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.308 Winchester
- Thread starter Two Shoes
- Start date
No one can really say for sure until the length of the freebore is known. I suspect you very likely could go out to .020 of if not closer . . .???
Max BTO with a 178 ELDM is 2.3085.
You just might be able to load all the way out to the lands as there'll be plenty of bearing surface inside the neck if your mag can hold them than long, otherwise, you'd need to single feed them. And there'll probably be an issue on ejecting a live round from a short action because of the very long cartridge length when one is loading that long. If you need to load them in a mag, the mag length is your limitation. I'd guess .020 off the lands would totally work, but you'll have to experiment with different lengths to see what kind of jump gives you the best results in your particular rifle.
Thinking about trying the Sierra 155 out. Going to run H4895. I run a 22" and would like to hit 2900. Most of the loads I've seen are for longer barrels. Is 2900 with a 22" doable?
I don't think so . . . not with a 22" barrel. But . . . you might get close as you're likely have to exceed the SAAMI max pressure a little.
Figured as much. I really have no need to change up from the 168 eld. I should try the 155s in my 16" gasser.
176 Hornady A-Tip
44.3 Varget
Lapua brass .002" neck tension
CCI BR-2
2.178" To ogive (.030" jump in my barrel)
GAP 22" 1:11.25
2673 fps
SD 2.6
ES 4
.38 MOA best group
This was found in my load development. I will confirm it at distance, but given the low SD and consistency of these I think they will be a winner. They kick ass in my 65CM rifle.
44.3 Varget
Lapua brass .002" neck tension
CCI BR-2
2.178" To ogive (.030" jump in my barrel)
GAP 22" 1:11.25
2673 fps
SD 2.6
ES 4
.38 MOA best group
This was found in my load development. I will confirm it at distance, but given the low SD and consistency of these I think they will be a winner. They kick ass in my 65CM rifle.
Yeah, that velocity is right in line with my calculations in the app QuickLoad at a temperature of 70°F for 44.3 gr of Varget. But note, the pressure is quite high at around 64,000+ psi. Bump the temperature up to something like 90°F and pressure is getting to 67,000 psi.
I run the same powder and charge weight with the Hornady 178 HPBT and have zero issues. No ejector swipes or primer flattening. I have shot it from 20-100 degrees. It's been safe in my rifle.
I do appreciate the heads up.
I do appreciate the heads up.
Here are 3 different loads for 3 different bullets. This rifle with this barrel will soon be replaced with basically the same barrel, but finished at 26" (not 24").
Caliber: .308win
Rifle brand: PGWdti
Rifle Model: Coyote
Barrel length and twist: 24" 1:10" Krieger
Projectile brand, model and weight: Lapua Scenar 155gr
Powder brand and weight: Varget 47.2gr
LOAD CONSIDERED HOT OR CLOSE TO MAX: No
Primers: CCI BR-2
Coal: N/A (too long to mag feed)
Ogive length: 2.230" CBTO
Brass: Lapua
Brass trim length: 2.005"
Distance to lands: .007"
Velocity (average): 3045fps ES=10 SD=3.2 (30 shot string)
Outside temperature: 24c
Wind and direction: N/A
Barometric pressure and other relevant data: 683m ASL, 101.0Kpa, 48% RH, .002" shoulder bump
I chose the 155gr scenars because of the competition consensus about four years ago....faster and flatter. According to iSnipe, it transitions right around 1200m (a moderate to high load).
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Caliber: .308win
Rifle brand: PGWdti
Rifle Model: Coyote
Barrel length and twist: 24" 1:10" Krieger
Projectile brand, model and weight: Hornady 178gr ELD-M
Powder brand and weight: Varget 43.0gr
LOAD CONSIDERED HOT OR CLOSE TO MAX: No
Primers: CCI BR-2
Coal: N/A (too long to mag feed)
Ogive length (CBTO): 2.245"
Brass: Lapua
Brass trim length: 2.005"
Ogive distance to lands: .010"
Velocity (average): 2745fps ES=11 SD=3.1 (30 shot string)
Outside temperature: 24c
Wind and direction: N/A
Barometric pressure and other relevant data: 792m ASL, 101.0Kpa, 55% RH, .002" shoulder bump
It's a shame I won't be shooting this for long. It is a very accurate and consistent load for this rifle. But, I'll be re-barrelling the Coyote in the very near future and moving on to something different. According to iSnipe, this load transitions just under 1200m (a moderate load).
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Caliber: .308win
Rifle brand: PGWdti
Rifle Model: Coyote
Barrel length and twist: 24" 1:10" Krieger
Projectile brand, model and weight: Hornady 208gr ELD-M
Powder brand and weight: Varget 41.0gr
LOAD CONSIDERED HOT OR CLOSE TO MAX: No
Primers: CCI BR-2
Coal: N/A (too long to mag feed)
Ogive length (CBTO): 2.243"
Brass: Lapua
Brass trim length: 2.005"
Ogive distance to lands: .010"
Velocity (average): 2532fps ES=11 SD=3.7 (30 shot string)
Outside temperature: 24c
Wind and direction: N/A
Barometric pressure and other relevant data: 1124m ASL, 100.9 KPA, 42% RH, .002" shoulder bump
Easy kilometre plinking load. It bucks the wind pretty fair too. According to iSnipe, this load transitions just over 1400m (a moderate to high load).
Caliber: .308win
Rifle brand: PGWdti
Rifle Model: Coyote
Barrel length and twist: 24" 1:10" Krieger
Projectile brand, model and weight: Lapua Scenar 155gr
Powder brand and weight: Varget 47.2gr
LOAD CONSIDERED HOT OR CLOSE TO MAX: No
Primers: CCI BR-2
Coal: N/A (too long to mag feed)
Ogive length: 2.230" CBTO
Brass: Lapua
Brass trim length: 2.005"
Distance to lands: .007"
Velocity (average): 3045fps ES=10 SD=3.2 (30 shot string)
Outside temperature: 24c
Wind and direction: N/A
Barometric pressure and other relevant data: 683m ASL, 101.0Kpa, 48% RH, .002" shoulder bump
I chose the 155gr scenars because of the competition consensus about four years ago....faster and flatter. According to iSnipe, it transitions right around 1200m (a moderate to high load).
****************************************************************************************
Caliber: .308win
Rifle brand: PGWdti
Rifle Model: Coyote
Barrel length and twist: 24" 1:10" Krieger
Projectile brand, model and weight: Hornady 178gr ELD-M
Powder brand and weight: Varget 43.0gr
LOAD CONSIDERED HOT OR CLOSE TO MAX: No
Primers: CCI BR-2
Coal: N/A (too long to mag feed)
Ogive length (CBTO): 2.245"
Brass: Lapua
Brass trim length: 2.005"
Ogive distance to lands: .010"
Velocity (average): 2745fps ES=11 SD=3.1 (30 shot string)
Outside temperature: 24c
Wind and direction: N/A
Barometric pressure and other relevant data: 792m ASL, 101.0Kpa, 55% RH, .002" shoulder bump
It's a shame I won't be shooting this for long. It is a very accurate and consistent load for this rifle. But, I'll be re-barrelling the Coyote in the very near future and moving on to something different. According to iSnipe, this load transitions just under 1200m (a moderate load).
****************************************************************************************
Caliber: .308win
Rifle brand: PGWdti
Rifle Model: Coyote
Barrel length and twist: 24" 1:10" Krieger
Projectile brand, model and weight: Hornady 208gr ELD-M
Powder brand and weight: Varget 41.0gr
LOAD CONSIDERED HOT OR CLOSE TO MAX: No
Primers: CCI BR-2
Coal: N/A (too long to mag feed)
Ogive length (CBTO): 2.243"
Brass: Lapua
Brass trim length: 2.005"
Ogive distance to lands: .010"
Velocity (average): 2532fps ES=11 SD=3.7 (30 shot string)
Outside temperature: 24c
Wind and direction: N/A
Barometric pressure and other relevant data: 1124m ASL, 100.9 KPA, 42% RH, .002" shoulder bump
Easy kilometre plinking load. It bucks the wind pretty fair too. According to iSnipe, this load transitions just over 1400m (a moderate to high load).
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Little load development in my rebarreled M70 with a Remington 700 5R 20" barrel.
10 rds at 100yds.
42gr Imr 4064
Hornady brass
Rem 9 1/2 primers
175 SMK 2.820
Avg 2579 fps
10 rds at 100yds.
42gr Imr 4064
Hornady brass
Rem 9 1/2 primers
175 SMK 2.820
Avg 2579 fps
I've got a 24" Krieger barrel on my .308 RPR now and thought I'd try out a Harrell tuner. So, though it's been 380 rounds since I cleaned the barrel, I went out yesterday to see if I could get the tuner to tighten up my groups some for the loads I've been recently firing and was pleased with the result . They're only 3 shot groups, but all under .4 MOA and tell me what I wanted to know. MV for the 4064 load on the left is at 2736 fps and 2607 fps for the AR Comp on the right.
My current 308 load
* Starline Small Rifle Primer Brass
* 41.7gr IMR 4064
* 178gr Hornady ELD Match loaded to 2.810
* Fiocchi Lead Free Small Rifle Primer
Shooting out of my 16" Windham SRC AR10 I get a MV of 2339 and an SD of 9.2. I won't claim to be the best AR10 shooter out there but if I focus (much more so than on my AR15) I can squeeze just under MOA out of it.
Alternatively I also have a nice reduced load of 34gr H4895 with a 168gr SMK that shoots very well with manageable recoil for newbies.
* Starline Small Rifle Primer Brass
* 41.7gr IMR 4064
* 178gr Hornady ELD Match loaded to 2.810
* Fiocchi Lead Free Small Rifle Primer
Shooting out of my 16" Windham SRC AR10 I get a MV of 2339 and an SD of 9.2. I won't claim to be the best AR10 shooter out there but if I focus (much more so than on my AR15) I can squeeze just under MOA out of it.
Alternatively I also have a nice reduced load of 34gr H4895 with a 168gr SMK that shoots very well with manageable recoil for newbies.
Attachments
I’ve been running the 208 eldm lately. Last time out I tried lapua brass 3.055 oal, 46.7gr of rl17, .010 off the lands & it was the best group & sd I’ve had yet with the 208gr at 2630 FPS & 5 sd with under .5moa at 100 & just slightly over .5moa at 560. At 560 yards it only used 3.2 mils elevation & .5 mil windage with 10 mph winds 85* weather. At 900 yards used 7 mils elevation & 1 mil windage, group was 6 in. This is the best bullet I’ve tried yet, bucks the wind like no other 308 bullet. In the Winchester brass rl17 47.5gr made 2600 FPS & 46.5gr in lapua made 2600. If I go to 47.7gr in Winchester brass do you think it will go to 2630 FPS like the lapua? What about the pressure in lapua 46.5-46.7gr & Winchester 47.5-47.7gr RL17? Only 1 or 2 cases out of 100 had a slight swipe mark with no other signs.
I load up mag length 178 eldm for my friends repr LWRC. Some I load 2.80in & some 2.86in for his ASC steel mags. I find 42.5-43gr varget does very well. If you are using a semi auto try the asc steel mags, larue ar10, or kac mags & load at 2.86in. I’ve found most of my friends ar10 have shot tighter groups when loaded to 2.86in. I’m going to try h4895 for the 178gr & 168gr Eldm to see how it does around 2.86in in my friends 308 semi autos. Anyone have any h4895 loads for the 168 or 178 eldm?
According to QuickLoad, it looks pretty very close, and yes, pressure is high. Take a look at what I'm seeing:
Looks like rl17 46.7 & 47.7 are little over pressure but not too bad. I might try 46.5 & 47.5 again & see how they compare with sd/es & group size to 46.7 & 47.7. A couple thousand psi over sammi is not too bad & I’m not seeing any signs brass wise so I will see how many reloads I get & how the brass holds up. I felt like I was near max but not too far past what’s acceptable. My rock creek 24in 5r is grouping well with the rl17 & 208eldm. This combo is bucking the wind better than 178 eldm or 185 jug that I’ve tried. I’m going to have to try it out around 1200-1500 yards. I wish my range went past 900 because I have to travel farther to good blm land to shoot at longer distances. Tks for the help with the quickload, I wish I could use it but I only have the iPad & iPhone now. I might have to get a windows laptop just for quickload
I'm going to be working up a load for my Savage FCP 10 soon and had some questions. Barrel is 24" 10 twist.
I want to start with 175 grain and Varget. Interested to see if anyone has use the RDF's in this length/twist rate with success. SMK's in Federal Match have done very well and I will be working these as well.
I want to start with 175 grain and Varget. Interested to see if anyone has use the RDF's in this length/twist rate with success. SMK's in Federal Match have done very well and I will be working these as well.
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Caliber: .308win
Rifle brand: PGWdti
Rifle Model: Coyote "2.0"
Barrel length and twist: 28" 1:9" Krieger (+.170" free bore)
Projectile brand, model and weight: Berger Juggernaught 185gr
Powder brand and weight: D4064SSC 44.0gr
LOAD CONSIDERED HOT OR CLOSE TO MAX: No pressure signs
Primers: CCI BR-2
Coal: Not Applicable (too long to mag feed)
Ogive length (CBTO): 2.360"
Brass: Lapua
Brass trim length: 2.007"
Ogive distance to lands: .010"
Velocity (average): 2662fps ES 9 SD 3.4 (5 shots)
Outside temperature: 15c
Wind and direction: N/A
Barometric pressure and other relevant data: 792m ASL, 101.3 KPA, 40% RH
According to iSnipe, this load transitions just over 1250m. My load development started at 40.5gr. It seems that the faster the Juggernaught is pushed, the more accurate it gets (with my rifle). The best result was with the 44.0gr charge (.375moa at 186m/204 yards). There is lots of "space" left in the case because of how far out the bullet is seated. So the load above is far from a compressed load. I will see how it performs at a kilometre and beyond. And then I might up the charge to see if I can reach my goal of 2700fps. And because this is a brand new barrel, it should get faster after a few hundred rounds or so. We'll see just how accurate it is too.
Rifle brand: PGWdti
Rifle Model: Coyote "2.0"
Barrel length and twist: 28" 1:9" Krieger (+.170" free bore)
Projectile brand, model and weight: Berger Juggernaught 185gr
Powder brand and weight: D4064SSC 44.0gr
LOAD CONSIDERED HOT OR CLOSE TO MAX: No pressure signs
Primers: CCI BR-2
Coal: Not Applicable (too long to mag feed)
Ogive length (CBTO): 2.360"
Brass: Lapua
Brass trim length: 2.007"
Ogive distance to lands: .010"
Velocity (average): 2662fps ES 9 SD 3.4 (5 shots)
Outside temperature: 15c
Wind and direction: N/A
Barometric pressure and other relevant data: 792m ASL, 101.3 KPA, 40% RH
According to iSnipe, this load transitions just over 1250m. My load development started at 40.5gr. It seems that the faster the Juggernaught is pushed, the more accurate it gets (with my rifle). The best result was with the 44.0gr charge (.375moa at 186m/204 yards). There is lots of "space" left in the case because of how far out the bullet is seated. So the load above is far from a compressed load. I will see how it performs at a kilometre and beyond. And then I might up the charge to see if I can reach my goal of 2700fps. And because this is a brand new barrel, it should get faster after a few hundred rounds or so. We'll see just how accurate it is too.
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Caliber: .308win
Rifle brand: PGWdti
Rifle Model: Coyote "2.0"
Barrel length and twist: 28" 1:9" Krieger (+.170" free bore)
Projectile brand, model and weight: Berger Juggernaught 185gr
Powder brand and weight: D4064SSC 44.0gr
LOAD CONSIDERED HOT OR CLOSE TO MAX: No pressure signs
Primers: CCI BR-2
Coal: Not Applicable (too long to mag feed)
Ogive length (CBTO): 2.360"
Brass: Lapua
Brass trim length: 2.007"
Ogive distance to lands: .010"
Velocity (average): 2662fps ES 9 SD 3.4 (5 shots)
Outside temperature: 15c
Wind and direction: N/A
Barometric pressure and other relevant data: 792m ASL, 101.3 KPA, 40% RH
According to iSnipe, this load transitions just over 1250m. My load development started at 40.5gr. It seems that the faster the Juggernaught is pushed, the more accurate it gets (with my rifle). The best result was with the 44.0gr charge (.375moa at 186m/204 yards). There is lots of "space" left in the case because of how far out the bullet is seated. So the load above is far from a compressed load. I will see how it performs at a kilometre and beyond. And then I might up the charge to see if I can reach my goal of 2700fps. And because this is a brand new barrel, it should get faster after a few hundred rounds or so. We'll see just how accurate it is too.
Am curious, which comparator tool do you use to measure your CBTO?
I ask as I use the Hornady Lock-N-Load Comparator Body and when I measure my Berger 185 Jugs I get a CBTO of 2.303 . . . ~.057" less than you. So, though your cartridges don't fit your mag, what is your COAL?
44 grs of 4064 fills the .308 case to 103% of capacity with a COAL measuring ~ 2.957" (bullet OAL average ~1.354"). Yeah, it looks like this powder load is putting you right at SAAMI max pressure and it appears you should be able to hit that 2700 fps . . . especially in warmer climates.
At 40.9 gr of 4064 I was able to get a good accuracy node with MV at 2560 fps from my 24" 1:10 Krieger barrel that has just over 3700 rounds fired in it . I've thought about going to the next higher node and it looks like that 44.0 gr is about right.
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Am curious, which comparator tool do you use to measure your CBTO?
I ask as I use the Hornady Lock-N-Load Comparator Body and when I measure my Berger 185 Jugs I get a CBTO of 2.303 . . . ~.057" less than you. So, though your cartridges don't fit your mag, what is your COAL?
44 grs of 4064 fills the .308 case to 103% of capacity with a COAL measuring ~ 2.957" (bullet OAL average ~1.354"). Yeah, it looks like this powder load is putting you right at SAAMI max pressure and it appears you should be able to hit that 2700 fps . . . especially in warmer climates.
At 40.9 gr of 4064 I was able to get a good accuracy node with MV at 2560 fps from my 24" 1:10 Krieger barrel that has just over 3700 rounds fired in it . I've thought about going to the next higher node and it looks like that 44.0 gr is about right.
Yeah, the magazine is useless to load from. This rifle is definitely a single loader. I use the Hornady comparator. I really don't know or care what the COAL is. The important measurement is the CBTO. I know that this load is on the long side. Since I had the chamber throated +.170", there's lots of room in the case for extra powder. One of the main things that the .308win round is lacking is case capacity. To push that 185gr bullet fast enough, you need that extra bit of capacity.
Yes, agree that the important measurement is the CBTO. But because that measurement is a comparative measurement given variations in tools that people use, I was asking about your COAL as that just helps with getting a better idea relatively with respects to your case dimensions compared to mine. That you also use a Hordady comparator, I'm really puzzled why I my CBTO measurement is .057 different than yours for a Berger 185 Jug.
That's a huge difference. I know bullets can have significant variation in their BTO's, particularly from lot to lot, but haven't seen that in any Berger products.I also load on the long side to help with that increasing case capacity, and I single load mine as well. Though I do have a mag that'll accommodate a cartridge out to a COAL of 2.96
Yes, agree that the important measurement is the CBTO. But because that measurement is a comparative measurement given variations in tools that people use, I was asking about your COAL as that just helps with getting a better idea relatively with respects to your case dimensions compared to mine. That you also use a Hordady comparator, I'm really puzzled why I my CBTO measurement is .057 different than yours for a Berger 185 Jug.
I also load on the long side to help with that increasing case capacity, and I single load mine as well. Though I do have a mag that'll accommodate a cartridge out to a COAL of 2.96
Fair enough. I'll measure the COAL when I get home tonight. I'll post it here. One of the reasons that my CBTO measurement is longer then yours is probably due to the +.170" throat. I also had a great slow node. During barrel break-in I used a 39.0gr charge which showed 1/3moa accuracy. Unfortunately, it was only 2330fps. That won't get you too far down range (at least where I want it to go).
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13x fired Lapua brass neck turned to .014 and annealed after ever firing, Fed GM 210M primers, COAL: 2.859 for 168 SMK's & 2.869 for 175 SMK's
I noticed shooting the 208gr eldm at 2600fps 24in Rock creek 1:11.25 5r 3.055 .010 off with RL17 that they shoot better groups with the Winchester brass vs lapua. With 47.5gr of RL17 in Winchester brass it shoots sub .5 moa 100yd site in but 46.5gr in lapua just won’t group well with both loads at 2600 FPS. When the wind gets bad this 208gr beats every other 308 bullet I have tried. One thing I’m still working on is the bc out of a 24in 1:11.25 at 2600. Berger twist calculator shows that the .690 bc drops to .653 bc with 1.33 stability. JBM calculator shows 1.55 with no BC loss. Where I’m shooting with all the wind shifts it’s not easy to figure out which is correct.
While MV and other numbers can be virtually the same (like barrel time and pressure), you might have a completely different harmonic. This could be due to a difference in how the bullet is being gripped as Winchester brass has thinner walls than Lapua, which one can compensate for to some degree in adjusting the neck tension accordingly. . .
. . . just gotta realize the Winchester brass and Lapua brass are apples and oranges.
I have different sizing dies honed for Winchester brass & lapua then use a mandrel so the neck tension is perfect. If you use a Forster die on Winchester brass a lot of times it won’t even push the necks in, that’s how thin the Winchester brass necks are. Luckily my Redding sizing die pushes the Winchester necks to .304 then I use a mandrel for to make them .306. My Forster die was honed to push lapua necks to .304 & use the same mandrel to get .306. I think it might be the case capacity that might make the pressure up in the lapua with rl17 208gr eld that just doesn’t work as well as the Winchester for this combo. Shooting cfe 46gr with 168gr eld in lapua gets me better results than the Winchester. I’m getting really good results with the Winchester rl17 208gr eldm so I’m not worried about trying to get the lapua too work. I’m more worried the what the bc is out of my 24in 1:11.25 barrel. JBM calculator says it’s 1.55 & that means no BC loss but Berger calculator says I’m 1.33 at .653bc down from .690. So I think I might have to try shooting groups at 600 & 900 yards using .653 bc & .690bc & see which is bestWhile MV and other numbers can be virtually the same (like barrel time and pressure), you might have a completely different harmonic. This could be due to a difference in how the bullet is being gripped as Winchester brass has thinner walls than Lapua, which one can compensate for to some degree in adjusting the neck tension accordingly. . .
. . . just gotta realize the Winchester brass and Lapua brass are apples and oranges.
Yeah, there's only so much you can do with calculations, then one needs to get the see what real world results produce.
I should preface this by saying that I know little to nothing about reloading compared to the vast majority of folks on this forum.
That said, I found a round that my rifle liked and of course it became unavailable so I did what any reasonable person would do. I bought a press, scale, powder, primers, etc. It's bananas how involved this becomes.
Anyways, I managed to cobble up a round that printed decent today. It's a starting point I know but it made me happy that it printed at all.
These were fired brass, 41gr of Shooters World Precision, 168 Match King and Federal 215 magnum primers (the only thing I can get right now) from a 16" barrel bolt gun.
I loaded up some more 41gr to make sure that it wasn't me (it was probably me), 41.5 and 42 for tomorrow. Pretty sure they're all well within spec and possibly a bit low by everything I've found.
That said, I found a round that my rifle liked and of course it became unavailable so I did what any reasonable person would do. I bought a press, scale, powder, primers, etc. It's bananas how involved this becomes.
Anyways, I managed to cobble up a round that printed decent today. It's a starting point I know but it made me happy that it printed at all.
These were fired brass, 41gr of Shooters World Precision, 168 Match King and Federal 215 magnum primers (the only thing I can get right now) from a 16" barrel bolt gun.
I loaded up some more 41gr to make sure that it wasn't me (it was probably me), 41.5 and 42 for tomorrow. Pretty sure they're all well within spec and possibly a bit low by everything I've found.
FWIW, I was able to get about 100 fps more velocity out of my 16" 308 using H4895 vs Shooters World Precision Rifle. I like the price of SWPR but it is a bit slower than H4895 (and Varget) for me.
Good to know, but I can't find H4895 either.
I worked up the precision to 41.5 and 42 over the weekend but the groups seemed to loosen a bit.
I loaded five rounds at 43gr and five at 44gr tonight to try out this weekend but I'm getting a bit skittish of approaching the max load with magnum primers. Shooters world suggests a max load of 45gr with the match king.
This is a very difficult time to get into reloading, it would be awesome if I could get my hands on some normal or bench large rifle primers and maybe a few other types of powder.
this is kinda odd. did you change your "burning rate factor ba"?? mine is saying 0.4700 for reloader 17 i ran the exact numbers you did and i'm getting quite a lower pressure and fps than what you're showing. when i change it to 0.5000 its obviously identical. just weird that i would have a different default than you. not question you, i'm questioning the program.
also. i trim my .308 lapua brass to 2.014 and my h2o case fill is 55.4. so his load may be even hotter than that.
if you dont have one, get yourself a chronograph. i started with the magnettospeed sporter and that thing works great. ive since bought the upgraded V3 bayonet now that i have suppressor's and i started doing more AR platform load development. but if you have a standard barrel the sporter is the way to go in my opinion.
If i would have known the amount of information i would get out of my hand loads by using a chronograph it would have been the first thing i bought after my first press and dies. its much easier to work up a load when you know how fast the are going and how consistent they are.
pre chronograph i would go to the book and start middle of the road and go up .3 watching for pressure signs along the way until i shot a good 5 shot group and thought "cool that's my load".
now, ill shoot 1 round at a coal .010 less than mag length going up in .2 or .3 grains of powder until i get the safe FPS i want. once i get there i start shrinking seating depth to find out how far that bullet likes to jump.
I look back and think of all the powder, bullets and primers i went through trying to find what i thought was a good load and it makes me sad lol.
also i was a big fan of ar-comp and imr4064 when i was shooting 168's. ar comp is hard to come by at the moment but it was very consistent in my gun.
Yes, I did change my burn rate to .5000, which I always do to get something that better represents a burn rate base on my chrono data. I've done this many times and compared chrono data with what other's have posted and often am pretty close to what they got. That's not to say that everyone's powder burns at the same rate as we know that the burn rate for a particular powder most often varies from lot to lot. And I've found in my experience with only a few popular powders that QL's default burn rate tends to be on the low side.
As far as your H2O of 55.4 grs. . . that's pretty much the measurement I get with virgin Lapua brass and with full length sized brass. But, when they're fired, the volume is more and I typically get ~ 55.9 grs. And QL instructions are to use the case volume of fired brass rather than the volume of sized brass. So, I assume there's good reason for this instruction, as if probably has something to do with the way the formulas work.
I'm a big fan of AR-Comp with 168's in my bolt gun . . . as you can see why in my post above on Aug. 25th.
I also like that it doesn't leave much of any copper fowling and I can go longer until I feel I need to clean the barrel.
Spot on, I've been looking for a chronograph for a while but setting one up on a busy range was not something I could wrap my head around.
The magnetospeed seems to solve that problem handily. The only hitch is that my shroud extends too far for it to fit on my barrel.
Found the Wiser Precision chrono mount and ordered one yesterday. I'm going to wait until it comes in to order the magnetospeed.
Went to the range this afternoon, top left was cold barrel 168 match king over 41gr Precision. Top right was the same with 43gr and the middle was 44gr.
Bottom target was my terrible tumbling subs... 168 speer over ten grains of trail boss, they need a ton of work.
I'm pretty happy with the supers at 41gr but the chronograph will definitely help with the subs and dialing in the supers a bit more.
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At 47.2gr of RL15, Im getting 2795fps from a 25" barrel, with 155gr ELD-M, Lapua brass and FGGM primers.
308 brass is notorious for having different volumes...so get sorted first.
Each brand has volume and weight variation. this is why I went creedmoor to alleviate my concerns.
many powders can push faster velocities sacrificing accuracy. in my 308 I settled on 208 AMAX, and cfe223, and about 0.25" off lands. (keltec uses a machine gun reamer). I think you should look at slower powders. But ask questions on caliber and weight. cfe223 is great because it fairly linear despite being over loaded (100% compression).
3031 is a good all around powder but it became unstable when pushing bullets past 168 grains. Same with benchmark. my go to accuracy node with the wild chamber is with 168gr SMK and benchmark. The 208 AMAX/cfe223 is just a wierd quirk of my rifle and I'm unwilling to try it in my 308AR.
The MK168's over 41gr Precision did quite well this weekend and I finally got a clock on them, average was 2286fps.
Here's my best group...
Here's my best group...
If one uses quality brass like Lapua or Peterson where these variations are typically not enough to be much of an issue. For other brass, there can be a lot of variation.
So I’m going to start doing load dev on a AI 16.5” proof carbon barrel in 308. Have some LRP Lapua brass, CCI 200’s, more varget than I can shake a stock at, and 175gr Berger VLD target bullets. I tried searching and didn’t find anything specific on the powder, brass, and bullet combo so I figured I’d ask. What is your go to recipe for 175 VLD’s and varget?
I run 175 smk... they arent as picky with the jump as I found with Berger vlds...
175 smk
Lapua case
43.5gr varget
CCI 200 or BR
Somewhere around 44gr of varget seems to be the a good load for most.... once you find a load work setting depth... if I remember somewhere around 0.010 jump off the lands worked for my vlds. However I stick to smk, i can load to mag length and see no performance issues
175 smk
Lapua case
43.5gr varget
CCI 200 or BR
Somewhere around 44gr of varget seems to be the a good load for most.... once you find a load work setting depth... if I remember somewhere around 0.010 jump off the lands worked for my vlds. However I stick to smk, i can load to mag length and see no performance issues
Every barrel and action are different, but here's my results for a Badger M2008 and 24” Bartlien barrel:
175 gr SMK
45 gr Varget
Lapua brass
large Federal GM primer
0.017" jump at 2.195" AOL to Ogive
2809 ft/sec MV
grouped 1/4 MOA at 200 yards
Good luck and don't forget that each barrel will like or dislike bullets and weights, so try many different bullets and weights...Berger and Hornady both make excellent choices too...
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Hmmm??? Something doesn't sound quite right.
First, 45 grs of Varget is well over max pressure (like around 66,650 psi)
Then, this 45 grs of Varget pushing a 175 SMK out of a 20" barrel is not likely to get to 2700 fps let alone 2800 . . .??? Now, if it were a 26" barrel, then that MV would be just right . . . according to all my own data I've collected along with what QuickLoad calculates.
I wouldn't recommend this load unless one is well experience AND works slowly up to it watching for pressure signs.
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