What would you guys do here?
I have a 9" twist 26" standard 300nm with a solid 230 hybrid/h1000/ 2940fps load that tracks great with my kestrel past 2000 yards. I'm down to my last 150 230s and I still have 16lbs of h1000. Also the barrel is only at 236 rounds total.
I'm trying to decide between the new 220s, staying with 230s, or going up to 245s. Years ago I did test 250 A-tips up to the mid 2900s with h1000 just to see what speed I could get.
I don't always shoot super far and the rifle is more similar to a sako trg than a purpose built elr gun. I'm thinking I might just stick with 230s because it just plain works, but the 220s are probably a little better for h1000 and a little faster with the same bc.
I have a 9" twist 26" standard 300nm with a solid 230 hybrid/h1000/ 2940fps load that tracks great with my kestrel past 2000 yards. I'm down to my last 150 230s and I still have 16lbs of h1000. Also the barrel is only at 236 rounds total.
I'm trying to decide between the new 220s, staying with 230s, or going up to 245s. Years ago I did test 250 A-tips up to the mid 2900s with h1000 just to see what speed I could get.
I don't always shoot super far and the rifle is more similar to a sako trg than a purpose built elr gun. I'm thinking I might just stick with 230s because it just plain works, but the 220s are probably a little better for h1000 and a little faster with the same bc.
Depending on your altitude, 245s in the 9 isnt a sure recipe for success. I know they satabilised in my 9tw, 2950fps at 2k da in winter, summer da is usually 5-8k depending on where I'm shooting here in MT.
Shoot the same rd. But, not same powder. Use Ramshot Magnum at 3000 fps. Great accuracy. Kinda in the same boat as you. Got H1000 now, and Retumbo. So will see how it shoots now with those powders. If I don't like fps. Will stick with Ram Mag. Just for velocity. Use other for 338 LM. Really if you're happy with what you got. I would stick with it.
Most everywhere I shoot here in UT is at least 4000' altitude. Even at 0 degrees F, It would be about 1000 DA.
I may have some 230s if you wanna send me the 245s you speak of lol!
I'm in a similar place right now, down to 175 245s but have regular access to 215s, 220s, 225 ELDMs, 230 and 250 a tips. Really, everything but 245s it seems.
Yup you'll be good. My 26" barrel shot em well 2940-2960, warmer load from the improved chamber.
I haven't been able to find much of anything berger-wise. I'm just using this time waiting to decide my next move. Right now I noticed 220s everywhere. I emailed berger to ask if the 220 is replacing the 230 and they told me no. They said 230s should hit shelves in september.
I'll probably switch to 215s if I can get them to shoot, because I've got 500 of them, and hope to see 245s soonish. I'm also waiting on Lapua brass to come available again, my current brass is on its 6th firing and who knows how many firings it's got left in it.
220's ARE replacing the 230's from a performance perspective. Yes they will continue to make the 230s but they were not popular for a reason and 215's with their lower BC was/is.........That is called a Hint.
The 220 has bassicaly the same bc as the 230 but in a better form factor bullet. The 245 is still king but if you can get 220's, i would be stocking up on them before 230s or even 215s. They are a superior bullet to both.
The 220 has bassicaly the same bc as the 230 but in a better form factor bullet. The 245 is still king but if you can get 220's, i would be stocking up on them before 230s or even 215s. They are a superior bullet to both.
I've found the newer lrht to be a lil more picky than the regular hybrids and eol line for seating depth tunes. They are a good bullet. I do not like shooting factory pointed bullets at game either, that's where the 215/230 shine. Also, the recoil difference between a 230 at 3080 and a 245 at 2950, the 245 had a lot more perceived recoil, noticbaly more than my 338 rum with 300s at 2820fps. Rifle weights are similar, but the norma imp was just more punchy, and run slower lighter push. My and a few friends observations.
Tough to compare bullet weights in 2 different rifles, weight, muzzle brake etc. All things being equal with the rifles a 300 gr at 2820 should hit your shoulder harder than a 245 at 2950.
I was under the impression that the 230 ended up being more predictable through transonic vs the 215? The debate has been raging for a long time though. I talked to Frank in his class about it a couple years ago and he was convinced that the 230 hybrid was the most consistent 30cal bullet next to solids for elr.
However, I would imagine Bryan Litz applied the same strategies when developing the 220 and 245. The things older bullets always have over the new ones is track record and load data.
However, I would imagine Bryan Litz applied the same strategies when developing the 220 and 245. The things older bullets always have over the new ones is track record and load data.
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Sorry to ask, would you be able to run a QL for berger 220lrht using VV n565, 28" 8.5 twist using Fed 210m (LRP). I couldn't get 215m in canada
. When I ask berger they don't have 565 on their data and as discussed before, VVs data is way off.My own 220 LRHT N565 load from a couple years ago uses 87gr but is kind of hot. Here's what QL says....
I tried some Staball HD today and it shot pretty good.
My gun is a 300 Norma Improved so keep that in mind. I couldn’t find any data but since it’s burn rate is close to Retumbo that’s where I started.
30 in Bartlein 8 twist 5r
230 gr Atip
CCI 250
Peterson brass
83 gr. No data
84 gr. 2859 fps
84.5. 2948
85. 2959
85.5. 2958
86. 2987
86.5. 3052
87. 3023
87.5. 3025
88. 2960 ?
88.5. 3053
89. 3081
There was no pressure signs or stiff bolt with any of these loads. This was only 3 shot groups.
My gun is a 300 Norma Improved so keep that in mind. I couldn’t find any data but since it’s burn rate is close to Retumbo that’s where I started.
30 in Bartlein 8 twist 5r
230 gr Atip
CCI 250
Peterson brass
83 gr. No data
84 gr. 2859 fps
84.5. 2948
85. 2959
85.5. 2958
86. 2987
86.5. 3052
87. 3023
87.5. 3025
88. 2960 ?
88.5. 3053
89. 3081
There was no pressure signs or stiff bolt with any of these loads. This was only 3 shot groups.
Attachments
I'd repeat 84.8-85.7gr in 0.3 steps with a magnum primer, maybe work on seating depth a lil. 2950 and 3050 are pretty well known speeds for great accuracy in the Norma case with 230s. My 300nmi with 230 Bergers it was 2980 3070 that it performed well but with N570 and it makes sense the nodes a bit faster with a slower burning powder. In all honesty, 2950 VS 3050 is minimal wind difference with that high bc bullet. Drops are drops, easy to figure out, that fn wind tho.........great equalizer!
Some muzzle velocity testing with N570 and the Berger 220 LRHT.
30" Bartlein (1.25 straight)
1 in 8 tw
Fed 215m
Lapua Brass
Whidden FL sizing die with SAC .333 bushing
.003 neck tension set via mandrel
Temp 70
I started when I had 150 rounds on the barrel. I stopped well short of the published max for a 26" barrel. No pressure signs.
83.0 2969
83.3 2991
83.6 2990
83.9 3004
84.2 2998
84.5 2998
84.8 3036
85.1 3025
85.4 3025
85.7 3044
86.0 3047
86.3 3072
86.6 3085
86.9 3090
87.2 3086
87.5 3107
87.8 3118
88.1 3121
88.4 3119
88.7 3132
89.0 3163
89.3 3162
89.6 3158
89.9 3200
As I went through the rest of my load development, my barrel sped up just a bit. I settled on 85.3 .090 off the lands, which settled in at 3050 with 225 rounds on the barrel. Took 15 rounds to the range to verify zero and true my kestrel. Group was shot at 1000 yards.
Final load
Lapua Brass
Beger 220LRHT
85.3 of N570
Fed 215M
.090 off the lands
MV 3050
SD 1.68
ES 3.25
Sample size 15
30" Bartlein (1.25 straight)
1 in 8 tw
Fed 215m
Lapua Brass
Whidden FL sizing die with SAC .333 bushing
.003 neck tension set via mandrel
Temp 70
I started when I had 150 rounds on the barrel. I stopped well short of the published max for a 26" barrel. No pressure signs.
83.0 2969
83.3 2991
83.6 2990
83.9 3004
84.2 2998
84.5 2998
84.8 3036
85.1 3025
85.4 3025
85.7 3044
86.0 3047
86.3 3072
86.6 3085
86.9 3090
87.2 3086
87.5 3107
87.8 3118
88.1 3121
88.4 3119
88.7 3132
89.0 3163
89.3 3162
89.6 3158
89.9 3200
As I went through the rest of my load development, my barrel sped up just a bit. I settled on 85.3 .090 off the lands, which settled in at 3050 with 225 rounds on the barrel. Took 15 rounds to the range to verify zero and true my kestrel. Group was shot at 1000 yards.
Final load
Lapua Brass
Beger 220LRHT
85.3 of N570
Fed 215M
.090 off the lands
MV 3050
SD 1.68
ES 3.25
Sample size 15
Attachments
I just got 100 pieces of 300 NM brass, and want to fireform brass / break in this barrel. I bought some H1000 but would like to hold off on using that until I get to load development. I have a couple questions...
Is 100 rounds of 300 NM enough to let the throat settle in before starting to develop loads?
I have a bit of 7827 SSC and older 208 Amax's I'd like to use up for this. Any idea on a good starting load for this combo?
Please let me know if you would proceed differently, but I don't want to break into my 225 ELDM's and H1000 before I have to. Thanks in advance.
Is 100 rounds of 300 NM enough to let the throat settle in before starting to develop loads?
I have a bit of 7827 SSC and older 208 Amax's I'd like to use up for this. Any idea on a good starting load for this combo?
Please let me know if you would proceed differently, but I don't want to break into my 225 ELDM's and H1000 before I have to. Thanks in advance.
100 rounds should be plenty to break in that big a cartridge. 75-77gr 7827SSC with the 208 should do the trick, be around 2800-2850fps I'd think.
Do you recall what kinds of speeds you were getting when you ran 87gr of N565? I shot 86gr and I was getting 3080fps which seems too fast.
They must have just done a big run of it, because I scored some from powder valley Monday. Definitely keep eyes out for more if you're in need, seems to be filtering in.
To the N570 users, what are you guys using for funnels? Currently run a Area 419 funnel kit and it bridges really badly. Thinking of going with a SAC Modular Funnel kit since I have the headspace gauge and inserts already for them.
I use the Area419, but with big kernels like N570 I just pour slowly vs dumping into the funnel.
Ordered the SAC funnel. Hopefully it works.
Lol, or time for cleaning up the mess after you've lifted the funnel off a case where it didn't pour for the 5th time.
Only happened twice. Hence why I am looking for a better solution to this. Nothing more frustrating when your tools don't work and have to buy new tools to a problem that was unknown.Lol, or time for cleaning up the mess after you've lifted the funnel off a case where it didn't pour for the 5th time.
I've been using the Area 419 stackable drop tubes and funnel with N570 and have had zero issues.
Unless you are trickling it in slowly, I don't see how it's possible. Even others are reporting the same issue if you just dump the charge in.
Fast dump: 1 second, N570 usually bunches up, then takes 5-10 seconds of tapping to get it all down the tube
Slow dump: 2-3 seconds slower pour. Done.
Slow dump: 2-3 seconds slower pour. Done.
Anybody running regular non-match magnum primers in 300nm? I stopped using match primers in .308 and 5.56 without issues but I would hate to potentially sacrifice any consistency in 300nm due to the distance I shoot it.
That's what I'm thinking about switching to. I use cci 450s in 5.56 and the vertical is really good out to 1000 yards. I'm thinking if that tiny cartridge is okay with it, a big one should be too. If I can get some cci250s maybe I'll test them against my 215ms and post it here.
450s are awesome in so many cartridges, my from experience as well. I initially tried using CCI 200 non-magnum primers for fireforming, but it created an unnerving click-pause-bang when firing. If my supply of GM215Ms got sub-2000s, then I might do some velocity consistency testing with CCI 250s, but I'm a long way off from that.
Rebellions - Curious to hear what you encountered with Norma brass as I have fired 100 rounds of factory ammo which used Norma cases w/ 230 Berger bullets (2980 fps), I was going to reload those with 230 grain A-tips till I came across your comment. I already have a load developed with Lapua brass for the 230 grain A-tips (3065 fps). I would appreciate your thoughts
- Chris
Every time i used 570 with Norma brass the case would get stuck in the chamber. I thought it might be an extractor issue but it wasn’t. My numbers were way better and consistent with the Lapua. Again, I know others that have had luck with it. It just didn’t work well in my rifle. I did try it with H1000 and only half got stuck so?
Yea i find that federal 210's are great and actually give me lower sd/es. I will switch to magnums if its going to be really cold to ensure ignition.
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