1x fired hornady brass ran through a hornady match grade die with .334 neck bushing. I am not annealing cases at this point. In the other areas where I've asked for help on this I've been getting a lot of comments around case neck prep and powder scale performance so those are 2 areas I'm looking to address prior to continuing load development.
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300 PRC update
- Thread starter DAVETOOLEY
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1x fired hornady brass ran through a hornady match grade die with .334 neck bushing. I am not annealing cases at this point. In the other areas where I've asked for help on this I've been getting a lot of comments around case neck prep and powder scale performance so those are 2 areas I'm looking to address prior to continuing load development.
I would strongly recommend anealing. It won’t fix poor brass but it will help. Are you using any neck lube? Have you measured and sorted for capacity? Also what chrono are you using? Light activated chrono’s have a +/- of 2% typically and that’s if your set up square with it.
Just a few things to consider
Just a few things to consider
Annealing can do a few things to help ES
More consistent neck tension
More consistent case sizing
Getting those two reigned in I think is more important than perfect powder throws.
+.1 or -.1 is not a big deal at all if your in a node and your brass is squared away.
More consistent neck tension
More consistent case sizing
Getting those two reigned in I think is more important than perfect powder throws.
+.1 or -.1 is not a big deal at all if your in a node and your brass is squared away.
I think you are on the right track taking another look at neck prep and powder weight deviation. On the Hornady brass I purchased for a recent barrel break in I was surprised by the neck wall thickness, quite thick. Needing to use .336 or .337 bushing to achieve 1.5 to 2 thousandth neck tension.
Not saying that’s the cure but worth remeasuring a loaded round and rechecking. Good luck and awesome velocities with the H1000.
Owens Armory built this for me. Just picked it up. 12.6lb with scope and bipod.
Deviant action, 26” proof carbon sendero 1:10, Manners EH1A, hawkins bottom, piercision 5 port brake, ADG brass, H1000, 225 ELDM, CCI 250, 20 thou off the lands. Used 21ST century 0.307 expander. Redding dies
less than 30 rounds through the rifle. Loaded up quick ladder test.
had a node around 2815 with ES of about 19fps spreading over 0.8gr (.2 increments). Had a second node around 2865 about 25fps ES spreading over another 0.8gr (.2 increments, 77.2-78)
next time out, I’m gonna load some 5 shot groups somewhere in both those nodes to find the best.
btw, factory Hornady 212 shot a 0.29MOA GROUP but the ES and SD were terrible with factory rounds
Deviant action, 26” proof carbon sendero 1:10, Manners EH1A, hawkins bottom, piercision 5 port brake, ADG brass, H1000, 225 ELDM, CCI 250, 20 thou off the lands. Used 21ST century 0.307 expander. Redding dies
less than 30 rounds through the rifle. Loaded up quick ladder test.
had a node around 2815 with ES of about 19fps spreading over 0.8gr (.2 increments). Had a second node around 2865 about 25fps ES spreading over another 0.8gr (.2 increments, 77.2-78)
next time out, I’m gonna load some 5 shot groups somewhere in both those nodes to find the best.
btw, factory Hornady 212 shot a 0.29MOA GROUP but the ES and SD were terrible with factory rounds
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Roger that. I settled on 77.5 with similar velocities. FWIW I’m running same charge on the 220 ELDX. Almost doesn’t seem to matter what I do, the cartridge/barrel just shoots.
Eventhough I'm using ADG Brass now...for when it counts....I still load up my old Hornady brass for sighters at long range. Today I was reloading a few pieces of 10x fired brass and decided to play with my neck turner and clean up the necks...especially to see if any donuts were forming at the neck shoulder junction. Didn't notice much in the way of brass flowing to that point...however...I did have a few pieces that simply would not retain a neck sizing enough to hold any tension on a bullet. The spring back was to .3085 internal...and would not go below it with my bushing dies. I had to anneal the brass and use my smallest bushing...a .334 to get it to the proper neck tension.
Usually I can just increase the dwell time to +15 seconds or so and the brass will retain shape...I increased the dwell time to 5 mins and it still sprung back to .3085. So...it is 10x fired brass...and hasn't been annealed since firing...#4 I think. Primer pockets are still holding up on this brass though...haven't lost one since I dialed my loads down from insane to ragged edge.
Usually I can just increase the dwell time to +15 seconds or so and the brass will retain shape...I increased the dwell time to 5 mins and it still sprung back to .3085. So...it is 10x fired brass...and hasn't been annealed since firing...#4 I think. Primer pockets are still holding up on this brass though...haven't lost one since I dialed my loads down from insane to ragged edge.
So my Mausingfield action should be at the ffl’s in a couple days... I still need to order the rest of the parts. I am pretty set on a Bartlein left hand gain twist 1-10 to 1-8, 31” blank finishing at 29-30”, heavy Palma. For a chassis I am thinking the American Rifle co. Xylo. I know a lot of you go with the Manners, but with a 6 month back order, needing bottom metal, and the Xylo’s are in stock right now. I know I’ll be waiting on the barrel, but wanted opinions on the Xylo. Haven’t decided on trigger. Any thoughts or suggestions would be appreciated. I will be shooting mainly 225 elds, 230 and 250 Atips.
Anyone having issues with whidden dies and ADG brass? Everything was fine on the 2nd loading, getting .002 shoulder bump smooth ejection. Going into 3rd loading brass chambered fine after re-sizing and loading. Fired one round and it stuck in the chamber. pulled all the bullets at that charge incase it was a pressure issue. Re-sized and dropped down .5 of a grain just to make sure everything was safe. Again brass chambered without resistance and the loaded round chambered without resistance, fired the round same result, brass stuck in the chamber. I only have this batch of brass and it's all been fired twice fired. I'm hoping it's a just a die issue.
I also have a Whidden die - no issues with ADG. Though it's a custom die that I got before they came out with their stock 300 PRC dies, so that skews things a bit.
When you put a piece of brass on your bolt face so the extractor snaps over the case head,, Can you pull your piece of brass off easily without tilting the case? You should be able to pull as hard as you can straight and the case should be locked in there tight. So after you fire the round, to get your bolt to come back you are pounding it open? Or does the extractor just pull over the case rim?
You shouldn't be able to just pull the bolt back and have the case be still in the chamber without some sort of extractor issue.
Just went through this with a new lone peak. Had to send it back and they cut the channel deeper into the bolt for the extractor and now there is no way the case is not coming out. It would rip the rim off before anything else.
Just throwing out ideas..
So it is so stuck in the chamber that a chunk got taken out of the rim of the brass. When I pulled the bolt up it was very stiff and I really had to put my ton of muscle to get it that last quarter way up to unlock the bolt. Then a ton of force to pull it back, the bolt head extractor eventually bent the rim enough for it to let go of the brass. I could not get the brass out of the chamber with the bolt, it had to be pounded out with a cleaning rod, does that make sense? I don’t believe it to be an extractor issue as the first two firings the brass ran like butter and absolutely no pressure signs with this powder charge. I will get a picture of the rim of the brass here shortly.
I cleaned it with a break in procedure for the first 20 rounds then jb at 40 and 60 rounds. It only has 98 rounds on the barrel total. I’m going to pull the barrel and polish the chamber. I ordered a Redding standard full length die and I will try that. If it doesn’t fix the issue I’m going to need to send it to a smith. Sucks because she was hammering.
Got it. Yes that doesn't sound like an extractor issue at all. Just throwing out ideas as you had not specified in the post about what you had to do to get the bolt open and back.
Hey man I appreciate it, I’m looking at every angle. What’s interesting to me is that the resized brass and loaded rounds chamber with no resistance.
It would be interesting to see if you coated the cartridge with Dykem Fluid and then fired the round...then run a cleaning rod or dowel rod down the bore and gently tap out the brass.;..and see exactly where the brass is seizing up on you.
If it were me....I'd fire a round..and then run a bore cam down the barrel and get all nerdy with everything...but that is just the way I am.
If it were me....I'd fire a round..and then run a bore cam down the barrel and get all nerdy with everything...but that is just the way I am.
Yes length is .002 below max. I measured the web and its within half a thou of the sized brass, not sure how much that helps as all the brass is twice fired so basically at the same place. I'm not sure how you mean to measure head space? Do you mean the shoulder bump after the case is fired?
Just trying to see if the fired case measures as you would expect it to. So does the fired case pre bump head space length look correct compared to once you shoulder bump it. It sounds like either something in the chamber, dirt?, or for some reason there is abnormal brass expansion.
So that’s my two suspicions. Either the die is only marginally sizing the web area or perhaps there’s a slight build up in the chamber of case lube/dirt etc. I shoot in extremely sandy windy conditions. It doesn’t feel gritty chambering a round, but I’m gonna clean and polish the chamber just to rule that out. It seems like I had heard of people having similar issues with the prc cartridges and Hornady and Whidden dies so thought I would ask.
I have a set new set of Whidden Dies for 300 PRC and have had no problems. You should give them a call and discuss with them. They are great helping out. They also sell the required modified seater stem for the A Tip bullets.
My best guess is dirt in the chamber. Good luck
I had the same problem with my ADG brass, my chamber, and a whidden die.
Virgin brass in the web area to once fired expanded .004. The die basically didn't size that area at all, so on the 2nd firing it was very tight to get out. I sent a couple of pieces to whidden and hopefully they can make me a custom die that acutally sizes the web area.
Virgin brass in the web area to once fired expanded .004. The die basically didn't size that area at all, so on the 2nd firing it was very tight to get out. I sent a couple of pieces to whidden and hopefully they can make me a custom die that acutally sizes the web area.
I knew I had read something similar. I wish I would have kept a couple virgin pieces to measure. Anyway I will keep you all posted
Interesting, but you said when you resized the tight/stuck brass that it (and a loaded round) chambered properly. So it sounded like the Whidden die was resizing properly.
Just as an FYI
300 PRC SAAMI specs
Web - .5320
Chamber - .5330
My brass measurements (got as close as I could, my hands are not as steady as they used to be)
New brass - .5290
Fired Brass - .5315
Whidden resized - .5295 - .5300
Whidden die - .5295 - .5300 (measured inside of die at bottom)
Again, good luck.
Yea that’s what Why I’m going to pull the barrel and polish the chamber first. Thanks for those measurements, I will compare to what I have
Assuming that my caliper is sufficient to measure the web. I’m getting .532.5 on the stuck cases, and .531.5-.532 on the sized cases as well as the loaded cases....
I will measure the inside of the die shortly
I will measure the inside of the die shortly
I just skimmed the stick case issue but I had issues with another once and it would get stuck in the chamber.
Turned out the neck inside the chamber was extremely tight. It was a new barrel btw so it wasn’t a dirty neck.
I took a unfired loaded round and checked the neck OD. Then fired the round and the neck was expanding 0.0005-0.001”. I neck turned the brass down 0.002” and all the stuck case problems went away.
Turned out the neck inside the chamber was extremely tight. It was a new barrel btw so it wasn’t a dirty neck.
I took a unfired loaded round and checked the neck OD. Then fired the round and the neck was expanding 0.0005-0.001”. I neck turned the brass down 0.002” and all the stuck case problems went away.
I took down a 1 mile benchrest win yesterday with the 300PRC. Was going against a mix of 7mm Hulks, 300 Normas, 338 Edge, several 338 Lapua's, 6.5 CM, and even a 6mm BRA. Some great shooters and great rifles represented. If I would have done my part on Match 2 & 3...I'd have 3 wins for yesterday...making up the postponed covid matches.
It was super enjoyable...and nice to know I can put five shots on paper when it actually counts. Can't wait for the next one.
230gr A-Tip
76gr of RL-26....this load was tooo hot..started out the day at 15.8 mils to a mile...and ended the day at 14.9mils as the day heated up....and ammo was kept in the shade. Velocity climbed above an estimated 3000fps....going to play with a new load and back that down.
ADG 2x fired brass
The Mirage Monster got most...but the Super Stealthy Wind Fairy got me....0 wind at 500....0 wind at a mile.... 12mph wind through the trench at 600-800. O well...I'll put that in the mental notebook for next time.
Great day for the 300PRC....and a great test of my first comp using the ZCO 5-27 MPCT3....it made the day most enjoyable.
It was super enjoyable...and nice to know I can put five shots on paper when it actually counts. Can't wait for the next one.
230gr A-Tip
76gr of RL-26....this load was tooo hot..started out the day at 15.8 mils to a mile...and ended the day at 14.9mils as the day heated up....and ammo was kept in the shade. Velocity climbed above an estimated 3000fps....going to play with a new load and back that down.
ADG 2x fired brass
The Mirage Monster got most...but the Super Stealthy Wind Fairy got me....0 wind at 500....0 wind at a mile.... 12mph wind through the trench at 600-800. O well...I'll put that in the mental notebook for next time.
Great day for the 300PRC....and a great test of my first comp using the ZCO 5-27 MPCT3....it made the day most enjoyable.
Sorry to invade this thread. I’ve tried to ask around but haven’t gotten many responses, so I figured I’d come to the source. I’m a beginner and I’m leaning towards getting an MRAD in 300PRC to get my toes wet in ELR. However, from what I’ve found the MRAD 300 PRC barrels are only offered with a 1:8 twist. Is a 1:8 twist too fast for a 26” 300 PRC barrel running factory Hornady 225 ELD-M ammo or will I be okay?
I shoot the 225 Factory ammo with my 1:8 twist and didn't have a problem with the 100rds I sent down the barrel before switching to the 230 atips. You should be fine if you aren't pushing some crazy velocity.
Did some seating depth and primer testing @ 600. Not a lot of data but still messing around on first firing of ADG, around 70 rounds down the barrel by the end of this session.
25 off the lands fed 215m
30 off fed 215m went under 3” but got painted over by another shooter before
Cci 450 20 off top 30 off bottom
I’m sure some of the horizontal is me, some may be wind I’m hoping some is seating depth since both seemed to tighten up some horizontally with the seating depth change. Need to go out again ASAP and see how this repeats.
rifle is shooting very well IMO for a 10 pound loaded hunting rifle
2900fps 21” barrel 215 hybrid rl26 90 degrees ambient temp
25 off the lands fed 215m
30 off fed 215m went under 3” but got painted over by another shooter before
Cci 450 20 off top 30 off bottom
I’m sure some of the horizontal is me, some may be wind I’m hoping some is seating depth since both seemed to tighten up some horizontally with the seating depth change. Need to go out again ASAP and see how this repeats.
rifle is shooting very well IMO for a 10 pound loaded hunting rifle
2900fps 21” barrel 215 hybrid rl26 90 degrees ambient temp
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I called
I’m going to order a 26 inch medium barrel from Bartlein and I asked and they said 8.5 twist would be best for 245 Berger’s . They also said there would be no point in having twist gain. I’m currently working up a load with an 8 twist and seems fine so far but maybe room for more speed. Won’t know till it I swap it out next year
A little late but I took my 300 PRC build out to the NF ELR Match in Wyoming. The main reason why the gun was built.
230 ATIPs were pushing 2870fps with 74.2 gr of RL26. DA of 10000 feet only needed 15 (ish) mils to get to 1920yards. Gun shot great, shooter could use some practice on wind call ended up placing 25th overall. This load was supersonic all the way out to 2000 yards at this attitude.
One my buddies placed 15th shooting factory 225 ELDM 300 PRC ammo out of his AXMC with a custom barrel.
Overall I think this is a perfect round for the 1000-2000 yard game, and even beyond. Ran great in my Origin LA with an MDT ACC chassis.
230 ATIPs were pushing 2870fps with 74.2 gr of RL26. DA of 10000 feet only needed 15 (ish) mils to get to 1920yards. Gun shot great, shooter could use some practice on wind call ended up placing 25th overall. This load was supersonic all the way out to 2000 yards at this attitude.
One my buddies placed 15th shooting factory 225 ELDM 300 PRC ammo out of his AXMC with a custom barrel.
Overall I think this is a perfect round for the 1000-2000 yard game, and even beyond. Ran great in my Origin LA with an MDT ACC chassis.
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Today I tested some 250gr A-Tips. Looks like I'm good to go for next months 1 mile match at TVP. OAL is sitting at 3.8905. Using Vihtavuori N565. Getting a muzzle velocity centered on 2800fps with an ES of less than 10. The last match...my wind...right to left was amazing with the 230gr A-Tips...but my vertical was 23". Give an inch or two for shooter error...but it boils down to difference in muzzle velocity from shot to shot....I'm hoping...raising the BC....raising the weight....and much more attention to detail in neck tension, seating depth....last rounds were loaded to fit in a CIP length magazine...but this contest requires single feed....so I can go much longer....thus trying the 250's.
I tried to be as precise as I could with my powder charges....however....my autotrickler V3 isn't here yet....still using a charge master.....can't wait to have much more precise measuring. My goal is to simply have 5 on target and have a scoreable target. It sounds so easy to go 5 out of 5 at 1 mile with a 42" square target......until you get off your ass and push away from the keyboard and actually go do it for real....on the clock...for record...with everyone watching.
It sure would be nice to walk away with another match win....but I think I got lucky last time. The 300PRC though.....continues to impress. It can take an average shooter...and make him/her look like they know what they are doing.
I tried to be as precise as I could with my powder charges....however....my autotrickler V3 isn't here yet....still using a charge master.....can't wait to have much more precise measuring. My goal is to simply have 5 on target and have a scoreable target. It sounds so easy to go 5 out of 5 at 1 mile with a 42" square target......until you get off your ass and push away from the keyboard and actually go do it for real....on the clock...for record...with everyone watching.
It sure would be nice to walk away with another match win....but I think I got lucky last time. The 300PRC though.....continues to impress. It can take an average shooter...and make him/her look like they know what they are doing.
28" 1:9 Bartlein.....with ADG brass....I've pushed the 250's over 3000fps...but that was a little stupid of me....I may find a load at 2850 or so...but I think my loads at 2900+ fps are just too rough on the brass.
My 230gr loads are super happy at 2950fps though....I'm taking some of them along soon to test head to head with the 250's at 1 mile....to test them at the same range on the same day...in the same conditions.
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