm looking for but accuracy is capable it appears. Also started to investigate some shit and it turns out I was having the "dreaded doughnut"...….ok so try to remedy that, got a Redding type S-die.....trying different shit to get SOMETHING CONSISTANT to work but nothing is working.

Pardon my ignorance, but what is the "dreaded doughnut"????

Anyone tried a barrel from Palmetto State?

I have 2 of the PSA 1/7 twist barrels and one of the PSA 1/6.5 twist barrels. Accuracy is near 1-1.5 MOA with Factory Federal TMJ. Not great with Factory Hornady match 88g ELD-M. I'm working on home loads and found some ok accuracy with 75gr ELD-M but they are very sensitive to seating depth, overly so for my liking. Only a 5 thousandths window for near 1 MOA. 88gr ELD-M showed some promise, but then I worked on other things over the year and never got back to them. I've loaded up several new batches of 88's to test when weather permits. My PSA 6.5 Creedmoor shoots Factory 140gr Hornady ELD-M at .75 MOA and home loads replicating that ammo are about the same. That barrel is MUCH easier to get accurate loads for vs Valkarie in my experience. Valkarie is still a fun shooter though, and have 2 more people at the range that bought PSA 1/6.5 barrel/bcg combos and they are happy with them. Will shoot near MOA, but getting bug holes doesn't seem to be this barrel's forte. Fun shooting steel out to 400yards which is our max at our range. We have a 4" and 6" round plate at 400 and is fun to his consistently with the Valkarie.

 

[IHFarmer07]

Pardon my ignorance, but what is the "dreaded doughnut"????

lol its ok......I didn’t know about it before I researched it.....but it is when there is a build up of brass that forms at the neck/shoulder junction. A person can feel it when seating a bullet but where I can really feel it is when I come back with a mandrel to set the final neck tension/size....it feels like a 2-step stoppage, you will feel the first initial sizing but thin after a bit there will be a feeling of another step.....that is the doughnut. It should be one stoppage, smooth and nothing but one.

How I find this is with pin gages that can be found on amazon......look up pin gages on amazon and you will find them. What size I use is -.2215, depends on what final sizing I want, I bought a bunch for this and final sizing. They have a minus and a plus side of them and will be different sizes very slightly. Hope that helps.


I have 2 of the PSA 1/7 twist barrels and one of the PSA 1/6.5 twist barrels. Accuracy is near 1-1.5 MOA with Factory Federal TMJ. Not great with Factory Hornady match 88g ELD-M. I'm working on home loads and found some ok accuracy with 75gr ELD-M but they are very sensitive to seating depth, overly so for my liking. Only a 5 thousandths window for near 1 MOA. 88gr ELD-M showed some promise, but then I worked on other things over the year and never got back to them. I've loaded up several new batches of 88's to test when weather permits. My PSA 6.5 Creedmoor shoots Factory 140gr Hornady ELD-M at .75 MOA and home loads replicating that ammo are about the same. That barrel is MUCH easier to get accurate loads for vs Valkarie in my experience. Valkarie is still a fun shooter though, and have 2 more people at the range that bought PSA 1/6.5 barrel/bcg combos and they are happy with them. Will shoot near MOA, but getting bug holes doesn't seem to be this barrel's forte. Fun shooting steel out to 400yards which is our max at our range. We have a 4" and 6" round plate at 400 and is fun to his consistently with the Valkarie.

 

[Mtracey]

Well this is the best group that could manage at 100 yards

 

[IHFarmer07]

Well this is the best group that could manage at 100 yards

Damn that #4 shot......would’ve been great if it wasn’t for that shot. Was it pulled? Different velocity?

 

[Mtracey]

It could have been me, what I did notice was that my scs was slamming hard and bottoming out, like I’m getting double recoil, I’ll have to look at each shot speed again when I get home later this week, this weekend I’ll shoot my 88 eld-m control load to see if they are still accurate/speed, my barrel is definitely faster now than 260 firings before but so far the 88 are faster than the 85.5 with same load of varget.