300 Norma Mag

[jugi16]

Guys had something weird happen to me today. Loaded up my usual 84.6 of Retumbo 225ELD Lapua brass which is my regular load. It was a fresh pound of powder same lot. First 2 rounds blew the primers out and hard bolt lift. I decided to pull all the bullets and recheck...yep 84.6gr that I load on my v3 auto thrower.


Carbon ring causing pressure? Will try knocking it back to 81.0 and see what happens. Never had problems with Hodgdon powders before. I'm stumped.

 

[nick338]

Guys had something weird happen to me today. Loaded up my usual 84.6 of Retumbo 225ELD Lapua brass which is my regular load. It was a fresh pound of powder same lot. First 2 rounds blew the primers out and hard bolt lift. I decided to pull all the bullets and recheck...yep 84.6gr that I load on my v3 auto thrower.


Carbon ring causing pressure? Will try knocking it back to 81.0 and see what happens. Never had problems with Hodgdon powders before. I'm stumped.

I would hate using 1lb containers of powder, you just never know what you will get in consistency but I get it if that's all you could get your hands on. Saying that, I would probably be checking velocity when working with a new container even if it is the same lot.

Also, if you don't have a borescope pick one up, there are some good ones out there very reasonably priced.

 

[Stevo3556]

Guys had something weird happen to me today. Loaded up my usual 84.6 of Retumbo 225ELD Lapua brass which is my regular load. It was a fresh pound of powder same lot. First 2 rounds blew the primers out and hard bolt lift. I decided to pull all the bullets and recheck...yep 84.6gr that I load on my v3 auto thrower.


Carbon ring causing pressure? Will try knocking it back to 81.0 and see what happens. Never had problems with Hodgdon powders before. I'm stumped.

I would say very good chance. If you read back on this thread it happened to me. Upon my 100th or 150th round all of a sudden had the firing pin punching a hole in the primer. I shot a couple factory match rounds and the same thing. Did all sorts of things trying to find the problem, I think it was a carbon ring. Never saw it but took someone’s word for it and really worked at cleaning the chamber and the problem went away.

 

[Dogtown]

Still, such a dramatic shift in burn rate between lots seems odd. It would be one thing if the 84.6gr load was already at pressure limits, but it looks to be pretty safe to me (according to QL at least). Pretty weird...

 

[robb_va]

Guys had something weird happen to me today. Loaded up my usual 84.6 of Retumbo 225ELD Lapua brass which is my regular load. It was a fresh pound of powder same lot. First 2 rounds blew the primers out and hard bolt lift. I decided to pull all the bullets and recheck...yep 84.6gr that I load on my v3 auto thrower.


Carbon ring causing pressure? Will try knocking it back to 81.0 and see what happens. Never had problems with Hodgdon powders before. I'm stumped.

Not sure how frequently you are cleaning the bore. I use N570 and I clean the powder fouling out of the bore every 50-60 shots. The fouling is generally pretty substantial after 50-60 shots.

 

[jugi16]

Yes so I decided to borescope my rifle as I have one. Nothing really stood out. Still worked some JB bore paste on the throat and rechecked pretty much the same.

Will load a few more at 81.0 throw my magneto speed on it and if I'm having problems will dump the bottle. I've shot thousands of rounds of H4350 in my 260 with various lots using the same powder charge and never had an issue. Same goes for my 308 with Varget. This is really bizzare.

 

[robb_va]

Guys had something weird happen to me today. Loaded up my usual 84.6 of Retumbo 225ELD Lapua brass which is my regular load. It was a fresh pound of powder same lot. First 2 rounds blew the primers out and hard bolt lift. I decided to pull all the bullets and recheck...yep 84.6gr that I load on my v3 auto thrower.


Carbon ring causing pressure? Will try knocking it back to 81.0 and see what happens. Never had problems with Hodgdon powders before. I'm stumped.

Yes so I decided to borescope my rifle as I have one. Nothing really stood out. Still worked some JB bore paste on the throat and rechecked pretty much the same.

Will load a few more at 81.0 throw my magneto speed on it and if I'm having problems will dump the bottle. I've shot thousands of rounds of H4350 in my 260 with various lots using the same powder charge and never had an issue. Same goes for my 308 with Varget. This is really bizzare.

How the hell did you get from 84.6 back to 81.0?

 

[nick338]

How the hell did you get from 84.6 back to 81.0?

I'm guessing he wants to start over and work the load back up.

 

[jugi16]

So loaded 2 rounds at 81.0 went out to the range quick. Heavy bolt lift and ejector marks. Came home dumped the pound and grabbed another pound of Retumbo different lot. Loaded 84.6 again 2 rounds to see what the f....ck was going on. I have had zero issues with this load.

Back out the the range shot the 2 rounds. 100 yard zero was back and ejected without issue. Not sure what to say but everything is back to normal.

 

[Dogtown]

Wow, that sucks. Call Hodgdon and give them a heads up and the lot number.

 

[robb_va]

So loaded 2 rounds at 81.0 went out to the range quick. Heavy bolt lift and ejector marks. Came home dumped the pound and grabbed another pound of Retumbo different lot. Loaded 84.6 again 2 rounds to see what the f....ck was going on. I have had zero issues with this load.

Back out the the range shot the 2 rounds. 100 yard zero was back and ejected without issue. Not sure what to say but everything is back to normal.

Did you get any chronograph data on the hot lot versus your other lot? Also, what was the lot number for the hot lot? Thanks.

 

[nick338]

Really liking the load development on the Berger 245 EOL and N570. Very easy to tune so far. The 87.1 gr load is right at 3000 fps.

 

[M77]

how are you looking with barrel life in the NM - still around the 1100-1300 mark with heavy pills ?

 

[PowPowHawg]

85.1gn N570 with the 245 EOL shot just over an inch group for me at 300yds. 35 rounds down the pipe as of a few days ago… Got it up over 3k without any signs of pressure but didn’t see what I’d like there…

 

[Donkung]

Hi guys,
This is a 3-shot group at 300 meters with Berger 230 Hybrid target, N570 (84 grain), Norma brass, and Federal 215 LRM. SD was 1,4 and ES 2. Average velocity 915 m/s. I guess this was just below 1" group and no pressure signs. I wonder if I should keep this set up or if 245 EOL could be more suitable for ELR competitions? I'm new to long range shooting as well as quite new in load development so all comments are welcome.

 

[Dogtown]

This looks great - time to shoot it further and see how it performs. I wouldn't change anything at this point.

 

[Donkung]

This looks great - time to shoot it further and see how it performs. I wouldn't change anything at this point.

Ok, thanks. I’ve had first shots hit on plates out to 1430m and hit plates out to 1650 m but missed targets beyond that, mostly due to wind but also due to lack of speed I guess. Need something that can hit plates as far as 2100m prior to next competition. I wonder if 245 gr Berger would be more or less suitable elevation vice due to extra weight? Or if A-tip is a better option?

 

[Donkung]

This looks great - time to shoot it further and see how it performs. I wouldn't change anything at this point.

 

[nick338]

Hi guys,
This is a 3-shot group at 300 meters with Berger 230 Hybrid target, N570 (84 grain), Norma brass, and Federal 215 LRM. SD was 1,4 and ES 2. Average velocity 915 m/s. I guess this was just below 1" group and no pressure signs. I wonder if I should keep this set up or if 245 EOL could be more suitable for ELR competitions? I'm new to long range shooting as well as quite new in load development so all comments are welcome.
View attachment 7689953

Looks like good ES and SD's and if it groups like that consistently than stick with that load. However, if that group is all your basing it on then you need to test it more.

Just because something looks better on paper doesn't necessarily mean it will translate to your specific rifle. I'm guilty of subscribing to the numbers game because, theoretically it should give me the best performance and I got really lucky with the 250 A-tip and 245 Berger in my rifle but I set it up specifically to shoot the heavy for caliber loads from the start, and, a better shooter with an "inferior" load could kick my ass all day long.

 

[Dogtown]

Your velocity looks fine. Just accept that 2100m is really far and well into the Luck Zone with most magnum cartridges.

 

[JB.IC]

Got a Foster FL sizer die non-busing die. Does anyone know how much it sizes the neck down (with the expander ball removed) on Peterson brass compared to a seated bullet? I might run the Foster instead of a bushing die. I don’t have any brass yet.

 

[waveslayer]

Got a Foster FL sizer die non-busing die. Does anyone know how much it sizes the neck down (with the expander ball removed) on Peterson brass compared to a seated bullet? I might run the Foster instead of a bushing die. I don’t have any brass yet.

You will need to measure it

 

[JB.IC]

You will need to measure it

Ya think……. That’s why I was asking on here. I put that I don’t have any brass yet. I was asking what others have measured. That’s how these threads work.

 

[waveslayer]

Ya think……. That’s why I was asking on here. I put that I don’t have any brass yet. I was asking what others have measured. That’s how these threads work.

Correct, but not all dies or brass are created equal. I have several dies that resize my necks to different tension, same die brand and model... same bullets I'm using and the expander is removed. That's why I said, "you'll have to measure" that's how reloading works

 

[nick338]

Played with some 245 Bergers tonight at 600 yards. Definitely like the consistency. Hopefully things will tighten up even more with fired brass.

 

[Balor]

Played with some 245 Bergers tonight at 600 yards. Definitely like the consistency. Hopefully things will tighten up even more with fired brass.View attachment 7696161View attachment 7696164

New brass and bergers, working with a known charge.

 

[jonthomps]

Berger 230H
83.5 Retumbo
Lapua brass (virgin)
FGMM215M
2904fps
SD: 11
.012 off the lands

Velocity is on a brand new 26" 9-twist heavy palma Bartlien barrel - 16rds down it. Produced 1.4" groups at 360y.

 

[waveslayer]

So to summarize which is the superior powder for the 300 Norma using the 230's , would I be correct on Retumbo, H1000 and or RL26?

Any input on which I should focus my hunt for in the way of powder. I have all 3 on hand, but use all 3 on other calibers.. robbing Peter to pay Paul

 

[Bigrederic]

So to summarize which is the superior powder for the 300 Norma using the 230's , would I be correct on Retumbo, H1000 and or RL26?

Any input on which I should focus my hunt for in the way of powder. I have all 3 on hand, but use all 3 on other calibers.. robbing Peter to pay Paul

I would say Retumbo, H1000, RL33 and IMR 8133 are all powders you can trust for 300 Norma. I am running IMR 8133 due to it being very similar to Retumbo with better availability. Or at least it did have better availability.

 

[nick338]

So to summarize which is the superior powder for the 300 Norma using the 230's , would I be correct on Retumbo, H1000 and or RL26?

Any input on which I should focus my hunt for in the way of powder. I have all 3 on hand, but use all 3 on other calibers.. robbing Peter to pay Paul

I've only used N570 with 245 Bergers and 250 A-Tips and could not be happier with the speed and accuracy. As long as I have it, I will not need to look at any other powder, unless N568 somehow reaches me.

 

[waveslayer]

I would say Retumbo, H1000, RL33 and IMR 8133 are all powders you can trust for 300 Norma. I am running IMR 8133 due to it being very similar to Retumbo with better availability. Or at least it did have better availability.

That's what I was thinking. I'm running a Warbird and 338 Norma using Retumbo, just want to ensure I have enough powder for those two as well.

 

[Rebelirons]

I’ve used RL33, H1000 and 8133. N570 is for me the winner. H1000 was really the most accurate of the 4 but N570 seems to be made for 300 Norma with heavy bullets. Others swear by other powders and that’s obvious because all rifles are different. At this point it’s what you can get and/or what works for you

 

[nick338]

I’ve used RL33, H1000 and 8133. N570 is for me the winner. H1000 was really the most accurate of the 4 but N570 seems to be made for 300 Norma with heavy bullets. Others swear by other powders and that’s obvious because all rifles are different. At this point it’s what you can get and/or what works for you

I will 2nd this. Consistently hitting 3000 fps and no pressure signs with 250 A-Tips and 245 Bergers with a 26" barrel and accuracy out to a mile has been great. Haven't even started using fireformed brass yet, so things should tighten up even more.

 

[PowPowHawg]

I’ll 3rd it!!! Just picked another jug at midway in stock Right now!

 

[waveslayer]

I’ll 3rd it!!! Just picked another jug at midway in stock Right now!

Shows all out of stock for me... I've been looking all over

 

[Rebelirons]

I know it’s tough but gotta be patient when it comes to powder (these days anyway). I waited for months and checking every day until I got lucky. My groups tightened up a bit with N570 after my Lapua brass was fire formed. Every once in a while I’ll charge a few with H1000 just to see and while they print nice groups I lose a lot in speed and see some REALLY flat primers. No pressure issues with 570. I can’t speak for everyone else but I’ll never use Norma brass with 570 ever again

 

[CHEYTAC]

Finally my 300NM can breathe

 

[nick338]

Nice score. Where did you find it?

 

[CHEYTAC]

Blue Collar reloading has some left guys , but he will not ship powder. I had to drive 3 hours to go get it

 

[waveslayer]

Blue Collar reloading has some left guys , but he will not ship powder. I had to drive 3 hours to go get it

Can I pay you to get it and ship it and how much did you pay for it

 

[CHEYTAC]

I cant ship haz mat

 

[JustBC]

Has anyone shot the Berger 208 LRs? Would be especially interested in load data for H1000.

 

[Conqueror]

Just to add a little more information, I've successfully worked up a load using Ramshot LRT. I'm using 94.9gr under a 225gr ELD-M and seeing velocities in the 3050-3100fps range with a 27" barrel, and no pressure signs. Since LRT seems easier to find these days I went ahead and bought 5lbs more. I have 1lb of Retumbo so once I use up the LRT I may try that.

 

[waveslayer]

Just to add a little more information, I've successfully worked up a load using Ramshot LRT. I'm using 94.9gr under a 225gr ELD-M and seeing velocities in the 3050-3100fps range with a 27" barrel, and no pressure signs. Since LRT seems easier to find these days I went ahead and bought 5lbs more. I have 1lb of Retumbo so once I use up the LRT I may try that.

Thanks for the report, I have seen a lot of Ramshot for sale. I may need to do that. How's the temp stability , I have done zero research on that powder

 

[Conqueror]

I haven’t done enough work in temp swings to have a strong report on that yet. Ramshot themselves do not call it a “temperature insensitive” powder which usually requires extrusion, but they say their powders generally only change 3-5% from -40F to +125F.

 

[Desert Demon]

Hi, I think I went through this entire thread before posting-so forgive if I’m this has already been answered:

Is there any data on using RL-26 for 300NM? Or is it too fast?

I am gathering parts for a new build and it is the slowest burner I have on hand. (Well I have some 4831SC still too). I’m BOLO for H1000 and Retumbo of course.

Thanks

 

[Dogtown]

Looks like it's probably too fast. Even with the 215s and a case fill % of less than 93%, it's still way up there in pressure.

N570 is my favorite powder this cartridge with a wide variety of bullets, but it's also hard to get. For Alliant powders, RL25 & RL33 are better fits.

 

[nick338]

View attachment 7765395

Looks like it's probably too fast. Even with the 215s and a case fill % of less than 93%, it's still way up there in pressure.

N570 is my favorite powder this cartridge with a wide variety of bullets, but it's also hard to get. For Alliant powders, RL25 & RL33 are better fits.

N570 is the only powder I've tried in the Norma. Wanted some speed with heavy projectiles (245-250gr) and I've had no reason to look elsewhere since. I do have some N565 that I may play with in the spring but unless it keeps my speed within ~20 fps and lowers my ES by a margin enough for me to care about, I don't think I'll be switching.

I think RL 26 and N565 are very close, and I believe it was even designed specifically for the Lapua size cases but I have only heard of it being used with heavier bullets. Vihtavuori does have load data for it on their website.

As far as how this translates to RL 26 I'm not sure but it's very close to H1000 and N565 on the burn rate chart.

 

[Dogtown]

I used N565 for a bit, but N570 is just better overall. For lighter bullets around the 190-210gr range I got good performance, but it was still on the hot side. N570 gave me better velocity and safe pressure.

 

[nick338]

I used N565 for a bit, but N570 is just better overall. For lighter bullets around the 190-210gr range I got good performance, but it was still on the hot side. N570 gave me better velocity and safe pressure.

Exactly what I was thinking but then I was scratching my head when I read that Bryan Litz used N565 and a 245 to shoot the 2021 NF challenge.