30 Rem?

Greg Langelius *

Greg Langelius *

Resident Elder Fart
Full Member
Minuteman
Aug 10, 2001
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6,037
AZ
#1
Can anyone provide feedback on this cartridge? Thinking about a smaller capacity .30 caliber cartridge that utilizes the .473" diameter boltface for FV200 match shooting; possibly with NOS 125gr BT's or SRA 135gr SMK's. Appears to have a case capacity around 45gr H2O and uses roughly 30-35gr of propellant, similar in capacity to the .30-30. Rem designed it fairly recently for use in their AR as a similar cartidge length to the .223. I think it's interesting.

Greg
 
#2
Re: 30 Rem?

If I am not mistaken, this is an older round that along with the .32 Remington and .35 Remington were developed for I think the old Remington Model 8. I seem to remember reading in a biography of Frank Hamer the Texas Ranger that put an end to Bonnie and Clyde, that his favorite carry rifle was a Remington Model 8 in .30 Remington.

I think that this case was also used in the development of the 6.8 Remington Special. I have a box of once fired 6.8 that I picked up at the range, and have given a lot of thought to a project with a case this size. I have not been able to find much other information in any of the sources that I have.
 
#4
Re: 30 Rem?

I heard that much like the 6.8 rem spc, this cartridge is a good 200-300fps slower than the factory claims. Dunno If I would jump on the boat anytime soon, there are plenty of .30 cal cartridges that do the job better..trying to stuff a .30 cal into a 2.26" mag will leave you with some compromise...terminal performance isn't what I would want to skimp on. Time will tell how it actually fares...the 6.8spc was supposedly not to be capable of exceeding 2500fps and today we have people hitting +3000fps with the right chamber and barrel specs..
 
#6
Re: 30 Rem?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Jerry M</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Don't know about the 30 cal version, but the
6mm hagar is based on the .30 Rem case. http://6mmhagar.com/index.html

Problem as I see it is making and keeping the brass in a wildcat autoloader. Unless you put out a tarp each time you fire.

Good luck

Jerry </div></div>

So this is also kind of just a necked down 6.8 SPC (itself necked down .30 Rem also, but 6.8 brass is much more available, and the Silver State Armory brass I have is very good)?

There are two other 6mm cartridges for AR's that I know of. The first is 6mm AR (necked down 6.5 Grendel). After reading this article, I'ld like to know what 6mm Hagar offers over the 6mm AR. Also, AR Performance, mostly known in the 6.8 SPC world, is working on 6mm BR/BRX in an AR-15, mainly by designing a new bolt with the correct bolt face size.
 
#7
Re: 30 Rem?

.30 Rem dates back to the early 20th Century. The .30 Rem AR is a brand new cartridge based on the .284 cartridge, with a .473" diameter base and a rebated bottom sidewall profile. Two entirely different chamberings. Loaded ammunition is only beginning to become available. For me there are two advantages to the new chambering. The case fits the boltface on my Savage short action Ghost Dancer, and the case capacity is slightly greater than the .30BR.

Greg
 
#8
Re: 30 Rem?

I am not pushing the 6mm HAGAR, only know one of the shooters that developed it. It is longer than the 6.5 Grendel or 6.8 Rem. It has been used to win some big matches at Perry and maybe Butner. Again the big problem as I see it is the time needed to make brass.

If I was going to choose another cartridge (beside 5.56) for the AR it would be one where brass is readily available.

Good luck

Jerry
 
#9
Re: 30 Rem?

I like the .30 for the same reason I used to shoot comp with the .45ACP. Bigger bullets cut more scoring lines. Actually, the Sierra Pro-Hunter.308 (30-30) 125gr HP/FN is interesting, having a profile quite a bit like a semi-wadcutter, while doubling very capably as a deer round.

Greg
 
#10
Re: 30 Rem?

Bad news...

Further research discloses that Rem arbitrarily increased the rim diameter to .492 to make it imppossible to chamber the cartridge in rifles chambered for the .450 SOCOM.

Stupid F'n Bastiches!

There goes that idea.

Never saw a company with dumber policies.

Greg
 
#11
Re: 30 Rem?

I just can't seem to put this down.

Just because Remington's got their heads up their butts about this case rim diameter thing, doesn't mean the chambering can't be used with a rim that's actually .473" diameter.

I hate it when the liability counsellors overrule common benefit in favor of covering their (IMHO) unimaginative, disinterested, and lazy butts. They'd rather arbitrarily cripple a product than take an outside chance somebody will do something dumb and institute a civil case which has no real merit. Kinda really underpins one's faith in the legal system, eh?

The problem is, despite the presence of a case that does <span style="font-style: italic">almost</span> all I need it to do, I still need to do some (sorta) wildcatting.

Does anyone have any experience with turning case rims to a smaller diameter? If I can get the reamer and get the dies, this is all I really need to have happen to allow my idea to work.

Here's my thinking.

If I can get a mandrel that fits snug into the case mouth, I can slide a case into the mandrel, then chuck the case neck/mandrel combination into the drill press, and apply some means of cutting to the rim until its diameter equals .473".

Flaws?

Greg
 
#12
Re: 30 Rem?

Greg:
How about trying a 6.5 x 47 Lapua necked up to 308? That would give you a little more charge than the 30BR with great Lapua brass, small rifle primers, and no need to turn your rims.
 
#13
Re: 30 Rem?

Thinking about this...

Dies?

I'm thinking this case will consume loads with charge weights in the high 30's or low 40's, and that's a bit more capacity than I want. If I wanted something in that load weight vicinity, I'd likely just load .308's with slower powders to get a decent load density.

No, I still think turning rims is a lot simpler.

Man, I hate it when I paint myself into corners like this.

Greg
 
#14
Re: 30 Rem?

You're going to bend the necks out of round when you're tring to cut them I think.

More successful would be to find a collet attachement for the drill press and use it to hold the cases around the body and then cut them down with a file.

Ideally you'd turn the rims down on a lathe, but if you don't have access to one it's not an option.

What about a 30-250? The 250 Savage case will hold around 35gr of powder, you can neck up 22-250's and get good brass for it. Then you keep the use of the 473 bolt face as well.
 
#15
Re: 30 Rem?

Greg:
The necked up 30x47 is essentially the 30x47 hunter benchrest cartidge (30x47HBR). This class requires a case capacity of at least 45 grains water (the volume of the 30-30). It seems to me that is exactly what you are talking about. The dies are available (by just having a 6.5x47 die bored out to 30) and so are the reamers. It is the most used cartridge for hunter class benchrest score shooting. The only difference I see is that you are wanting a boat tail bullet and I assume a little longer lead. It just seems to me an easier way to go than what you are talking about and the case capacity is nearly identical.
 
#16
Re: 30 Rem?

bohem,

wouldnt it be easier to just run a 300 savage? I dont know much about the cartridge but it seems like it would fit what Greg wants.

never mind I think its a little longer then Greg is looking for. I would hate to have to (or feel the need to) work brass like that to get something specific. But it does sound interesting.

howdy
 
#17
Re: 30 Rem?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: howdydoit</div><div class="ubbcode-body">bohem,

wouldnt it be easier to just run a 300 savage? I dont know much about the cartridge but it seems like it would fit what Greg wants.

never mind I think its a little longer then Greg is looking for. I would hate to have to (or feel the need to) work brass like that to get something specific. But it does sound interesting.

howdy </div></div>

It might be, and IIRC the 250 Savage used to be the 250-300 Savage but maybe not.

You might be able to run the 300 Savage reamer into the bore a little short to keep the case length down a little bit.

That would run to some not so fun brass prep though.
 
#18
Re: 30 Rem?

No, I'm looking for a smaller case; something around 35gr of powder, 45gr of water. The key points are, 200yd Match application, .473" diameter bolt face, minimalist .30 caliber chambering; to be built on an existing 22" 1:10" heavy .30cal barrel blank. I got thinking about this when I saw some reference to the 7.62x25. I opined that with a bit more capacity and the .473" diameter boltface, things might get to happening in a more interesting way...

Greg
 
#19
Re: 30 Rem?

The powder capacity of the 22-250 is right about what you're looking for I think. 35gr of something dense like WC760.

I was reading the PS article on the 7.62x25 based on the 25 WSSM case as well, makes for an interesting round I think. I see where you're trying to get with this, I'm trying to think along what else might work.

I have successfully used 7.62x39 in a mauser bolt without any mods to the bolt face or extractor. That case with an IMP job on it would probably do a very nice job as well.
 
#23
Re: 30 Rem?

Yes you did. Please note how long it took to have effect. This is directy proportional to the thickness of my skull. Much thanks, I finally have a real mission.

On reflection, the .300 Savage's capacity is probably still a bit big for my purposes, but as solutions go, it's the simplest, and it's certainly close enough to put to the test.

Greg
 
#24
Re: 30 Rem?

i thought it was slightly larger then what you need but with brass in abundance and dies that arent over priced it could very well work.

the case holds approximately 52.2gr of water which is more then you wanted but I coudnt find anything closer without going custom everything.



howdy
 
#25
Re: 30 Rem?

Hence my interest in the .30RAR, and my utter disappointent in Remington's meddling with an otherwise good design. Once again (still?), the lawyers are running Remington. Morons serving yet again as a shining example of corporate culture.

Greg
 
#27
Re: 30 Rem?

More thinking brings me back to something with a smaller capacity than the .300 Savage.

More research points me in the direction of the .30BR. It's got the .473 bolt face diameter and is a relatively shorty/fatty with a smaller case capacity, which is a key factor in my quest.

The more I look, the more I like it.

Greg
 
#30
Re: 30 Rem?

Boiling it all down, I was given a fairly hefty barrel blank with a .30cal bore and a not especially nice bore finish. It should finish out to about 20" length, and my goal is to get it chambered and threaded for the Savage using a chambering that's easy on powder and works with lighter-medium .30cal pills for FV200 shooting pretty exclusively. A limited cartridge for a limited application, with economy first in mind. The .30BR has a following, has been pretty seriously developed, should hold few surprises, and has the advantage of not being an out and out wildcat.

Greg
 
#31
Re: 30 Rem?

So, what exactly is the .30 RAR supposed to do that the 7.62X39 won't? Don't misunderstand me, I'm glad to see any firearms manufacturer offer something new - when it fills a need. I just don't see this cartridge doing that. Or surviving, for that matter.
 
#32
Re: 30 Rem?

More case capacity, and a .473" base diameter.

Your option is not without significant temptation, and would not be a bad option.

I have several hundred pieces of Lapua 7.62x39 brass, once fired, stored under the bench. They're left over from a now ancient project involving a Century Arms 98 Mauser converted to the chambering. Nothing on God's Green Earth, apparently, could be done to make that rifle shoot like anything but a shotgun. All that would really be needed would be a replacement bolt head for the Savage, with the proper bolt face diameter.

The more ready availability of brass (and dies , and reamers...) for the chambering is not something I dismiss lightly.

But the additional capacity of the .30BR case is also a temptation.

Once again, I'm wavering; and your post is at the core of it.

Dangit...; but thanks, too...

Greg
 
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