300 Norma Mag

[nick338]

LITZ LOADS VIHTAVUORI N565 POWDER FOR NIGHTFORCE ELR STEEL CHALLENGE WIN​

25.06.2021
Congratulations to Bryan Litz for winning the 2021 Nightforce ELR Steel Challenge. Litz outshot 200+ competitors engaging both stationary and moving steel targets ranging from 700 yards to over 1.2 miles (2,100+ yards).
Litz’s winning firearm platform consisted of a stock Barrett MRAD chambered in 300 Norma Magnum with a Nightforce 5-25x ATACR optic. 300 Norma Magnum cartridges were each hand loaded with Vihtavuori N565 High Energy Series Rifle Powder, launching an experimental 245 Grain Berger projectile 2,850-fps for the win.
Vihtavuori N565 High Energy Series Rifle Powder has immediately become the “go-to” propellant for serious competitive shooters, long range hunters, and accuracy enthusiasts using heavy bullets. The added nitroglycerin in the High Energy Series offers better energy content and increased velocity versus traditional smokeless powders. New cartridges purpose-built for long, heavy, high BC projectiles, such as 6.5 Creedmoor, 6.5 PRC, 6.8 Western, 300 PRC, and 300 Norma Magnum, benefit most from the High Energy Series with extreme accuracy, unmatched temperature stability, and lot-to-lot consistency.
After his win, Litz stated, “My component selection for the Nightforce ELR Steel Challenge was on point. Cartridges were loaded with Vihtavuori High Energy Series N565 powder behind a prototype 30 caliber 245 Grain Berger Hybrid Target projectile. Thanks to these quality components and a good plan, I was able to hit everything in sight!”

 

[nick338]

Velocity is way under what I'm getting with a 245 and N570 but the accuracy and ES must have been there.

 

[Steel head]

What was his barrel length?

 

[nick338]

What was his barrel length?

Article mentioned stock MRAD so I'm guessing 26"

 

[Steel head]

Article mentioned stock MRAD so I'm guessing 26"

Makes sense.

 

[Desert Demon]

So then a 26” 1-8 Proof barrel should be just fine for my build? I was thinking 26” might be too short to get max value out of 215/230s.
I also would like to run a can on it—so 26” would be better…

 

[nick338]

So then a 26” 1-8 Proof barrel should be just fine for my build? I was thinking 26” might be too short to get max value out of 215/230s.
I also would like to run a can on it—so 26” would be better…

If you already have that barrel-then just run with it. Realistically the 8 twist is overkill for the bullet weights you are talking about and 26" is great unless you really need to squeeze ever last ounce of velocity out of it.

I run an 8.3 twist but I'm down at sea level and will only use 245/250 gr weights, and a 26" barrel. I like to maintain some portability, leaving the 30" tubes for my buddy and his 338 AI and the designated ELR guys.

A Proof 9 twist 26" will do what you want it to.

 

[Desert Demon]

If you already have that barrel-then just run with it. Realistically the 8 twist is overkill for the bullet weights you are talking about and 26" is great unless you really need to squeeze ever last ounce of velocity out of it.

I run an 8.3 twist but I'm down at sea level and will only use 245/250 gr weights, and a 26" barrel. I like to maintain some portability, leaving the 30" tubes for my buddy and his 338 AI and the designated ELR guys.

A Proof 9 twist 26" will do what you want it to.

Is there a downside to a 1-8 twist then? I don’t have the barrel yet.

 

[Dogtown]

A lot of people run 1:8 twist .300NM barrels without problems.

 

[nick338]

Is there a downside to a 1-8 twist then? I don’t have the barrel yet.

I'm not a fan of spinning bullets any faster than I have to. If you are at a stability factor of 1.5 or greater for the worst conditions you will shoot in, there is really very little need to spin it faster. There are some theories that the extra rotation from a faster twist will get you a few more yards once the bullet goes from supersonic to transonic speeds but I'm not sure it's really worth it.

Excessive inertia from a fast twist equals high rpm's and possible bullet distortion or even worse, jacket separation after leaving the muzzle.

Just a quick calculation for the Berger 230 @3150 fps equals a bullet rpm of 283,500 with an 8 twist. That's really turning unnecessarily fast especially when at 3000 fps at a temp of 0 degrees and elevation of 0 the stability factor is 1.93.

Slow the same bullet down to 252,000 rpm's with a 9 twist under the same conditions and you still have a stability factor of 1.52 and your still maintaining the bullet's bc.

Calculate the bullets you want to shoot, in the worst conditions you will shoot in and go from there. And while a lot of people are running an 8 twist, it's important to remember that the bullets you want to shoot may not always be available and if you need to run something lighter in the Hornady line up, spinning them fast tends to turn your rifle into an airburst launcher.

 

[Desert Demon]

I would like to shoot 245 EOLs. But can’t seem to find them anywhere.
So what are the other premier long range hunting bullets I should go after?

 

[nick338]

I would like to shoot 245 EOLs. But can’t seem to find them anywhere.
So what are the other premier long range hunting bullets I should go after?

I'm probably not the best to answer this but depending on how fast your launching it and distance to impact the 225 ELD may work. Anything up close will probably just explode and not penetrate enough but at distance when the bullet slows down it's impact will be less violent and most likely penetrate further. This also depends on whether or not you're hitting bone.

The Hornady ELD-X line is also made for hunting.

 

[Dogtown]

PVA makes a line of hunting solids called Cayuga, but the .30 cal models are on the lighter side.

 

[nick338]

PVA makes a line of hunting solids called Cayuga, but the .30 cal models are on the lighter side.

Looks like they have a 210 gr. Wonder what the velocity threshold is for expansion. Although a little long for the 300 WSM I'm building.

 

[Dogtown]

Pro Tip: you don't have to quote text when the original is directly above your post.

 

[nick338]

I respond a lot from work or my phone and don't always see the "other posters have responded" alert, so I'm just making sure the response is directed to the right person.

 

[Dogtown]

I respond a lot from work or my phone and don't always see the "other posters have responded" alert, so I'm just making sure the response is directed to the right person.

Ok

 

[jbuck88]

Any chance you have pages 116 and 117?

Here ya go

 

[jbuck88]

Does anyone have any data for hornady 208gr and VV n560 or n570?

I have a AI 27" 1:8 and looking for a load with components I have on hand. I'll pick up something else when I get a chance, but I'm looking to burn up some 208gr Amax that I have sitting on the shelf.

Thanks

 

[Desert Demon]

If going with a 1:9 Proof barrel—will a carbon wrapped sendero light (or sendero) with 1.2 shank diameter hold up the chamber pressures of the 300NM?

Or is it better to go with a standard steel barrel—say #3 medium sporter?

 

[jbuck88]

Not much info I could find. So ran some n570 and 208gr amax in Norma brass.
Loaded to .020" off the lands

Slight ejector marks, but also new brass that's .006" shorter then once fired. So I'm going to give it a .002" bump and see what happens when I do some seating depth tests.

Now I'll get my excuses out if the way. The table was covered in snow and was difficult to get a solid position. I had it slip bad at 90.5gr.

 

[Desert Demon]

I’m going with a proof CF Sendero in either 24” or 26” for my build. If I am going to shoot suppressed, should I go with 24” ? Or just stick with the standard 26”. Not sure what velocity loss I would see..

 

[Dogtown]

Probably 50fps difference in velocity.

 

[Desert Demon]

What is the max COAL for anyone using Berger 245 EOLs?

I’m considering using the Hawkins Hunter mags that provide a max COAL of 3.770. I’m just not sure if this is enough or if I should stick to a CIP AICS 3.85 length.

I currently only have 220 ELD-X. But I’m looking to use the best 1000+ yard hunting bullet.

 

[nick338]

What is the max COAL for anyone using Berger 245 EOLs?

I’m considering using the Hawkins Hunter mags that provide a max COAL of 3.770. I’m just not sure if this is enough or if I should stick to a CIP AICS 3.85 length.

I currently only have 220 ELD-X. But I’m looking to use the best 1000+ yard hunting bullet.

That really depends on how your chamber is cut and where the bullet likes to be seated in relation to the lands. I'm using MDT mags and my C.O.AL with that bullet is roughly 3.75. My chamber was cut to shoot that bullet and the 250 A-tip at mag length.

 

[Desert Demon]

That really depends on how your chamber is cut and where the bullet likes to be seated in relation to the lands. I'm using MDT mags and my C.O.AL with that bullet is roughly 3.75. My chamber was cut to shoot that bullet and the 250 A-tip at mag length.

The Freebore will be .190. So I think 3.77 should be fine? (2.492” case length + .190” freebore + .833” ogive to tip).

Call me out if I’m wrong on my math please.

 

[Desert Demon]

Also, does anyone have the bullet dimensions for the 220 ELD-X? Hornady doesn’t seem to publish it like Berger.
Length is 1.63”.

Need Base to Ogive.

 

[nick338]

Per Hornady it's .855 but I'm not sure how much I trust that measurement as they also said o.a.l. is 1.53 and JBM states it as 1.63. Someone is going to need to take an actual measurement and I don't have any on hand.

 

[Desert Demon]

That really depends on how your chamber is cut and where the bullet likes to be seated in relation to the lands. I'm using MDT mags and my C.O.AL with that bullet is roughly 3.75. My chamber was cut to shoot that bullet and the 250 A-tip at mag length.

What is the freebore on that rifle?

 

[nick338]

I'll have to take some measurements. I requested the chamber to be cut based off the 250 A-Tip loaded to 3.725 which was .005 off the lands.

I was mistaken when I previously said 3.750-was thinking of max internal mag length.

 

[Desert Demon]

Thanks. I haven’t had the barrel reamed yet. The gunsmith just said freebore on his reamer was .190.

If I want to shoot, 245 EOLs, what is the ideal freebore?

 

[Earnhardt]

Doesn't the SAAMI spec show a .215" free bore?

 

[Desert Demon]

Doesn't the SAAMI spec show a .215" free bore?

I’ll admit—I don’t know how to read freebore from the SAAMI sheet.

Also, I don’t necessarily need to be within SAAMI though.

 

[Desert Demon]

Can’t find brass anywhere—sifting through the bargain bin at Bruno’s, found a bag of 20 primed Norma. They guy behind me wanted them to take the primers!

 

[nick338]

Can’t find brass anywhere—sifting through the bargain bin at Bruno’s, found a bag of 20 primed Norma. They guy behind me wanted them to take the primers!

I have 50 once fired Peterson cases including 6 loaded rds with the 250 A-tip and N570 at 3.725 c.o.a.l. I only use Lapua cases now to keep things consistent. PM me if you're interested.

 

[Desert Demon]

Has anyone has success with the 220 ELD-X or 250 A Tip with RL-50?

 

[Dogtown]

If you want to fill the case but never get pressure signs, then RL50 will work. You'll just be slinging them about 150fps slower than if you used RL33.

 

[Desert Demon]

If you want to fill the case but never get pressure signs, then RL50 will work. You'll just be slinging them about 150fps slower than if you used RL33.

Well should just shoot a 300prc st that point. Guess I’ll hold out for something that will work

 

[DDGKunia]

Hey guys, I couldn't find anyone posting info on shorter barrel magnums. So here you go! Shooting a 22 in barrel out of a srs A2. Using Lapua brass and retumbo and a 220 grain sierra. I can get to 3000 fps at 85.8 grains. But the brass is not happy. Probably only 3-5 firings.
Backed out down to 83.3 hitting 2890 with an SD of 4 and shoots .25 groups all day. I will say without a good break, I will not shoot it. Breaks are needed for this little guy.

 

[Desert Demon]

I am sure this has been asked before, but I can’t find definitive answers. Has the 250 A-Tip been proven reliable for hunting? Being that Hornady bullets are a lot more prevalent than Beger hunting rounds right now—would be great to be able to use these to take Elk at 1000yds+.

 

[moaflat]

Really liking the load development on the Berger 245 EOL and N570. Very easy to tune so far. The 87.1 gr load is right at 3000 fps.View attachment 7678223

Hi Commander what was the coal and was BR2 primer used?

 

[nick338]

Hi Commander what was the coal and was BR2 primer used?

C.O.A.L. is 3.700 and primer is Fed 215M

 

[Reload10]

Any pet loads with the 225gr eld-m and retumbo in a lapua case? Standard nm, not improved.

 

[Blkbird6]

Hi chaps, new member here. I found this thread really awesome, so thanks to everyone for their input.

I have a question to ask, has anyone got data on a 30’’ barrel in 300NM?

If I could be fussy, then I would be asking specifically to the Berger 230’s or 245’s ? But any tips would be great.

Thanks in advance.

BB

 

[Desert Demon]

So I was able to score some N565 (would have rather got 570), but is what it is. Does anyone have data on 565 and the following:
220 ELD-X
250 A-tip
245 EOL (don’t have any, but here’s to hoping)

 

[McCrazy]

Is anyone running the 198 Flatline's through their .300NM?

Sorry for the late reply but I am running the Flatlines. I never posted any load data as I never finished load development before I moved but here is the gist of it:

28" barrel with 1:8" twist
198 gr Warner Flatline
N 570 @ 90.4 grs = 3222 FPS @ 88*
Federal 215M

I still need to screw with seating depths but was dealing with Peterson brass and their short headspace so I was blowing them forward while testing powder loads.

I should have more data here within the month hopefully.

 

[jonthomps]

Anybody try the Berger 200.20X? Please share your load data.

 

[secondofangle2]

So loaded 2 rounds at 81.0 went out to the range quick. Heavy bolt lift and ejector marks. Came home dumped the pound and grabbed another pound of Retumbo different lot. Loaded 84.6 again 2 rounds to see what the f....ck was going on. I have had zero issues with this load.

Back out the the range shot the 2 rounds. 100 yard zero was back and ejected without issue. Not sure what to say but everything is back to normal.

Maybe the powder dried out. It's my latest obsession, relative humidity changes in powder.

 

[babyguppy]

Maybe the powder dried out. It's my latest obsession, relative humidity changes in powder.

hmmm,
do we need to start storing powder in a humidor?
It's been mentioned about throwing some desiccant packets in the powder to keep down moisture. How much moisture will the desiccant packets take out of the powder?
Edit - just pulled from another thread
other thread
A desiccant alone is the wrong approach regarding humidity, look at the 2-way humidor packs.

How does humidity affect powder?​

You may have heard about a relationship between humidity and bullet velocity either in a book, on a reloading forum, or from a crusty benchrest shooter right after saying they get better ES/SD&#821…

chronoplotter.com

 

[secondofangle2]

Yep I just bought a box of the 49% ones yesterday. Haven’t figured out how I’m gonna use them yet. Probably in a mason jar with the powder for a few days before a loading session with a D2 in there too