308 Winchester AR Only

[TexasHaag]

I've loaded a bunch of BL-C2 in 308 but stopped because it's temp sensitive, not real accurate, and didn't provide anything remarkable in terms of velocity. It's best qualities are it's availability because no one wants to buy it. I would say if you wanted to load 147 grain pull downs for 3MOA Blast-o-matic stuff, go for it. I would recommend TAC over BL-C2. Better velocities and accuracy. Mayyyybe slightly less temp sensitive.

I use BLC-2 exclusively in my M1A 7.62-51 with a 178gr BTHP. I shoot regularly out to 600yrd with no real issues with accuracy. I shoot the same load in my gas gun 20" barrel 1-10 twist. The subject of temp sensitivity is a debatable subject IMO.

 

[JR1200W3]

I use BLC-2 exclusively in my M1A 7.62-51 with a 178gr BTHP. I shoot regularly out to 600yrd with no real issues with accuracy. I shoot the same load in my gas gun 20" barrel 1-10 twist. The subject of temp sensitivity is a debatable subject IMO.

I'm glad you like it. You asked why you don't see a lot of people using it. Those are my reasons for not using it anymore.

 

[padom]

I use BLC-2 exclusively in my M1A 7.62-51 with a 178gr BTHP. I shoot regularly out to 600yrd with no real issues with accuracy. I shoot the same load in my gas gun 20" barrel 1-10 twist. The subject of temp sensitivity is a debatable subject IMO.

While you can have your own opinion... there is nothing debatable about temp sensitivity and temp sensitive powders... Especially when shooting at distance. Especially powders like BLC-2, CFE22, and Lever that have a 1.7fps per degree F change... My recent testing for CFE223 posted in the 6 ARC thread was 2 fps per degree F temp change.

Thats a HUGE swing shooting a load in 85-90F vs 30-40F... Knowing your temp change for your load is different than saying temp sensitivity is debatable because I've tested it heavily and its very real and non-debatable.

 

[PusherX11]

Can’t go wrong varget. I just find 4064 is a tried and true. 30+lbs and mixed it all up and repackaged. Now it’s consistent without worry of lot change

When mixing your lots, what do you use to mix in?

 

[Wizard1183]

5gallon bucket

 

[TexasHaag]

While you can have your own opinion... there is nothing debatable about temp sensitivity and temp sensitive powders... Especially when shooting at distance. Especially powders like BLC-2, CFE22, and Lever that have a 1.7fps per degree F change... My recent testing for CFE223 posted in the 6 ARC thread was 2 fps per degree F temp change.

Thats a HUGE swing shooting a load in 85-90F vs 30-40F... Knowing your temp change for your load is different than saying temp sensitivity is debatable because I've tested it heavily and its very real and non-debatable.

What is the base temperature you're comparing the fps change from?

 

[357Max]

I worked up a varmint load using AA2200 ball & Lapua 100gr HPCE loaded 2.643" Not giving powder charge for this as it was worked up in Hybrid cases. Gave me a little peace of mind exploring combo's with little info. I used Western Powders load data for starting points.
Haven't played with seating depth yet.

AA2200 is a good ball powder in applications where it's a good fit. Seems to be a pretty good fit in 308 up to 155gr if you want full burn in shortish barrels.
I have no idea about the Temp sensitivity for 2200/Data powder? Don't hear much about this powder accept for the 6.8SPC shooters.

Also loaded some 155 eldm's @2.823" with 41.8gr of 2200 & it gave 2614 SD 4.5 for 5 rounds. I'd start at 40.8 & work up for this combo. This was not a high pressure load.

If anyone has quick load I'd love to see some numbers for the AA2200 with 100 - 155gr

Lapua 100gr HPCE .3 mil to 200y I suspect pressure is up there on this load. Primers showed some flattening, but there was zero cratering. The RCA HP bolt may be masking some pressure though.

Left target is 155 eldm's & right is the 100gr Lapua's. I'm surprised POI didn't shift more considering the almost 700fps difference in these 2 loads.
The Lapua's cut nice clean holes in paper & the front end of the bullet has a large hollow cavity below the hollow point. I think these will be devastating on varmints.

 

[padom]

What is the base temperature you're comparing the fps change from?

What base temperature? 88F to 40F.. 40F to 90F.... All shot over my Garmin with same loaded ammo in both conditions. I saw a 2fps per degree velocity change. Thats just for the CFE 6 ARC mentioned specifically above. Ive tested lots of different powders.

For example, exact same setup, bullets, brass, primers, etc for this 6 ARC rifle and testing. Same days, I tested AR Comp as well. I saw a 6fps change from 90F to 40F... AR Comp is some of the most temp stable powder out there..

 

[r.tenorio671]

FWIW, my test results out of 16" AR10 "self-build"....

Load Date = 23 Aug 2015			Powder = AR Comp
Bullet = Hornady 155 OTM BTHP		Primer =	WLR
Ballistic COE = .405				COAL =	2.280"
	Grains						Avg FPS	Std Dev	ES
Start	42	2659​	2596​	2619​	2659​		2633	27	63
	42.2	2514​		2554​	2648​	2657​	2593	61	143
	42.4	2643​	2647​	2630​	2625​	2620​	2633	10	27
	42.6	2606​	2603​	2588​	2593​	2592​	2596	7	18
	42.8	2618​	2595​	2600​	2609​	2628​	2610	12	33
	43	2599​	2599​	2585​	2669​		2613	33	84
	43.2	2622​	2630​	2630​	2608​	2612​	2620	9	22
	43.4	2658​	2630​	2646​	2659​	2662​	2651	12	32
	43.6	2656​	2652​	2688​	2663​	2640​	2660	16	48
MAX	43.8	2640​	2661​	2683​	2669​		2663	16	43

 

[r.tenorio671]

FWIW, 16" AR "self-build"....

Load Date = 23 Aug 2015			Powder = AR Comp
Bullet = Hornady 168 OTM BTHP		Primer =	WLR
Ballistic COE = .450				COAL =	2.280"
	Grains						Avg FPS	Std Dev	ES
Start	39.5	2416​	2435​	2377​			2409	24	58
	40		2452​	2441​			2447	6	11
	40.5	2411​	2449​	2434​			2431	16	38
	41	2443​	2451​	2464​			2453	9	21
	41.5	2486​	2484​	2474​			2481	5	12

 

[r.tenorio671]

FWIW, 16" AR "self-build"...

Load Date = 23 Aug 2015			Powder = AR Comp
Bullet = Hornady 178 OTM BTHP		Primer =	WLR
Ballistic COE = .530				COAL =	2.280"
	Grains						Avg FPS	Std Dev
Start	38.5	2327​	2313​	2324​			2321	6
	39	2343​	2328​	2347​			2339	8
	39.5	2373​	2388​	2368​			2376	8
	40	2404​	2411​	2404​			2406	3
	40.5	2435​	2418​	2394​			2416	17

 

[r.tenorio671]

...just a note on the 3 test results I posted above, all were conducted using assorted datestamp LC brass. Tested in tropical isle environment of high heat (85-95F), high humidity (80-85%H), "sea-level" altitude (approx < 600ft).

YMMV

 

[welditforyou]

Greetings guy,
Yesterday I shot a .22LR comp with those little steel critters. You know the ones I mean.
The guy who sets these comps up is a "mature" fella whose told the story of his dad and
the guy who originally built the range that we were shooting at. The story goes that these
2 guys shot many comps and won many of them.
These 2 fellas had the opinion that . . . . a full cartridge is a happy cartridge!
They used the OLD Lee reload data. Do you guys know anything about this?
Ahhh, the good o'l days, huh!

 

[Badmonkey]

Greetings guy,
Yesterday I shot a .22LR comp with those little steel critters. You know the ones I mean.
The guy who sets these comps up is a "mature" fella whose told the story of his dad and
the guy who originally built the range that we were shooting at. The story goes that these
2 guys shot many comps and won many of them.
These 2 fellas had the opinion that . . . . a full cartridge is a happy cartridge!
They used the OLD Lee reload data. Do you guys know anything about this?
Ahhh, the good o'l days, huh!

In my limited experience I have found that to be mostly true for bolt guns. My gas guns seem to be happier with milder charges. That could be nothing more than coincidence, as my sample size is small.

 

[smoothy8500]

In my limited experience I have found that to be mostly true for bolt guns. My gas guns seem to be happier with milder charges. That could be nothing more than coincidence, as my sample size is small.

Plenty reloaders find the mid to 2/3 up loads do very well in 308 semi-autos like the AR10 or M14 and 7.62 M1 Garand.

 

[Wizard1183]

Plenty reloaders find the mid to 2/3 up loads do very well in 308 semi-autos like the AR10 or M14 and 7.62 M1 Garand.

Well 16” ar10, starting load for service rifle is 41.5-43.9 (which I’m going to assume means lake city brass), IMR 4064 with 168gr SMK.

Accuracy at 100yrds is excellent at 41.5-41.8. Not saying others aren’t but up to 43.4gr it just wasn’t that good. Now 42.2-42.8 has produced good results as well.

 

[smoothy8500]

service rifle is 41.5 IMR 4064 with 168gr SMK.

Yes, one of the classic , "middle of the range" semi-auto load I was speaking of.

 

[Wizard1183]

Yes, one of the classic , "middle of the range" semi-auto load I was speaking of.

Right

 

[Thumper580]

Finally got my AR10 308 shooting the way it's supposed to. Craddock Precision 18" (Bartlein) barrel. 5 rounds each @ 100 yards.
Powder. Varget, 42.0gr.
Case. Lapua
Bullet. Sierra 175 SMK
Primer. CCI LR
Ogive 2.195

 

[max1840]

Very nice shooting.

 

[Huckleberry75]

Finally got my AR10 308 shooting the way it's supposed to. Craddock Precision 18" (Bartlein) barrel. 5 rounds each @ 100 yards.
Powder. Varget, 42.0gr.
Case. Lapua
Bullet. Sierra 175 SMK
Primer. CCI LR
Ogive 2.195
View attachment 8531592

What sort of velocity are you getting? Those are some fine groups.

 

[Ed Compton]

I have an Aero Precision M5 E1 with a Criterion barrel with the M118 chamber. Anyone got some good ideas or experience with what bullets/loads it may like? Hoping to be consistently sub MOA

 

[GhostFace]

Any of these loads in this thread should be good to go barring your barrel just doesn’t like a particular bullet. With the M118 chamber I’d look at these loads that use a 175 SMK or Nosler CC….

ETA there isn’t a free lunch when it comes to reloading, you still have to put in your own work because each barrel is an entity unto itself so to speak. While there are many proven loads that seem to work well across many rifles, sometimes you have a barrel that just doesn’t like them. I’d buy a box f whatever bullet you decide upon and a pound of whatever powder you’re thinking about and go from there. If your barrel likes it then buy kegs of that powder and larger quantities of bullets.

 

[Thumper580]

What sort of velocity are you getting? Those are some fine groups.

Sadly, right now I don't have chrono... Like to get the Garmin Xero. Can't say what the speeds are...

 

[Badmonkey]

I have criterion with that chamber. It likes 168 SMK/nosler CC the best as far as small groups. Can get in the .5 moa range. Got a just under MOA with 155 smk, 175 smk, and 178 eldm. Settled on 168 eldms. Closer to .75 MOA than half, but I get more consistent hits out past 750yds.

I have loads with similar results from the following-

A2495 42.1 grain
Shooters world precision 43.6
TAC 43.1

All right around 2600fps out of a 20” in LC brass

 

[jLorenzo]

Finally got my AR10 308 shooting the way it's supposed to. Craddock Precision 18" (Bartlein) barrel. 5 rounds each @ 100 yards.
Powder. Varget, 42.0gr.
Case. Lapua
Bullet. Sierra 175 SMK
Primer. CCI LR
Ogive 2.195
View attachment 8531592

Where did you get the barrel, rifle length gas?

 

[jLorenzo]

...just a note on the 3 test results I posted above, all were conducted using assorted datestamp LC brass. Tested in tropical isle environment of high heat (85-95F), high humidity (80-85%H), "sea-level" altitude (approx < 600ft).

YMMV

Which shot the best?

 

[r.tenorio671]

Which shot the best?

..for my purposes, each of the bullet weights had one good group. Understanding that my perceptions are just that, mine. I've added the test target results to this post, you can look at them and come to your own conclusions.

YMMV