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I'm running a 26" carbon fiber Proof Research barrel. My initial load development looks like this.
230gr Berger Hybrid
1/9 twist
CCI 250 primer
92.6grs RE33
2972 fps @ 6.1 SD
There were great nodes at this velocity and at 2880 fps. This barrel still has less than 100 rounds through it, but I needed a load to take it elk hunting. So this is it. My Proof barrels in the past have usually picked up about 120fps by the time they hit 170 to 200 rounds. So I'll rework this load after I get it broke in. I'm sure I'll be able to drop that powder charge down and still stay on that node.
230gr Berger Hybrid
1/9 twist
CCI 250 primer
92.6grs RE33
2972 fps @ 6.1 SD
There were great nodes at this velocity and at 2880 fps. This barrel still has less than 100 rounds through it, but I needed a load to take it elk hunting. So this is it. My Proof barrels in the past have usually picked up about 120fps by the time they hit 170 to 200 rounds. So I'll rework this load after I get it broke in. I'm sure I'll be able to drop that powder charge down and still stay on that node.
I am shooting the 215 Berger right now too. I am really impressed with them. I shot this group last weekend at 765 yards. Not to bad for a brand new rifle and this was my first shots fired out of it.
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did anybody get their brass from Clint? I saw his post was from June? I just got a new stock on my 300NM and heading to the range tomorrow with 210 Berger and RL-33
I dropped a nice little 5x6 bull elk with the 230gr Berger Hybrid this past Sunday. The rumors that the big Hybrid makes a pretty good hunting round are true. My bull made it 14 yards from where i hit him. Post mortem showed the bullet performed perfectly.
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Sure would love more info on this lefty rifle. That’s the chassis I wanted for my 300 Norma build, but had to go a different route since they said it couldn’t be done.
Is anybody using the hornady brass?
I've been running the norma brass but I'm tired of the donut at the bottom of the neck and I'm tired of reaming out the primer holes so I can seat the primer.
Is the hornady stuff any better about this, or do I just need to quit whining?
NNNN
I've been running the norma brass but I'm tired of the donut at the bottom of the neck and I'm tired of reaming out the primer holes so I can seat the primer.
Is the hornady stuff any better about this, or do I just need to quit whining?
NNNN
Sold it to a local Kansas City shooter. I bought it from Mile High. I'd give them a call if you're looking for a lefty AI chassis. Or there is a J. Allen lefty chassis for sale at 3rd Gen Shooters Supply.
Trentech 300 Norma Mag Improved .
Maddco 9 twist 27 inch
Trentech Taipan custom brake
85 grains of 2217 ( H1000)
CCI 250 primer
215 Berger on lands
3084 fps average
ES. = 4 fps SD = 1.4 / 5 shots .
Group is right on 0.2 for 5 shots .
This is my gunsmiths rifle , I have the same chambering in a Bartlein
9 twist , in an XLR chassis with a Terminator T4 brake . My ES was
similar but only 3 shots as I’m conserving barrel life . The Trentech
Taipan brake is much nicer to shoot than the Terminator T4 : similar
recoil reduction to the T4 with much reduced concussion / blast effect
at the shooters position .
We had issue with hang fires using the BR2 primers we had lying around .
Swapping to 250 Magnum primers eliminated the hang fires and got ES
down from the 30’s to 20 or so .
The biggest benifit to ES and group size was annealing the brass with
the AMP annealer from NZ . This annealer is fantastic : the numbers on
the Labradar ( see photo evidence ) and the group size doesn’t lie . As a
result of this test , I’m annealing every centrefire case every loading , with
the exception of my ancient Enfield which I shoot with irons .
EDIT : there is a very nice node around 89 to 91 grains , but with Norma brass
it is not usable in this application . Trentech Engineering is looking at a system
to re-size 338 Lap Mag brass to 300 Norma Improved : a lot of work but maybe
a solution to run the higher node . Really hoping Petersen Brass can help us
out soon with a better case to work with !
Maddco 9 twist 27 inch
Trentech Taipan custom brake
85 grains of 2217 ( H1000)
CCI 250 primer
215 Berger on lands
3084 fps average
ES. = 4 fps SD = 1.4 / 5 shots .
Group is right on 0.2 for 5 shots .
This is my gunsmiths rifle , I have the same chambering in a Bartlein
9 twist , in an XLR chassis with a Terminator T4 brake . My ES was
similar but only 3 shots as I’m conserving barrel life . The Trentech
Taipan brake is much nicer to shoot than the Terminator T4 : similar
recoil reduction to the T4 with much reduced concussion / blast effect
at the shooters position .
We had issue with hang fires using the BR2 primers we had lying around .
Swapping to 250 Magnum primers eliminated the hang fires and got ES
down from the 30’s to 20 or so .
The biggest benifit to ES and group size was annealing the brass with
the AMP annealer from NZ . This annealer is fantastic : the numbers on
the Labradar ( see photo evidence ) and the group size doesn’t lie . As a
result of this test , I’m annealing every centrefire case every loading , with
the exception of my ancient Enfield which I shoot with irons .
EDIT : there is a very nice node around 89 to 91 grains , but with Norma brass
it is not usable in this application . Trentech Engineering is looking at a system
to re-size 338 Lap Mag brass to 300 Norma Improved : a lot of work but maybe
a solution to run the higher node . Really hoping Petersen Brass can help us
out soon with a better case to work with !
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I just received a box of 20 from Cabelas (their last box.) my initial impressions are very positive. The rounds are packed in a box/cartridge holder similar to production Ammo allowing the box to hold the loaded rounds, a nice touch. The length of the cases was very uniform throughout the 20 and finish was nice. I ran my mic. around all and they were very uniform. The primer pockets were nice and tight, maybe a bit tighter than the Norma. I basically case sized the neck, barely changing it at all and loaded some 198 Flatlines. All loaded rounds fit in the box nicely. Overall my initial impressions are nothing but positive. I just loaded 60 using virgin Norma brass and would say it compares very favorably.
My Gunsmith just sent me an email noting my rifle has been completed and should ship this week. I have 100 of the ABM 215 and 230 as they were on sale for about the price of brass alone. Almost time for Christmas.
Well I finally got everything in and assembled my 300 NM a few weeks ago and was able to get her out over the Thanksgiving break and fire the first few rounds down range with it. After a 100 yard zero on the scope, immediately took it out to 626 yards and am happy to say it was even better than anticipated! Rifle was laser accurate and recoil was much less than expected. Rifle is honestly a ton of fun to shoot. Obviously not the cheapest round to shoot at all, but well worth the money if you ask me. Definitely eager to get some personal load data on it, but I will plug a friends ammo company and say that the Cold Zero ammo that I have for it is amazing as can be. Highly recommend it for this cartridge for sure! As far as the rifle, it was built by Texas Custom Rifles, and I must say, Travis does excellent work. Here are the specs...
1:10 twist barrel 24"
Stiller Tac 338 action, Lefty of course.
Timney trigger
Cadex Field Tactical chassis
NF ATACR 5-25x56 F1 scope
1:10 twist barrel 24"
Stiller Tac 338 action, Lefty of course.
Timney trigger
Cadex Field Tactical chassis
NF ATACR 5-25x56 F1 scope
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35 deg bjay . Shoulder starts approx 0.110 further up the case
than standard 300NM . Reamer is my gunsmiths design , ( Trentech
Engineering ) . Super accurate and great ES , just not quite
the velocity with Norma brass . Petersen brass should get us in
the high node , and add up to 100 fps .
^^ Early next year possibly , from previous posts on
this forum . Not confirmed from Petersen yet .
this forum . Not confirmed from Petersen yet .
Fantastic! Warner Tool just published load data for their flatline projectiles - including data for the 300NM! https://warner-tool.com/pages/load-data-sheets
Wondering if anyone can provide insight on the 300 NM and 225 ELDMs. The bullets are "jamming" probably close to .200 into the freebore area! I am not having an issue with the 230's. It appears that the 225s are about .0004 bigger in diameter. Here is a link to a video so you can see what I'm talking about. Kind of hard to see but instead of jamming marks that are imprints of the lands this is a ring around the entire bullet. Kind of goes against the idea of the 300 NM if the COAL is 3.475. Any thoughts?
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Run a Hornady comparator on a loaded cartridge. My guess is you are loaded that one a bit long and you are hitting the lands???
With a Hornady comparator I was at about 2.823 BTO. My COAL was at 3.595 (since theses bullets are so uniform I use COAL because there are different diameter comparators out there). I'm going to shorten the COAL to 3.475 and see what happens. I'm waiting on a print from the reamer manufacturer to see if that sheds some light on the issue.
That's great to hear. I have some coming from Mile High that should be here tomorrow.
Holy crap. This is huge. My emails to Lapua have finally paid off! I just bought a whole case of Norma brass, but I may have to order some ABM ammo just to get my hands on that sweet, sweet Lapua brass.
Waiting for a Proof TAC II 300 Norma build (24" proof bull, defiance action)...Here is some factory 215gr ammo. ABM on the left and Nexus on the right. Note the Lapua headstamp on the ABM. Also the ABM is seated out noticeably further. I'm thinking of trying the 180gr elite hunter in this case down the road...any thoughts if this is worthwhile effort?
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Im fireformig my brass to 30° for my 24" ive used eld x 212 and tried 215 hybrids.. You know its going be hard to beat them hybrids.. Heres 3 diff powder fireforming with 215
Nice build, do you have any 215 velocity data for that Proof 24" barrel and is it 9.25 twist? Interesting...any pics of the fire formed brass? Wondering if quantifiable brass life extension in this cartridge for work involved. What do you think about a 180 in this cartridge?
A little history about this build. It was 26" Proof carbon 9.25 twist with 35° reamer wasnt shooting the way i expected.and this including after forming brass neckturning retumbo h1000 rl33 7977 hybrids 215 230 eld-x 212.
So i called proof and they were nice enough to offer a FREE barrel for a possibility of a bobo barrel.. Monty from proof asked what barrel length twist i wanted BUT the deal was i have to use their prefered smith... I called the deal, if a barrel shooting like this from fireforming with single sd? You bet this will kick ass!
To answer your questions, the twist i choosed is 10 its my hunting rifle and barrel is short no sense gettinf faster twist no plan using 230s anyway i cant speed it up woth short barrel. And besides i got two rifle used same reamer one is 29.5" barrel with 9 twist ryan pierce put together as my target.. Just got it last week stull havent tried it.
Im pushing 215 3057fps with retumbo 87 gr 2975 with h1000 86gr and none of these are overpressured. Im sure with formed brass same charge will give 3100 easy after barrel settled.. 180s will fly!!
Im not fan of super fps i dont like anythinh faster than 3100 lol barrel too expensive..
3050 is my goal
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I'd be happy with those velocities and performance out of my 24" similar setup...though it 9.25 vs 10. The info from Proof for chamber is they used JGS 3818 CIP reamer with 0.215 freebore. Probably optimized for 230 but they say it's good from 208 up to 230...I'll be shooting 215 and lighter mainly.
I had Proof thread 3/4-24 muzzle vice 5/8 for Thunder Beast ultra-5 CB brake/adapter...awaiting ATF for this.
Hindsight I wish I had gone sendero vice bull (1.2") profile since this is more hunting oriented. Originally I spec'd 26" then changed to 24". The TB adapter may look a bit off without the can but not too concerned. Reloading will be inevitable down the road but leaning on A. McCourt initially for loads.
My 35° had 235 freebore works well with 215 and 230 wont pass the max oal 3.625 to work with none cip aics. Latest reamer 30° improved got 252 freebore plan was for 230s on my target 29.5" and 212 ELD-X for the hunting gun. Oal for 215 and 230 is 3.652 touching land. I load them 215 hyb 3.625 to clear aics internal and its hammer... Theres no perfect freebore for hybrids since they dont care being jump even up to .100 ive seen people doing 280-300fb with great results..
I had the bull sendero 26" 9.25twist..it was recommended for a bigger magnum.. But this 24" is a standard sendero 1.20 with 10 twist works well and noticeably lighter
My reamer is .112 for the Warner bullets, which ended up not working for me. Last night I throated it to .250 fb, and my numbers now are about identical to bjayÂ’s.
From my math, a .185 fb will put the 230 bearing surface right at neck/shoulder. With .215, youll be .030 over with the 230. The 215 hyb is is exactly .090 shorter in the bearing surface(nose and boat tail is identical), so the bearing surface will be .120 above. The norma neck is .316 long, so .196 worth of neck grabbing the bullet at “touching”. If you jump, that number will go up of course.
.250 freebore.
208 eld on the left. On the right is a 230 straddled by a 215 and 230. The seated bullets are at the touching dimension.
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AXMC magazine
Oal: 215/230 3.63””
208 3.59””
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Its PUUUUUUUURRRRRRRRFECCCCT!!!!My reamer is .112 for the Warner bullets, which ended up not working for me. Last night I throated it to .250 fb, and my numbers now are about identical to bjayÂ’s.
From my math, a .185 fb will put the 230 bearing surface right at neck/shoulder. With .215, you’ll be .030 over with the 230. The 215 hyb is is exactly .090 shorter in the bearing surface(nose and boat tail is identical), so the bearing surface will be .120 above. The norma neck is .316 long, so .196 worth of neck grabbing the bullet at “touching”. If you jump, that number will go up of course.
.250 freebore.
208 eld on the left. On the right is a 230 straddled by a 215 and 230. The seated bullets are at the touching dimension.
AXMC magazine
Oal 215/230 3.63
208 3.59
My main concern was getting the 215/230gr berger bearing surface above the neck shoulder junction. I'm having my barrel spun up at GAP and their reamer has a .215 freebore, however they didn't know where that put the bullet in relation to the neck shoulder junction. They also said I could send in some dummy rounds and they could set the freebore off that. Just eye balling it with a 230 that puts my COAL around 3.604". Sounds like I should just be able to use their reamer with the .215 freebore and be fine.
Thanks for the help bjay and supersubes.
Ash caleb from GAP also re doing my freebore for my 6.5x47 they put together for me... They also suggested me to send few dummy round on what oal i want to use and what jump from land i want from those dummy rounds
I think the 215 freebore is ok but IMO its more for 210vld and 215hyb i had 210fb once and tried 230s the tail junction is below shoulder.. When they still putting together my 6.5x47 they offered me the chance to extend freebore no charge now that i sent it back im getting charge 100.00 bcoz barrel need to be remove from action to get re troated.. If you really wanna add freebore i suggest do it NOW..
Axmc has slightly longer internal oal vs aics IMO i would do a 3.615-3620 average AOAL and ask tell GAP youll be using that OAL and you want a .020 jump from land. This will give options to use 215/230 hyb no problem and also 208/212 or even 220 hornady
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Anyone tried the 198 flatlines in 300 norma yet? Just got an axmc and thinking about a 9 twist to run the 198 just wondered if its been tried yet? Would likely run the 215 or 230 berger as a more frequent load but a 198 out of this thing at 3200 on paper looks to be outstanding for extending range out further.
The difference in freebore requirements between the Warner and the others is huge, so you won’t ideally be able to run those three bullets in the same chamber. The Warner reamer is .112 freebore, and the 215/230 needs somewhere between .215 (saami) and .300. I had zero luck with the Warner 198 in my my gun and just re-throated my barrel to accomodate the heavy jacketed bullets. My barrel is an 8 twist Bartlein. Best I could do with the Warner 198 was about 5 moa at 640 yds. Bummer, I was really hoping they’d work. I switched to 208 eld and 215 hyb just to try and diagnose the problem. Even though they were seated way down past the neck in the Warner chamber, groups dropped to sub half minute at the same distance.
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300 Norma Lapua Brass, 230 Berger LRHT
