.224 Valkyrie

[NCHillbilly]

I tried them early on, and they shot so-so in my rifle, but I haven't shot any since using the TFF. I imagine if I tried them again, I'd probably have a much better outcome.

Check out semperfireloading here in the hide. He's done extensive testing with a lot of different bullets and powders. Has a lot of good info. He's got some posts at the upper part of this page, with a link to his website, which contains even more info.

 

[simplemank]

I know that, that's my question: where is that for H4895.

I seen pressure at 23.5 g

 

[needham]

I seen pressure at 23.5 g

Thanks!
I kinda guessed that's where it would be, comparing other weight bullets and other forums.
But never loading this particular cartridge I wanted to hear from someone who used H4895.
Thanks again!

 

[AKGuide]

In my 24”Bbl the 88’s loved a 0.035” jump and 2740 for a velocity. I would assume 2700-2725 will be a sweet spot in your rifle with 0.035”-0.090” jump. The 88’s are more jump tolerant then the 80’s. I don’t think you’d be able to push the 80’s to 2940 where my gun likes them so I’d stick with the 88’s.

 

[NCHillbilly]

I've been using Hornady brass exclusively since I started working up loads for my valk, and have a good 80gr eldm load, and a promising 88gr load. Because component availability has become so sketchy, I recently got some starline brass to use. In the good old days, I would just work it up like before, but honestly, I'm trying to budget my primers.

My question is, how does starline compare to hornady brass regarding internal capacity? Should I have to add/subtract powder to be close to what my previous good loads were (i.e. +.2, -.3). Just trying to minimize primer usage. I'm not completely out, but supply ain't great at the moment.

 

[lash]

I've been using Hornady brass exclusively since I started working up loads for my valk, and have a good 80gr eldm load, and a promising 88gr load. Because component availability has become so sketchy, I recently got some starline brass to use. In the good old days, I would just work it up like before, but honestly, I'm trying to budget my primers.

My question is, how does starline compare to hornady brass regarding internal capacity? Should I have to add/subtract powder to be close to what my previous good loads were (i.e. +.2, -.3). Just trying to minimize primer usage. I'm not completely out, but supply ain't great at the moment.

If you have any empty Hornady brass left, do a water capacitor test.

“I use this method to determine H2O capacity:

Syringe with a 18-22ga needle, preferable long enough to reach the case bottom. I use the stylet needle from an 18 ga. V catheter.

Water with approx. 5-10% Isopropyl alcohol (Used to reduce surface tension of the water, % NOT critical....odes not take much alcohol)

I insert a spent primer into the pocket. One company, PMA or 21st Century?

makes a pocket plugger although I have not used one

Weigh the plugged case dry. Fill with water/alcohol by inserting needle to bottom of case and fill with needle submerged to avoid bubbles. Fill until the water reaches the case mouth. Observe the meniscus (convex or concave 'dome'. If it is convex you can pull a minute amount of water out with the syringe; if it is concave add drops until the meniscus disappears. When looking down on the water meniscus with some overhead light you will see a reflection in the water in the center of the meniscus. When the water is flush with the case mouth the reflection will disappear. It only takes a couple of minutes to practice this and see this effect. Once you have the case full then weigh it again and subtract the dry weight and you have your water capacity. With very little practice you can get the total process down to a minute and a half per case.”
- credit - rardoin of 65Creedmoor dot cam

 

[Rocketvapor]

Spent primer upside down.
A couple drops of dish soap will cut surface tension.
Fill to convex meniscus, blend off excess with tip of tissue.

 

[semperfireloading]

Hello. I will be shooting and testing more Valk over holidays. Specifically, 80.5 berger full bore, which I believe is the most accurate bullet I tested so far in Valk, and I think I tested everything available on the market at this point. After I got a good barrel, basically, I routinely shoot sub MOA from probably 50+ different loads. Here is dozens of loads at 100 and 200 yards, using ELDM, SMK, you name it.

Rainier Ultramatch Mod2 Review

Rainier Ultramatch Mod2 Valkyrie

natoreloading.com

Best group I ever shot at 200 yards, is with 26.5 grains of Reloader 16, and Berger 80.5 Full bore. Not even high pressure.
200 yard target

So far, best powders I found for Valk is
Reloader 16
W748
H4895
Shooters World Precision Rifle
8208 XBR

All those have had really solid groups. Reloader 16, that group is around .3MOA at 200 yards. Thats pretty top tier from an AR platform and not bolt gun. From a $250 barrel? incredible. Having 50x magnification Trijicon Accupower scope helps, but still...

on the H4895. I shot, as you can see, 25 grains+ using 80 grain bullet. Didnt blow primers, but was stamping the brass good, 1 and done. Pressure starts to show up around 23.5 grains, but I think the best loads with ELD 80 is going to be in the 24+ area. High velocity and near 1/2 MOA. H4895 is surely a top tier powder for Valk. If that is all I could get, I would be happy.

 

[RALA]

My 224 Valkyrie is a bolt gun built on a Remington 700 SA receiver, 22" barrel with 1/8 twist. 75 Gr Sierra over 23gr BL-C ( 2)=2700 fps is .5 MOA out to 300 yards. 80 and 88 gr Hornadys shoot better over H4350 <> 2600 FPS. I'm having trouble keeping the SD under 16 with the heavier bullets.. I'm going to start over with new brass and make use of my friends annealer.

 

[SilencedShooter11B]

My 224 Valkyrie is a bolt gun built on a Remington 700 SA receiver, 22" barrel with 1/8 twist. 75 Gr Sierra over 23gr BL-C ( 2)=2700 fps is .5 MOA out to 300 yards. 80 and 88 gr Hornadys shoot better over H4350 <> 2600 FPS. I'm having trouble keeping the SD under 16 with the heavier bullets.. I'm going to start over with new brass and make use of my friends annealer.

75gr Hornady or 77gr Sierra?

either way that seems slow for a 22” barrel and a bolt gun

unless you don’t have any other powders, there are better ones for the Valkyrie and the bullets you’re using

 

[RALA]

My mistake, They are 77Gr Sierra TMK. I'm ok with the speed. It's seems to be what the rifle likes. I'm just putting holes in paper or scuffing paint on steel. Not worried about terminal effectiveness.

 

[Jackomason]

anybody have a place that they can find 88 eldms in stock? for some reason going into this whole shortage i thought those would be the last to go...

 

[TKellogg]

anybody have a place that they can find 88 eldms in stock? for some reason going into this whole shortage i thought those would be the last to go...

How many you looking for? A store my me has some

 

[Raffica762]

Keep them coming.. Im digging the .224 valkyrie

 

[DacianMH]

Keep them coming.. Im digging the .224 valkyrie

I’m very happy with it especially in bolt action form. 85.5gr Berger Hybrids, 80gr Berger Fullbore, and 90gr SMK’s have all shot exceptionally well except the ELD-M’s of all weights have been difficult. I think annealing every time after sizing has helped.

 

[AZgeek]

Finally go out yesterday to continue my testing with CFE223 & the 80.5's. Looks like 26.9gr of this powder is the winner. But that's .2 gr over max per Hodgdon.

 

[MarinePMI]

Everything is over max per Hodgdon when in a bolt gun. Their data is so conservative, it's almost useless.

 

[RFutch]

I'm 3 gr over Hodgdon max. Yes I said 3 not .3. Let you chamber tell you what max is.

 

[DacianMH]

Finally go out yesterday to continue my testing with CFE223 & the 80.5's. Looks like 26.9gr of this powder is the winner. But that's .2 gr over max per Hodgdon.

26.6gr is what got me my best.

 

[AZgeek]

26.6gr is what got me my best.

Should have stated mine is a gas gun. 26.6 is also an excellent load. Sadly, I'm just not that good of a shot. Damn impressive DacianMH!

 

[ghuff]

Has anyone tried using superformance powder? I have some 60gr bullets I wanna use for varmint hunting. Not much for load data out there using this combo. Any help would be greatly appreciated. Thanks

 

[DacianMH]

Finally go out yesterday to continue my testing with CFE223 & the 80.5's. Looks like 26.9gr of this powder is the winner. But that's .2 gr over max per Hodgdon.

26.6gr is what got me my best.

Everything is over max per Hodgdon when in a bolt gun. Their data is so conservative, it's almost useless.

I haven’t tried going over max, afraid the primer pockets will get loose too prematurely. How is brass holding up for you at the above max loads?

 

[DacianMH]

Should have stated mine is a gas gun. 26.6 is also an excellent load. Sadly, I'm just not that good of a shot. Damn impressive DacianMH!

I have to say, 224V has been the most finicky though. Some days it wants to cooperate others it doesn’t. Today I went shooting my 85.5gr Berger Hybrid load with 27.5gr of StaBall 6.5 with a Coal of 2.375” which is normally a 1 hole group at 100y but today it opened up to about 1” to 1.5” roughly.

 

[MarinePMI]

26.6gr is what got me my best.

I haven’t tried going over max, afraid the primer pockets will get loose too prematurely. How is brass holding up for you at the above max loads?

No real problems as of yet...seems to be holding up well.

 

[AZgeek]

Loaded up 25 rounds @ 26.9gr and [email protected] of CFE 223 using some once-fired Federal crap. If these loads prove out to be the ticket in my gas gun, I'll take some new Starline and see how many reloads I can get. Plenty of extra case capacity but don't want to push it further. I have the gas system perfectly tuned which helps.

Quit my job two weeks ago. So after Friday, cleared for nothing but shooting for the next couple of weeks. Just in time for spring weather to wrap up Valkyrie testing and complete new 6.5 Grendel load development.

 

[MarinePMI]

27grs of CFE223 is my go to PD load with 77gr TMK's. A devastating combination. Had a "quigley" of two PD's at 250yds, first one disintegrated, the second got tossed 10ft off the mound. You could see the "shadow" of the second one, in the spray pattern of what was left of the first one. Pretty eye opening....

ETA: This was with a Bartlein LH GT barrel...

 

[AZgeek]

This last time out, I was shooting in a direct 90 degree crosswind sustained at about 13 mph with burst up to 16. Not the best of conditions. The group sizes were at least a third smaller with the 26.9 grain load vs the 26.6 at 217 yards! That's a pretty significant benefit.

 

[AZgeek]

Some data points and observations to share:

The Berger 80.5's using 26.9 -27.0 grains of CFE223 appears to be safe using my PSA 20" upper. Note that its perfectly tuned using a SA adjustable gas block. The top, single row of 10 is new, Starline brass loaded at 26.6gr just to establish a visual baseline. The bottom two rows were loaded at 27.0 grins of CFE223 using shit, once-fired Federal factory brass to ensure a worse-case visual result:

Finally got my buddy to show up with his new, fancy 24" 1-7.5 twist Rainer barrel to do some comparisons out of two different guns. Using his gun, with him shooting, I was able to confirm the following:

1. The 80.5 Bergers at 26.6 gr of CFR223 are the most consistently accurate load tested to-date across two gas guns.
2. The 85.5 Bergers at 26.4 or 26.6 produce almost 3x the group size vs. the 80.5's.
3. The 88 ELDM suck in both rifles with groups slightly worse than the Berger 85.5's. Also produced some failure to feed due to what I'm assuming is the ballistic tip.

The groups on the left were shot using the Rainer (after zero) and groups on the right using my PSA while zeroing. Range was just under a 100 yards:

Nothing to write home to mom about but 5 out of 10 shots using the 80.5' sat 27.0 gr shows some real promise (lower right group). 5 of the 10 can be covered with a dime. Only loaded up 10 just for this quick test. Going out again this week (alone, no distractions, no kids, and shoot off a real bench instead of a card table!) to test against 26.6 vs 27.0 grains. I'll also chrono.

 

[DacianMH]

Some data points and observations to share:

The Berger 80.5's using 26.9 -27.0 grains of CFE223 appears to be safe using my PSA 20" upper. Note that its perfectly tuned using a SA adjustable gas block. The top, single row of 10 is new, Starline brass loaded at 26.6gr just to establish a visual baseline. The bottom two rows were loaded at 27.0 grins of CFE223 using shit, once-fired Federal factory brass to ensure a worse-case visual result:

View attachment 7588916


Finally got my buddy to show up with his new, fancy 24" 1-7.5 twist Rainer barrel to do some comparisons out of two different guns. Using his gun, with him shooting, I was able to confirm the following:

1. The 80.5 Bergers at 26.6 gr of CFR223 are the most consistently accurate load tested to-date across two gas guns.
2. The 85.5 Bergers at 26.4 or 26.6 produce almost 3x the group size vs. the 80.5's.
3. The 88 ELDM suck in both rifles with groups slightly worse than the Berger 85.5's. Also produced some failure to feed due to what I'm assuming is the ballistic tip.

The groups on the left were shot using the Rainer (after zero) and groups on the right using my PSA while zeroing. Range was just under a 100 yards:

View attachment 7588922

Nothing to write home to mom about but 5 out of 10 shots using the 80.5' sat 27.0 gr shows some real promise (lower right group). 5 of the 10 can be covered with a dime. Only loaded up 10 just for this quick test. Going out again this week (alone, no distractions, no kids, and shoot off a real bench instead of a card table!) to test against 26.6 vs 27.0 grains. I'll also chrono.

Yup, that’s what I settled on for my bolt gun. 26.6gr at 2.260”, as for the 85.5gr I found they only shoot well loaded at 2.37” with 27.5gr of StaBall 6.5 and actually the federal brass has been the best for me after FL sizing, flash hole deburr, trimming, and ANNEALING EVERY TIME because the FC brass has the highest case capacity letting me run the upper node and higher than the 52k psi of the AR. I push the 85.5gr to 2800 fps from a 22” barrel with no primer pocket issues but that’s also due to the fact the action stays closed after the shot keeping the case rim flush and locked against the bolt face.

 

[AZgeek]

Almost to the point of bagging the AR and moving to a bolt gun.

 

[AZgeek]

I could also try some different powders but not sure if its worth the effort with this caliber in an AR.

 

[Jackomason]

I could also try some different powders but not sure if its worth the effort with this caliber in an AR.

honestly, i really love my bolt gun but the load i settled on wasnt found in one range trip..

 

[AZgeek]

honestly, i really love my bolt gun but the load i settled on wasnt found in one range trip..

I've got more trips to the range then I care to mention! Not throwing in the towel just yet, but definitely nearing the end of this caliber journey. I can't shoot the heavy's out of this barrel and with load development this f'n difficult, probably time to move on.

 

[MarinePMI]

XBR 8208 worked best for me (over the CFE223), but the CFE loads were just easier for PD loading when going through a boat load of ammo, and accurate enough to clobber PDs with ease...

For PD's, using a powder measure is a must, and CFE223 just meters like water through a Harrell's.

 

[AZgeek]

XBR 8208 worked best for me (over the CFE223), but the CFE loads were just easier for PD loading when going through a boat load of ammo, and accurate enough to clobber PDs with ease...

For PD's, using a powder measure is a must, and CFE223 just meters like water through a Harrell's.

Got plenty of xbr 8208. One of my favorites. Can you get close to the same velocities as cfe223?

 

[MarinePMI]

Got plenty of xbr 8208. One of my favorites. Can you get close to the same velocities as cfe223?

Actually, now that I think about it, I misspoke. IIRC, it was H4895 that was the stick powder that seemed to work best.

 

[AZgeek]

Actually, now that I think about it, I misspoke. IIRC, it was H4895 that was the stick powder that seemed to work best.

Got some of that as well. Got a load for an 80 grain bullet? Compressed?

 

[AZgeek]

Spent some time today reading through the first 10 pages of this thread. Reminded me of the movie Dunkirk - a few moments of hope but mostly despair and disappointment.

I think I'll try hand feeding both the 80.5's and 85.5's closer to the lands and see what happens. Seem like that is an accuracy factor based on the read thus far. The 85.5's have a much further jump just by looking at the two sided-by-side.

 

[AZgeek]

Did some reloading today for this next round of testing. As part of this I measured the COAL to the lands for both the Berger 80.5 & 85.5. The 80.5' hit the lands in my gun at 2.267 my current seating depth is 2.255. Only 12 thou to the lands! The 85.5 measured a whopping 2.330! I loaded up about 20 rounds of the 85.5's at 2.315 or 15 thou off. Stay tuned....

 

[Simonsza1]

Did some reloading today for this next round of testing. As part of this I measured the COAL to the lands for both the Berger 80.5 & 85.5. The 80.5' hit the lands in my gun at 2.267 my current seating depth is 2.255. Only 12 thou to the lands! The 85.5 measured a whopping 2.330! I loaded up about 20 rounds of the 85.5's at 2.315 or 15 thou off. Stay tuned....

You need to get farther away. Berger’s like a lot of jump in my experience. Don’t know if I’ve ever had one under .050 that shot great for me. Usually start Berger’s at .060 and find something closer to .080 that’s great. Barnes are the same way from my experience. Barnes like .080 IMO

 

[Jackomason]

cant remember how far off i was but the 80.5 fullbores were only making like 1/2 contact with the neck.. they shot great but i didnt feel great about running them in a long FB bolt gun.

 

[AZgeek]

Ok. Backed off the 85.5's a bit more to just under 2.300. About 2.296-ish. So that's about 35 thou off the lands and they fit in the mag.

 

[Simonsza1]

Ok. Backed off the 85.5's a bit more to just under 2.300. About 2.296-ish. So that's about 35 thou off the lands and they fit in the mag.

Go farther

 

[AZgeek]

Did not get a chance to get to the range but did get out for some quick tests. The Berger 80.5's are by far the best in my gun. Not really shooting for groups yet as the I had to finish the zeroing process and make a quick chrono measurement. Last group was the bottom right

Pretty close, maybe .1 left more. Need to get to the range as this card table is not the best:

Only chrono'd one, five-round group but pretty darn happy with the speed:

The Berger 85.5's - Not so good! 3.75" groups. Not even worth showing. Sticking with the 80.5's and will shoot some groups at the range later this week.

 

[jLorenzo]

Been looking hard at the 224. Torn between an Upper or a bolt gun, leaning towards bolt gun at this point.
What considerations need to made when putting the gun together? I'm wanting to use the Bravo chassis, other than that not sure. Would like to keep the cost down (as much as you can with a semi custom rifle) Possibly an Origin for the action but I don't know much about custom actions. If there was a Tikka with the correct bolt face I would go that way.
Would be nice to be able to change the barrel fairly easily but maybe I don't need to, do I go Remage? Which is the most cost effective barrel to order, would like to just plug and play no reaming or anything on my end. Thinking 22", best combo of maneuverability and velocity.

I'm digging that there is tons of Valk ammo available even though I do reload I like the option of factory ammo, especially the affordable AE 75s. Also the heavy 224 pills seem to be more in stock that the 6-6.5mm stuff. Another benefit for me is the Valk will use less powder.
I would be just shooting on my own mostly and some local matches out to 1,000 with most of the stages being under 8-900.
Barrel life seems like it would be better than something like a 6 creed or 6.5 (but I am still considering both of those creeds)

I like doing as much as I can with smaller calibers but am aware they will not perform as well a 6-6.5mm. I don't mind perfecting wind calls.
I have a .223 SPR and a .308 bolt so the 224 would be a nice medium.

 

[AZgeek]

About to rebuild a 7mm Rem Mag using a factory 700 long action and a new Remage barrel form PBB. Have all the tools. Still have another 30 day wait on the barrel so no feedback yet. I would go with an action that offers bolt head change that flexibility so Origin/Zermatt is a good choice.

I would go bolt gun if you decide to stick with the Valkyrie. I'm looking at at 22 Creed to replace my semi Valk after my next build is complete. Remage build here as well.

 

[RFutch]

Been looking hard at the 224. Torn between an Upper or a bolt gun, leaning towards bolt gun at this point.
What considerations need to made when putting the gun together? I'm wanting to use the Bravo chassis, other than that not sure. Would like to keep the cost down (as much as you can with a semi custom rifle) Possibly an Origin for the action but I don't know much about custom actions. If there was a Tikka with the correct bolt face I would go that way.
Would be nice to be able to change the barrel fairly easily but maybe I don't need to, do I go Remage? Which is the most cost effective barrel to order, would like to just plug and play no reaming or anything on my end. Thinking 22", best combo of maneuverability and velocity.

I'm digging that there is tons of Valk ammo available even though I do reload I like the option of factory ammo, especially the affordable AE 75s. Also the heavy 224 pills seem to be more in stock that the 6-6.5mm stuff. Another benefit for me is the Valk will use less powder.
I would be just shooting on my own mostly and some local matches out to 1,000 with most of the stages being under 8-900.
Barrel life seems like it would be better than something like a 6 creed or 6.5 (but I am still considering both of those creeds)

I like doing as much as I can with smaller calibers but am aware they will not perform as well a 6-6.5mm. I don't mind perfecting wind calls.
I have a .223 SPR and a .308 bolt so the 224 would be a nice medium.

I built a bolt gun from an origin and put it in a bravo. It's great and I love it but I honestly don't think I'll do another barrel when I shoot this one out. I think next barrel I will just do a criterion with the match 223 chamber and shoot the Berger 85.5's instead.

The valkyrie is fun but its super finicky. I could not find one factory load that worked with my barrel and it took me almost 300 rounds of load development to find a hand load it liked. I usually have that done in under 50. Magazines are also a pain in the ass.

If you are looking for a AR with extra power I still think its a good round. But a bolt gun in .223 with the right bullet/chamber combo is right there with it. Just my .02

 

[DacianMH]

Been looking hard at the 224. Torn between an Upper or a bolt gun, leaning towards bolt gun at this point.
What considerations need to made when putting the gun together? I'm wanting to use the Bravo chassis, other than that not sure. Would like to keep the cost down (as much as you can with a semi custom rifle) Possibly an Origin for the action but I don't know much about custom actions. If there was a Tikka with the correct bolt face I would go that way.
Would be nice to be able to change the barrel fairly easily but maybe I don't need to, do I go Remage? Which is the most cost effective barrel to order, would like to just plug and play no reaming or anything on my end. Thinking 22", best combo of maneuverability and velocity.

I'm digging that there is tons of Valk ammo available even though I do reload I like the option of factory ammo, especially the affordable AE 75s. Also the heavy 224 pills seem to be more in stock that the 6-6.5mm stuff. Another benefit for me is the Valk will use less powder.
I would be just shooting on my own mostly and some local matches out to 1,000 with most of the stages being under 8-900.
Barrel life seems like it would be better than something like a 6 creed or 6.5 (but I am still considering both of those creeds)

I like doing as much as I can with smaller calibers but am aware they will not perform as well a 6-6.5mm. I don't mind perfecting wind calls.
I have a .223 SPR and a .308 bolt so the 224 would be a nice medium.

I would highly recommend it in a Bolt action ONLY with HS Precision DBM. In the bolt action you can load it to higher pressures and not worry as much about loose primer pockets since there’s no reciprocating bolt, the bolt stays locked up until you manually open it which to my experience has done very well to preserve the primer pockets for me. The 224 Valkyrie really shines as a reloaders cartridge over factory ammo because of some of the options in bullets like the 85.5gr Berger Hybrid and the 85gr Nosler RDF. I also have a similar experience as the previous poster. Very finicky and took a long time to get it right. I think I’ll start seriously looking at the 6mmARC when things start to come back in but in the meantime I still have options. I have a 6.5 Grendel and 6mm GT barrel sitting around for the same action as well. I have a case of 200 of the 75gr TMJ that I’m looking to sell too so if anyone was interested, PM me. I’m looking at getting out of the Valkyrie if I can move dies, brass, and bullets. I have over 400 pieces of sized, annealed, ready to load brass. I have boxes of ELDM 75, 80, 88, and 85 and 77 RDF, RCBS Gold Medal Match with bushing dies and a Hornady seater with ELD stem and Microjust, proven load data, modified OAL case, etc etc etc. I’ll probably sell this barrel too. It’s a 22” 1/6.5 twist .810 taperless chromoly barrel with 5/8x24 thread pitch. It was custom laser engraved in small inconspicuous print “224 Valkyrie 1/6.5t” and that’s it. No logos. Look at previous posts in this thread for pics of my groups and accuracy.

 

[jLorenzo]

Maybe 223 AI or something like that is the way then...

 

[DacianMH]

I’d prefer 22-250 fast twist. I’ve dabbled with the 22-250ai but it was more work than I was willing to do.