300gr VLD Hybrid@ 1700M

[mouse07410]

Re: 300gr VLD Hybrid@ 1700M

cali_tz, why not compare Shooter with QTU on the same atmospherics to see how much they differ and which way to discern the trend, and then compare Shooter's predictions for real weather with your dope?

 

[cali_tz]

Re: 300gr VLD Hybrid@ 1700M

Mouse, will do. I am heading to long distance ranges in the next couple of weeks and will undertake to do this more scientifically. I will have a Kestrel by that time, with me. I'll publish my findings.

 

[verdugo60]

Re: 300gr VLD Hybrid@ 1700M

Hey guys, great shooting. I am curious about the difference between the 300 SMK and the Berger VLD's. The 300 SMK is pooping out at around 2000 yds in my Edge @2850 FPS. I was hoping the Bergers might get me a few hundred extra yards past 2000(I need to get more comeups too!)

 

[Broz]

Re: 300gr VLD Hybrid@ 1700M

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: verdugo60</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Hey guys, great shooting. I am curious about the difference between the 300 SMK and the Berger VLD's. The 300 SMK is pooping out at around 2000 yds in my Edge @2850 FPS. I was hoping the Bergers might get me a few hundred extra yards past 2000(I need to get more comeups too!) </div></div>

My testing has shown the 300 Berger OTM to pass through the subsonic transition a lot better than the 300 SMK. I feel reasonable accuracy can still be obtained after subsonic with this bullet from my 338 LM @ 2800 MV.

Jeff

 

[verdugo60]

Re: 300gr VLD Hybrid@ 1700M

That seems to be the issue with SMK's across the board. Not so good in transonic or subsonic flight, but supersonic they are awesome. I have really loved the 300 smk's performance, between 100-2000 yds. Guess it's just in our nature to always want just a little more! I have heard that some of the older, lathe turned bullets like the LRB and Hooker Tactical would remain stable long into subsonic flight, so if the Berger VLD's are doing it, good for them. Might be worth playing around with.

 

[ctressler]

Re: 300gr VLD Hybrid@ 1700M

Very nice, a good example of what seating depth can do for group tightness.

As a side note, you should be ashamed of yourself for using metric units within the state of Montana. (jk)

 

[mram10]

Re: 300gr VLD Hybrid@ 1700M

Great shooting. Can you put on a sweater so we don't feel bad about ourselves!

 

[psinclair]

Re: 300gr VLD Hybrid@ 1700M

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: ctressler</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Very nice, a good example of what seating depth can do for group tightness.

As a side note, you should be ashamed of yourself for using metric units within the state of Montana. (jk) </div></div>

I'm only 40 or so air miles from Canada......grin!

 

[ctressler]

Re: 300gr VLD Hybrid@ 1700M

Can you tell me about that leather you have placed on the cheekpiece? I've seen it on a couple of rifles and really like the idea, is it a kit?

 

[CanSniper]

Re: 300gr VLD Hybrid@ 1700M

PGS, Nice Shooting! I am currently working on a load for my lapua, using H1000 and the bergers, and after seeing this post i tried the same seating depth test you did with similar results (only not as good). Do you think that it would be worth my time to try seating deeper.

 

[godofwar]

Re: 300gr VLD Hybrid@ 1700M

PGS, I am using the h1000 for my Sako TRG 42, rebarreled with a Border 27,25" 1/10 twist.
The H1000 can push a Lapua Scenar 300 grains bullet at 880 m/s with no signs of pressure and the accuracy on the paper is great but the Sd is very hight.... for example, a string of five shot:

93 grains of h1000 + LS 300 grains

2888.59 fps
2858.40
2888.0
2850.37
2871.53

My Cronograph is a PVM -08

I don't understand why... can you help me?

 

[CanSniper]

Re: 300gr VLD Hybrid@ 1700M

My ES and SD is high also, thats why i was woundering about seating depth. Maybe why my groups open at longer distance??

 

[JTG]

Re: 300gr VLD Hybrid@ 1700M

Yesterday I went out w/ a friend load testing a 408 cheytac, my cold bore was 1038 yards, then I had a first round hit at 1516 yards, at 1945 yards I used 3 rounds But I was able to make my longest shot at 2615 yards in a 7 mph 1/3 value wind on my 4th shot. Great Humour.. my ballistic calculator only shoots to 2000 yards so I walked into the target. We are going out Wednesday to get better data. Bergers are the stuff., at least for me, love sierras and scenars But Bergers are the ---t.load them long.

 

[wadcutter]

Re: 300gr VLD Hybrid@ 1700M

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: JTG</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Yesterday I went out w/ a friend load testing a 408 cheytac, my cold bore was 1038 yards, then I had a first round hit at 1516 yards, at 1945 yards I used 3 rounds But I was able to make my longest shot at 2615 yards in a 7 mph 1/3 value wind on my 4th shot. Great Humour.. my ballistic calculator only shoots to 2000 yards so I walked into the target. We are going out Wednesday to get better data. Bergers are the stuff., at least for me, love sierras and scenars But Bergers are the ---t.load them long. </div></div>
Good shooting tex,
If your program is Exbal you can set it up to go beyond 2000 if you start the display at 1000 or so. Or increase the space betweem distances like 100 yards etc.

 

[mouse07410]

Re: 300gr VLD Hybrid@ 1700M

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: JTG</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Yesterday I went out w/ a friend load testing a 408 cheytac, my cold bore was 1038 yards, then I had a first round hit at 1516 yards, at 1945 yards I used 3 rounds But I was able to make my longest shot at 2615 yards in a 7 mph 1/3 value wind on my 4th shot...</div></div>
Could you please confirm that your friend was testing his 408 CT, and you were shooting your 338 Lapua with 300gr Berger Hybrids? Also, what was the target size?

And great shooting - I envy you!

 

[JTG]

Re: 300gr VLD Hybrid@ 1700M

Yes friend was shooting 408CT, 1038 & 1516 where IPSC, 1945 is a 36" soft disc, 2615 is a 48"x36" hanger. 4th shot was in the 10 ring, it had tumbled. Soft steel always allows for a good idea how the round impacts and blisters the paint enough to see the impact w/ the scope at shooting platform. Heading back up wed ( now that I have dope ) to increase hit ratio. High desert is beautiful this time of year. Yes Bergers, for me, w/ out them I couldn't hit past1800 w/ any confidence.

 

[mouse07410]

Re: 300gr VLD Hybrid@ 1700M

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: JTG</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Yes friend was shooting 408CT, 1038 & 1516 where IPSC, 1945 is a 36" soft disc, 2615 is a 48"x36" hanger. 4th shot was in the 10 ring, it had tumbled. Soft steel always allows for a good idea how the round impacts and blisters the paint enough to see the impact w/ the scope at shooting platform. Heading back up wed ( now that I have dope ) to increase hit ratio. High desert is beautiful this time of year. Yes Bergers, for me, w/ out them I couldn't hit past1800 w/ any confidence. </div></div>
Great! For me of course it was far more interesting to know that you reached to 2600+ yards with 338 Lapua using Berger 300gr bullets than to hear anything about 408CT. Enjoy the high desert! And hope you'll improve your scores and post here more details!

Oh, one thing more: what your 338LM barrel twist? 1:10"?

 

[JTG]

Re: 300gr VLD Hybrid@ 1700M

I have two , a krieger and a bartlien, both w/ a 1:9.3 twist.

 

[mouse07410]

Re: 300gr VLD Hybrid@ 1700M

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: JTG</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I have two , a krieger and a bartlien, both w/ a 1:9.3 twist. </div></div>
Oops! Mine is Lothar Walther 1:10 twist. I've seen a report from somebody here that 1:9.4" stabilized 300gr SMK for him across the transonic region, while 1:10" did not do that for his friend with the same bullet.

I guess I'll have to arrange for a second barrel in 338, with 1:9.3" twist.

Looking forward for your reports, and would like to see your dope posted here (including Muzzle Velocity and zeroing data, if you could). I want to test some ballistic calculators with it, to see how close they'd come to the real dope.

Tnx!

 

[mouse07410]

Re: 300gr VLD Hybrid@ 1700M

@JTG, You were planning to go for a shoot last Wednesday and share your results & dope? I'm eager to hear how it turned out.

 

[JTG]

Re: 300gr VLD Hybrid@ 1700M

Mouse sorry about the late response,
I did shoot wednesday at 2615 just to check it out .

Shot 10 rounds , had a 2nd round hit.. It started to pour rain so I came back Friday .

Friday almost same results, 15 shots fired only hit it twice.

Both times I had a fairly nice group 3 clicks low from center of target at 6 oclock.
Friday conditions where
t 82, h 25.2, bp 27.1 shooting at 314 degrees bright and clear ws rose and fell from 3-8 mph from 6:00 to 12:00 basically.

my round is 300 grn berger moving 2757 .. 92.5 retumbo seated long.

S&B w/ 100 yard zero has 25 milrads elevation, I back it down to 24.5 and dial down 10 power and hold 10.5 for a total of 35 total. I'd group at base of target so I'd hold another 5 click increments, got to 12 total hold for a total of 36.5 but still couldn't get more distance. 3 rounds impacted over target , when I was at 11.5 hold over.

Each click was 9.4 " approx. I have a 30 moa base.

I Think my round petered out , wed the bullet keyholed but friday both rounds impacted meplat first.

I think I will try another time and find a decent group at 100 w/ a velocity around 2850 - 2950 ? I have a 45 moa scope mount that I can mount to the 30 moa base and have an approximate 1650 zero which will allow me to me in the sweet zone of my glass at Full power. That is and was my biggest challenge having to back down my Power.

B Litz said my round is going thru trans sonic around 2015, all this isn't ideal but it's fun to push.

I've got the space.

 

[mouse07410]

Re: 300gr VLD Hybrid@ 1700M

Wow!!

Thanks for sharing - it will help me, and quite a few others.

JBM says that in your atmospherics, for 2600 yards (around 2400m) one would need somewhere from 37mRad to 38mRad total elevation adjustment (based on 100 yd = 91m zero) depending on whether the wind was in the face (increasing the drop by increasing the time of flight) or from the back... So you're ahead of the game by managing to touch it with 35.5 to 36.5mRad...

I use 40 MOA base with Vortex Razor HD. It gives me 30.5mRad of elevation range/control from 96m zero with 308 Win. I need to re-zero for 338LM (expect very little difference in the elevation control/range available). Based on these calculations, I'd need to hold over a similar amount...

Your bullets are better stabilized than I can expect with mine because of the faster twist (your 1:9.3" vs my 1:10")... And you gain some performance being so high up - I'd run out of Mach 200-300m before you do, and run out of elevation at distances around 2300m (holding at the very last hash mark), or around 2200m leaving some breathing space on the scope...

<span style="font-style: italic">Of course that much of an open space I can see here only over the ocean

, but that's besides the point. And perhaps I can visit your range some day...

</span>

 

[dunes450r]

Re: 300gr VLD Hybrid@ 1700M

wow, nice shootin

 

[Chad Ryan]

Re: 300gr VLD Hybrid@ 1700M

Have you ever tried the cutting edge bullets, the lathe turned projectiles ? Or are you just a berger man. just curiouse.

 

[BGE541]

Re: 300gr VLD Hybrid@ 1700M

Looks good!

 

[JTG]

Re: 300gr VLD Hybrid@ 1700M

Hey guys forgive me, I mis quoted Mr B Litz on the post I wrote Nov 10th, I wrote that the bullet was going sub sonic around 2015 when I was meant to type 2105.

Cryan thanks for the suggestion, I bought some edge bullets but they're 350 grnrs for my 375 , I will end up ordering a box to give them a run.

I'll pm you once I do.

 

[joediesel81]

Re: 300gr VLD Hybrid@ 1700M

nice!

 

[paul2atlo8]

Re: 300gr VLD Hybrid@ 1700M

JTG, thanks for the info.

 

[psinclair]

Re: 300gr VLD Hybrid@ 1700M

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: godofwar</div><div class="ubbcode-body">PGS, I am using the h1000 for my Sako TRG 42, rebarreled with a Border 27,25" 1/10 twist.
The H1000 can push a Lapua Scenar 300 grains bullet at 880 m/s with no signs of pressure and the accuracy on the paper is great but the Sd is very hight.... for example, a string of five shot:

93 grains of h1000 + LS 300 grains

2888.59 fps
2858.40
2888.0
2850.37
2871.53

My Cronograph is a PVM -08

I don't understand why... can you help me? </div></div>

Sorry for the late reply...

Take it out see how it shoots way out there....sometimes velocity readings through a chronograph aren't spot on. I seldom, if ever use my chronograph anymore.

 

[garrettjusmc]

Re: 300gr VLD Hybrid@ 1700M

Working on getting my loads dialed for my TRG right now. This forum has been extremely helpful and insightful! Thanks!

 

[Hoverp]

Re: 300gr VLD Hybrid@ 1700M

For those guys with the Savage 110FCP H&S precision, did they design the the chamber around the 300 SMK, as far as throat and Lead. Since they are using the 3.850 max COAL AI magazines , if I loaded mag length say , how far off the lands is this putting you with the Bergers Hybrids compared to the SMK?


Thanks

 

[michael_aos]

Re: 300gr VLD Hybrid@ 1700M

I believe the 3.850" number refers to the outside-dimensions of the magazine. 3.775" is probably closer to what you can actually fit inside the magazine. And even that would be tight.

I would say in my Savage 110BA, the Berger 300gr hits the lands around 3.835"
--

 

[maccrazy2]

Re: 300gr VLD Hybrid@ 1700M

Has anyone done some incremential distance shooting to see how far it takes for the 300 bergers to "go to sleep"

Other thought is about seating depth. With the long bearing surface of these bullets wouldent seating depth be less critical.

 

[Enough Said]

Re: 300gr VLD Hybrid@ 1700M

Great thread.

Anyone else here secretly hoping the original poster has an "ugly" woman, just so that there's something not-so-perfect in his life... ?!

Great info and great shooting, fellas. We're in the rotten snow/deep mud transition period of winter to summer here in AK and I can't wait to get out.

 

[C23]

Re: 300gr VLD Hybrid@ 1700M

Thanks for sharing.

I ran into OAL problems with the .338 Lapua as well, that's what made me go to the .338 NM.

Best Regards

 

[Sendero_Man]

Re: 300gr VLD Hybrid@ 1700M

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Enough Said</div><div class="ubbcode-body">
Anyone else here secretly hoping the original poster has an "ugly" woman, just so that there's something not-so-perfect in his life... ?!

</div></div>

Got to rain on your parade partner... she is good looking, knows how to shoot and hunts to boot !

 

[Enough Said]

Re: 300gr VLD Hybrid@ 1700M

Dammit!

 

[Jeff Given]

Re: 300gr VLD Hybrid@ 1700M

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Enough Said</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Great thread.

Anyone else here secretly hoping the original poster has an "ugly" woman, just so that there's something not-so-perfect in his life... ?!

Great info and great shooting, fellas. We're in the rotten snow/deep mud transition period of winter to summer here in AK and I can't wait to get out.</div></div>

LMAO

 

[JL]

Re: 300gr VLD Hybrid@ 1700M

Which version QTU you are using? I think latest has it, will check.
Edit: oh you are using Lapua's free version. I got full.

About radar Cd vs G7, I have solved G7 "inaccuracy" by making several cartridge profiles in Android Shooter. I named profiles "250 Lockbase under 1200m" and so forth. I just pick one depending how far tgt is.

About 300gr and MV: (Lapua Mag)
2920fps can be done without excessive pressures with 28" barrel/ Vihtavuori N570.

N570 / 32" LW barrel / 10" twist 3100+ can be also be done but even Lapua brass tends to be trash after first bang. Also 300gr Scenar construction is in its absolute limit at that speed.

BTW about solids and ER shooting, good friend used to shoot 235gr GS customs MV around +3450fps (N570). They were damn accurace and flied flat, but accuracy went badly south somewhere around 1200meters. I guess due to dynamic stability issues. 10" twist.

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: cali_tz</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I agree Mouse that QTU should be more accurate. And like I said, I need to drill down on this more. So far, and this is very limited data set, for shooting out at 1600 yards, Shooter was very close with about 5 steps of G7 BCs. And Lapua QTU seemed like it was about 1MOA off from where Shooter predicted. But I am having a hard time getting all the atmospheric data sorted out, because unlike Shooter, QTU will not allow rifle zero conditions to be different than current shooting conditions. This really sucks, because it means you have to effectively zero the rifle again during each shooting session. So struggling to get apple to apple comparisons could cause QTU and Shooter not to agree.


<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: mouse07410</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: cali_tz</div><div class="ubbcode-body">
On the Lapua QTU app, there is a complete (almost continuous) drag function covering below, above and transonic speeds, and it doesn't seem noticeably more accurate... Shooter and QTU seem to agree pretty closely. I need to spend more time sifting thru apple to apple comparisons to see. But presumably the Lapua QTU should provide best possible data for Lapua bullets, given they supply these radar measured drag curves.</div></div>
To me hearing that Lapua QTU isn't noticeably more accurate despite using direct drag data obtained from radar measurements is very shocking, to say the least. </div></div> </div></div>

 

[hooksz86]

Re: 300gr VLD Hybrid@ 1700M

Nice shooting man. Your doing a dam good job there. My next 338 will be a single bolt for the same resons you said above. The wife for sure thinks the 110 BA is good rite now though.lol and it is. It seems like we just always want a little more.

 

[jasonahull]

Re: 300gr VLD Hybrid@ 1700M

This thread is great.
I have some test loads ready to go.
I cant wait to get out and shoot.
Thanks for sharing your info.

 

[Cmonroe]

Re: 300gr VLD Hybrid@ 1700M

I know it's funny that they do seem to jump well, so well in fact I shot them at COAL out of the TRG for it's best group which is very similar to your best group. Very forgiving for a Berger and crazy down range performance too, what more can we expect. I think this is the best Berger yet.

 

[USAFM6]

Re: 300gr VLD Hybrid@ 1700M

OP, like your Leica Vector's. I used the Leica Viper in the AF and they are amazing. One day I'd like a pair of Vectors and will keep watching for a used pair.

Just purchased a Savage 111 Long Range Hunter in .338 LM and finally leave AFG in 17 days after a year here. Am anxious to get home and see/shoot my new toy. Have my Redding Comp dies ordered & reloading data ready to go.

Now, just hope these last 17 days go fast...

 

[Sendero_Man]

Re: 300gr VLD Hybrid@ 1700M

Tag this again for great info...

 

[chariotdriver]

Thanks for tagging it.........just what I was looking for!

 

[P7id10t]

Inspiring shooting and thanks for all the info. Just picked up 700 of the 300gr OTM Gen2s and I was concerned for how long I measured my seating, now I know to go with it.

 

[Wildwillalaska]

tagged for later--

 

[paul2atlo8]

Lots of good info.

 

[jonthomps]

Awesome shooting! Your 788y group is great, and to put a group together @ 1700 under 12" is ridiculous. George knows a thing or two about precision that's for sure.

 

[psinclair]

Still hammering.....here's five on "Wolfie", from yesterday.