280AI vs 6.5PRC

[Sgtvandy]

Ballistically these two seem to be very close in a lot of category’s on paper (6.5prc vs 280AI).
In a hunting rig only for whitetail, muley, pronghorn and elk does anyone have real world experience or run the data to confirm one or the other. I do not reload yet but have access with a buddy where we have some pet loads in certain calibers. availability in normal conditions could be factor but in the end it’s just what is ballistically superior at real life long range ethical kill shot distances. For me 500-800 yards if everything is perfect.
500 is longest kill to date I’m not saying I’d take the 800 but I’d practice it.
The 280AI intrigues me but everywhere I look in new weapon systems it seems to be 6.5cm and 6.5prc. If I have a 6.5 would it be smarter to just go to a 308?

 

[BLEE]

If you load your own, I say go with 280AI. It's a very versatile round. You can use non-magnum powders and primers for the lighter projectiles and magnum components for the heavies... or not. Also, you can fire form your 270 Winchester brass, if you can't find ready made 280AI brass. Really, you probably need a heavier magnum for beyond 600 yards, on Elk. 280AI and Berger 175gr Elites are a wicked combination at 2900fps, much harder hitting than 6.5PRC with Berger 156gr Elites at 2850fps, or so.
On second thought, I say go with 280AI, it easily outclasses the 6.5PRC, as a North American hunting round, as game size increases.

 

[Supersubes]

If you like the 280ai, just do it. Both have a very similar case capacity, but the 280 can shoot a fair bit heavier bullet if thats your thing. Great cartridge, and very accurate. Maybe the question is, exactly how much elk will you chase realistically?

 

[supercorndogs]

Does the 6.5 PRC use a magnum bolt face?

 

[Supersubes]

Does the 6.5 PRC use a magnum bolt face?

Yes

 

[Steel head]

For bigger critters like elk I’d definitely prefer a 7mm and 280AI is pretty damn capable cartridge.

 

[ormandj]

For bigger critters like elk I’d definitely prefer a 7mm and 280AI is pretty damn capable cartridge.

I agree. The 280AI is what I’m building now after debating 7SAUM vs. 280AI (@Steel head and I had just had a discussion about this recently!). If you’re using a long action, build a 280AI, if you have a medium/XM action, then 7SAUM is a better bet.

6.5mm is probably my favorite all-around caliber, but in the 6.5CM/6.5x55 class of cartridges. 7mm in the 7SAUM/280AI range (or 7RM/7LRM which may be 7 PRC later this year/next according to rumors) is great, and then 30cal+ once you get larger. 6.5 PRC is nice for ringing steel, but if you’re planning on game like Elk at longer ranges, you’ll want the 7mm heavies (or larger).

 

[Schw15]

When elk is on the table I like bigger the better. I have killed a few elk no issues with 6.5 but the 280 ackley would be my pick over the 6.5 prc. Pick a good bullet like pva 151 or 170 maybe hammer bullets for the elk hunting

 

[Whiskey_Tango6.5]

If you load your own, I say go with 280AI. It's a very versatile round. You can use non-magnum powders and primers for the lighter projectiles and magnum components for the heavies... or not. Also, you can fire form your 270 Winchester brass, if you can't find ready made 280AI brass. Really, you probably need a heavier magnum for beyond 600 yards, on Elk. 280AI and Berger 175gr Elites are a wicked combination at 2900fps, much harder hitting than 6.5PRC with Berger 156gr Elites at 2850fps, or so.
On second thought, I say go with 280AI, it easily outclasses the 6.5PRC, as a North American hunting round, as game size increases.

Is 2850 a realistic number for 156 out of a 6.5 PRC? I'm getting 2790 from a 26" 6.5CM.

 

[BLEE]

Is 2850 a realistic number for 156 out of a 6.5 PRC? I'm getting 2790 from a 26" 6.5CM.

This was from other's posts. 2800-2850fps seems very common.

 

[BadAccountant]

.280AI is the cat's ass in a 7mm. 162s shot out of an AI are a fantastic all around combo LR, hunting, and target shooting.

Barrel life is good, lots of powders work well, and in my experience a well-built rifle will shoot a lot of different powder and bullet combinations well.

 

[CerebralDistortion]

IMO 280AI, too many pros vs 6.5PRC.
But that's a matter of opinion...

 

[Lightning8]

My 280AI has worked very well on Wyoming mule deer and antelope over multiple seasons. Factory 162ELDX ammo is easy button.

 

[Lucreau]

Is 2850 a realistic number for 156 out of a 6.5 PRC? I'm getting 2790 from a 26" 6.5CM.

I’m getting 2868fps with 156gr Berger’s out of my 22” 6.5prc proof barrel.

 

[AXEFORCE6]

This was from other's posts. 2800-2850fps seems very common.

From most accounts I’ve found that’s really slow. My 6.5 PRC shoots the 156 bergers at 3015 with N565. 24” barrel.

 

[Lucreau]

From most accounts I’ve found that’s really slow. My 6.5 PRC shoots the 156 bergers at 3015 with N565. 24” barrel.

What charge weight?

 

[ormandj]

From most accounts I’ve found that’s really slow. My 6.5 PRC shoots the 156 bergers at 3015 with N565. 24” barrel.

Rifle reloading data | Handloading | Rifle calibers | Centerfire Rifle bullets | Reload your own ammo - Vihtavuori

Vihtavuori offers rifle reloading data for numerous calibers and bullets for match and hunting purposes. Never exceed maximum loads.

www.vihtavuori.com

Not the exact same bullet, but you're likely above max chamber pressure. N565 is listed as max 2707 fps from a 24" barrel with a 153gr a-tip. VV data is pretty conservative and the bullet has a different bearing surface, but even UR, who tends to have "spicy" loads, maxes out around 2922 fps with a 24" barrel, 156 EOLs, and 56gr of N565: https://ultimatereloader.com/2021/06/27/ultimate-6-5-prc-hunting-load-berger-156-elite-hunter-n565/ and based on past load data from them, it is also likely above SAAMI specified chamber pressure.

I think 2800-2900 range is probably a safer bet in the 22-24" barrel length range for 6.5 PRC w/ 156 EOLs and N565.

 

[owtlaw]

I own and have hunted with both. I am also a hunting guide out here in the west. I have a rule when hunting elk. You must shoot a 160 grain bullet at the minimum. I also prefer to have my speed at impact at 1800 or higher. The .280 AI is capable of at or very near the same velocities as the 7 Mags. I rum a 168 at 2988 fps out of a 24 inch barrel and could actually push it harder if I wanted. This gets me to about 850 yards. Also noteworthy. If you shoot a lot, the .280 barrel will last longer than the 6.5. Also noteworthy. the .280 AI brass seems to last forever and I never have to trim it.

 

[AXEFORCE6]

Rifle reloading data | Handloading | Rifle calibers | Centerfire Rifle bullets | Reload your own ammo - Vihtavuori

Vihtavuori offers rifle reloading data for numerous calibers and bullets for match and hunting purposes. Never exceed maximum loads.

www.vihtavuori.com

Not the exact same bullet, but you're likely above max chamber pressure. N565 is listed as max 2707 fps from a 24" barrel with a 153gr a-tip. VV data is pretty conservative and the bullet has a different bearing surface, but even UR, who tends to have "spicy" loads, maxes out around 2922 fps with a 24" barrel, 156 EOLs, and 56gr of N565: https://ultimatereloader.com/2021/06/27/ultimate-6-5-prc-hunting-load-berger-156-elite-hunter-n565/ and based on past load data from them, it is also likely above SAAMI specified chamber pressure.

I think 2800-2900 range is probably a safer bet in the 22-24" barrel length range for 6.5 PRC w/ 156 EOLs and N565.

Pressure is fine. No heavy bolt lift. No swipe marks. Primers are fine. I do not put a lot of stock in the load data from VV. N568 is listed as being capable of producing faster loads than N565 is with those bullets yet from research I pressure out along faster with N568. One thing to note is not all barrels are equal. I have two rifles chambered in 6.5prc. One shoots faster than the other. I’ve seen data from guys shooting that bullet faster than I am with with the same powder but more charge and with RL26. The websites are great for data but they aren’t hard facts until you test them yourself. That’s why people should work up loads. Different components matter as will.

 

[AXEFORCE6]

What charge weight?

I’ll have to look big I believe it’s 58.4gr

 

[BLEE]

From most accounts I’ve found that’s really slow. My 6.5 PRC shoots the 156 bergers at 3015 with N565. 24” barrel.

>3000fps definitely makes it more competitive with 280AI. That does sound like it's pushing the pressure limits, though. Stay safe!

 

[ormandj]

>3000fps definitely makes it more competitive with 280AI. That does sound like it's pushing the pressure limits, though. Stay safe!

That’s not in the same ballpark for hunting, which the OP indicated he was interested in, including elk. At more realistic safe velocities it’ll hang alongside on steel, though, with less recoil than the 180 Hybrids on a 280AI so if purely plinking steel it’s not a bad setup at all.

 

[AXEFORCE6]

>3000fps definitely makes it more competitive with 280AI. That does sound like it's pushing the pressure limits, though. Stay safe!

I appreciate it my friend.

 

[AXEFORCE6]

That’s not in the same ballpark for hunting, which the OP indicated he was interested in, including elk. At more realistic safe velocities it’ll hang alongside on steel, though, with less recoil than the 180 Hybrids on a 280AI so if purely plinking steel it’s not a bad setup at all.

If he left out elk. I’d say 6.5PRC without a doubt. Assuming he loads his own 280 AI is a great choice. But considering loading your own I wouldn’t bother with either if I had elk in the mix. I wouldn’t go any smaller than a good 30 cal. 300wm. 300PRC. 300wsm. Are few to come to mind.

 

[ormandj]

If he left out elk. I’d say 6.5PRC without a doubt. Assuming he loads his own 280 AI is a great choice. But considering loading your own I wouldn’t bother with either if I had elk in the mix. I wouldn’t go any smaller than a good 30 cal. 300wm. 300PRC. 300wsm. Are few to come to mind.

I don’t like the recoil of the 30s, and the 7s get it done, but I can see that side too. If it’s a mixed use hunting/range rifle, 7mms are hard to beat. If it’s dedicated hunting, you’re probably right with the 30s, and if it’s a range toy, I do agree, 6.5mm.

 

[Lucreau]

6.5prc is more than capable on every animal you’ve listed. I’d urge you to dig through the 6.5prc threads to find real world experience. Not the lack there of in this thread. What it should really come down to is how readily available components are to load both rounds. 6.5prc has been fairly difficult to hunt down brass, not sure about 280AI

 

[AXEFORCE6]

I don’t like the recoil of the 30s, and the 7s get it done, but I can see that side too. If it’s a mixed use hunting/range rifle, 7mms are hard to beat. If it’s dedicated hunting, you’re probably right with the 30s, and if it’s a range toy, I do agree, 6.5mm.

A good brake kills recoil to the point to where you wouldn’t notice a difference between them. It sounds like you have your mind made up on a 280AI.

 

[ormandj]

6.5prc is more than capable on every animal you’ve listed. I’d urge you to dig through the 6.5prc threads to find real world experience. Not the lack there of in this thread. What it should really come down to is how readily available components are to load both rounds. 6.5prc has been fairly difficult to hunt down brass, not sure about 280AI

Hunting elk at 500-800 yards that the OP mentioned, with a 6.5PRC, even with a 156 EOL, isn’t really what I’d consider ethical. Sure, a great double lung shot may do the job, but you’re pushing your luck much beyond 500-600 yards with any non-perfect shot. I don’t know how you’re calling out a lack thereof in this thread, as I’m sure many of us here have significant hunting experience, which you will generally see evidence of when suggestions of 7mm/30cal/etc come up with Elk. That’s not to say 6.5 PRC can’t do the job, it can, but you do not want to be anywhere near the edge of performance when ethically hunting, especially at the distances in question. The time of flight is enough for a good shot to become a mediocre shot, and you’ll want every last bit of velocity, energy, and expansion on target you can get.

 

[ormandj]

A good brake kills recoil to the point to where you wouldn’t notice a difference between them. It sounds like you have your mind made up on a 280AI.

I don’t shoot braked, I shoot suppressed. I just put 50-100 rounds downrange a weekend with my rifles, and the 30s aren’t comfortable for me to shoot at that volume - years of shoulder damage have taken their toll. I’ve agreed with you, 30 caliber cartridges are better for hunting. Just not the best fit for me. For elk, I 100% agree, they are better than the 7s, but I think either 7s or 30s are sufficient, and 6.5mms are borderline at longer distances with Elk.

 

[Lucreau]

Hunting elk at 500-800 yards that the OP mentioned, with a 6.5PRC, even with a 156 EOL, isn’t really what I’d consider ethical. Sure, a great double lung shot may do the job, but you’re pushing your luck much beyond 500-600 yards with any non-perfect shot. I don’t know how you’re calling out a lack thereof in this thread, as I’m sure many of us here have significant hunting experience, which you will generally see evidence of when suggestions of 7mm/30cal/etc come up with Elk. That’s not to say 6.5 PRC can’t do the job, it can, but you do not want to be anywhere near the edge of performance when ethically hunting, especially at the distances in question. The time of flight is enough for a good shot to become a mediocre shot, and you’ll want every last bit of velocity, energy, and expansion on target you can get.

View attachment 7814482

You mention range toys for 6.5prc and plinking. So yes, you are the lack there of. And who said an 800yd shot with any cal is ethical? Certainly not in my log. I’m not saying there aren’t better cartridges for the job, there always is, but it is certainly a very capable round.
Again to the op, I’d dig around in the 6.5prc archives if you’re interested in that cartridge, MUCH more info there than you will get responses to

 

[ormandj]

You mention range toys for 6.5prc and plinking. So yes, you are the lack there of. And who said an 800yd shot with any cal is ethical? Certainly not in my log. I’m not saying there aren’t better cartridges for the job, there always is, but it is certainly a very capable round.
Again to the op, I’d dig around in the 6.5prc archives if you’re interested in that cartridge, MUCH more info there than you will get responses to

I don’t believe I’ve ever argued the 6.5PRC isn’t capable. Just that the other options are better when talking about hunting Elk. You’re white-knighting for a cartridge. It’s a great round for PRC/steel/target use, it’s a wonderful hunting cartridge for medium game (I prefer 6.5x55/6.5CM, as noted above, but they’re all great), but there are better options for Elk and larger. That’s all I’m stating, and I am quite surprised anybody would argue that who hunts larger game with any frequency. It’s already been stated by others here, but if Elk wasn’t in the list, I’d probably be suggesting a 6.5 of some sort, as well.

 

[Schw15]

You mention range toys for 6.5prc and plinking. So yes, you are the lack there of. And who said an 800yd shot with any cal is ethical? Certainly not in my log. I’m not saying there aren’t better cartridges for the job, there always is, but it is certainly a very capable round.
Again to the op, I’d dig around in the 6.5prc archives if you’re interested in that cartridge, MUCH more info there than you will get responses to

The op said 500 to 800 yards and listed the animals he would be hunting. 6.5 are great I hunted alot with 6.5-06 ackley and 6.5-280 ackley. Did wonders on antelope deer and worked on elk but those distances I'd say the 280 ackley is better. But 800 yards on elk I'd say need a bigger 7mm or 30 cal at least.

 

[owtlaw]

In my experience the 7's from 160 grains on up will easily perform with a comparable 30. With the higher BC of the 7mm bullets, a .280 will hold its own against the smaller 300 mags. Ie win. Mag and short mags.

 

[SCGunner84]

This was from other's posts. 2800-2850fps seems very common.

Unknown Munitions loads them up to around 3010-3025 fps. Can’t remember exactly but I know it’s over 3000 out of a 26 inch barrel.

 

[Aftermath]

.280AI with 140 grain VLD's at 3250. Extremely accurate. My goto for deer. I prefer heavy 30 cal for elk.

 

[HaydenLane]

Unknown Munitions loads them up to around 3010-3025 fps. Can’t remember exactly but I know it’s over 3000 out of a 26 inch barrel.

That’s at SAAMI length, too. ~2950 from a 24” barrel should be safely achievable, and I’ve seen plenty of people claim faster speeds.

 

[BLEE]

Unknown Munitions loads them up to around 3010-3025 fps. Can’t remember exactly but I know it’s over 3000 out of a 26 inch barrel.

I saw that, but they seem to be an exception. I admit, I haven't chrono'd my 280AI. Most hand loaders, that I've read online, seem to be getting a bit less than that. I guess they have the secret sauce. Lol

 

[b6graham]

I saw that, but they seem to be an exception. I admit, I haven't chrono'd my 280AI. Most hand loaders, that I've read online, seem to be getting a bit less than that. I guess they have the secret sauce. Lol

N565/568/570 and a lot of powder

 

[BLEE]

N565/568/570 and a lot of powder

Those will get you there. I've only used N560 and it works very well.