300 Norma Mag

Yea i find that federal 210's are great and actually give me lower sd/es. I will switch to magnums if its going to be really cold to ensure ignition.
I'll stick with magnums and probably switch my .308 over to them too (I think military primers are magnum). Then I can just focus on sourcing cci250/450 for my precision stuff. 250s for 300nm/.308 and 450s for 5.56. In a pinch I could even use .308 palma brass with 450s.
 
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Started to do some load testing with N570. Don't know if I want to go any higher, not really getting any pressure signs just yet, but I know it's getting close. This is 2 weekends of data. Need to play around with the seating depths next time out.
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Started to do some load testing with N570. Don't know if I want to go any higher, not really getting any pressure signs just yet, but I know it's getting close. This is 2 weekends of data. Need to play around with the seating depths next time out.
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i'd run 90.5 and call it a day
 
Just a little update on the SAC funnel. It does well if you just dump the whole charge in. Little to no bridging of N570. While it's a little expensive, I had the inserts already for the headspace/bullet comparator anyways so why not.

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That's what I'm thinking about switching to. I use cci 450s in 5.56 and the vertical is really good out to 1000 yards. I'm thinking if that tiny cartridge is okay with it, a big one should be too. If I can get some cci250s maybe I'll test them against my 215ms and post it here.
Nevermind, they are already out of stock. :oops:
 
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That's a good question and hopefully someone with more experience will comment on... I remember back when I was researching a 338 build I found enough evidence that I thought 1.35 was the way to go for it, and luckily I was building on an axsr so that was covered. I think the Sammi spec max pressure for 300 norma is higher than 338 lapua.

I will say that every 300 norma I have seen that isn't an AI has been built on a standard rem long action at 1.25.
 
I guess it's probably also worth asking what you guys think of a 1.0625" tenon.

I'm waiting on a american rifle company CDG. I assumed since they are selling a .588" bolt face that it's good to go but part of me thinks this has to be a bit more beefy.
 
I guess it's probably also worth asking what you guys think of a 1.0625" tenon.

I'm waiting on a american rifle company CDG. I assumed since they are selling a .588" bolt face that it's good to go but part of me thinks this has to be a bit more beefy.
That kind of goes hand in hand with the 1.35. You can get a 1.125 or 1.18 tenon in there.
 
Yeah, but does the 1.0625 thread tenon make the 1.35 shank a moot point?

I'm just trying to figure out if there's any reason to beef this thing up more than normal.
That I don't know, someone with more gunsmithing knowledge will have to chime in.

What I do know is some very knowledgeable people with a lot of years in action design all went with a minimum 1.125 tenon for their 338 specific actions... AI, Surgeon, Stiller, BAT Machine.

300 Norma is a necked down 338 with higher max pressure. Take that for what it's worth.

Are there tons of 300 Norma and 338 Lapua built on the standard rem 700 long action with 1.0625 tenon and 1.25 barrel? Yep.

Is it safe? Do you pressure out earlier with a 300 Norma in a 1.25 barrel with 1.0625 tenon vs 1.35 with 1.125 or 1.187?

Don't know. Personally I wanted at least a 1.125 tenon and 1.35 barrel.
 
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This is an interesting conversation, one I've thought about myself and have asked a couple of different gunsmiths on.

My personal .300NM is built off of a Defiance Deviant action. Barrel is a 1.25" shank. I do find that my specific barrel pressures out earlier than what most others report on here - I get 2950 fps with 230 hybrids out of a 29" barrel. If I go much beyond that, I will start seeing signs of pressure.

I'm not sure if that's the 1.25" shank. Or if this specific barrel is slow (this one is a Benchmark). I have another ~28-29" HH barrel for this rifle when I wear the Benchmark out.

Some gunsmiths have said the smaller shank can potentially cause pressure issues. Others didn't think that's the case. It seems like the shank issue is pretty academic at this point, but would be curious to see a real world comparison between a good sample size of 1.25" tennons and pressure and larger tennons.
 
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It's hard to know because individual barrels can vary greatly. I tend to not push my loads to max and I've had one 1.25" and one 1.35" barrel. The 28" 1.25" Bartlien was launching 230gr OTM's at 3050 FPS. The 1.35" 27" I haven't pushed, I got a load working with 220 Hybrids at 3,000 FPS and just left it there. If either one of those barrels happened to be slow or have pressure issues for any number of reasons I could be falsely blaming shank size. I'd need to burn through multiple barrels of each shank size at max loads to get a better feel if the extra 0.1" shank matters.
 
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It's hard to know because individual barrels can vary greatly. I tend to not push my loads to max and I've had one 1.25" and one 1.35" barrel. The 28" 1.25" Bartlien was launching 230gr OTM's at 3050 FPS. The 1.35" 27" I haven't pushed, I got a load working with 220 Hybrids at 3,000 FPS and just left it there. If either one of those barrels happened to be slow or have pressure issues for any number of reasons I could be falsely blaming shank size. I'd need to burn through multiple barrels of each shank size at max loads to get a better feel if the extra 0.1" shank matters.

You would definitely need a large sample size to make any sort of reasonable correlations.

A larger sample size than any one shooter will obtain on their own.
 
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If you don't have an 8.5 twist or faster don't bother with the heavies. If you do they are well worth it to shoot out to 2k. Beyond that I would probably want a 338 or larger. Inside a mile, I would take a 300 Norma with the 245 Berger over any other combination. But everyone has their opinion of what works and what doesn't so don't get too caught up in the noise.

Is the consensus that 8.5 is fast enough for the 245s and 250s, or should I look for an 8 twist?
 
I think a 1.0625 tenon thread VS 1.1250 has more to do with pressure than a barrel with 1.25 VS 1.350 shank.
I spoke to a good Smith and to Bartlien, bartliens answer was kinda odd to me but I'll take it. They said that most 30 Cal magnums are built on a 1.00"/ 1.055" thread tenon.

The Smith basically said that a R700 shouldn't be done but new actions can handle it with ease. For him the .750" bolt diamiter was a big plus when looking for an action, although I'm not sure why that matters. He had done countless builds on defiance actions.

That's enough for me anyway.
 
I spoke to a good Smith and to Bartlien, bartliens answer was kinda odd to me but I'll take it. They said that most 30 Cal magnums are built on a 1.00"/ 1.055" thread tenon.

The Smith basically said that a R700 shouldn't be done but new actions can handle it with ease. For him the .750" bolt diamiter was a big plus when looking for an action, although I'm not sure why that matters. He had done countless builds on defiance actions.

That's enough for me anyway.
750 bolt diameter leaves more meat around the case rim for the extractor and case head support(def do not recommend a 700 diameter bolt on a norma/lapua). Talk to the guys who've built a lot of Norma's or improved variants like Dallas Lane, Alex Wheeler or Ryan Pierce. They all recommend an action with 1-1/8 tenon diameters. My original Norma imp was in a Kelbly with 1-1/16 tenon. Newest build is on a Bat with 1-1/8 tenon.
 
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750 bolt diameter leaves more meat around the case rim for the extractor and case head support(def do not recommend a 700 diameter bolt on a norma/lapua). Talk to the guys who've built a lot of Norma's or improved variants like Dallas Lane, Alex Wheeler or Ryan Pierce. They all recommend an action with 1-1/8 tenon diameters. My original Norma imp was in a Kelbly with 1-1/16 tenon. Newest build is on a Bat with 1-1/8 tenon.

Agree on the .750 bolt.

I hear so much mixed things on the tennon. Some swear by a larger tennon for this cartridge, others (like @Terry Cross), build all the time on actions with 1-1/16 tennons.

How do you like the BAT? I would love to try one some day.
 
Agree on the .750 bolt.

I hear so much mixed things on the tennon. Some swear by a larger tennon for this cartridge, others (like @Terry Cross), build all the time on actions with 1-1/16 tennons.

How do you like the BAT? I would love to try one some day.
It's a bat long action igniter, basically a HR without any the fancy stuff. Integral lug, pinned rail, swappable bolt heads. Cut for 4" mag box, BnA trigger times up perfectly. Very smooth, tight tolerances. Been running a short action bat bumblebee for a few years hunting and love that thing.
 
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I built my Norma on a Terminus Zeus with a 1.20” carbonsix barrel. This was before I read anything about shank size and tenon threads. I have spoken with Joel at Terminus twice about the receiver thread size. He has no issue with running 300 Normas on the 1.0625 threads. I have not had any accuracy or pressure issues with mine. 88gr of N570 with 215’s.
 
Looks like I'm jumping into 300 norma most likely.

Question what bushing size do you guys run with lapua brass?
What dies are you running? I'm looking at the bullet central micron dies

What action are you guys running? Really would like to use my krg whiskey 3 gen 6 chassis. I know most guys are pointing me to borden bigfoot bat hr and to stay with the bigger threads on action.
 
Looks like I'm jumping into 300 norma most likely.

Question what bushing size do you guys run with lapua brass?
What dies are you running? I'm looking at the bullet central micron dies

What action are you guys running? Really would like to use my krg whiskey 3 gen 6 chassis. I know most guys are pointing me to borden bigfoot bat hr and to stay with the bigger threads on action.
If you can find a long action bat igniter, its essentially the same as an hr, big tenon and integral lug, but pin/screw rail. The bolt heads are modular on the newer bat's. Believe I'm using 336 bushing with lapua, but my brass is OLD, from one first few runs they did back in 2018. I believe a lot the newer stuff is thicker necked.
 
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Looking at bat hr and igniter. Hard to find anything in stock. Bullet central has a hr polished but only 3.5 ejector port I think the others come with 4.

Looking at terminus kratos x and kelby 338 atlas.

They seem to be the ones to drop into a rem 700 chassis
 
Looking at bat hr and igniter. Hard to find anything in stock. Bullet central has a hr polished but only 3.5 ejector port I think the others come with 4.

Looking at terminus kratos x and kelby 338 atlas.

They seem to be the ones to drop into a rem 700 chassis
I have a lightly used atlas 338 with extreme duty bolt stop. Says Piercision Rifles on the side, would make you a screaming deal on it. My first Norma imp was built on it, for the new barrel I went with the Bat.
 
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Looks like I'm jumping into 300 norma most likely.

Question what bushing size do you guys run with lapua brass?
What dies are you running? I'm looking at the bullet central micron dies

What action are you guys running? Really would like to use my krg whiskey 3 gen 6 chassis. I know most guys are pointing me to borden bigfoot bat hr and to stay with the bigger threads on action.
I’m currently using an AXMC. If I was starting today I would pick up an Impact 787.
 
Think I am going to try 300 NMI. Where is the best place to source a reamer and dies?
Wheeler is a 35° shoulder, Pierce is 33°, I've been shooting the Pierce version for 4 years. I'd personally go the Wheeler route as he isnt all proprietary with his reamer/dies. Pierce is.......and Pierce didn't even design his reamer, Bjay Gambeng did. Pierce locked it all down so it's all only available through him. I was lucky enough to get a reamer from Bjay himself, and a 33° Norma imp micron die from Bullet Central before Pierce put an end to that. However Ryan did build my first rifle and it was a hammer till N570 did it in near 1k rounds.
Another smith to consider with the NMI, is Dallas Lane of Lane Precision Rifles. He has a 35° chamber and dies that fit the brass very well(near copy of Wheeler chamber). He's chambered a few very accurate barrels for me. If you'd like to see the Wheeler and Pierce reamer prints, let me know, I have both.
 
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Wheeler is a 35° shoulder, Pierce is 33°, I've been shooting the Pierce version for 4 years. I'd personally go the Wheeler route as he isnt all proprietary with his reamer/dies. Pierce is.......and Pierce didn't even design his reamer, Bjay Gambeng did. Pierce locked it all down so it's all only available through him. I was lucky enough to get a reamer from Bjay himself, and a 33° Norma imp micron die from Bullet Central before Pierce put an end to that. However Ryan did build my first rifle and it was a hammer till N570 did it in near 1k rounds.
Another smith to consider with the NMI, is Dallas Lane of Lane Precision Rifles. He has a 35° chamber and dies that fit the brass very well(near copy of Wheeler chamber). He's chambered a few very accurate barrels for me. If you'd like to see the Wheeler and Pierce reamer prints, let me know, I have both.

Thanks, that's good info. I was trying to figure out what was going on with reamers and dies. I contacted Ryan but he said he was just doing complete rifles, and about all I could get out of Wheeler was that jgs had the reamers for his. Neither one really wanted to deal with just chambering a barrel it didn't seem. I'll contact Dallas and see what he says.
 
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Thanks, that's good info. I was trying to figure out what was going on with reamers and dies. I contacted Ryan but he said he was just doing complete rifles, and about all I could get out of Wheeler was that jgs had the reamers for his. Neither one really wanted to deal with just chambering a barrel it didn't seem. I'll contact Dallas and see what he says.
If you can get a set of dies out of Pierce, my smith has my reamer, he does excellent work. He'd gladly do a simple barrel job.
 
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Thanks, that's good info. I was trying to figure out what was going on with reamers and dies. I contacted Ryan but he said he was just doing complete rifles, and about all I could get out of Wheeler was that jgs had the reamers for his. Neither one really wanted to deal with just chambering a barrel it didn't seem. I'll contact Dallas and see what he says.
Yeah that's what I found out as well. But full of info and were great so far to tall with