Hunting & Fishing 308 win with 178gr eld-x elk kill today. Not impressed

[MOUNTIC]

Today I shot a cow elk out on our private land with my 308 Cadex guardian lite. 20 inch barrel with surefire 300 sps suppressor.

135 yard shot. Broadside. 178gr eldx pills that are my handloads at 2550fps.

I shot it right behind the front shoulder as I'm looking to save as much meat as possible. Double lung is my preferred on cow elk and always works well. Bullet missed the entry side rib bones and went through the vitals and the bullet was stuck ok the opposite side rib bone. It cracked / splinted that rib but the bullet did not pass through. The lungs didn't look to be beat up really at all. On the entry side lung there was almost no trama with a nice clean hole I could stick my finger through. The opposite side lung was pretty intact and didnt look great but didn't have the trama I typically see with a Accubond that makes it look like soup inside. This cow had ZERO blood out of the entry point. Didn't exit so obviously nothing on that side. I had to skin the thing before I could even tell where I shot it. Even in the rib area I would normally see a 6 inch trama blood area in ribs but this had none whatsoever.

The bullet recovered was 53gr in weight. See photos attached. So it lost 125grs of weight.

The elk / herd just stood there after I shot it. I could hear the bullet impact the elk and the 70 head didn't know what happened. After 3 minutes or so they just walked off and I thought What The Heck!! I missed the thing. I moved over to my left and the cow was just laying there, not dead, with it's head up. Hurt obviously but wasn't dead. The past 20 elk I have shot ALWAYS run if their 4 legs are able to move. Last year one ran 60 yards pumping blood out and was done withing 30 seconds. This elk, still alive, I just put one right through it's head to finish it off.

This is the first thing I have shot with an Eldx and I'm not sure what to think of it.

Anyone else have similar results on big game?

 

[powdahound76]

My buddy dumped a doe at 280 yds with same bullet from his ‘06 a few weeks ago.

Hit a rib on the way in. Major damage. Nice big exit.
She still ran 45 yds, falling a couple times.

Exit pic

 

[MOUNTIC]

My buddy dumped a doe at 280 yds with same bullet from his ‘06 a few weeks ago.

Hit a rib on the way in. Major damage. Nice big exit.
She still ran 45 yds, falling a couple times.

Exit pic

View attachment 6992606

Well that looks like a total mess. I'm glad mine didn't do that! Complete opposite of my results.

 

[powdahound76]

Damaged no part of the front leg. Got a little bit of that thin muscle that comes back from the main part front leg and attaches to the ribs. No real meat loss.
Would not want to use for a shoulder shot for sure.
I never take those anyways.

 

[NateVA]

I've had very good results on two whitetail does with the 143gr ELD-X out of a 6.5 Creedmoor. Obviously they aren't as large but that's my limited experience. It is odd to me that it shed so much weight with seemingly no results to show for it. Not sure where all of it went.

 

[powdahound76]

Sorry, aparrently cant formulate it all and get it typed out while at work. A little to add.
My buddy used the 143 from his 6.5 CM 5 days before that and had great success. The bottom of the deer’s heart was gone and the damage to the lungs impressive. I found small bits of the heart around the chest cavity as I cleaned her, showing him how.

I am the devil and have used the 155 AMAX in my .308 Tikka for a while. No issues except the animals all drop like a ton of bricks. Last year was a neck spine shot. This year right through the lungs, just a ways behind where I was aiming. Dropped, rolled, tried to stand and flopped and rolled. Died in about 4 seconds.

 

[MOUNTIC]

I've had very good results on two whitetail does with the 143gr ELD-X out of a 6.5 Creedmoor. Obviously they aren't as large but that's my limited experience. It is odd to me that it shed so much weight with seemingly no results to show for it. Not sure where all of it went.

That's what I'm wondering. I'm chalking it up to just be something I can't answer. My sister still has a cow tag and I'll let her shoot my rifle and compare results. Happens twice, then I will look into it further.

 

[stello1001]

Maybe you won't like my response but this is just my point of view and I never expect anyone to agree so don't take this top harshly. But, I think that no matter how well placed your shot is, these things can still run or possibly stay alive for a few minutes after. I always remember an uncle's buck shot with a .270, got the heart, and buck still ran about 200 yards in the brush. These things get an adrenaline going when they're fighting for their life and become much much stronger. Did you walk right up to it immediately after your shot? I normally like to wait 30 to 60 minutes after my shot. With that being said though, I would have also preferred to find a perfectly mushroomed bullet instead of what you found and I would have also preferred to see the vitals more jello'ed. I'll post a pic of my brother in law's buck from this past weekend. It was also shot with eld-x only his was a 145 grain .270. Even with that huge opening, the buck attempted to jump a fence but didn't make it. Buck tried again and managed to get to the other side successfully and still ran into the brush a bit.

What I'm trying to say is, I think you should have seen slightly better results but at the same time, I don't like to see results as the one pictured above. Especially not if it's on game I will put on the dinner table. I also don't know whether I like ELD-X or not.

 

[davsco]

60 head??!! all i can say is if you need some help thinning the heard, i will take one for the team and come to your aid! unless i stroke out first seeing all that!

but back on topic, have heard mixed about the eld-x on elk on here and other forums. i sure hope the partitions and accubond factory loads shoot better in my upcoming tikka 300wsm t3x than the eld-x's do so it will be an easy decision which to use for me next october.

 

[MOUNTIC]

Maybe you won't like my response but this is just my point of view and I never expect anyone to agree so don't take this top harshly. But, I think that no matter how well placed your shot is, these things can still run or possibly stay alive for a few minutes after. I always remember an uncle's buck shot with a .270, got the heart, and buck still ran about 200 yards in the brush. These things get an adrenaline going when they're fighting for their life and become much much stronger. Did you walk right up to it immediately after your shot? I normally like to wait 30 to 60 minutes after my shot. With that being said though, I would have also preferred to find a perfectly mushroomed bullet instead of what you found and I would have also preferred to see the vitals more jello'ed. I'll post a pic of my brother in law's buck from this past weekend. It was also shot with eld-x only his was a 145 grain .270. Even with that huge opening, the buck attempted to jump a fence but didn't make it. Buck tried again and managed to get to the other side successfully and still ran into the brush a bit.

View attachment 6993014

What I'm trying to say is, I think you should have seen slightly better results but at the same time, I don't like to see results as the one pictured above. Especially not if it's on game I will put on the dinner table. I also don't know whether I like ELD-X or not.

Appreciate the reply. I never walk up to anything right after I shoot. Learned that, long ago, the hard way. After the herd moved along I was able to see where she was laying. But not on her side or anything. Sitting up. Being only 135 yards and able to shoot half moa with this gun, I just put one through the side of her head. Put her out as cleanly and quickly as possible if I am able to. And that shot didn't even blow out the side of the head eather. I have shot probably 30 cows and a many good 6x6 bulls and never once seen the results I have here. This is the first time using these bullets on large game though. This double lung shot and being about 7 minutes after, seeing her sitting up was shock from where the bullet was placed. I know elk are tough and I have some stories of tough bulls not going down after grouping 3 rounds in a row into the vitals with a 300 win mag is a testimate to these great animals. The reason I used my 308 here and not my 300 win mag, or 300 short mag is that the shots on this property are inside 200yd and I had it suppressed ready to go. But I don't think being only at this distance or using the 308 had anything to do with the bullet performance here.

I went from the Partition to the Accubond and have never had an issue. I'm second guessing the ELDx switch and may be just loading up some 180gr Accubonds instead. I use the 200gr Accubond in my 300 win mags and with the 300 PRC that SAC is building for me right now my plan was to run the 212 eldx in it for my Moose / caribou hunt next year up in AK.

I am not putting too much stock into this just yet with seeing pics like you posted above. But if I can't get a cow to pile up I'm a clean vital shot at just over a hundred yards, I'm not sure it's what I am taking to Alaska in my 300prc next year.

 

[MOUNTIC]

60 head??!! all i can say is if you need some help thinning the heard, i will take one for the team and come to your aid! unless i stroke out first seeing all that!

but back on topic, have heard mixed about the eld-x on elk on here and other forums. i sure hope the partitions and accubond factory loads shoot better in my upcoming tikka 300wsm t3x than the eld-x's do so it will be an easy decision which to use for me next october.

I get that offer almost weekly. There are about 125 local head that never travel more then a mile or two off the property year round. Some great animals. I have about identical velocities and groupings in my 24" 300 win mags right at 3k fps with both the Accubond and Eldx 200gr pills. Handloads. So I kept using the Accubond. I liked the idea on the 308 to use the ELDx at lower velocity thinking it would be a winner. We'll have to see. May just be my mule deer load and save the bonded bullets for the elk.

 

[MOUNTIC]

Here is my would be exit wound side. Dogs had to come check it out also. Entry side the same. Not a drop of blood on the hide.

 

[myronman3]

My buddy killed a buck with a hornady 308 sst bullet this year....the deer dropped at the shot. Here is the bizarre part. ....a pencil hole going in, and no exit hole. Right behind the shoulder, perfect placement. 150 grain 308....no blood. On this deer, he didnt need it. But he took a shot on a doe later that day, and he knows he drilled her. She did not drop, instead took off and left no blood. He is an very experienced hunter and a fellow infantryman.....when he says a shot was money, you can bet your ass it was. At any rate...his faith in hornady bullets on game is shaken. He asked me my advice...i told him to try a different brand bullet.....see if he gets results more in line with what he wants.

I amNOT slamming hornady..i shoot a lot of their bullets....but not in deer rifle calibers. Just personal preference, that’s all.

 

[myronman3]

I have shot nosler 150 gr ballistic tips in my 270 for years on whitetail, and had amazing results. Shot a 165 gr. Ballistic tip out of the 300wsm and hit a buck double lung, and the bastard ran 70 yards before piling up....so i. Dont really trust that load as a drt load.
I always had really good luck with round nose bullets, they aint as fancy as poly tipped bullets, but they are indeed effective in every caliber i have tried them in. Usually, i get something that does what i want, and i stick with it. Especially on game.

 

[stello1001]

My buddy killed a buck with a hornady 308 sst bullet this year....the deer dropped at the shot. Here is the bizarre part. ....a pencil hole going in, and no exit hole. Right behind the shoulder, perfect placement. 150 grain 308....no blood. On this deer, he didnt need it. But he took a shot on a doe later that day, and he knows he drilled her. She did not drop, instead took off and left no blood. He is an very experienced hunter and a fellow infantryman.....when he says a shot was money, you can bet your ass it was. At any rate...his faith in hornady bullets on game is shaken. He asked me my advice...i told him to try a different brand bullet.....see if he gets results more in line with what he wants.

I amNOT slamming hornady..i shoot a lot of their bullets....but not in deer rifle calibers. Just personal preference, that’s all.

You mentioned no exit hole in the first incident and buck fell dead right there. That means the bullet dumped all it's energy on the buck and did exactly what it was supposed to. If the same bullet was used on the doe, maybe it's safe to say there was also no blood because there was no exit wound. Meaning the bullet dumped all it's energy on the animal, thus doing exactly what it's supposed to. I would have looked and looked and looked like crazy for it. I killed a big bodied deer this season, it did leave both an entry and exit wound but absolutely no blood anywhere around or near the area it was standing when I shot it. It wasn't until maybe 40 yards in the thick south Texas brush that we saw the first blood drops. After that, it went about 60 to 80 more yards in brush just dropping loads and leaving puddles of blood.

 

[myronman3]

He did look and look like crazy. Two days. He doesnt take losing an animal lightly. A finer sportsman does not exist.

i have shot piles of deer with 150 grain nosler ballistic tips out of my 270. Entry wounds are huge and ghastly, exit wounds are usually 50 cent piece size...vitals are soup. It is insane.

From what i have seen through the years, i fully expect a 150 grain bullet to penetrate the width of a deer, rib to rib. If it doesnt, there is a problem. Hell, i even used to target the front shoulders when i first started using ballistic tips, to ensure dropping them on the spot. Never once did i not have a exit wound. Not once. I soon learned to avoid the front shoulders, because they were both garbage from the bullet shock.

Even a large northern whitetail aint that thick. If a 150 grain at 308 velocities doesnt penetrate rib to rib, i’ll submit something aint right.

 

[stello1001]

He did look and look like crazy. Two days. He doesnt take losing an animal lightly. A finer sportsman does not exist.

i have shot piles of deer with 150 grain nosler ballistic tips out of my 270. Entry wounds are huge and ghastly, exit wounds are usually 50 cent piece size...vitals are soup. It is insane.

From what i have seen through the years, i fully expect a 150 grain bullet to penetrate the width of a deer, rib to rib. If it doesnt, there is a problem. Hell, i even used to target the front shoulders when i first started using ballistic tips, to ensure dropping them on the spot. Never once did i not have a exit wound. Not once. I soon learned to avoid the front shoulders, because they were both garbage from the bullet shock.

Even a large northern whitetail aint that thick. If a 150 grain at 308 velocities doesnt penetrate rib to rib, i’ll submit something aint right.

Sorry to hear deer was not recovered. I absolutely hate it when that happens and also like to look like crazy before calling it quits. However, I actually would not mind if I didn't have an exit would as I personally see that as a good thing. Normally, the animal will be relatively close by as the bullet has dumped its entire energy into it and typically the internals will be jello'ed. But I do agree, a 150 grain bullet from either a .270 or .308 should be able to go completely through almost always considering the distance to target wasn't too excessively long.

 

[myronman3]

To the OP....

i did see once where a deer had taken a hit, and shoulda been dead. It wasnt. Another hunter had shot it, and it ran 30 yards and laid down. Upon approaching the deer, i lifted it’s head and i shot it through the head with a 357. Upon dressing it, we couldnt find a entry hole, or an exit. Or any trama to the vitals.

we peeled the hide off, we found a little nick in the ribs, and a piece of copper jacket embeded inside the ribs. It was a part of the jacket of the bullet, it weighed like 18 grains....originally 130. Went back to the stand for answers, and saw a twig 20 feet from his stand that took a bullet, obviously his. We figure that after impact with the twig, the jacket seperated and continued on to the deer. Caused enough damage that he didnt go far, but visually was hard to account for.

Is it possible you hit somethign before the bullet struck the deer?

 

[Wyfox]

Had the same thing happen with several deer with the ELDX, I was very underwelmed and dissapointed with their performance. Entirely to inconsistant for me.
Now I just shoot Accubonds for hunting and everything is DRT.

 

[Shadow knows]

I cannot say I like eld-x better than say accubond or sst or even my hunter elites with all my rifles but the 6.5cm shoots eld-x and has dropped the deer. I have no complaints. It busted up but so did my sst. Accubond may have held together a touch better but not enough to force the rifle to like the bullet.
If you want the bullet to stay together go with a Barnes TSX. I tried them, didn’t work for my 308 but that’s mine.

 

[MOUNTIC]

Thanks for the replies everyone. I didn't think in this spot I was shooting from had any obstructions but I guess there is always that possibility. Makes sense though and didn't think of that in this situation but I appreciate the info/your same experience.

 

[drglock]

Since switching over to 143 ELDX’s I’ve killed two buck and several yotes. One buck was a bang flop, the other went about 40ish yard. There was so much blood down the trail a blind man could of found him. With both bucks I’ve been impressed with the damage done on the inside. Lungs and heart looked like jello. But with that said bullets can fail.

 

[Gtscotty]

I worked up a good load with the 178 ELDxs out of my .308 this past year, but didn't wind up taking that rifle out during the season, maybe that was a good thing. I had heard that the 178gr .308 specifically was a harder bullet than some of the other ELDxs, but that doesn't really jive with the 30% weight retention you saw.

I have had nothing but great performance with various Accubonds, I probably ought to just stick with proven killers.

 

[jljr23]

I've got mine running about 2500 fps and took an antelope doe this year. Unfortunately, the elk herd was no where to be found. I shot her about 20 yards on the run and it blew right thru her. It didn't have much time to expand but it knocked her down quick.

 

[MK20]

Just solve it with a 45-70.

 

[varifleman]

You all should try Barnes x bullets. Used them in Africa as well as the US . I feel it is the most deadly bullet on the planet. Used them from Cape buffalo to pronghorn in different calibers . Nothing moves after being shot with them. Two of my hunting buddies use them exclusively as well.

 

[stello1001]

You all should try Barnes x bullets. Used them in Africa as well as the US . I feel it is the most deadly bullet on the planet. Used them from Cape buffalo to pronghorn in different calibers . Nothing moves after being shot with them. Two of my hunting buddies use them exclusively as well.

Specifically which one? I'm actually looking now and can't find one named just "x" so...

 

[varifleman]

Specifically which one? I'm actually looking now and can't find one named just "x" so...

View attachment 6995871

Barnes tsx. The ttsx is the polymer tip design. Supposedly flies better. Tried them and upto 400 yards no difference.
Putting one round in five different African animals in 375 and many deer sized in .308, this IS the only bullet for me!

 

[shields shtr]

I hate to say it, but I've completely given up trying to predict bullet performance on game. I have been using the ELD-M out of my 6.5 and 6 on cow elk with all one shot kills, but each bullet did something different. I have recovered perfectly mushroomed bullets that retained 70 percent of their weight, and I have seen them seemingly vaporize inside the body cavity at similar distances with the same caliber. Shot them between 3 and 600 yards and all points in between. I have lent my rifles to other folks and also seen wildly different results. Some take a few steps and die right away, some run like crazy and then tip over, there is just no real way to predict what they do. My buddy shot a fairly large bodied bull this year right behind the shoulder with the hallowed nosler partition out of his 7 mag and that thing ran off like it hadn't even been hit. We found it about 100-150 yards away and it was still very much alive and he had to put another one in it. Watched another buddy shoot a bull with a 212 ELD-x out of a .300 Winnie right behind the shoulder and it walked off seemingly unharmed. I used the 215 Berger out of my .300 win mag and it also got the job done, just with different results each time. It just seems like there are so many variables at play the best thing to do is put your shot through both lungs and hope your bullet does it's job. The most predictable results I get while hunting come with a stick and string. Seems like a double lung pass through kills them deader than a door nail in less than a minute every time.

 

[MOUNTIC]

I hate to say it, but I've completely given up trying to predict bullet performance on game. I have been using the ELD-M out of my 6.5 and 6 on cow elk with all one shot kills, but each bullet did something different. I have recovered perfectly mushroomed bullets that retained 70 percent of their weight, and I have seen them seemingly vaporize inside the body cavity at similar distances with the same caliber. Shot them between 3 and 600 yards and all points in between. I have lent my rifles to other folks and also seen wildly different results. Some take a few steps and die right away, some run like crazy and then tip over, there is just no real way to predict what they do. My buddy shot a fairly large bodied bull this year right behind the shoulder with the hallowed nosler partition out of his 7 mag and that thing ran off like it hadn't even been hit. We found it about 100-150 yards away and it was still very much alive and he had to put another one in it. Watched another buddy shoot a bull with a 212 ELD-x out of a .300 Winnie right behind the shoulder and it walked off seemingly unharmed. I used the 215 Berger out of my .300 win mag and it also got the job done, just with different results each time. It just seems like there are so many variables at play the best thing to do is put your shot through both lungs and hope your bullet does it's job. The most predictable results I get while hunting come with a stick and string. Seems like a double lung pass through kills them deader than a door nail in less than a minute every time.

I hear ya on the bow kills. I have been hunting with my bow more and more often these days. Shot my black bear with my bow this year even though it was rifle season.. I agree that bullets are unpredictable. I've seen a antelope get shot years back that entered one side and somehow exited at the rear of the animal on the same side. Just couldn't explain it.

How do you like the 215 Bergers for hunting big game?

 

[Deleted member 10043]

Just one of those flukes of terminal ballistics and living things. I wouldn't blame the bullet. There is nothing to blame.

 

[shields shtr]

How do you like the 215 Bergers for hunting big game?

The 215 was probably the most "reliable" in terms of on game performance, never had a bad experience, except for one. I did find that I saw a more traditional mushroomed bullet when I went through bone, compared to a behind the shoulder shot that squeezed between a rib or didn't hit one at all. My worst experience was with a wolf I shot at 320 yards and the bullet didn't expand at all. That bullet has a thick jacket and I think is better suited for thicker skinned, more "dense" type animals.