I am looking to build a .308win in about a year or so and am planning to put it into and AICS (most likely a 2.0). In the meantime I am planning on buying a good .22LR as a trainer and was thinking of a Savage Mark II FV. However, I need some advice as to whether I should be looking for a trainer with a similar gripping style, i.e. the thumbhole. I am looking to improve my trigger pull, breathing,grouping shots, etc. before I spend money on a build. I don't want to practice with a traditional style stock and find that I have to start all over with the thumbhole after the build. Any advice?
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.22LR trainer and .308 build
- Thread starter ColinH
- Start date
Re: .22LR trainer and .308 build
Yup... Remington 40XB in an AICS:
With Big Brother:
The problem is that it is going to cost you almost as much to build the "trainer" as your main rifle.
Yup... Remington 40XB in an AICS:
With Big Brother:
The problem is that it is going to cost you almost as much to build the "trainer" as your main rifle.
Re: .22LR trainer and .308 build
The first question you should probably ask yourself is WHAT DO <span style="text-decoration: underline">YOU</span> WANT?
There are generally two different schools of thought on rimfire trainers: 1) your rimfire trainer must almost identically mirror the "big bore" counterpart that is your primary rifle; or 2) your rimfire trainer is just a quality, reliable, accurate rifle that you can practice good position shooting, trigger control, ranging, dialing corrections for elevation/windage, etc., etc.
There are merits to both schools of thought, but what YOU want is what will be best for YOU.
In terms of your concerns about "starting all over" if you go traditional stock then you build your 308 using an AICS...I wouldn't worry about it that much as it should be a big problem. Yes, there are some muscle memory differences between the basic rifle stocks and the AICS and your hold/position on the rifle will be somewhat different, but more importantly, the fundamentals of accurate rifle shooting are the same.
Another thought...if you have not been behind an AI rifle or a rifle equipped with an AICS...get behind one and try it out before you drop the coin on a build (rimfire, centerfire or both). They are not for everyone and almost everyone I have met either loves or absolutely HATES the chassis...there isn't much in between. I happen to love the AI rifles and the AICS, but that is just my personal preference and observations.
Another important question to ask yourself is how much do you want to spend on your trainer before you drop the coin on a custom centerfire build? (Don't forget optics, mounts, etc.)? Going with an AICS-equipped trainer, you are basically stuck with a 40XB rimfire barreled action either stock or the action itself that you will have built out to your specs. This won't be cheap because by the time you find a 40XB rimfire (at $800+) and a Stage 2 Chassis (which you said you wanted...$950), you are pushing the $2k envelope without a single round fired in practice and without consideration of mounts/rings/optics/bipod/etc.
You don't necessarily need a multi-thousand dollar trainer topped with a $4000 S&B/Hensoldt/etc. scope, but you may want one. Your wants/needs and your budget really determines that first "leap" into the game.
With all that said, there is nothing wrong with less expensive trainer-type rifles, including CZ, Anschutz (little more $$), Savage, etc. You can get accuracy, reliability and a solid practice/trainer platform for a fraction of the money and you will still be achieving the most important thing...PRACTICE!!
The first question you should probably ask yourself is WHAT DO <span style="text-decoration: underline">YOU</span> WANT?
There are generally two different schools of thought on rimfire trainers: 1) your rimfire trainer must almost identically mirror the "big bore" counterpart that is your primary rifle; or 2) your rimfire trainer is just a quality, reliable, accurate rifle that you can practice good position shooting, trigger control, ranging, dialing corrections for elevation/windage, etc., etc.
There are merits to both schools of thought, but what YOU want is what will be best for YOU.
In terms of your concerns about "starting all over" if you go traditional stock then you build your 308 using an AICS...I wouldn't worry about it that much as it should be a big problem. Yes, there are some muscle memory differences between the basic rifle stocks and the AICS and your hold/position on the rifle will be somewhat different, but more importantly, the fundamentals of accurate rifle shooting are the same.
Another thought...if you have not been behind an AI rifle or a rifle equipped with an AICS...get behind one and try it out before you drop the coin on a build (rimfire, centerfire or both). They are not for everyone and almost everyone I have met either loves or absolutely HATES the chassis...there isn't much in between. I happen to love the AI rifles and the AICS, but that is just my personal preference and observations.
Another important question to ask yourself is how much do you want to spend on your trainer before you drop the coin on a custom centerfire build? (Don't forget optics, mounts, etc.)? Going with an AICS-equipped trainer, you are basically stuck with a 40XB rimfire barreled action either stock or the action itself that you will have built out to your specs. This won't be cheap because by the time you find a 40XB rimfire (at $800+) and a Stage 2 Chassis (which you said you wanted...$950), you are pushing the $2k envelope without a single round fired in practice and without consideration of mounts/rings/optics/bipod/etc.
You don't necessarily need a multi-thousand dollar trainer topped with a $4000 S&B/Hensoldt/etc. scope, but you may want one. Your wants/needs and your budget really determines that first "leap" into the game.
With all that said, there is nothing wrong with less expensive trainer-type rifles, including CZ, Anschutz (little more $$), Savage, etc. You can get accuracy, reliability and a solid practice/trainer platform for a fraction of the money and you will still be achieving the most important thing...PRACTICE!!
Re: .22LR trainer and .308 build
I have a Mark II FV for a trainer, and there is an advantage that might not be obvious. The rifle is extremely light. As a result, it magnifies shooter errors pretty well. I've learned more about trigger control just dry firing this rifle in my living room than I've picked up in thousands of rounds of centerfire shooting with a heavy rifle. If you build your trainer in a heavy chassis, you'll not get this magnification of issues function that I'm finding so valuable.
If funds were unlimited, I'd have both styles of trainer. Since funds are quite limited, I opted for the amazingly cheap Savage.
BTW, it shoots like crazy if I don't screw it up.
I have a Mark II FV for a trainer, and there is an advantage that might not be obvious. The rifle is extremely light. As a result, it magnifies shooter errors pretty well. I've learned more about trigger control just dry firing this rifle in my living room than I've picked up in thousands of rounds of centerfire shooting with a heavy rifle. If you build your trainer in a heavy chassis, you'll not get this magnification of issues function that I'm finding so valuable.
If funds were unlimited, I'd have both styles of trainer. Since funds are quite limited, I opted for the amazingly cheap Savage.
BTW, it shoots like crazy if I don't screw it up.
Re: .22LR trainer and .308 build
If you are going to get the "trainer" 1st and then build your centerfire in the exact manner then it is a good idea. If you are going to build a trainer becuase you already have a centerfire, not so good.
I found that I built my trainer with grand illusion that I would use it often when in fact I used every minute of range time I got on my actual rifle. Price may play a afctor into the matter but in my case it didnt, so I didnt want to waste TIME with shooting a .22
I built my trainer years ago and ended up parting it out.
If you do build, make sure you get everything as close to what your center fire will be. The best way to do that is on teh 40x platform as odds are your centerfire build will be on teh same. Otherwise, if you arent going to build your .22 on a 1:1 scale dont waste your time as your purpose is to be able to mimic exactly what your other rifle will be.
Good luck and don't forget your check book.
If you are going to get the "trainer" 1st and then build your centerfire in the exact manner then it is a good idea. If you are going to build a trainer becuase you already have a centerfire, not so good.
I found that I built my trainer with grand illusion that I would use it often when in fact I used every minute of range time I got on my actual rifle. Price may play a afctor into the matter but in my case it didnt, so I didnt want to waste TIME with shooting a .22
I built my trainer years ago and ended up parting it out.
If you do build, make sure you get everything as close to what your center fire will be. The best way to do that is on teh 40x platform as odds are your centerfire build will be on teh same. Otherwise, if you arent going to build your .22 on a 1:1 scale dont waste your time as your purpose is to be able to mimic exactly what your other rifle will be.
Good luck and don't forget your check book.
Re: .22LR trainer and .308 build
Thanks for the replies.
ORD - I haven't been behind an AICS yet, but plan to do so before I ever build on one. I do, however, find that thumbhole style on some factory rifles suits me just fine.
I haven't built the .308 yet due to the lack of funds that dominates university student life, but I am nearing the end of my degree and will be building hopefully over the course of next winter. In the meantime I was thinking of the .22 for my local 100yd indoor range, as shooting in the -20 to -40*C winters that are Saskatchewan is not that fun! I am not looking to spend thousands on the trainer so I would think that the AICS mounted 40xb might be out (for now). I have a gunshope nearby with the Savage mkII FV for $310 with a cheaper 3-9x40 bushnell scope on it. But should I maybe look into a different model savage (or other make) with a thumbhole type stock to get "as close to" the AICS as possible? Are there any types of thumbhole drop in stocks for .22's that anyone has used? Any suggestions on other accurate factory .22's? Thanks for the help
Thanks for the replies.
ORD - I haven't been behind an AICS yet, but plan to do so before I ever build on one. I do, however, find that thumbhole style on some factory rifles suits me just fine.
I haven't built the .308 yet due to the lack of funds that dominates university student life, but I am nearing the end of my degree and will be building hopefully over the course of next winter. In the meantime I was thinking of the .22 for my local 100yd indoor range, as shooting in the -20 to -40*C winters that are Saskatchewan is not that fun! I am not looking to spend thousands on the trainer so I would think that the AICS mounted 40xb might be out (for now). I have a gunshope nearby with the Savage mkII FV for $310 with a cheaper 3-9x40 bushnell scope on it. But should I maybe look into a different model savage (or other make) with a thumbhole type stock to get "as close to" the AICS as possible? Are there any types of thumbhole drop in stocks for .22's that anyone has used? Any suggestions on other accurate factory .22's? Thanks for the help
Re: .22LR trainer and .308 build
Boyds has some Savage Thumbhole stocks and here is a thread about the rifle you are thinking about and stocks:
http://www.snipershide.com/forum/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=1067089
The bottom line for now seems to be that you just need trigger time and worry about the ergonomics of the AICS later on.
Boyds has some Savage Thumbhole stocks and here is a thread about the rifle you are thinking about and stocks:
http://www.snipershide.com/forum/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=1067089
The bottom line for now seems to be that you just need trigger time and worry about the ergonomics of the AICS later on.
Re: .22LR trainer and .308 build
Many of us shoot several different styles of rifle.
A trainer is to train on the fundamentals.
The fundamentals translate to other platforms.
It is IDEAL to have the exact same ergonomics in a trainer and a full size rifle, but not mandatory.
Besides, the VAST MAJORITY of your training time should be dry firing your primary rifle. I use my .22 trainer for several other things, but trigger pull and bolt manipulation are practiced for hours in the comfort of my own home on my regular rifle.
Many of us shoot several different styles of rifle.
A trainer is to train on the fundamentals.
The fundamentals translate to other platforms.
It is IDEAL to have the exact same ergonomics in a trainer and a full size rifle, but not mandatory.
Besides, the VAST MAJORITY of your training time should be dry firing your primary rifle. I use my .22 trainer for several other things, but trigger pull and bolt manipulation are practiced for hours in the comfort of my own home on my regular rifle.
Re: .22LR trainer and .308 build
For another option, Mike at Underground Skunkworks makes a .22 action that is a direct drop-in to a Remington 700 stock (any type). I'm not sure if he is selling just the action or how handy you are, but he could certainly set you up with a nice .22.
For another option, Mike at Underground Skunkworks makes a .22 action that is a direct drop-in to a Remington 700 stock (any type). I'm not sure if he is selling just the action or how handy you are, but he could certainly set you up with a nice .22.
Re: .22LR trainer and .308 build
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: J-Ham</div><div class="ubbcode-body">For another option, Mike at Underground Skunkworks makes a .22 action that is a direct drop-in to a Remington 700 stock (any type). I'm not sure if he is selling just the action or how handy you are, but he could certainly set you up with a nice .22. </div></div>
Price check aisle 3...
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: J-Ham</div><div class="ubbcode-body">For another option, Mike at Underground Skunkworks makes a .22 action that is a direct drop-in to a Remington 700 stock (any type). I'm not sure if he is selling just the action or how handy you are, but he could certainly set you up with a nice .22. </div></div>
Price check aisle 3...
Re: .22LR trainer and .308 build
Cheaper option -
http://www.snipershide.com/forum/ubbthre...983#Post2176983
Cheaper option -
http://www.snipershide.com/forum/ubbthre...983#Post2176983
Re: .22LR trainer and .308 build
I am with LoneWolf on this one. I shoot several styles of rifles, at work and at home. Fundamentals are fundamentals. If you do a lot of reading in the Advanced Marksmanship section here, you will learn a lot. Those basic fundamentals will transfer from one rifle to the next. Saying that, I would probably be a better shooter with 1 platform if every rifle that I shot had the same stock, scope, trigger, LOP, and action..... but my bank account can't support that. My Marlin 60 shoots well below 1MOA, and it has saved me a lot of money over the years. I can't complain.
I am with LoneWolf on this one. I shoot several styles of rifles, at work and at home. Fundamentals are fundamentals. If you do a lot of reading in the Advanced Marksmanship section here, you will learn a lot. Those basic fundamentals will transfer from one rifle to the next. Saying that, I would probably be a better shooter with 1 platform if every rifle that I shot had the same stock, scope, trigger, LOP, and action..... but my bank account can't support that. My Marlin 60 shoots well below 1MOA, and it has saved me a lot of money over the years. I can't complain.
Re: .22LR trainer and .308 build
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: ROLEXrifleman</div><div class="ubbcode-body">If you are going to get the "trainer" 1st and then build your centerfire in the exact manner then it is a good idea. If you are going to build a trainer becuase you already have a centerfire, not so good.
I found that I built my trainer with grand illusion that I would use it often when in fact I used every minute of range time I got on my actual rifle. Price may play a afctor into the matter but in my case it didnt, so I didnt want to waste TIME with shooting a .22
I built my trainer years ago and ended up parting it out.
If you do build, make sure you get everything as close to what your center fire will be. The best way to do that is on teh 40x platform as odds are your centerfire build will be on teh same. Otherwise, if you arent going to build your .22 on a 1:1 scale dont waste your time as your purpose is to be able to mimic exactly what your other rifle will be.
Good luck and don't forget your check book.
</div></div>This is what catches me every time I think about building one- that I'll never shoot the f'ing thing, I'll be shooting my AW instead.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: ROLEXrifleman</div><div class="ubbcode-body">If you are going to get the "trainer" 1st and then build your centerfire in the exact manner then it is a good idea. If you are going to build a trainer becuase you already have a centerfire, not so good.
I found that I built my trainer with grand illusion that I would use it often when in fact I used every minute of range time I got on my actual rifle. Price may play a afctor into the matter but in my case it didnt, so I didnt want to waste TIME with shooting a .22
I built my trainer years ago and ended up parting it out.
If you do build, make sure you get everything as close to what your center fire will be. The best way to do that is on teh 40x platform as odds are your centerfire build will be on teh same. Otherwise, if you arent going to build your .22 on a 1:1 scale dont waste your time as your purpose is to be able to mimic exactly what your other rifle will be.
Good luck and don't forget your check book.
Re: .22LR trainer and .308 build
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: J-Ham</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Hey, I never said it was a cheap option
. </div></div>
LOL! Very true! It is sweet though, I think the 700 footprint action will be out in another month or so.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: J-Ham</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Hey, I never said it was a cheap option
LOL! Very true! It is sweet though, I think the 700 footprint action will be out in another month or so.
Re: .22LR trainer and .308 build
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: bm11</div><div class="ubbcode-body">This is what catches me every time I think about building one- that I'll never shoot the f'ing thing, I'll be shooting my AW instead. </div></div>
That is the point that I am at right now. I shoot the AE way more than I do my trainer. With my current schedule I am limited more on time than I am on ammo.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: bm11</div><div class="ubbcode-body">This is what catches me every time I think about building one- that I'll never shoot the f'ing thing, I'll be shooting my AW instead. </div></div>
That is the point that I am at right now. I shoot the AE way more than I do my trainer. With my current schedule I am limited more on time than I am on ammo.
Re: .22LR trainer and .308 build
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: LoneWolfUSMC</div><div class="ubbcode-body"> With my current schedule I am limited more on time than I am on ammo. </div></div>Exactly. If I lived in the country, I would be all over a nice trainer, because I could shoot for 15 minutes here and there without pissing off the neighbors. Unfortunately that is not the case though, the city I live in has a "no discharge of firearms" ordnance.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: LoneWolfUSMC</div><div class="ubbcode-body"> With my current schedule I am limited more on time than I am on ammo. </div></div>Exactly. If I lived in the country, I would be all over a nice trainer, because I could shoot for 15 minutes here and there without pissing off the neighbors. Unfortunately that is not the case though, the city I live in has a "no discharge of firearms" ordnance.
Re: .22LR trainer and .308 build
I have a 10/22 that I use as a trainer with a similar stock, same scope, and I worked really hard to get the trigger weight and crispness as close to my 308 as possible. I like to keep the two as close as possible. Works for me.
I have a 10/22 that I use as a trainer with a similar stock, same scope, and I worked really hard to get the trigger weight and crispness as close to my 308 as possible. I like to keep the two as close as possible. Works for me.
Re: .22LR trainer and .308 build
I was looking at the Tacticool from Boyds but at the bottom of the webpage I noticed that it said:
"The Savage MKII and MKI actions will also fit in these stocks but barrel channel may have gaps and additional hardware may need to be purchased from Savage to use these stocks."
Can anybody confirm the gaps in the barrel channel (any pics) or what "additional hardware" is required?
I was looking at the Tacticool from Boyds but at the bottom of the webpage I noticed that it said:
"The Savage MKII and MKI actions will also fit in these stocks but barrel channel may have gaps and additional hardware may need to be purchased from Savage to use these stocks."
Can anybody confirm the gaps in the barrel channel (any pics) or what "additional hardware" is required?
Re: .22LR trainer and .308 build
Now that you are focusing more on the rimfire/trainer aspect of this project...you might want to take a long look through the "Sniper's Hide Rimfire Section" which has a ton of info on these stocks/rifles, as well as a wealth of info on other quality rimfire trainers/stocks/etc.
You can browse through the section, or you can use the search engine linked to in my sig line below.
Good luck!!
Now that you are focusing more on the rimfire/trainer aspect of this project...you might want to take a long look through the "Sniper's Hide Rimfire Section" which has a ton of info on these stocks/rifles, as well as a wealth of info on other quality rimfire trainers/stocks/etc.
You can browse through the section, or you can use the search engine linked to in my sig line below.
Good luck!!
Re: .22LR trainer and .308 build
What they mean by gaps is that there are "E" and non "E" receivers used on the Savage MK rifles. There are photos of the differences posted over at RimfireCentral.com http://www.rimfirecentral.com/forums/forumdisplay.php?s=79a69e79fbcc3c1c0fc798a0782aa05a&f=24 What they mean by additional hardware, is that guns that came with the plastic stocks will need the trigger guard and other required bottom metal for a wood stock. That can be obtained directly from Savage and a few other suppliers.
What they mean by gaps is that there are "E" and non "E" receivers used on the Savage MK rifles. There are photos of the differences posted over at RimfireCentral.com http://www.rimfirecentral.com/forums/forumdisplay.php?s=79a69e79fbcc3c1c0fc798a0782aa05a&f=24 What they mean by additional hardware, is that guns that came with the plastic stocks will need the trigger guard and other required bottom metal for a wood stock. That can be obtained directly from Savage and a few other suppliers.
Re: .22LR trainer and .308 build
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: LoneWolfUSMC</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: bm11</div><div class="ubbcode-body">This is what catches me every time I think about building one- that I'll never shoot the f'ing thing, I'll be shooting my AW instead. </div></div>
That is the point that I am at right now. I shoot the AE way more than I do my trainer. With my current schedule I am limited more on time than I am on ammo. </div></div>
I hear you on the time piece-- I'm in the same boat. However, my 22LR shows me more about my hold and alignment problems at 100-300 than my 308 does at 1K. 22s are just terribly unforgiving past 50Y, so it keeps you straight on certain fundamentals.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: LoneWolfUSMC</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: bm11</div><div class="ubbcode-body">This is what catches me every time I think about building one- that I'll never shoot the f'ing thing, I'll be shooting my AW instead. </div></div>
That is the point that I am at right now. I shoot the AE way more than I do my trainer. With my current schedule I am limited more on time than I am on ammo. </div></div>
I hear you on the time piece-- I'm in the same boat. However, my 22LR shows me more about my hold and alignment problems at 100-300 than my 308 does at 1K. 22s are just terribly unforgiving past 50Y, so it keeps you straight on certain fundamentals.
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