Range Report 30-06, 208AMax, RL17

M

MontanaMarine

MGySgt, Ret.
Full Member
Minuteman
Dec 9, 2001
2,237
520
63
Canyon Ferry, MT
#1
Did some velocity/pressure checks today with subject combo. Shot two shots each at 1.0 gr increments.

Details;

Rem 700 30-06
22.5" 1/10 Douglas bbl
Win brass
208 AMax, moly'd
3.4" oal (.05" jump)
CCI 200

Reloder 17
55 gr - 2728, 2729 fps (15' from muzzle)
56 gr - 2748, 2750 fps
57 gr - 2805, 2794 fps (slight ejector flow)

In direct comparison, my regular load of 61gr RL22 yields 2720 fps.

I loaded up to 60gr, but stopped shooting at 57gr, with visible ejector flow.
IMG_1475.jpg


At the chrono, checking brass.
IMG_1486.jpg


Fired brass,
IMG_1499.jpg
 
#5
Re: 30-06, 208AMax, RL17

Looks like it does slightly beat out RL22 velocity wise. It would be nice to be able to just stock up on RL17 and be good to go for .308 and .30-06. Hell it was designed for .300 WSM so if I ever get one of those I can use 1 powder in 3 calibers.
 
#9
Re: 30-06, 208AMax, RL17

You know, looking at the primers on your 57gr loads they still look pretty rounded. Strange that ejector flow would appear before flattened primers. I've been told by another member here to be careful with this powder, it will go from showing no signs to jumping over max with a very small change sometimes.
 
#11
Re: 30-06, 208AMax, RL17

<span style="font-family: 'Courier New'">I know it takes a while to get on shelves, but do you plan to give the newest Allaint powders a shot? I would be nice to narrow the herd a bit, if you like things simple that is
grin.gif


<span style="font-weight: bold">Like everyone else said, thanks for sharing.</span>

Damn that is some beautiful scenery. Wish I was younger as I would love to be able to have that view everyday!</span>
 
#13
Re: 30-06, 208AMax, RL17

Montana,
What made you start at 55gr to do your ladder test?

I ask because you are more experienced then I and when plug your info into QL it looks like you started at about 63k psi and worked up from there.

Here's what it looks like, is our "case capacity" the same? I've got a bunch of this powder but I've been reluctant to use it because of the pressures I see in QL.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Code:</div><div class="ubbcode-body ubbcode-pre" ><pre>
Cartridge : .30-06 Spring. (SAAMI)
Bullet : .308, 208, Hornady A-MAX 30712, Friction Proofed
Useable Case Capaci: 60.413 grain H2O = 3.923 cm³
Cartridge O.A.L. L6: 3.400 inch = 86.36 mm
Barrel Length : 22.5 inch = 571.5 mm
Powder : Alliant Reloder-17

Predicted data by increasing and decreasing the given charge,
incremented in steps of 0.364% of nominal charge.
CAUTION: Figures exceed maximum and minimum recommended loads !

Step Fill. Charge Vel. Energy Pmax Pmuz Prop.Burnt B_Time
% % Grains fps ft.lbs psi psi % ms

-03.6 91 53.00 2575 3062 56268 9881 100.0 1.205 ! Near Maximum !
-03.3 91 53.20 2583 3082 56923 9899 100.0 1.199 ! Near Maximum !
-02.9 91 53.40 2592 3103 57599 9916 100.0 1.193 ! Near Maximum !
-02.5 92 53.60 2601 3123 58278 9934 100.0 1.186 ! Near Maximum !
-02.2 92 53.80 2609 3144 58961 9952 100.0 1.180 ! Near Maximum !
-01.8 92 54.00 2618 3165 59655 9970 100.0 1.174 !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!
-01.5 93 54.20 2626 3185 60357 9987 100.0 1.168 !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!
-01.1 93 54.40 2635 3206 61066 10005 100.0 1.163 !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!
-00.7 93 54.60 2643 3227 61786 10022 100.0 1.157 !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!
-00.4 94 54.80 2652 3248 62512 10039 100.0 1.151 !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!
+00.0 94 55.00 2660 3268 63247 10057 100.0 1.145 !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!
+00.4 94 55.20 2669 3289 63993 10074 100.0 1.139 !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!
+00.7 95 55.40 2677 3310 64747 10091 100.0 1.134 !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!
+01.1 95 55.60 2686 3331 65509 10108 100.0 1.128 !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!
+01.5 96 55.80 2694 3352 66281 10124 100.0 1.122 !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!
+01.8 96 56.00 2702 3373 67063 10141 100.0 1.117 !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!

Results caused by ± 10% powder lot-to-lot burning rate variation using nominal charge
Data for burning rate increased by 10% relative to nominal value:
+Ba 94 55.00 2742 3473 75622 9707 100.0 1.071 !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!
Data for burning rate decreased by 10% relative to nominal value:
-Ba 94 55.00 2534 2967 51882 10429 99.1 1.244 ! Near Maximum !
</pre></div></div>
 
#14
Re: 30-06, 208AMax, RL17

I started at 55 because I had previously worked up to 51gr in the 308/208 test, without signs of excess pressure.

I'm not sure QL calcs the RL17 curve/peak pressure with total accuracy. From my limited development in the 308 and 30-06, pressure signs that typically show up around 65K calc, don't seem to show with '17 until the calc is about 75K+.
 
#17
Re: 30-06, 208AMax, RL17

I shot some today with pretty good results.

RD Precision 30-06
25" Bartlien 1-10 twist barrel (M24 contour)

All rounds were loaded in Federal Brass with Fed210 primers

208 Amax @ 3.434 OAL

51 - 2719,2743,2761
52 - 2760,2730,2730
53 - 2796,2816,2811 (started to see light marks and was over my target max of 2800fps so I figured I'd stop here and see if I can find a sweet spot in between 52 and 53)
54
55
56

53 grains was definitely tighter, I shot the first round and the extra velocity raise point of impact 1 inch higher at 100 yards. So, I used same point of aim and fired again, now I couldn't find the impact. Then I was ticked so I quickly let the 3rd one go.... now there was another hole at about 5 O'clock 1/4 inch away. When I got to go down and check the target I saw that the first two were almost in the same hole.

cimg1588.jpg

cimg1591np.jpg
 
#19
Re: 30-06, 208AMax, RL17

Did you ever compare the accuracy between RL17 and RL22?

I've seen claims that with RL17 there is too much air in the case which results in poorer accuracy than with compressed loads. My .30-06 build is under way and I am wondering which way to go, throat long for loading to 3.5" or more for more room with RL22 or just go with standard OALs with a shorter throat to use with RL17. I figure with a 28" barrel and OALs in the 3.5-3.6" range maybe RL22 might have an edge.
 
#21
Re: 30-06, 208AMax, RL17

I too am looking to rebarrel a 30-06 and considering how long to throat the new barrel.

According to Harold Vaughn (Rifle Accuracy Facts) the experimental data confirms load density should be as close to 100% as possible to ensure better performance.

The reamer I'm currently looking at is the "Serengeti Rifles" reamer, print number 9685, that PTG has available. It is throated specifically for bullets similar to Sierra 190 grain MatchKing and might be the ticket. I have already purchased their Uni-Throater so I can add a little more throat as needed.

Shane - It would be interesting to know the COAL for a 30-06 cartridge loaded with 55gr RL17 with the base of the 208 grain AMAX bullet seated in light contact with the powder. One could then derive a good starting point for throat length...
 
#22
Re: 30-06, 208AMax, RL17

TT, it will depend somewhat on brass type, as volume can vary by about 4 grains between milsurp, and Win/Norma.

My loads were not compressed.

I'll try to work this out for you with a couple different brass types, but give me a day or two.
 
#23
Re: 30-06, 208AMax, RL17

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: MontanaMarine</div><div class="ubbcode-body">TT, it will depend somewhat on brass type, as volume can vary by about 4 grains between milsurp, and Win/Norma.

My loads were not compressed.

I'll try to work this out for you with a couple different brass types, but give me a day or two. </div></div>

Would it be correct to assume that Winchester has the most volume?

I picked up 1500 pieces of it yesterday so it will be the only brass I'll be using.
 
#28
Re: 30-06, 208AMax, RL17

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: TT</div><div class="ubbcode-body">...Shane - It would be interesting to know the COAL for a 30-06 cartridge loaded with 55gr RL17 with the base of the 208 grain AMAX bullet seated in light contact with the powder. One could then derive a good starting point for throat length...

</div></div>

Here's some load density calcs.

30-06, 208 AMax, 3.34" oal, 55gr RL17.

Load densities relative to brass volume (gr water to overflow):

68.0 gr - 102.2%
70.0 gr - 98.7%
72.0 gr - 95.4%
 
#30
Re: 30-06, 208AMax, RL17

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: MontanaMarine</div><div class="ubbcode-body"> Here's some load density calcs.

30-06, 208 AMax, 3.34" oal, 55gr RL17.

Load densities relative to brass volume (gr water to overflow):

68.0 gr - 102.2%
70.0 gr - 98.7%
72.0 gr - 95.4% </div></div>I don't understand how to read these numbers...
frown.gif
 
#31
Re: 30-06, 208AMax, RL17

Load density is just a reference to how full the case is, with the bullet seated to specified OAL.

The more volume you have to work with, the lower the load density per equal charge.

With RL17, pretty much any brass has good potential.
 
#32
Re: 30-06, 208AMax, RL17

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: MontanaMarine</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Didn't test accuracy, just laddered up over the chrono.

I expect it will be good though, based on results with RL15, RL19, and RL22. </div></div>How were the ES in comparison to these other powders? Which powder do you feel will perform the best for the heavies and this length barrel?

Basically, what is the best powder for working up a load using 208-210g bullets in Remington m700 30-06 with 22 1/2" barrel? Do you feel that is the 17?
 
#33
Re: 30-06, 208AMax, RL17

I've been using RL22 for several years. I'm not one to declare anything "best", but I'm switching over to RL17 when the '22 is used up.

With the RL17, ES was pretty good, around 30 fps. SD was probabaly around 10 fps.
 
#34
Re: 30-06, 208AMax, RL17

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: MontanaMarine</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I've been using RL22 for several years. I'm not one to declare anything "best", but I'm switching over to RL17 when the '22 is used up.

With the RL17, ES was pretty good, around 30 fps. SD was probabaly around 10 fps. </div></div>

Hi you said earlier that you had tried RL19 it should be right in the middle of the two do you have any it would be interesting to see the results of it compared to the RL17. if you are trying to use one powder for multiple rifles it does have merit just wondering if you could try the RL19 next time to compare all 3 that would cover the spectrum. Also have you tried H4350 with the 208 A Max's as that is the other powder in a close burn rate with rungs on the board for temp stability?

We have tried H4350 and H4831SC in a 30-284 with good results the 4831SC was better in the 30" match barrel though.
 
#35
Re: 30-06, 208AMax, RL17

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: MontanaMarine</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I've been using RL22 for several years. I'm not one to declare anything "best", but I'm switching over to RL17 when the '22 is used up.

With the RL17, ES was pretty good, around 30 fps. SD was probabaly around 10 fps. </div></div>Thank you sir.
 
#36
Re: 30-06, 208AMax, RL17

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Wild_Bill</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: MontanaMarine</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I've been using RL22 for several years. I'm not one to declare anything "best", but I'm switching over to RL17 when the '22 is used up.

With the RL17, ES was pretty good, around 30 fps. SD was probabaly around 10 fps. </div></div>

Hi you said earlier that you had tried RL19 it should be right in the middle of the two do you have any it would be interesting to see the results of it compared to the RL17. if you are trying to use one powder for multiple rifles it does have merit just wondering if you could try the RL19 next time to compare all 3 that would cover the spectrum. Also have you tried H4350 with the 208 A Max's as that is the other powder in a close burn rate with rungs on the board for temp stability?

We have tried H4350 and H4831SC in a 30-284 with good results the 4831SC was better in the 30" match barrel though.

</div></div>

Here is someone who used H4350 w/208s:

http://www.snipershide.com/forum/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=1442546#Post1442546
 
#37
Re: 30-06, 208AMax, RL17

Wild Bill,

I don't have any RL19 on hand. Some years back I loaded it under moly'd 190 SMKs in the 30-06. Here are some of my notes:

30-06
Norma brass
Douglas 1/10 bbl, 26"
Sierra 190 SMK Moly'd
CCI 200 primer
3.34" OAL

RL19
59.0 gr - 2680 fps
60.0 gr - 2724 fps
61.0 gr - 2773 fps
 
#38
Re: 30-06, 208AMax, RL17

So the only problem I can see is the temperature sensitivity of the R series powders. (or is this a problem?)

That being said, is there an H powder that is comparable to the RL17 in burn rate and pressure characteristics that might perform better than the RL17 in a variety of temperatures? The books I have say 4831 achieves the best velocities, but not nearly this good... Is there something better?

Thank you guys so much for doing this research!

Edit: A friend is having a hard time with 190g VLDs and RL22 in 300RUM Sendero 1:12 twist and brake. The 100yd tests are 6MOA all over the place...Would 17 help, or should he try the Retumbo or H50BMG? What would you guys do in this situation?
 
#39
Re: 30-06, 208AMax, RL17

I haven't done much comparisons of velocity in different temps.

I did do a deliberate test with my RL22 load though. At 70F it gives around 2720 fps. Same load at -20F gave right at 2620 fps. I had left rifle/ammo outside overnight in January, and tested next morning, so it was cold all the way through.
 
#40
Re: 30-06, 208AMax, RL17

OK, here we go! Picked up some 17 this morning! I should be getting a chrono soon also and I'll be ready to work up some loads using Berger 210s for now.
 
#42
Re: 30-06, 208AMax, RL17

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: MontanaMarine</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Berger 210s are great bullets. I shot a few hundred of them through my 308 and 30-06. I opted the 208 AMax just because of the price difference. </div></div>


Did you achieve similar to the 208s velocities? Same powder charges?

Thank you
 
#46
Re: 30-06, 208AMax, RL17

Good information. I have used RL 19 under 150's and 185's for a while and it is has worked out well. In WW cases anything over about 61.5gr is compressed. I am having that action trued and rebarreled and switching to Lapua brass. Looking forward to working up some new stuff. I think I am staying in the 175-185 range. I continue to have a fondness for the 30/06 and even though I distance shoot with several calibers I end up hunting most all the time with a 30/06.
 
#48
Re: 30-06, 208AMax, RL17

Tim, Sorry man, brainfart. No I haven't accuracy tested the RL17 in the 30-06. I laddered up to find pressure and that was it. Still burning the last of my RL22. I suppose I should load up some '17 and have the accuracy figured out before the '22 is gone.

I have yet to find something that my 30-06 doesn't like. I'll load some up and give them a try in the near future. I'm going to try the 55gr load at 2740 fps, that's two grains below pressure signs.
 
#49
Re: 30-06, 208AMax, RL17

Nice to see that this thread is still active, albeit not so much as the .308 one.

My .30-06 project/build is almost done. Waiting on the barrel and scope now and have ordered a custom reamer to launch the 208s @ 3.5" COAL since I will be feeding from .300 WM AICS mags (3.65 inside length). I will try 17 and 22 and see which one is faster. Maybe, just maybe 22 will win out with the extra case capacity and longer (28") barrel.
 
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