.224 Valkyrie

#1,301
700-800 is where I personally feel confident as well. Took my 20" LMT to Thunder Valley a few years ago and hammered everything inside 1000. That jump from 800 to 1k, for me, was humbling. Went 3/10. I was 6/10 with my 6.5 RPR and it was my first time ever shooting past 300. The Valk is something I'm fond of. Just ordered 5lbs of CFE and 500 88gr elds which will be my first venture into reloading. Gonna try to make a suped up version of the factory ammo I used.
 
#1,303
I read most of the first half of the thread and skimmed the last 10-12 pages. I saw where Padom was having luck with CFE and found some in stock. With the state of the world I figured I'd give it a whirl. I can always try out some 80's or 85's if these don't produce decent results. Then again being a new reloader, I may not realize how badly I'm fucking up and blame the load.
 
#1,304
You should be able to find a nice load using those components. The 88’s are very forgiving and shoot well from 0.090”-0.035” off the lands. With your 20” barrel I’m guessing you should find a node around 2700-2750 and be on the top end of pressure as well.
 
#1,306
Took the advice of someone on here and had a special reamer cut so I could seat the 90grn Sierra out of the case to take advantage of case capacity. First time out today. This was the second 5 shot group down the barrel. Powder was BLC-2. Primer was 450. Brass was Starline. No data on velocity yet. Length was 1.865 BTO. OAL 2.375 with the Sierras. Group without measurements was with 90Grn A-Tips. Looks like I may have a shooter on my hands!
 
#1,308
Just wondering if any one is running the 88 ELDs with 26.1-26.3 grs of CFE-223?

I had pretty good groups with the 88 ELDs and 26.1 grs of H4350. But would like more velocity for a flatter trajectory.

I know using CFE will yield more velocity, but looking for suggestions. I am less concerned about 100 yard performance, and would like to optimize it for 900-1100 yards in challenging wind conditions.

My Valkyrie is a gas gun with a 18” barrel.
 
#1,309
I had good success with cfe223 and 88’s a while back. I switched to h4895 for a more temperature stable powder. Be careful if you load up near the top in cold weather, you’ll need to decrease you’re charge in high temps. Otherwise, it should work just fine. I do think you are going to struggle at that distance no matter what your combo is with an 18” barrel.
 
#1,311
I found CFE got quirky with heavier bullets. The accuracy nodes just shrank, making the accuracy of the powder charges extremely critical to accuracy down range. CFE will work, but I often saw weird flyers as I went up in bullet weight with that powder. Maybe it was just me, or a bad batch of bullets(?), but I moved to 4895 and saw the quirkiness of unexplained flyers disappear.

I use my Valk for prairie dogs, so dropping powder from a Harrell's powder measure is a priority....

JMTCW...
 
#1,313
My velocity measurements with the BLC-2 and the 90grn A-Tips was 2800+ with an SD of 8.6. I am running a 26” Bartlein and have an extended throat reamer to allow for the seating of the heavies out of the case. The difference in loading varies a lot with very small increases or decreases in powder. I realize that BLC-2 is not
One of the temp stable powders. Theses reading were taken via Magnetospeed @ an indoor range with the temp at 70 deg. I don’t believe the load would be viable at summer temps of 80deg plus, as it was a pretty stiff load. I will be backing down the powder charges to keep from loosing brass and perhaps more with high summer temps. But with longer barrels and added length reamers, higher velocities can be achieved with the heavies.
 
#1,314
Honestly, I don't remember. I settled on using 77gr TGK's over 27gr's of CFE. Not the best accuracy, but good enough for PD's out past 500yds. CFE was just easier to run through a Harrell's.
 
#1,315
I had good luck with CFE and 80 gr projectiles. Just harder to find Berger bullets these days and I was able to get a bunch of the 88gr ELDs.

I saw on a previous page some had recommended 24.1 grs of H4895. So may do a quick test, just to see how it compares.

I did some testing with the 77gr TMKs on my .223 Wylde rifle. Tried to copy the black hills cartridge using TAC powder and that was good for 1000 yards.

But with the Valkyrie I found the 77 TMKs needed to be seated about .030” shorter in my rifle. A COAL of 2.230” only had .012” of jump.
 
#1,316
I'm shooting 23.1 gr h4895 but that's a 26" barrel. Great for prairie dogs. Also getting me some crazy accuracy.

I've played with all the typical loads and am considering trying the RMR 69gr bullets with TAC or something. Could be a cheap 400 and in load. Also considering some PVA solids. I've fallen in love with this cartridge again after suppressing it. it's just so easy and fun to shoot... once you get your load.
 
#1,317
Okay, now you have my attention. I'm sitting on a few thousand of those bullets. I just never got around to doing anything with them (originally intended for AR fodder).
 
#1,319
Is that to say you think Federal brass is better or you just don’t give a crap if the federal pickets give up after 2 loadings?

I’ve got Starline, Hornady, & federal. I haven’t loaded any of the federal yet. I need to measure case capacity for the 3 when I get home.
 
#1,321
I’ve had trouble finding the Federal brass for quite some time. I’ve had great success with federal brass and have gotten at least 5 loadings with it before of few pockets dropped out.
 
#1,323
Steve, did you try charge weights above 26.0, or did you stop there. What distances do you typically shoot at, have you been getting consistent results.

I have been using mostly Starline brass for the Valkyrie. I was seeing good groups at 100 yards with H4350, but less consistency at 1000 yards.

Seeing the opposite with CFE, bigger group at 100 yards, but better results at 1000 yards in similar wind conditions. So I attributed that to the additional 100 fps.

Don’t know if that is entirely correct, because using the JBM tool, it shows maybe a 7” difference in a 10 mph wind. But my impacts seem more consistent, and I can get on target faster.

It could be that the slower rounds are starting to go transonic at Mach 1.1. So that might be part of what I am seeing.

I may try higher charge weights with H4350 to see if the additional velocity changes my results at 1000 yards.

It might not be that higher velocity itself is magic, just that I need to avoid going transonic to obtain better bullet stability.
 
#1,324
I have only shot this load out to 600 yards but it is a consistent 1/2 minute load out to 600. I went up to 26.5 gr with no over pressure signs but velocity started to get erratic. At 26 gr I have single digit SD over 10 shots. 10 shot groups at 200 yards average 1.12”. I am amazed at this load and barrel. It also shoots the factory 80.5 gr federal ammo very good. Hopefully some day soon I can shoot it out past 1000 and see what it does at longer ranges.
 
#1,325
Follow up on case capacity.

* Fed 1 x, length 1.590, Dry 117.5/Wet 149.9 = 32.4
Hornady 2 x, length 1.583, Dry 122.8/Wet 154.0 = 31.2
Starline Virgin, length 1.5905, Dry 119.6/Wet 150.5 = 30.9
#1 Starline 1 x, length 1.5905, Dry 118.9/Wet 150.8 = 31.9
#2 Starline 1 x, length 1.590, Dry 119.1/Wet 150.9 = 31.8
 
#1,328
Yes go back 1 page #1295. I tried like 7 different projectiles with Lever & got very good speed from an 18" barrel.

Lack of brass for the Valk sucks. Starline is pretty good but I only have 100 & Who the hell knows when they'll make more???

Out of Brass Poor's desperation I tried something. Measuring now & will report back shortly.
 
#1,331
I don't have a good comparison. Shot 77 SMK about .750" @100 with 6.5 Staball @ 2850. That was about max for speed with Staball.
With Lever I was getting .6" groups @ 100 with 77 TMK @ 2950.
85 RDF's shot well, 3/4 moa.

Accept as noted all below are with Lever.

Just tried 80 ELD's with less jump (.035-.045) & they shot better 3/4" ish, but speed was off cause I used Federal brass for the jump test 2835 vs 2930 with Hornady brass.

Shot some solids 78 gr MTH cutting edge. They sucked ass.

10 x 60 V-max @ 2.190 with 26.5 8208XBR went into 1" @ 3231

77 RDF are Lasers @2940 with 27.3 Lever. Shot .8" G7 is .228, a tick better than Berger's 80.5 @ G7 .224

Gave the 85.5's one last try hanging out at 2.342 & 2775. Fuck them. They suck in my gun. Repeated their best previous of 1.2" with the same double group 3 & 2.

Also got my hands on 1500 of the 80.5 Berger's. They're going to be good. Without any load development they were under an inch @ 2880 with 27gr Lever.

The down side with Lever is temp instability.
I can deal with the temp issue, but the brass is pissing me off. Each with a different capacity & I don't have enough of any one brand so that's 3 more damn things to track.
 
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#1,332
Alright here goes my Poor's attempt to make some Valkyrie brass. Enough at least to standardize on one brand for a bit.

A teaser.
Federal once fired capacity is 32.4 gr
Hornady Twice fired is 31.2 gr
Starline once fired is 31.9 gr
??? Mystery brass 1 x fire formed is 32.7 gr

The bad news is I have to burn components to form this Franken brass.
Left - Right: Unmodified 6mm, Neck down with Redding Type S FL die & .248 bushing, Fire formed, Far right is Starline 224.
Any guesses yet?


I did anneal prior to necking down & trimmed to 1.584 (about .008). After firing they avg 1.593. Did a mock up when setting up the sizer to leave a false shoulder. Just ran the bushing down till they would chamber. The datum/shoulder on these are .018 short of the Valk. Loaded these -.010 from the lands.
Didn't put a chrono on these but I'd guess 2950 ish. Good enough for practice shooting steel off bags. Had about 6 mph wind today, didn't matter & didn't care, @300 held center 8" plate - hit everytime.


I'm new to this fire forming crap, so I made a few mistakes with the first 100, but I'm happy to end up with 98 good fire formed cases. The 2 lost are due to loose primer pockets when I de-capped them. Loads were a we bit hot for fire forming. I've got 400 left to hone my skills.


My mistakes:
  1. To hell with the mandrel, next set I'll just neck with the bushing and seat.
  2. I stepped on these fuckers a little hard for a fire forming load. Next time I'll have more neck tension & back off on powder.
So for a load, my rookie ass used 25gr of 8208 under a 69gr RMR (left the cat litter in the HP).
Have a few thousand of these primers so I figured I'd give them a try. Compared to CCI #41 the Wolf seat a little tighter.


Yeah they were a little hot. Primers on right are from these fire form loads. The 2 on left are from a 224 Starline Lever load & a 6ARC Lever load.
A little extra rounded. So I tested the primer pockets pretty hard & 98 felt good coming out. Another interesting observation is this. The 2 cases that went loose on the pockets stayed at the exact trim length of 1.584, all the others grew to 1.593.


OK you got this far so What the Fuck are they.


This is Important! 24 Nosler Brass requires a Std. .223/5.56 Bolt!!!!

I just swapped my 6.8 bolt for a spare .223, it ran fine. The shoulder length of the fire formed 24 Nosler using the 223 bolt is .002 shorter than Valkyrie brass from the 6.8 bolt.

This would be a pretty good solution for .223 bolt guns that want to screw on a Valkyrie barrel. A 223 Tika with a PVA Valk pre fit would be pretty sweet.

Don't know how well this will hold up, but now that I've got formed cases I'll see how it does with 88 ELD's & Lever. Will update after a few loading's.

I said in the beginning this was a poor's solution. Here's why. The 24 Nosler was such a turd they're blowing the brass out on clearance $99.95 per 250 with free shipping. That's the only reason I gave this a try.

It's probably more practical to just pick up a few cases of the cheap Federal 75 TMJ's for the brass, but it was a fun experiment.
 
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#1,333
Thanks for the info. I am in a similar spot with different kinds of brass, have a bunch of a few different kinds of 223 saved up, have been using LC but am gonna try some Winchester and some Lapua. Dont really want to redo load dev though.
 
#1,334
I have 1000 Berger 80.5 full bores on the way and already have a bunch of varget, 8208, staball, and cfe223. Hoping to get good velocity with varget so I have a stable load for most temps. Anyone with experience with the 80.5s and varget or 8208? Wanting to hit 2800 out of my 20” upper to match the factory federal Berger’s
 
#1,335
I run the 80.5s in mine with N550. 2 loads, one around 26 running 2830 and one around 27.5 running 2960, which is a very warm load. Mine is a bolt gun. You should be able to get 2800 out of your rig fairly easy.
 
#1,336
I did a video a while back with the 80.5 FB. Super accurate in my gun but I think is ideal in a gasser. H4895 did good for me. The ogive sits really far forward so if you've got extra freebore you're either a mile away from your lands or making partial contact with your neck. That's what makes them great for a gas gun that needs to fit mag length.
 
#1,338
I built a 22" gas gun with a wilson combat barrel.

Tried 88s with CFE and I couldn't get it to group worth a damn. I could get good SDs and velocity, but not accuracy. Used a window mag and ran them from 2.23" all the way out to 2.34" COAL, 24.4gr-27gr in .2 increments. Best groups was still over an inch. Started to think I put the gun together wrong or my scope was bad.

Picked up some of the 80.5 bergers and they seem to shoot pretty good. Had some sub MOA groups today finally. 26.1gr and 27.3gr both has good results. 27.3gr was showing some signs of pressure, so pretty much a no go with this temp sensitive powder.

Going to try and load some more up around 26gr and play with some seating depths and neck tension.also get my chrono out and see what kinda of speed I'm getting.

Not going to lie, coming from a 6GT, the 224V has been a PITA to get shooting right. Lol
 
#1,340
I have been working with a bolt version for a cpl months now. It is super accurate, but exceedingly frustrating for any bullets of substance AND speed.

I have now dubbed it the .224 Grendel….
 
#1,341
Yep. I realize that. Just sucks because I really wanted to use the 88s. I am building a 22GT and built the 224V thinking I could buy one bullet for two cartridges, and buy them in bulk pretty cheap. I was easily getting them around 2760-2780 with consistent SDs around 8, but the accuracy was unacceptable.

Ballistically speaking, there is a huge difference between that 80.5gr Berger and the 88gr ELD. But if you can't hit anything with the 88gr ELD, it's a mute talking point.
 
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#1,342
I sectioned 4 different cases with smoked primer pockets to compare.

Left to right with measured water gr capacity of fired cases.

Starline (31.85 gr), Hornady (31.2 gr), 24 Nosler necked down (32.7 gr), Federal (32.4 gr)

Starline & Hornady are a similar design in the bottom and have the least capacity. Nosler & Fed likewise are similar in the bottom with increased capacity.

The Starline is very uniform. The Hornady is the worst with regards to wall thickness uniformity. The Nosler is very uniform & has a clean flash hole. The Federal has a little noticeable wall thickness offset & a gnarly bugger on the inside of the flash hole.



This was my first try at 88's & also shot a few Lever loads. Lever delivers on speed like nothing else, but you give up temp stability. Also Lever doesn't seem to get happy on SD's till you hit about 93%+ case fill & upper end on pressure. At least it doesn't spike near the top like 8208.

I just got 500 new Starline, but since I've already got some fire formed Nosler's
Everything below was shot from necked down 24 Nosler brass with a .223 bolt. All mag fed using Ckye pod & rear squeeze bag.
The extra 1 - 1.5gr in the Nosler allowed me to attempt a H4350 load for the 88's.
26.9 = 2657 with 7.4 SD
27.2 = 2691 with 4.2 SD
27.5 = 2725 with 4.8 SD This was pretty compressed, but I have to stay within (windowed) mag limits of the AR.

27.2 fit comfortably, was best accuracy, & didn't kill the primer pockets. I'll play around with 27.1 - 27.3 + seating depth but this is showing promise. Factory Hornady 88 gives me 2502. Hell yeah I'll take + 190 fps with temp stable powder. Now I need to see how many loads the primer pockets will take?

This is an 18" Gasser with a RL +1" gas system. All were mag fed.
Bottom 3 are the 88 eld H4350 loads.



Sorry for the shitty pics.
Lever loads.
Top left 77 TMK's shot great @ 2868 but SD sucked. Load needs + .5 gr & SD should tighten.

Bottom left 77 RDF's are lasers @2922 G7 .228 again SD should improve with another .2 - .3 gr at around 2950

Bottom right x 2 are 80 eld's that continue to suck.



80.5 Berger's shot well @ 2889. Haven't played with seating depth on these yet.

Top right was first 88 eld load with Lever. Had an oddball flyer that could've been me? This was a low case fill slow load for Lever & SD sucked so I'm leaning towards it being a legit flyer. 2.325 COAL does look like a decent spot for the 88's. They fell apart @ 2.285 coal.


I'm very tempted to order the Craddock signature 22" + 2" Bartlain gain twist.
 
#1,343
I've got about 250, 88 eldms left. When I finish up with some 6.5 testing I'll get the Valk barrel back on and test Win 760, IMR 4350, H4350 and N555.

I'm most curious about N555 because it seems like it's an improved H4350 and it's a little easier to find. With something like the Valk I don't mind spending a little more per pound. It really goes a long way.

So far, it seems to meter better than h4350 and forsure imr 4350 but that's really all I can say.

ETA:
None of these looks amazing for the valkyrie, good news is I've got a long freebore and a bolt gun.. let's see what I can fit lol.
 
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#1,344

I’ll be curious to see your results.
I Love N555 for the 6GT & Creedmoor’s, but it’s pretty bulky. Takes about 1.5 - 2 grains more to equal H4350 speed.

I think N550 would be a better option for the Valk.

27.2 of H4350 will be compressed in a Federal case, but I’d guess you’d hit 2750+ in a bolt gun with the 88’s.
 
#1,346


I am still over here just burning through my primers and powder trying to find a load that works. I seem to be able to get great velocity numbers that are very consistent, but the accuracy is still leaving something to be desired. This is with 80gr ELd and 80.5gr Full Bore bullets.

I have been using cfe223, but I'm about to try something else. Only have 4350 and RL16 though. May be able to pick up a pound of varget or something else to try. Any suggestions?
 
#1,349
Gas. I'm finding the most steady velocity with right around 26gr of CFE223. I have ran them up over 27gr, which will push them up there, but I'd rather stay on the lower end just to be safe in rain and super hot matches, especially with CFE223.

I wouldn't mind buying some 4895 if I can find it. I have seen it come in stock on discord a couple times. I just need to get this damn thing to work. Got too much invested with time and money now. I can tell you a bunch of stuff that doesn't work...

The gun runs great. I have the gas system dialed in and lightweight bolt ect. Very soft and flat shooting, just no accuracy. So frustrating.
 
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