22LR twist rate

[Near miss]

First, huge thanks for your work with testing and sharing the knowledge.
Second, sorry for lengthy post.. Had too much time on my hands and interested in hearing your thoughts.

I have a fixed twist faster than 10, below 22" in length, accuracy is terrible. At 22" it's incredible. Haven't tested longer than 22"....

MB

I would like to already order a barrel from a but going to wait for now I guess.
According to the quote above there is a quite a fine line between a proper MV and twist rate.
As I live in the North there really are some seasonal hardships when it comes to muzzle velocity.

But to my understanding how this works is that the barrel length is there to slow down the bullet.
So basically the colder it gets the less angular velocity is gained and thus groups should not get bigger due to too fast twist, on the contrary.

Personally, I have no issue with 22" as my present one is that length too.

But have you thought about testing a fast twist that would shoot well with shorter barrels? Because there is some play in the calculations that you get more even MV from the longer barrel, because as the barrel slows down the bullet, the slower velocity will cause greater vertical at the target!! This is because the faster the MV, the more forgiving it is for ES.

Comparison at 100m, 0.132BC
300 m/s to 310 m/s difference: 26cm drop vs. 24.4cm=1,6cm
310 m/s to 320 m/s difference: 24.4cm vs. 22.9 =1,5cm
At 300m:
300 m/s to 310 m/s difference: 536.7cm vs. 510.8cm= 25,9cm
310 m/s to 320 m/s difference: 510.8cm vs. 488.3cm=22,5cm
So at 300m having 10 m/s faster MV pays off by having 15% smaller vertical. In an effort to get the best out of 22LR SV rounds, this is good to consider.

My (not final / lacking) testing has shown me that around 1.5C changes velocity by 1 m/s.

This intrigues me since per earlier paragraph, in the colder enviroments lower MV compromises vertical grouping. I would want to go as fast as possible, preferably under the sonic boom. Going over the speed of sound would not probably add significant problems to flight since current velocities still travel a good bit in the transsonic region but I prefer going under just for the low noise, and lower wind deflection.

If my brain works correctly you would want to get somewhere around 320m/s (1050FPS) as possible in the summer 20-22C ( 70F) conditions, having around 335m/s ( 1090-1100) in the regions of 30-35C ( 85-95F)

That way in the 0C (30F) you would still be having 308m/s (1010FPS) muzzle velocity.

Around that point I would start using Biathlon ammo, which is of course slightly supersonic in warmer conditions.

 

[Dthomas3523]

First, huge thanks for your work with testing and sharing the knowledge.
Second, sorry for lengthy post.. Had too much time on my hands and interested in hearing your thoughts.



I would like to already order a barrel from a but going to wait for now I guess.
According to the quote above there is a quite a fine line between a proper MV and twist rate.
As I live in the North there really are some seasonal hardships when it comes to muzzle velocity.

But to my understanding how this works is that the barrel length is there to slow down the bullet.
So basically the colder it gets the less angular velocity is gained and thus groups should not get bigger due to too fast twist, on the contrary.

Personally, I have no issue with 22" as my present one is that length too.

But have you thought about testing a fast twist that would shoot well with shorter barrels? Because there is some play in the calculations that you get more even MV from the longer barrel, because as the barrel slows down the bullet, the slower velocity will cause greater vertical at the target!! This is because the faster the MV, the more forgiving it is for ES.

Comparison at 100m, 0.132BC
300 m/s to 310 m/s difference: 26cm drop vs. 24.4cm=1,6cm
310 m/s to 320 m/s difference: 24.4cm vs. 22.9 =1,5cm
At 300m:
300 m/s to 310 m/s difference: 536.7cm vs. 510.8cm= 25,9cm
310 m/s to 320 m/s difference: 510.8cm vs. 488.3cm=22,5cm
So at 300m having 10 m/s faster MV pays off by having 15% smaller vertical. In an effort to get the best out of 22LR SV rounds, this is good to consider.

My (not final / lacking) testing has shown me that around 1.5C changes velocity by 1 m/s.

This intrigues me since per earlier paragraph, in the colder enviroments lower MV compromises vertical grouping. I would want to go as fast as possible, preferably under the sonic boom. Going over the speed of sound would not probably add significant problems to flight since current velocities still travel a good bit in the transsonic region but I prefer going under just for the low noise, and lower wind deflection.

If my brain works correctly you would want to get somewhere around 320m/s (1050FPS) as possible in the summer 20-22C ( 70F) conditions, having around 335m/s ( 1090-1100) in the regions of 30-35C ( 85-95F)

That way in the 0C (30F) you would still be having 308m/s (1010FPS) muzzle velocity.

Around that point I would start using Biathlon ammo, which is of course slightly supersonic in warmer conditions.

With current ammo, supersonic is almost always a bad idea. You’ll be transonic mostly immediately and that has all kinds of challenges of its own.

 

[Near miss]

With current ammo, supersonic is almost always a bad idea. You’ll be transonic mostly immediately and that has all kinds of challenges of its own.

I only added it because I am willing to shoot slightly higher velocity ammo at average temps, even though it will possibly go supersonic in the hottest day of the summer.

 

[Old_Longhair]

With current ammo, supersonic is almost always a bad idea. You’ll be transonic mostly immediately and that has all kinds of challenges of its own.

This is one reason why I believe that slightly faster twist rates are a benefit. Increasing the rotational stability should in theory cause the disruption of the trans-sonic phase to be reduced.

 

[DBP1968]

I talked to Carson at Lilja the other day.. They can make a barrel with up to a 9" twist. I saw a post by someone on here that said that they had ordered one from Lilja. I'm definitely interested to see how it shoots for him.

On another note, gain twist rifling is making a comeback in the centerfire world... I wish I had the wherewithal to experiment with all of the possibilities with rimfire.

It's a pretty exciting time in the rimfire world right now!

Howdy, I ordered and received my 1:9 twist Lilja barrel. Put it in a RPR Rimfire. Wish I would have read Ravage88‘s posts about going 22in vs 18 though.
So the modifications I’ve done with this rifle are as follows.
1)Timney Trigger set at just a tick over 9oz post on IG about it @LibertyHillPrecision
2) Shaped striker
3) installed 1:9 twist 18in Lilja SS barrel with threads for suppressor

results
1) no real difference in accuracy but very nice trigger and a pleasure to shoot.
2) massive difference in what ammo “shoots well” before 1 ammo shot a 3/8in hole minus the occasional flyer (always a velocity diff used Labradar) with CCI subs now it shoot almost everything I stuff in it with 3/8 to 1/2 25y 7-10 shot Groups and very few flyers. Oddly the CCI did the worst in this round. Fiocchi which was horrid before is now the best shooting.
3) barrel add with suppressor shot the best. All ammo remained consistent 25-50y with slightly tighter groups. 100y opens to 1.5-2 MOA which of this was a 6.5CM or 338LM would be horrid but was okay I guess for 22LR subs. 200y 4in targets were not to difficult to hit but velocity become extremely important. Trying to consistently hit 2.25 size target was much more difficult. As a side note a shaped striker on a CZ457 with 22in ( I think or maybe it’s 24, anyway) hit the 3in target 4/5 times at 200y to Ravage88’s point about barrel length there must be something there.
So is a 550$ Lilja barrel worth it? Maybe if if had gotten the 22-24in it would show me something different. Regardless, instead of ordering another barrel I’m going to add a Charlie Tarac Micro. Which will add 200MOA of elevation and get me to 900y. I’ll update Instagram for sure when/if that shot happens.

another side note, I got the 1:9 twist to shoot 22 solids that are being made as I write this.

other questions you may have.... Scope on all my 22’s is the Vortex SE6-24. Has 8OMOA of elevation so with a 2O, 35,45, or 55 MOA rail you can really stretch them out. My rails are custom made for the CZ457’s by BScar, Bill is a great guy.

 

[Near miss]

Howdy, I ordered and received my 1:9 twist Lilja barrel. Put it in a RPR Rimfire. Wish I would have read Ravage88‘s posts about going 22in vs 18 though.
So the modifications I’ve done with this rifle are as follows.
1)Timney Trigger set at just a tick over 9oz post on IG about it @LibertyHillPrecision
2) Shaped striker
3) installed 1:9 twist 18in Lilja SS barrel with threads for suppressor

results
1) no real difference in accuracy but very nice trigger and a pleasure to shoot.
2) massive difference in what ammo “shoots well” before 1 ammo shot a 3/8in hole minus the occasional flyer (always a velocity diff used Labradar) with CCI subs now it shoot almost everything I stuff in it with 3/8 to 1/2 25y 7-10 shot Groups and very few flyers. Oddly the CCI did the worst in this round. Fiocchi which was horrid before is now the best shooting.
3) barrel add with suppressor shot the best. All ammo remained consistent 25-50y with slightly tighter groups. 100y opens to 1.5-2 MOA which of this was a 6.5CM or 338LM would be horrid but was okay I guess for 22LR subs. 200y 4in targets were not to difficult to hit but velocity become extremely important. Trying to consistently hit 2.25 size target was much more difficult. As a side note a shaped striker on a CZ457 with 22in ( I think or maybe it’s 24, anyway) hit the 3in target 4/5 times at 200y to Ravage88’s point about barrel length there must be something there.
So is a 550$ Lilja barrel worth it? Maybe if if had gotten the 22-24in it would show me something different. Regardless, instead of ordering another barrel I’m going to add a Charlie Tarac Micro. Which will add 200MOA of elevation and get me to 900y. I’ll update Instagram for sure when/if that shot happens.

another side note, I got the 1:9 twist to shoot 22 solids that are being made as I write this.

other questions you may have.... Scope on all my 22’s is the Vortex SE6-24. Has 8OMOA of elevation so with a 2O, 35,45, or 55 MOA rail you can really stretch them out. My rails are custom made for the CZ457’s by BScar, Bill is a great guy.

Try the SK Pistol Match and Lapua Pistol king.
They will have less MV / angular velocity and thus are maybe not slightly overspun.

So instead of making the barrel slow down the bullet, feed it slower cartridges. You might find its favorite.

 

[SanginSpecial]

Howdy, I ordered and received my 1:9 twist Lilja barrel. Put it in a RPR Rimfire. Wish I would have read Ravage88‘s posts about going 22in vs 18 though.
So the modifications I’ve done with this rifle are as follows.
1)Timney Trigger set at just a tick over 9oz post on IG about it @LibertyHillPrecision
2) Shaped striker
3) installed 1:9 twist 18in Lilja SS barrel with threads for suppressor

results
1) no real difference in accuracy but very nice trigger and a pleasure to shoot.
2) massive difference in what ammo “shoots well” before 1 ammo shot a 3/8in hole minus the occasional flyer (always a velocity diff used Labradar) with CCI subs now it shoot almost everything I stuff in it with 3/8 to 1/2 25y 7-10 shot Groups and very few flyers. Oddly the CCI did the worst in this round. Fiocchi which was horrid before is now the best shooting.
3) barrel add with suppressor shot the best. All ammo remained consistent 25-50y with slightly tighter groups. 100y opens to 1.5-2 MOA which of this was a 6.5CM or 338LM would be horrid but was okay I guess for 22LR subs. 200y 4in targets were not to difficult to hit but velocity become extremely important. Trying to consistently hit 2.25 size target was much more difficult. As a side note a shaped striker on a CZ457 with 22in ( I think or maybe it’s 24, anyway) hit the 3in target 4/5 times at 200y to Ravage88’s point about barrel length there must be something there.
So is a 550$ Lilja barrel worth it? Maybe if if had gotten the 22-24in it would show me something different. Regardless, instead of ordering another barrel I’m going to add a Charlie Tarac Micro. Which will add 200MOA of elevation and get me to 900y. I’ll update Instagram for sure when/if that shot happens.

another side note, I got the 1:9 twist to shoot 22 solids that are being made as I write this.

other questions you may have.... Scope on all my 22’s is the Vortex SE6-24. Has 8OMOA of elevation so with a 2O, 35,45, or 55 MOA rail you can really stretch them out. My rails are custom made for the CZ457’s by BScar, Bill is a great guy.

Did the CZ that you mentioned as a side note have a fast twist barrel too, or was it a "standard" 16 twist?

 

[Rimfireshooter99]

Howdy, I ordered and received my 1:9 twist Lilja barrel. Put it in a RPR Rimfire. Wish I would have read Ravage88‘s posts about going 22in vs 18 though.
So the modifications I’ve done with this rifle are as follows.
1)Timney Trigger set at just a tick over 9oz post on IG about it @LibertyHillPrecision
2) Shaped striker
3) installed 1:9 twist 18in Lilja SS barrel with threads for suppressor

results
1) no real difference in accuracy but very nice trigger and a pleasure to shoot.
2) massive difference in what ammo “shoots well” before 1 ammo shot a 3/8in hole minus the occasional flyer (always a velocity diff used Labradar) with CCI subs now it shoot almost everything I stuff in it with 3/8 to 1/2 25y 7-10 shot Groups and very few flyers. Oddly the CCI did the worst in this round. Fiocchi which was horrid before is now the best shooting.
3) barrel add with suppressor shot the best. All ammo remained consistent 25-50y with slightly tighter groups. 100y opens to 1.5-2 MOA which of this was a 6.5CM or 338LM would be horrid but was okay I guess for 22LR subs. 200y 4in targets were not to difficult to hit but velocity become extremely important. Trying to consistently hit 2.25 size target was much more difficult. As a side note a shaped striker on a CZ457 with 22in ( I think or maybe it’s 24, anyway) hit the 3in target 4/5 times at 200y to Ravage88’s point about barrel length there must be something there.
So is a 550$ Lilja barrel worth it? Maybe if if had gotten the 22-24in it would show me something different. Regardless, instead of ordering another barrel I’m going to add a Charlie Tarac Micro. Which will add 200MOA of elevation and get me to 900y. I’ll update Instagram for sure when/if that shot happens.

another side note, I got the 1:9 twist to shoot 22 solids that are being made as I write this.

other questions you may have.... Scope on all my 22’s is the Vortex SE6-24. Has 8OMOA of elevation so with a 2O, 35,45, or 55 MOA rail you can really stretch them out. My rails are custom made for the CZ457’s by BScar, Bill is a great guy.

Remember, the fast twist is very helpful at long distances, so you should not expect significant improvement at 50/100 yards. You might be seeing the short-distance improvements from using a Lilja match barrel, more so than the fast twist. Just a thought... Good luck shooting, looks like a good improvement so far...

 

[CoolJJ]

This has been an interesting discussion.

I've been wondering why a 16 twist was chosen as the standard in the first place? Is it because this works in more barrel length variations? Why didn't rifle manufacturers with the longer barreled target rifles choose to use faster twist barrels? It never occurred to them?

 

[Near miss]

This has been an interesting discussion.

I've been wondering why a 16 twist was chosen as the standard in the first place? Is it because this works in more barrel length variations? Why didn't rifle manufacturers with the longer barreled target rifles choose to use faster twist barrels? It never occurred to them?

It might be related to official sports that 22LR was used in if 16 twist offers best performance at 50 yds / meters. I hope so.

The other option is "Because it always used to be 1 in 16 and that is how we do it"

While more twist will make BC higher it will make the aerodynamic jump more pronounced. When shooting a small round target with irons, that Z figure that the wind does to bullet hit placement is hard to overcome.

 

[1813Benny]

It might be related to official sports that 22LR was used in if 16 twist offers best performance at 50 yds / meters. I hope so.

The other option is "Because it always used to be 1 in 16 and that is how we do it"

While more twist will make BC higher it will make the aerodynamic jump more pronounced. When shooting a small round target with irons, that Z figure that the wind does to bullet hit placement is hard to overcome.

If you look at the history of the .22 rimfire, it dates back to the mid-1800's and the original design was the .22 short followed later by the .22 long. The use of the cartridge was for indoor parlor and gallery target shooting. The .22 long rifle that we use today evolved from the .22 short and .22 long, which were loaded with much lighter bullets (around 30 grain if my memory is correct).

As for the barrels, the .22 short twist rate was 1:22 due to the shorter and lighter bullet. Decades later, along comes the .22 long rifle using a 40 grain bullet, so the faster 1:16 twist was developed and settled on (probably after the combination of calculations and trial and error). Looking back, also remember that barrel length was as much of an importance for sight radius (metallic sights) as it was for stabilization of the bullet so I would not necessarily throw those who settled on the 1:16 twist under the bus.

The use of this ammunition was not originally designed to be pushed out to 300+ yards as is being done today. Net result of the recent interest in new longer range rimfire events has driven the surge in the investigation of alternate twist rates, barrel lengths, etc.

It's a new world....

(As for shooting with iron sights in high wind, it's not that difficult out to 100 yards even using just 2 wind flags as is common at small bore prone events. Competitors either wait for their condition or shade as necessary - both techniques are common. Shoot enough and corrections become second nature.)

Regards,
ken

 

[pkt1199]

No problem. I haven't been as available as normal, but that'll change as we complete the ramping up required for the new magazines, magnums and coming three lug single shot.

MB

Hey Mike,

At the risk of being too annoying - I was hoping there may be an update on the fast twist 22 endeavor. As you suggested I'm refraining from calling the shop and asking for a 9 twist or whatever the hotness may be spun on an action (still difficult); but certainly still chomping at the bit. That said, do you happen to have any further detail or outlook you could share with us?

I truly appreciate the time and effort you put into your products - it shows. That is a major reason I'm excited for the fast twist - if you're standing behind it and you release it to the world I'll gladly throw money at it as I know it will be worth it!

Thanks!

 

[JaoeyP]

I'm sorry @RAVAGE88 what I think my friend in the last post meant to convey was something more along the lines of:

 

[Roslyn]

A little late to this thread, two questions that might bear on the outcome of the twist rate:

One, would the faster twist (9 or whatever the best number ends up being) be improved with a longer barrel -- 26 inches for example? Or is barrel length likely only to impact velocity? I guess my question is whether the faster twist, having stabilized the bullet at 22 inches of barrel length, be improved with the twist being applied for a longer segment of the bore?

Two, might a tuner on the muzzle, at whatever length barrel, improve grouping of a faster twist barrel because it modifies barrel harmonics?

I own a Vudoo Apparition at 22 inches, with a Bostrom tuner on the muzzle, which shoots lights out if/when I get the tuning right for the lot of ammunition I am shooting. But that is all about matching ammunition to harmonics and nothing about improved performance with faster twist.

 

[JAS-SH]

This has been an interesting discussion.
Very
I've been wondering why a 16 twist was chosen as the standard in the first place? Is it because this works in more barrel length variations? Why didn't rifle manufacturers with the longer barreled target rifles choose to use faster twist barrels? It never occurred to them?

It's possible that the 1:16 twist for the .22 Long Rifle cartridge might have been chosen because it was originally a black powder cartridge. Slower burning, it's likely that longer barrels were needed.

The .22 LR came about in 1887, as far as I can tell, rifles from that era chambered in .22 LR sported 24 inch octagonal barrels.

I found and interesting post in the Shilo Rifle Forum titled "stepping back in time" from a poster that in 2009 duplicated the original .22 LR using data found in an 1896 U.M.C. catalog (Union Metallic Cartridge pretty much invented the .22 LR). He was able to shoot those out of a Marlin 39A. Very entertaining and informative. The numbers will surprise you. Here's the link:

http://www.shilohrifle.com/forums/viewtopic.php?t=14461#p141695

JAS

 

[swhiteh3]

The Berger Stability Calculator will quickly tell you that 1:16" is not enough twist for a .22LR bullet (0.480", 0.140G1, 1080fps), especially when it's cold. You're losing a lot of BC, and you don't have much to start with! I have money in the bank waiting to change the barrel in my Vudoo from a 20" Kukri 1:16", to a 22" Kukri 1:9" (or whatever twist Ravage recommends that is 1:13 or faster).

 

[Near miss]

There were some 6DOF ballistics ran and it determined that 9" vs 16" twist might be able to even out the problems during the bullet exiting the barrel that affects its flight later on.
However there are many different calculations that make up the results and it is still inconclusive as a whole.
It would be cool to research what twist specifically offers the best sides (for example, 16" has lower wind drift) but it is still very inconclusive as each spin needs to be checked and some data required for running it is still missing.

It seems the long range flight for 22LR bullet is not such a joyride in the ballistic sense it could be. There seems to be legitimate reasons to go with a tighter twist even without counting in the effect of cold weather.

 

[nockhunter]

I am thinking that a 22" 1:12 or 1:14 barrel would do very well for the ammo available today.

Mike

 

[FromMyColdDeadHand]

What about restriction on the barrel end? Aren’t some barrels supposed to have restriction near the muzzle for better Balistics - how or why I don’t know. Does faster twist make that an unneeded feature?

 

[seanh]

Yes, it's called a choke Barrel, quite common in the air gun industry. With rimfires I think the only companies that do this are high-end Match Rifle manufacturers.

 

[nockhunter]

Has anyone actually used a 1:14 twist 22lr at long range, like 200y?

Mike

 

[Shifty6BR]

Has anyone actually used a 1:14 twist 22lr at long range, like 200y?

Mike

I'll let you know when I get mine back from chambering, bedding and coating. I tried out a 14tw Hart finished at 24" forward of recoil lug so should be close to a 26" bbl.

Should be real soon.

 

[nockhunter]

Nice,,,, that's the barrel I was looking at.

Mike

 

[4Certain]

Good morning Rimfire Friends. I will echo the query above from pkt1199. Mike, Ravage88, wild guess... Will there be a Gen 3 with your current Gen 2 bolt upgrades, other goodies that you may add from the learning and investigations in the V22S project as it fits with a repeater, and the 22" 1:9 Twist Barrel? Any wild guess on when that action be offered?

I am also curious if this 'Gen 3' will still have a 60 degree sear? Is there a reason the 90 degree sear is 'not needed' or will not work as well in the V22 Repeater?

Thank you for your thoughts. We know you are crazy busy. And we are glad you are!! We wish you and your crew great success. 4Certain

 

[ccollier]

I'll let you know when I get mine back from chambering, bedding and coating. I tried out a 14tw Hart finished at 24" forward of recoil lug so should be close to a 26" bbl.

Should be real soon.

I'm wishing you luck and anxiously wait to hear your report back. Please keep us posted!

Shane

 

[Shifty6BR]

I'm wishing you luck and anxiously wait to hear your report back. Please keep us posted!

Shane

Thanks!! Last I heard he was hoping to get buttoned up by end of next week.

Anxiously waiting as well.

 

[seanh]

If the weather holds I'll probably be going to the range Wednesday. Will be shooting the 60s era for 40x, 14 twist. Hopefully nobody will give me crap for it this time. Last time I was there shooting at 200, even though I was doing very well was told rimfires aren't allowed at the 200-yard range... American Shooting Center here in Houston

 

[ta6ppc]

If the weather holds I'll probably be going to the range Wednesday. Will be shooting the 60s era for 40x, 14 twist. Hopefully nobody will give me crap for it this time. Last time I was there shooting at 200, even though I was doing very well was told rimfires aren't allowed at the 200-yard range... American Shooting Center here in Houston

I shoot at a public range sometimes and they won’t allow 22 Rimfire on the 100 yard line, they say it’s to low velocity and they don’t want a stray bullet bouncing out of their trap.. I hate it because I know damn well I could stack my shots in there sub moa and perhaps even 1/2 moa and I have the dope for 22lr that’s proven to 450 yards..

makes me wanna but land and design a shooting range to accommodate all types of shooting.

 

[nockhunter]

Any results with that barrel yet?

Mike

 

[RTH1800]

Mike,
Thanks for asking. We are sorting out a slight chambering issue. Should get more data in about two weeks. Will be sure to post.

 

[Shifty6BR]

For me I can't tell ya...apparently 3 months isnt enough time to have a barrel chambered. I'm still waiting.

 

[nockhunter]

Mike,
Thanks for asking. We are sorting out a slight chambering issue. Should get more data in about two weeks. Will be sure to post.

Did you get to shoot that thing yet? you're killin me.

Mike

 

[RTH1800]

It should return soon. I will not forget.

 

[MCNL]

Ok...so should I put off buying a Tikka T1X due to the rate of twist if long rang is the purpose of the build.

 

[Swaim13]

Ok...so should I put off buying a Tikka T1X due to the rate of twist if long rang is the purpose of the build.

Depending on what you are calling long range, I would save some more and get a rimx or a vudoo. The rimx is nice bc you can swap the barrels and not have to worry about the extractor cuts. The vudoo is just a really nice rifle and there are posts on here of a guy hitting 1k yards w it. There aren't a ton of faster twist barrels out there yet for 22 LR. PVA posted that beyond 200 yards they were seeing benefits of a 1:12 twist.

 

[pkt1199]

Ok...so should I put off buying a Tikka T1X due to the rate of twist if long rang is the purpose of the build.

I wouldn't put off for that reason if you also plan on doing regular rimfire shooting with the rifle. The fast twist stuff is very early in the R&D per my understanding.

I was also concerned on this and delaying a Vudoo in the hopes of fast twist. However, in talking with them, and I'm paraphrasing here, the fast twist looks promising but you will need heavier than the typical forty grain bullets or spun solids that you will be hand loading as nobody offers this from factory - in order to get the gains... Therefore your rifle becomes kind of a one trick pony (until factory loads or it becomes more popular in the industry).

All that said, I got my Vudoo about a month ago with a standard twist and am thrilled. When fast twist becomes main stream its easy enough to rebarrel.

 

[MCNL]

Thank you guys for the information...now I have to decide on a T1X on a Bravo stock...or just order the Vudoo! I have some 10/22s for plinking...I really want to get into precision rifle shooting and the competitions...they look like so much fun!

 

[pkt1199]

Thank you guys for the information...now I have to decide on a T1X on a Bravo stock...or just order the Vudoo! I have some 10/22s for plinking...I really want to get into precision rifle shooting and the competitions...they look like so much fun!

They are super fun. You can't go wrong getting into it, particularly if you have a local club nearby already hosting matches. Not sure if you saw this thread but maybe worth a read through as you weigh your options

 

[Shifty6BR]

Almost there..

I'm curious to see results of a side by side with my 452 which has held it's own 200 and beyond, and I am guessing is a 16tw?...

 

[nockhunter]

"Welllllll, we're waiting"

 

[FromMyColdDeadHand]

I wouldn't put off for that reason if you also plan on doing regular rimfire shooting with the rifle. The fast twist stuff is very early in the R&D per my understanding.

I was also concerned on this and delaying a Vudoo in the hopes of fast twist. However, in talking with them, and I'm paraphrasing here, the fast twist looks promising but you will need heavier than the typical forty grain bullets or spun solids that you will be hand loading as nobody offers this from factory - in order to get the gains... Therefore your rifle becomes kind of a one trick pony (until factory loads or it becomes more popular in the industry).

All that said, I got my Vudoo about a month ago with a standard twist and am thrilled. When fast twist becomes main stream its easy enough to rebarrel.

I thought the question was if the standard twist was even fast enough for 40 grainers? So as to get the most out of current ammo.

 

[Shifty6BR]

Well had the rifle back for errr. prob a month now, had it out twice mainly just to zero and test some ammo. Sorry guys, just been to darn busy to really get out and do anything, been working 6-7 a week, off to work again this morning and rain tomorrow so hopefully next weekend conditions will be more favorable for some distance comparison.

Not much to offer other than test groups so far at 50yds, 40gr with the 14 tw, so kind of inconclusive I suppose.

 

[nockhunter]

I get it man, work gets in the way of all the fun stuff. Looks good at 50y.

Mike

 

[Near miss]

Thanks for the brief pre-review. Looks promising.
Please more groups next time

 

[Shifty6BR]

Finally, I have a morning open tomorrow, all clear to 1pm.

Where did I go wrong in life..

 

[Asared]

Finally, I have a morning open tomorrow, all clear to 1pm.

I'm in lockdown, range is closed :-( Reading about shooting online is keeping me amused and have been following this thread keenly from the beginning.

I'm shooting vicariously through you today, looking forward to a report. Happy shooting!

 

[Bmwe36as]

bump! lets get some updates!

 

[Kisssofdeath]

IBI is also experimenting with fast twist rimfire barrels. How's that for an update?

 

[Jadams]

PVA is offering a 12 twist barrel for Rim X actions. Anybody try one of these yet?

 

[Geno C.]

I dabble in a little faster twist